citcon : Messages : 1249-1278 of 1278

I don't think you can beat GoogleTest and GoogleMocks for unit testing tools for c++.

2009/11/27 Pavel Sher <pavel.sher@...>

�

Hello,

Jetbrains TeamCity (http://jetbrains.com/teamcity) has some support for both cppUnit and Boost:

http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/TW/Cpp+Unit+Test+Reporting�.�

If your tests / builds run for a long time you do not have to wait for the whole build to complete to obtain test results - you will get them while build is still running. TeamCity Professional is free of charge:�http://www.jetbrains.com/teamcity/buy/index.jsp

--�

Pavel Sher

Software Developer

JetBrains, Inc.

http://www.jetbrains.com

"Develop with pleasure!"

��

Jerome Lacoste <jerome@...> writes:

> On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Arnaud Bailly <abailly@...> wrote:

>

>>

>>

>> Hello �rgo,

>> We are using Hudson + Maven + CMake + Nexus to manage building a large

>> cross-platform C++ system.

>> - Maven offers structuring of the various projects and dependency

>> management,

>> - Hudson does the CI stuff based on top-level Maven pom,

>> - CMake does the C++ build stuff triggered from maven with the right

>> parameters/properties,

>> - Nexus hosts deployed artifacts and allows sharing of built stuff across

>> all devs.

>>

>

> out of curiosity, what do you use for testing ?

>

If you are talking about unit testing, the answer is cppUnit.

Results are nicely displayed in a Hudson graph thanks to the right magical plugin.

--�

Arnaud Bailly -- OQube

<software engineering>

http://www.oqube.com/

#1277

From: nicholas.waterson@...
Date: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:00 am
Subject: Nicholas Waterson/GBCAM/LMSCentral/Leica is out of the office.

nick_waterson

Offline

I will be out of the office starting  27/11/2009 and will not return until
30/11/2009.

I am currently out of the office I will respond to your message when I
return. If it is urgent please try to contact Darren Chambers or Trevor
Smith



______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
______________________________________________________________________

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)

#1276

From: Pavel Sher <pavel.sher@...>
Date: Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:14 am
Subject: Re[2]: CI tools for C/C++ applications

pavel.sher

Offline

http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/TW/Cpp+Unit+Test+Reporting .

Hello,

Jetbrains TeamCity (http://jetbrains.com/teamcity) has some support for both cppUnit and Boost:

If your tests / builds run for a long time you do not have to wait for the whole build to complete to obtain test results - you will get them while build is still running. TeamCity Professional is free of charge: http://www.jetbrains.com/teamcity/buy/index.jsp

Pavel Sher

Software Developer

JetBrains, Inc.

http://www.jetbrains.com

"Develop with pleasure!"

Jerome Lacoste <jerome@...> writes:

> On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Arnaud Bailly <abailly@...> wrote:

>> Hello �rgo,

>> We are using Hudson + Maven + CMake + Nexus to manage building a large

>> cross-platform C++ system.

>> - Maven offers structuring of the various projects and dependency

>> management,

>> - Hudson does the CI stuff based on top-level Maven pom,

>> - CMake does the C++ build stuff triggered from maven with the right

>> parameters/properties,

>> - Nexus hosts deployed artifacts and allows sharing of built stuff across

>> all devs.

> out of curiosity, what do you use for testing ?

If you are talking about unit testing, the answer is cppUnit.

Results are nicely displayed in a Hudson graph thanks to the right magical plugin.

Arnaud Bailly -- OQube

http://www.oqube.com/

#1275

From: Ivan Moore <ivan.r.moore@...>
Date: Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:09 am
Subject: Re: CI tools for C/C++ applications

ivan_r_moore

Offline

Hi �rgo,

What features/functionality/benefits are you looking for (in an
off-the-shelf tool) that you aren't getting from your custom tool?

