Hi All,

I've uploaded a few screen-shots taken from a running chameleon. It shows some
of capabilities of the VGA controller.

http://syntiac.com/chameleon.html

For those who don't want to wade through the reference manual (which I also
updated). The idea is this:

You have upto 256 objects (see *) of any size and resolution and bit-depths of
1, 2, 4 or 8 bits/pixel. Think sprites but bigger and with more colors. They can
be positioned freely on the screen and also partially or completely off the
screen. They can act as a viewport into a larger bitmap and support smooth
scrolling in all directions.

Greetz,
Peter Wendrich


* The actual number of objects will be less. This is dependent mostly on the
available memory bandwidth. This limit is reached at around 2000 pixels in 4 bit
(16 colors) on each scanline. Or in big scary numbers: 6 stacked C64 type
screens or about 100 C64 sprites ;-)

Hi,

> Ooooh so it can be used as a FPGA project board as well ? ..

Yes it can load cores directly from a MMC cart. The two things we
have in mind for this are a standalone 1541 drive emulator (for use
with other 8 bit commodore computers) and a C64-in-a-cartridge.

> That'll
> be nice, my little EP1C board is interesting but although it has a
VGA
> connector on it I don't think it can generate a vga signal of the
> proper clock (seem to remmber you need a 25mhz clock and this only
has
> a 20mhz) .. like I said before .. i'm an FPGA newbie :-)

That is what PLLs are for.

> Will the Chameleon have any other I/O ports ? (apart from the
> obligatory clock port that a certain "invididual" crams onto every
> single peice of hardware he has a say in :-) .. or is this getting
> towards feature creep again ? :-)

It will have a IEC serial bus so you can connect a real diskdrive in
standalone mode. The same connector will be used when chameleon
behaves as a diskdrive to connect to a real VC20, C64 etc (or a
second standalone Chameleon ;-). Most likely it will also have a
stereo audio output.

Any other peripherals will need to be connected to the cartridge
connector or clockport. Development of adapter PCBs from cartridge
connector to port X, Y or Z are still topic of discussion within
Individual Computers. A logical one would be something with two
joystick ports on it. No concrete plans though.

>
> On another completely different topic ... what hapened to the A600
> accelerator ? hehehe

This should be done in private email. Please don't abuse this
mailing list. Thanks!

Peter

>
> Regards
>
> Mark

Hi there,

Nah can't say I've ever heard of you ..... ;-)

Ooooh so it can be used as a FPGA project board as well ? .. That'll
be nice, my little EP1C board is interesting but although it has a VGA
connector on it I don't think it can generate a vga signal of the
proper clock (seem to remmber you need a 25mhz clock and this only has
a 20mhz) .. like I said before .. i'm an FPGA newbie :-)

Will the Chameleon have any other I/O ports ? (apart from the
obligatory clock port that a certain "invididual" crams onto every
single peice of hardware he has a say in :-) .. or is this getting
towards feature creep again ? :-)

On another completely different topic ... what hapened to the A600
accelerator ? hehehe

Regards

Mark



--- In chameleon_64@yahoogroups.com, Jens Schoenfeld <jens@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> first of all, happy new year everyone on this
> list. I'm the one who makes the hardware of
> Chameleon, just in case my name is not familiar.
>
> At 21:33 07.01.2009 +0000, Mark wrote:
> >Hi there,
> >
> >Well I'd buy it just for a FPGA on a cart .. so there you have one
> >customer! :-)
>
> Good - then you might also like to hear that the
> cartridge will also work stand-alone (that's why
> it'll have the PS2 keyboard connector).
>
> >So if the 6502 and VIC cores are accessing their own private RAM on
> >the cart, can they get access to the memory space of the real C64 ?
> >Or do they have to page it in via something like a REC ?
>
> The internal C64 memory is completely switched
> off. You can remove it, if you like. The C64's
> VIC reads its data from the Chameleon ram, which
> is the major difference to any accelerator out
> there. While all other accelerators have to slow
> down to poke into the C64 memory, Chameleon does
> not have this "penalty". The one thing where
> Chameleon has to slow down is a write to colour
> ram, this cannot be replaced externally.
>
> >What about peripherals ?  (joysticks, user port devices, devices on
> >the serial bus etc)  Would you have to page the carts RAM down into
> >the the C64 RAM, then have the real 6510 pick up where the 6502 core
> >left off and access the device, copy the data into the C64 RAM and
> >then have the 6502 core take over again and page the data from real
> >RAM back into the cart and process it .... my head hurts now :-)
>
> No need to - normal bus access is still possible,
> so the 6502 inside Chameleon can read/write CIA
> and all other registers as if they're local.
> Other accelerators also don't have problems
> accessing SID, VIC and CIAs, so why would Chameleon have a problem?
>
> And yes, it's truly a fun project. Lots of things
> to learn about a machine that is considered to be "well known" ;-)
>
> ciao,
> --
> Jens Schönfeld
>

