I'm getting more organized on game mode (actually Q2 mode) and should
start coding soon.  Tentative assignments for the all-important
single-key chords are as follows, written for the left hand with index
finger on the right side and pinky on the left, outboard at top. It
won't look right without a constant-spaced font.  What I think you
want is that shooting while going forward is the key for forward plus
the key for shooting, etc.  Call it the additive subchord property.

Any chord which has as a subchord something impossible like left+right
can be used as an administrative function like select next weapon or
bring up a menu.

Now would be the time for useful comments. :-)



----------------------------------------------------------------
forward  000X
		 0000
----------------------------------------------------------------
back  0000
		 000X
----------------------------------------------------------------
left  00X0
		 0000
----------------------------------------------------------------
right  0000
		 00X0
----------------------------------------------------------------
fire  0X00
weapon  0000
----------------------------------------------------------------
turn (instead 0000
of moving) 0X00
----------------------------------------------------------------
up  X000
		 0000
----------------------------------------------------------------
down  0000
		 X000
----------------------------------------------------------------
next  X000
weapon  X000
----------------------------------------------------------------
and thus, for instance,

turn L+move 0XXX
forward+shoot 0X00
----------------------------------------------------------------

Well, nothing's easy is it.  Yahoo stripped out my tabs.  I have put
an easier-to-read version in the files section.

Tony Godshall writes:
  > My own preference is to take something
  > that already fits well in the hand (like a
  > handle) and add switches.

Where on the handle do you add switches?  Peoples' hands vary in
length AND width, and not by a little.

--
--my blog is at    http://blog.russnelson.com   | Software that needs
Crynwr sells support for free software  | PGPok | documentation is software
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-323-1241       | that needs repair.
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  |     Sheepdog          |

> Tony Godshall writes:
>  > My own preference is to take something
>  > that already fits well in the hand (like a
>  > handle) and add switches.
>
>  Where on the handle do you add switches? Peoples' hands vary in
>  length AND width, and not by a little.

Good point indeed.

--
Best Regards.
Please keep in touch.
This is unedited.
P-)

On Friday 02 May 2008, John McKown quoth thusly:
> Well, nothing's easy is it.  Yahoo stripped out my tabs.  I
> have put an easier-to-read version in the files section.

It looked OK in email tho, didn't it Tony? :P

Reply deleted by group monitor.

I see today in the news GTA IV.  Assuming it's for PCs and has default
key bindings, could someone please send them to me?

> Reply deleted by group monitor.

I must bring out the best in people...

Sorry if I was abrasive.

Richard Donkin writes:
  > The other solution I've been thinking about which I know is technically
  > possible, and probably also feasible on a large-scale, is to build an
  > accelerometer into the Chordite and link that to the mouse.

Mmmmmm, maybe not.  Accelerometers have a fairly low signal to noise
ratio.  Obviously it's good enough for Nintendo's wiimote to know that
you're swinging the wiimote, but for fine movements, you notice that
they have the infrared camera on the wiimote.

--
--my blog is at    http://blog.russnelson.com   | Software that needs
Crynwr sells support for free software  | PGPok | documentation is software
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-323-1241       | that needs repair.
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  |     Sheepdog          |

I don't remember but nearly twice what John suggests.  The biggest
problem with them is not the force of the keypress, but instead the
noise.  These keys give nice force feedback but also give lots of
noise feedback, which isn't very good for a keyboard designed to be
stealthy.
-russ

Tony Godshall writes:
  > What's the actuation force?
  >
  > This company seems to make quite a
  > range of switches but you don't specify
  > a model number for the one that's
  > pictured; it doesn't seem to be listed
  > by my usual suppliers (but others from
  > the same company are)
  >
  > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:40 AM, Russ Nelson <nelson@...> wrote:
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > Tony Godshall writes:
  > >  > I'm looking at switches for my chording keyboard...
  > >  > what switches do people like?
  > >
  > >  Marquard switches:
  > >  http://blog.russnelson.com/chordite/chordite.html
  > >
  > >  --
  > >  --my blog is at http://blog.russnelson.com | Software that needs
  > >  Crynwr sells support for free software | PGPok | documentation is software
  > >  521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-323-1241 | that needs repair.
  > >  Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog |
  > >
  >
  >
  >
  > --
  > Best Regards.
  > Please keep in touch.
  > This is unedited.
  > P-)
  >
  > ------------------------------------
  >
  > Yahoo! Groups Links
  >
  >
  >

On Friday 02 May 2008, Tony Godshall quoth thusly:
> On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 9:30 PM, Toby Gray <toby@...>
wrote:
...snip...
> >  It looked OK in email tho, didn't it Tony? :P
>
> you expected tabs to work in email?  were you born yesterday?

errrr.... yes. I actually meant that it REALLY DID look OK. KMail
displayed it perfectly.