Ivan

On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 7:21 AM, yrgo_r <urgo@...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We are looking for tool that would help to manage/build product developed in
C/C++. There is currently fully custom tool but since the functionality is quite
similar to general CI tools we are evaluating some existing tools like
QuickBuild, Hudson.
>
> Does anyone have experience with CI tools used for C/C++ applications?
>
>
> Thanks,
> �rgo
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

#1274

From: Arnaud Bailly <abailly@...>
Date: Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:04 am
Subject: Re: CI tools for C/C++ applications

arnaud.baillly

Offline

Jerome Lacoste <jerome@...> writes:

> On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Arnaud Bailly <abailly@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hello �rgo,
>> We are using Hudson + Maven + CMake + Nexus to manage building a large
>> cross-platform C++ system.
>> - Maven offers structuring of the various projects and dependency
>> management,
>> - Hudson does the CI stuff based on top-level Maven pom,
>> - CMake does the C++ build stuff triggered from maven with the right
>> parameters/properties,
>> - Nexus hosts deployed artifacts and allows sharing of built stuff across
>> all devs.
>>
>
> out of curiosity, what do you use for testing ?
>

If you are talking about unit testing, the answer is cppUnit.
Results are nicely displayed in a Hudson graph thanks to the right magical
plugin.


--
Arnaud Bailly -- OQube
<software engineering>
http://www.oqube.com/

#1273

From: Jerome Lacoste <jerome@...>
Date: Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:17 am
Subject: Re: CI tools for C/C++ applications

jerome_lacoste

Offline

On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Arnaud Bailly <abailly@...> wrote:

�

Hello �rgo,
We are using Hudson + Maven + CMake + Nexus to manage building a large cross-platform C++ system.
- Maven offers structuring of the various projects and dependency management,
- Hudson does the CI stuff based on top-level Maven pom,
- CMake does the C++ build stuff triggered from maven with the right parameters/properties,
- Nexus hosts deployed artifacts and allows sharing of built stuff across all devs.

out of curiosity, what do you use for testing ?

Jerome

#1272

From: Arnaud Bailly <abailly@...>
Date: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:15 pm
Subject: Re: CI tools for C/C++ applications

arnaud.baillly

Offline

Hello �rgo,
We are using Hudson + Maven + CMake + Nexus to manage building a large
cross-platform C++ system.
  - Maven offers structuring of the various projects and dependency management,
  - Hudson does the CI stuff based on top-level Maven pom,
  - CMake does the C++ build stuff triggered from maven with the right
parameters/properties,
  - Nexus hosts deployed artifacts and allows sharing of built stuff across all
devs.

Works like a charm...
Regards,
--
Arnaud Bailly -- OQube
<software engineering>
http://www.oqube.com/

#1271

From: "yrgo_r" <urgo@...>
Date: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:21 am
Subject: CI tools for C/C++ applications

yrgo_r

Offline

Hi,

We are looking for tool that would help to manage/build product developed in
C/C++. There is currently fully custom tool but since the functionality is quite
similar to general CI tools we are evaluating some existing tools like
QuickBuild, Hudson.

Does anyone have experience with CI tools used for C/C++ applications?


Thanks,
�rgo

#1270

From: Lisa Crispin <lisa.crispin@...>
Date: Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:46 pm
Subject: Re: CITCON North America 2010

lisa_crispin...

Offline

It's going to be in Raleigh, NC in mid-April, I think they are firming up the details with the hotel right now.
-- Lisa

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 8:24 AM, mpftz <mpftz@...> wrote:

�

Any word on registration or conference details for the 2010 North America conference? I've been waiting to hear something on the site or list and haven't seen any updates yet.

If there's a registration going on, how can I sign up?

Thanks much!