Hi,

first of all, happy new year everyone on this
list. I'm the one who makes the hardware of
Chameleon, just in case my name is not familiar.

At 21:33 07.01.2009 +0000, Mark wrote:
>Hi there,
>
>Well I'd buy it just for a FPGA on a cart .. so there you have one
>customer! :-)

Good - then you might also like to hear that the
cartridge will also work stand-alone (that's why
it'll have the PS2 keyboard connector).

>So if the 6502 and VIC cores are accessing their own private RAM on
>the cart, can they get access to the memory space of the real C64 ?
>Or do they have to page it in via something like a REC ?

The internal C64 memory is completely switched
off. You can remove it, if you like. The C64's
VIC reads its data from the Chameleon ram, which
is the major difference to any accelerator out
there. While all other accelerators have to slow
down to poke into the C64 memory, Chameleon does
not have this "penalty". The one thing where
Chameleon has to slow down is a write to colour
ram, this cannot be replaced externally.

>What about peripherals ?  (joysticks, user port devices, devices on
>the serial bus etc)  Would you have to page the carts RAM down into
>the the C64 RAM, then have the real 6510 pick up where the 6502 core
>left off and access the device, copy the data into the C64 RAM and
>then have the 6502 core take over again and page the data from real
>RAM back into the cart and process it .... my head hurts now :-)

No need to - normal bus access is still possible,
so the 6502 inside Chameleon can read/write CIA
and all other registers as if they're local.
Other accelerators also don't have problems
accessing SID, VIC and CIAs, so why would Chameleon have a problem?

And yes, it's truly a fun project. Lots of things
to learn about a machine that is considered to be "well known" ;-)

ciao,
--
Jens Schönfeld

Hi there,

Well I'd buy it just for a FPGA on a cart .. so there you have one
customer! :-)

So if the 6502 and VIC cores are accessing their own private RAM on
the cart, can they get access to the memory space of the real C64 ?
Or do they have to page it in via something like a REC ?

What about peripherals ?  (joysticks, user port devices, devices on
the serial bus etc)  Would you have to page the carts RAM down into
the the C64 RAM, then have the real 6510 pick up where the 6502 core
left off and access the device, copy the data into the C64 RAM and
then have the 6502 core take over again and page the data from real
RAM back into the cart and process it .... my head hurts now :-)

Does sound to be a fun project though :-)

Regards

Mark

Hi,

--- In chameleon_64@yahoogroups.com, "strandedinnz"
<strandedinnz@...> wrote:
>
> I think you can be excused for having a real life :-)  After all
the old C64s and 128s are
> just a fun hobby for us all now.

Since when is programming FPGAs not 'real life'? :-)

>
> So how are you turning off the real VIC and 6502 so yours can take
over ?

The VIC-II can not be turned off. Turning off the CPU (which is a
6510 btw) is easy. Just pull the DMA line low.

>
> Does the 6502 and VIC cores have to access the original memory in
the C64 ?  Or will they
> have there own local RAMthat they'll work with ? .. which I think
is how the SuperCPU does
> it .. has fast RAM on the cart which it can then mirror into
the "slow" RAM of the C64when
> the VIC needs to access it ... i think ...

No. Yes it has 8 Mbyte on my prototype but probably more on the
retail version. You are correct that is how the SuperCPU does it.

Take note that Chameleon is not a SuperCPU look-a-like, not in its
purpose nor its features (the turbo is more lika a bonus). The way
that it works is completely different.