Ok, I defer to the experienced one. One day I hope to try it anyway though.

Russ Nelson wrote:
> Mmmmmm, maybe not.  Accelerometers have a fairly low signal to noise
> ratio.  Obviously it's good enough for Nintendo's wiimote to know that
> you're swinging the wiimote, but for fine movements, you notice that
> they have the infrared camera on the wiimote.

An interesting alternative to the use of
manufactured switches presented
itself at maker faire.

A wire was tensioned over a PVC pipe
and held away from it with wire ties
pieces of rubber hose.

On the PVC pipe were tin foil panels.

When a drumstick hit the wire against
the aluminum foil, it conducted from the
wire to the foil.

This could be scaled down to finger
size, with the activation force controled
by the tension of the wire, which could
be controlled with a guitar string tensioner.

For durability, the aluminum foil could
be replaced with copper tubing

It would be quiet but have little tactile
feedback- perhaps a tiny cell phone/
pater vibrator could be added for that.

(IIRC, it was the National Hispanic
University booth)

On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 5:55 PM, Russ Nelson <nelson@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I don't remember but nearly twice what John suggests. The biggest
>  problem with them is not the force of the keypress, but instead the
>  noise. These keys give nice force feedback but also give lots of
>  noise feedback, which isn't very good for a keyboard designed to be
>  stealthy.
>  -russ
>
>
>  Tony Godshall writes:
>  > What's the actuation force?
>  >
>  > This company seems to make quite a
>  > range of switches but you don't specify
>  > a model number for the one that's
>  > pictured; it doesn't seem to be listed
>  > by my usual suppliers (but others from
>  > the same company are)
>  >
>  > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:40 AM, Russ Nelson <nelson@...> wrote:
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > Tony Godshall writes:
>  > > > I'm looking at switches for my chording keyboard...
>  > > > what switches do people like?
>  > >
>  > > Marquard switches:
>  > > http://blog.russnelson.com/chordite/chordite.html
>  > >
>  > > --
>  > > --my blog is at http://blog.russnelson.com | Software that needs
>  > > Crynwr sells support for free software | PGPok | documentation is
> software
>  > > 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-323-1241 | that needs repair.
>  > > Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog |
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > Best Regards.
>  > Please keep in touch.
>  > This is unedited.
>  > P-)
>  >
>  > ------------------------------------
>  >
>  > Yahoo! Groups Links
>  >
>  >
>  >
>



--
Best Regards.
Please keep in touch.
This is unedited.
P-)

At makerfaire I saw a glove that functioned
as a wearable chording keyboard.

A conductive fabric panel could be placed
on a table, on a leg, on an arm, and a glove
with conductive fabric on each finger,
presented as a keypress each finger touch
to the panel.

With only five "keys" it is hard to represent
a full character set.  I spoke to the fellow
at the booth about this and he admitted
that currently they were only doing capital
letters and some symbols.

One would have to go modal like the old
baudot keysets, and add more modes.

They did:

xxxxx - switch to alpha mode
xx-xx - switch to numeric mode

thus one had 2^5 - 2 = 30 characters
per set.

with 4 more modes (all the four-finger combos)
one would have 6 sets of 2^5 - 6 = 26 per set
= 6 * 26 characters = 156 characters total,
which I would think could fully represent a full
US 104-key keyboard.
keyboard

(By the way, Douglas Englebert can be
seen operating one of those 5-key keysets
in his left hand while he operates the mouse
with his right hand in the "Mother Of All Demos"
in which he presented the mouse and the
GUI and hypertext to the world in 1968,
available on youtube in 9 parts)

On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 5:55 PM, Russ Nelson <nelson@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I don't remember but nearly twice what John suggests. The biggest
>  problem with them is not the force of the keypress, but instead the
>  noise. These keys give nice force feedback but also give lots of
>  noise feedback, which isn't very good for a keyboard designed to be
>  stealthy.
>  -russ
>
>
>  Tony Godshall writes:
>  > What's the actuation force?
>  >
>  > This company seems to make quite a
>  > range of switches but you don't specify
>  > a model number for the one that's
>  > pictured; it doesn't seem to be listed
>  > by my usual suppliers (but others from
>  > the same company are)
>  >
>  > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:40 AM, Russ Nelson <nelson@...> wrote:
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > Tony Godshall writes:
>  > > > I'm looking at switches for my chording keyboard...
>  > > > what switches do people like?
>  > >
>  > > Marquard switches:
>  > > http://blog.russnelson.com/chordite/chordite.html
>  > >
>  > > --
>  > > --my blog is at http://blog.russnelson.com | Software that needs
>  > > Crynwr sells support for free software | PGPok | documentation is
> software
>  > > 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-323-1241 | that needs repair.
>  > > Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog |
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > Best Regards.
>  > Please keep in touch.
>  > This is unedited.
>  > P-)
>  >
>  > ------------------------------------
>  >
>  > Yahoo! Groups Links
>  >
>  >
>  >
>