Melanie Pfautz

--
Lisa Crispin
Co-author with Janet Gregory, _Agile Testing: A Practical Guide for Testers and Agile Teams_ (Addison-Wesley 2009)
http://lisacrispin.com

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)

#1269

From: "mpftz" <mpftz@...>
Date: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:24 pm
Subject: CITCON North America 2010

mpftz

Offline

Any word on registration or conference details for the 2010 North America
conference? I've been waiting to hear something on the site or list and haven't
seen any updates yet.

If there's a registration going on, how can I sign up?

Thanks much!

Melanie Pfautz

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)

#1268

From: Patrick Debois <Patrick.Debois@...>
Date: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:33 pm
Subject: Re: Open spaces conference vs "The Lobby Track"

patrick.debois

Offline

only did it once ;-) but more to come. But I already did a fair share of complete openspaces.

I hesitated a lot between full openspace or not.
In this case the conference was not yet that well established (first time) as it is an emerging topic.

My personal experience for conferences is that if you're new to the subject you tend to go to the speeches.
But after a few times to the same conference, topics are repeating themselves. So you have more value from the openspaces.
So making two tracks is also valuable to some people.

Ben Rady wrote:

�
That sounds like a great model. How many times have you done it?

Ben
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Patrick Debois <Patrick.Debois@jedi.be> wrote:
�
Fredrik Wendt wrote:
Ben wrote:

  
I wonder if there's a halfway point between these two extremes that
more closely aligns the money and the valuable service. Maybe a
conference that is nothing but speaker panels, with equal time (and
plently of food and beverages) set aside for conversation before and
after? Maybe a hackfest or coding dojo style gathering where attendees
pay for the chance to code with the "rock stars" in their industry?
Maybe something where people could get together to actually build
something, and the costs of the "conference" could be covered by
whoever ends up owning what gets build? Or maybe you could own that
thing collectively....that is, buying a ticket to this conference
entitles you to 100 shares in a company that will sell the product(s)
that you create when you attend.

I don't know the answer, but I'm interested in exploring it.
    
  
At www.devopsdays.org we did [speakers (3) in the morning and openspace (3) in the afternoon] x 2days

It had some advantages:
- people are attracted by the speakers and they have something they can refer to when defending them going to the conference.
- instead of 1d of speakers and 1d of openspace this already allowed audience interaction the first day and people getting to know eachother.
�Otherwise they would feel lonely at the end of first day/dinner.
- it also allowed people to lean back in the morning (technical audiences are not at their best in the morning ;-) especially after a long drinking night ;-)
- the speakers on the next morning inspired new talks in the afternoon on the second day.

hope this helps

#1267

From: Ben Rady <benrady@...>
Date: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:22 pm
Subject: Re: Open spaces conference vs "The Lobby Track"

bjrady

Offline

That sounds like a great model. How many times have you done it?

Ben

On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Patrick Debois <Patrick.Debois@...> wrote:

�
Fredrik Wendt wrote:
Ben wrote:

  
I wonder if there's a halfway point between these two extremes that
more closely aligns the money and the valuable service. Maybe a
conference that is nothing but speaker panels, with equal time (and
plently of food and beverages) set aside for conversation before and
after? Maybe a hackfest or coding dojo style gathering where attendees
pay for the chance to code with the "rock stars" in their industry?
Maybe something where people could get together to actually build
something, and the costs of the "conference" could be covered by
whoever ends up owning what gets build? Or maybe you could own that
thing collectively....that is, buying a ticket to this conference
entitles you to 100 shares in a company that will sell the product(s)
that you create when you attend.

I don't know the answer, but I'm interested in exploring it.
    