>
> I'm just starting dabbling in the FPGA swimming pool, have a
Altera Cylone board and so
> far can make LEDs flash!!  Wooohooo I'm a VHDL GOD!!! ;-)
> Maybe one day I can do something useful in life :-)
>
> Pity about the no C128 support .. would have been interesting
having a 3 CPU Commodore
> but no matter, maybe one day.

It depends how you count cpu's. Depeding on interpretation of the
word 'cpu', Chameleon already has >3 CPUs ;-)

The problem with the C128 is signal quality. The main PCB of the 128
(especially the D version) is very large. This results in delays in
the signals and degraded waveforms forms on the expansion connector.
And ofcourse the C128 is a beast with feature creep itself.
So this 'maybe one day' is somewhat unlikely, unfortunetly.

>
> Do keep it simple for starters though, to many projects catch
feature creep and end up
> impossible ... hell even just a cartridge with an FPGA attached to
all the right lines would
> be a great start, would let you add or remove whatever
functionality is currently in
> development.

The schematics and pin list will be made public. So the chameleon is
indeed a fpga-on-a-C64-cartridge. I wonder how many people would by
it for that reason however...
Feature creep is a concern, but because of the flash-rom, updates
can be relased later that can easialy be loaded from MMC card and
installed.

Peter

I think you can be excused for having a real life :-)  After all the old C64s
and 128s are
just a fun hobby for us all now.

So how are you turning off the real VIC and 6502 so yours can take over ?

Does the 6502 and VIC cores have to access the original memory in the C64 ?  Or
will they
have there own local RAMthat they'll work with ? .. which I think is how the
SuperCPU does
it .. has fast RAM on the cart which it can then mirror into the "slow" RAM of
the C64when
the VIC needs to access it ... i think ...

I'm just starting dabbling in the FPGA swimming pool, have a Altera Cylone board
and so
far can make LEDs flash!!  Wooohooo I'm a VHDL GOD!!! ;-)
Maybe one day I can do something useful in life :-)

Pity about the no C128 support .. would have been interesting having a 3 CPU
Commodore
but no matter, maybe one day.

Do keep it simple for starters though, to many projects catch feature creep and
end up
impossible ... hell even just a cartridge with an FPGA attached to all the right
lines would
be a great start, would let you add or remove whatever functionality is
currently in
development.

Regards

Mark

Hi,

Let me start by wishin the group a Happy new year!

Yeah sorry about the lack of info updates. I had other hi-prio
projects and activites the last 2 months, so available time for
Chameleon (and C-One) development was limited.

On Chameleon the VGA signal will not be generated from the video
port. That port will stay available to connect a composite monitor
if you wish. The video signal is generated within the cartridge by a
replica VIC-II chip.
So you can have the same C64 screen on both ports at the same time.
In principle it is possible to use the original video output only
and use the VGA for something else (debugger, picture, dual
screen... whatever). Keep in mind though that software will need to
be developed to use that feature and will not be included in the
first firmware release.

We will document all the registers, peeks&pokes and bits allowing
anyone to develop these kind of tools.

There are lots of possibilies on our idea list, but I will not put
those online to prevent disapointment later. There already have been
too  many wild C64 expansion ideas in the past that did not get
delivered (SuperVIC on the C-One). I hope you understand.

Everything that is currently on http://syntiac.com/chameleon.html
will be in the cartridge on release.

Hope that satisfies you Q,
Peter

--- In chameleon_64@yahoogroups.com, "strandedinnz"
<strandedinnz@...> wrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
> So does anyone here have some good info on the Chameleon ?  The
> titbits on the internet makes it sound good :-)
>
> I'm interested in knowing how it gets the VIC output out to VGA,
does
> it take in the video output from the video out port and then
digitise
> it ?  Or does it tap the VIC directly via the bus somehow ?
>
> Regards!
>
> Mark
>

Hi there,

So does anyone here have some good info on the Chameleon ?  The
titbits on the internet makes it sound good :-)

I'm interested in knowing how it gets the VIC output out to VGA, does
it take in the video output from the video out port and then digitise
it ?  Or does it tap the VIC directly via the bus somehow ?

Regards!

Mark