--
Best Regards.
Please keep in touch.
This is unedited.
P-)

This is a single "key" in which the impact
generates enough electricity to power an
RFID-like transmitter...

  www.media.mit.edu/resenv/pubs/papers/UbiComp-Switch-submitted.pdf

An array of these thus becomes a wireless chording keyboard.  Assuming
one can make sure they don't step on each others' signals.  And it would
be good to encrypt the signal.

(I found this link last week but got around to sending it out in response to
getting amped up by the stuff I saw at makerfaire)

On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 5:55 PM, Russ Nelson <nelson@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I don't remember but nearly twice what John suggests. The biggest
>  problem with them is not the force of the keypress, but instead the
>  noise. These keys give nice force feedback but also give lots of
>  noise feedback, which isn't very good for a keyboard designed to be
>  stealthy.
>  -russ
>
>
>  Tony Godshall writes:
>  > What's the actuation force?
>  >
>  > This company seems to make quite a
>  > range of switches but you don't specify
>  > a model number for the one that's
>  > pictured; it doesn't seem to be listed
>  > by my usual suppliers (but others from
>  > the same company are)
>  >
>  > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:40 AM, Russ Nelson <nelson@...> wrote:
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > Tony Godshall writes:
>  > > > I'm looking at switches for my chording keyboard...
>  > > > what switches do people like?
>  > >
>  > > Marquard switches:
>  > > http://blog.russnelson.com/chordite/chordite.html
>  > >
>  > > --
>  > > --my blog is at http://blog.russnelson.com | Software that needs
>  > > Crynwr sells support for free software | PGPok | documentation is
> software
>  > > 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-323-1241 | that needs repair.
>  > > Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog |
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > Best Regards.
>  > Please keep in touch.
>  > This is unedited.
>  > P-)
>  >
>  > ------------------------------------
>  >
>  > Yahoo! Groups Links
>  >
>  >
>  >
>



--
Best Regards.
Please keep in touch.
This is unedited.
P-)

I should mention here the Spiffchorder [1], a joint effort of Greg
Priest-Dorman [2] and Mikkel Holm Olsen . It's a 7-key USB design with
3 for the thumb. It uses an Atmel chip and the Objective Development
USB code.

My only problem with it is Objective Development's license, which tries
to extend GNU-like requirements to whatever hardware and software you
come up with. You are required to document and publish what you do. It
goes on and on about how you have do thus and so and you have to do it
this way and that way. Very bossy. Not for me. I like the public domain.


1 http://www.cs.vassar.edu/people/priestdo/wearables/top
2 http://chorder.cs.vassar.edu/spiffchorder/latest_build

I've got the 3-mode (keyboard, mouse and quake2 controller) code up
and running. I'll post it after I alpha test it a bit more.  Games
differ from regular qwerty keyboard usage in that they use a lot of
(qwerty) chords that don't involve the usual modifiers (shift, alt &
control). Chords like up arrow+c or even a+b+c.  So for games I have
to map chords on the wearable one-hander to qwerty chords.  There are
an awful lot of chords possible on a qwerty and only 255 possible on
an 8-key chorder.  Fortunately only a relative few are needed, at
least for 1st-person shooters.

So far the keys have these functions, assuming as usual a left-hand
unit with index finger on the right, pinky left and up is distal.

up     shoot    left     forward

down   x/r      right    back

where x/r means translate/rotate: pressing x/r and up together makes
you jump; up alone makes you look up. Most if not all the sensible
2-key chords are supported so you can do things like shoot while
side-stepping.  3-key things like shoot while turning left and jumping
are supported but not implemented. There are not quite 70 chords
implemented so far and room for many, many more.  You can tell which
of the 3 modes you're in by looking at the LEDs on the at90usbkey board.

It all seems pretty sweet.  USB is snappier on my computer, at least,
than the PS/2 input.

I've posted the 3-mode executable as Chordite005.hex in the files
section of the newsgroup and the News page of chordite.com.  It comes
up in keyboard mode. The mode toggle is

00XX
0XX0

left hand, distal up, etc.