  
At www.devopsdays.org we did [speakers (3) in the morning and openspace (3) in the afternoon] x 2days

It had some advantages:
- people are attracted by the speakers and they have something they can refer to when defending them going to the conference.
- instead of 1d of speakers and 1d of openspace this already allowed audience interaction the first day and people getting to know eachother.
�Otherwise they would feel lonely at the end of first day/dinner.
- it also allowed people to lean back in the morning (technical audiences are not at their best in the morning ;-) especially after a long drinking night ;-)
- the speakers on the next morning inspired new talks in the afternoon on the second day.

hope this helps

#1266

From: Patrick Debois <Patrick.Debois@...>
Date: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:48 pm
Subject: Re: Open spaces conference vs "The Lobby Track"

patrick.debois

Offline

Fredrik Wendt wrote:

Ben wrote:

I wonder if there's a halfway point between these two extremes that
more closely aligns the money and the valuable service. Maybe a
conference that is nothing but speaker panels, with equal time (and
plently of food and beverages) set aside for conversation before and
after? Maybe a hackfest or coding dojo style gathering where attendees
pay for the chance to code with the "rock stars" in their industry?
Maybe something where people could get together to actually build
something, and the costs of the "conference" could be covered by
whoever ends up owning what gets build? Or maybe you could own that
thing collectively....that is, buying a ticket to this conference
entitles you to 100 shares in a company that will sell the product(s)
that you create when you attend.
I don't know the answer, but I'm interested in exploring it.

At www.devopsdays.org we did [speakers (3) in the morning and openspace (3) in the afternoon] x 2days

It had some advantages:
- people are attracted by the speakers and they have something they can refer to when defending them going to the conference.
- instead of 1d of speakers and 1d of openspace this already allowed audience interaction the first day and people getting to know eachother.
Otherwise they would feel lonely at the end of first day/dinner.
- it also allowed people to lean back in the morning (technical audiences are not at their best in the morning ;-) especially after a long drinking night ;-)
- the speakers on the next morning inspired new talks in the afternoon on the second day.

hope this helps

#1265

From: Fredrik Wendt <fredrik@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:33 am
Subject: Re: Open spaces conference vs "The Lobby Track"

fredrik.wendt

Offline

Ben wrote:

> I wonder if there's a halfway point between these two extremes that
> more closely aligns the money and the valuable service. Maybe a
> conference that is nothing but speaker panels, with equal time (and
> plently of food and beverages) set aside for conversation before and
> after? Maybe a hackfest or coding dojo style gathering where attendees
> pay for the chance to code with the "rock stars" in their industry?
> Maybe something where people could get together to actually build
> something, and the costs of the "conference" could be covered by
> whoever ends up owning what gets build? Or maybe you could own that
> thing collectively....that is, buying a ticket to this conference
> entitles you to 100 shares in a company that will sell the product(s)
> that you create when you attend.
>
> I don't know the answer, but I'm interested in exploring it.

JSConf.eu (Berlin) had one official track - the place where the big
names go. Then they had one parallell track that got filled up during
the last week before the conference started, and half of the slots got
"assigned" during the conference.

smidig in Oslo ("agile conference") had announced lightning talks in the
morning, with speakers promoting their (open space) sessions in the
afternoon. That gives speakers an official slot (so that employers want
to pay for the trip), but the "openness" of open space.

Two ways of trying to reach for the golden "halfway point", I guess.

/ Fredrik

#1264

From: Ben Rady <benrady@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:10 am
Subject: Open spaces conference vs "The Lobby Track"

bjrady

Offline

I've been thinking about what's great and what's broken with open space conferences...

I tend to submit sessions to conferences mostly because I want to go for free. By speaking, not only do I get some (or all) of my travel expenses covered, but I can also justify to my employer why I should get the time off. It's not that I'm cheap, it's just that I can't warrant paying the expenses out my own pocket. If I couldn't go for free, I couldn't go at all (Certainly not multiple times per year.)

I want to go to these conferences, not because of the sessions, but because of the conversations that happen in the hallways and bars while the conference is going on. Fostering these kinds of conversations is what attracts me to CITCON and other open space conferences. But I haven't been since 2008. Why you ask? Because I'm not speaking...because there are no "speakers" at an open space conference.