It's not assembled yet; it lacks the bent-wire braces, switches and
circuitry but you can see how the 5 machined parts fit together.

Remember beauty is as beauty does ;-)

http://chordite.com/img_0944.jpg
http://chordite.com/img_0947.jpg

Here's a note from Marius, who got locked out by Yahoo :-)
================================
Hi John,

Sorry for the huge delay, but I was unable to read the yahoo group
messages for the last two months because of my studies.  (I'm
currently not able to login to my yahoo account because I didn't use
it for 4 months :)

I finished my ohck/chordite about two months ago.  Here are some
pictures of it:

http://home.arcor.de/gorbulas/ohck/ohck_05_brace.jpg
http://home.arcor.de/gorbulas/ohck/ohck_06_fit.jpg
http://home.arcor.de/gorbulas/ohck/ohck_07_dremel.jpg
http://home.arcor.de/gorbulas/ohck/ohck_08_glued.jpg
http://home.arcor.de/gorbulas/ohck/ohck_09_soldered.jpg
http://home.arcor.de/gorbulas/ohck/ohck_10_desktop.jpg

it would be nice if you could forward those pics to the group.
...
The pcb seems to work, but I wasn't able to program the at90usb128 on
it.  I hope I'll be able to do that after my semester exams next month.

Regarding message #378 and molding:
I tried clay first - which was very easy, but the mold crumbled very
fast and I think its dust by now.  The blue wax mold you can see on
"ohck_01_wax.jpg" was curved, and it took a lot of time and patience.
You have to be careful not to cut off too much - which is no problem
with clay.  Plus you must have some kind of talent to guess right
where to curve so you can hold the mold with one hand right.  That can
be a problem, but personally, I will stick to the non-adjustable
chordite because of the closed shell and indestructability.
Tony Godshall wrote: "How about putting some plaster in a plastic bag
and grabbing it?"

I think that's a very fine idea, but I can't imagine something like
that with the right consistency.  (Imagine: soft enough to being fit
to your hand by a simple grab VS hard enough to be finished and used
as base mold)

Regards
Marius

...
> > Tony Godshall wrote: "How about putting some plaster in a plastic bag
> > and grabbing it?"

> I think that's a very fine idea, but I can't imagine something like
> that with the right consistency. (Imagine: soft enough to being fit
> to your hand by a simple grab VS hard enough to be finished and used
> as base mold)

Um, it hardens.  Then you can carve and smooth it a bit, coat it etc
and finally make a negative "proper" mold of the shape you ended up
with.  In college we did face masks and body molds this way.


--
Best Regards.
Please keep in touch.
This is unedited.
P-)

Below and in the photo section of this group are some belated pictures
with the bent-wire braces in place and the switches temporarily wired
to the arms but not yet wired to the circuitry (the at90usbkey board).

	 http://chordite.com/img_0948.jpg
	 http://chordite.com/img_0949.jpg
	 http://chordite.com/img_0950.jpg
	 http://chordite.com/img_0951.jpg
	 http://chordite.com/img_0952.jpg
	 http://chordite.com/img_0953.jpg

I have snipped off the excess lengths on some of the arms.  The unit
as shown fits my hand well.  Eventually I'll glue the switches to the
arms and lose the green wires.  Some lessons learned so far are as
follows.

1  The bodies of these switches are too big. I ended mounting the
outboard pinky switch backwards from my usual practice.

2  It helps to have somewhat larger plastic tubing over the back brace
wire --- larger that is than the smallest that would fit.  The
increased contact area of the larger diameter tubing means the wire
doesn't need to fit the curvature of the hand so exactly.

3  Clearly the bent-wire braces could swing into more compact
positions for storage, e.g., with spring washers and notches in the
end pieces.

4  The thread-cutting screws that adjust the arm positions work well
but they're a little hard to turn. Next time I'll make the holes a
little bigger so the threads don't engage so deeply. One could
theoretically have the holes threaded but it's expensive at emachineshop.

5  I think the E-shaped spacers, which can be inserted and removed
without taking everything apart, maybe are not necessary and the holes
could have been closed (8-shaped) because the best time to adjust the
number of spacers is when you're assembling the unit anyway.

6  I wish I had had more of the excess material machined away (for
free ;-).  The blocky shape with the sharp corners is just too crude.
I think if this gets as far as a kit I'll have those rounded off.
That would save weight too.

> 4 The thread-cutting screws that adjust the arm positions work well
> but they're a little hard to turn. Next time I'll make the holes a
> little bigger so the threads don't engage so deeply. One could
> theoretically have the holes threaded but it's expensive at emachineshop.

Did you use cutting compound?  It should abrade the threads a bit and
make the screws turn easier...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_compound

--
Best Regards.
Please keep in touch.
This is unedited.
P-)

I've updated Chordite005.hex to chordite0051.hex. This fixes a problem
that caused certain combinations of actions in game mode to not work.
========================================

--- In chordite@yahoogroups.com, "John McKown" <john_3000@...> wrote:
>
> I've posted the 3-mode executable as Chordite005.hex in the files
> section of the newsgroup and the News page of chordite.com.  It comes
> up in keyboard mode. The mode toggle is
>
> 00XX
> 0XX0
>
> left hand, distal up, etc.
>

Hi!

A friend and I plan to start a chorded keyboard.
From all the chorded keyboards we saw, the chordite seems to be the
most practical and best planned.
I like the fact that the chordite does not stand on a table but in
the hand, and the fact that the one does not need to type with the
fingers that are grasping the keyboard (thanks for this dogma ;)).

We have some knowledge of software and of hardware, and I believe we
will be able to find the different pieces needed (if not here, then
buying online from abroad).


One of the big questions we have is:
How exactly to start?
I've seen the HTML Instructions for building the chordite, and the
many files in the "Files" section on the mailing list.

But what should be our next steps?
How should I look for proper switches to use? What's the 'model' of
the ones used in the HTML instructions?

After building the structure, the electronics/software part puzzles
us even more.
What's the best known circuit and software and etc?


Thanks for any help :)
    Shmuel

Hi Shmuel,

As it says in the group description, "... The best thing to do is
download the version 2.2 kit at chordite.com and then ignore the parts
about the PS/2 circuitry and code. Instead, use the USB instructions
inherent in note 339 et seq. in this newsgroup ("USB Chordite for
Christmas"). Download the USB firmware source and executable at
chordite.com/news.htm. See notes 187 and 188 in this newsgroup for
updated switch recommendations."

I would add at this point that the bodies of the SS-01GL13-F switches
are a bit large and you might go with one of the other switch
suggestions, especially if you're building for a smallish hand.

Depending on where you are, you can get the board from Digikey or one
of Atmel's other anointed vendors.


=================================
--- In chordite@yahoogroups.com, "spgarzon" <sgershon@...> wrote:
...
> How exactly to start?
> I've seen the HTML Instructions for building the chordite, and the
> many files in the "Files" section on the mailing list.
>
> But what should be our next steps?
> How should I look for proper switches to use? What's the 'model' of
> the ones used in the HTML instructions?
>
> After building the structure, the electronics/software part puzzles
> us even more.
> What's the best known circuit and software and etc?
>
>
> Thanks for any help :)
>    Shmuel
>

Thanks John.

This information really helps me on starting.
I'll first try with the SS-01GL13-F switches, specially because I
don't know other options :)

I'll post our progress to the group.
First steps will start in about two weeks!


--- In chordite@yahoogroups.com, "John McKown" <john_3000@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Shmuel,
>
> As it says in the group description, "... The best thing to do is
> download the version 2.2 kit at chordite.com and then ignore the
parts
> about the PS/2 circuitry and code. Instead, use the USB instructions
> inherent in note 339 et seq. in this newsgroup ("USB Chordite for
> Christmas"). Download the USB firmware source and executable at
> chordite.com/news.htm. See notes 187 and 188 in this newsgroup for
> updated switch recommendations."
>
> I would add at this point that the bodies of the SS-01GL13-F
switches
> are a bit large and you might go with one of the other switch
> suggestions, especially if you're building for a smallish hand.
>
> Depending on where you are, you can get the board from Digikey or
one
> of Atmel's other anointed vendors.
>
>
> =================================
> --- In chordite@yahoogroups.com, "spgarzon" <sgershon@> wrote:
> ...
> > How exactly to start?
> > I've seen the HTML Instructions for building the chordite, and
the
> > many files in the "Files" section on the mailing list.
> >
> > But what should be our next steps?
> > How should I look for proper switches to use? What's the 'model'
of
> > the ones used in the HTML instructions?
> >
> > After building the structure, the electronics/software part
puzzles
> > us even more.
> > What's the best known circuit and software and etc?
> >
> >
> > Thanks for any help :)
> >    Shmuel
> >
>

I really like my new thumb brace.  I mitered the cork with a knife,
super glue and a clamp.  It's very comfortable and I recommend it.

            http://chordite.com/img_0963.jpg   and  ~964