Now, I plan to go to CITCON North America in April, but I think this is a serious problem with open space conferences. Many of the people that you'd like to have interesting hallway conversations with will only attend if they can somehow subsidize the cost and justify the time. Most conferences generate the money to pay these subsidies by charging for attendance, and to justify that fee they heavily promote the list of sessions and speakers. So these conferences are in a position of raising money by offering a (mostly) useless service, in order to cover the costs of the service that's actually valuable (the hallway conversations). Seems to me that's an imperfection in the market.

I wonder if there's a halfway point between these two extremes that more closely aligns the money and the valuable service. Maybe a conference that is nothing but speaker panels, with equal time (and plently of food and beverages) set aside for conversation before and after? Maybe a hackfest or coding dojo style gathering where attendees pay for the chance to code with the "rock stars" in their industry? Maybe something where people could get together to actually build something, and the costs of the "conference" could be covered by whoever ends up owning what gets build? Or maybe you could own that thing collectively....that is, buying a ticket to this conference entitles you to 100 shares in a company that will sell the product(s) that you create when you attend.

I don't know the answer, but I'm interested in exploring it.

Ben

#1263

From: Eric Lefevre-Ardant <citcon@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:46 am
Subject: Are you sure CITCON Europe 2010 will be in Prague?

elefevre7

Offline

Vote here: http://predictionbook.com/predictions/765
(account creation necessary)

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#1262

From: "Brosnan, Michael" <michael.brosnan@...>
Date: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:44 pm
Subject: FW: [ANN] Hudson Webinar / Oct 14th

michael.brosnan

Offline

I saw this on the Hudson users list and thought you might be interested.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kohsuke Kawaguchi [mailto:Kohsuke.Kawaguchi@...]
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 7:31 PM
To: users@...
Subject: [ANN] Hudson Webinar / Oct 14th

I'll be doing a webinar and Q&A sessions on Hudson next Wednesday.

One of the problems of doing a presentation for the general audience is
that I normally can't spend too much time on the advanced topics. So in
this webinar, I'll be talking about several topics that are oriented
more toward people who have already evaluated Hudson and/or are already
deploying Hudson.

The topics include:

   * Installation upgrade, and back up planning and techniques.
   * Large scale test execution
   * Build promotion and automated component integration
   * Distributed build set up and cluster management

Please register to attend this webinar from
https://dct.sun.com/dct/forms/reg_us_2309_415_0.jsp

Logistics
---------
Date:     October 14th, Wednesday, 2009
Time:     10:00 am PDT / 1:00 pm EDT / 19.00 CET
           (or look up time in your timezone at [1])
Duration: 1 hour

[1]
http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=10&day=14&year=2009&hour=\
10&min=0&sec=0&p1=224
--
Kohsuke Kawaguchi
Sun Microsystems                   http://weblogs.java.net/blog/kohsuke/

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)

#1261

From: Jeffrey Fredrick <jtf@...>
Date: Thu Oct 8, 2009 1:09 am
Subject: Re: Re: CITCON Europe 2010 Location?

frogstar

Online Now

> What is this insanity you strive for?


The "insane" reference is to this:
http://www.anthillpro.com/html/resources/elements-enterprise-ci.html

(And this later addition:
http://www.anthillpro.com/blogs/anthillpro-blog/2009/09/11/enterprise_ci_cultura\
l_maturity.html)

Jtf

On Oct 2, 2009, at 1:30 PM, medellre@... wrote:

What is this insanity you strive for? Number of projects/components
being CI-ed? Projects in parallel? Dependency management? Continuous
deployment? Pipelines? Clouds? Virtualisation? Test automation?
Integration with ALM tools? I can't imagine one single place having to
resolve all those issues at the same time (Google included). But I can
guarantee you can take something from every CITCONer and apply to your
situation. That's why the openspaces format is great... You can
propose a topic of "given I want to accomplish X what is the most
insane solution you can come up with?!". I'd be keen on going to that.

- Rene

#1253

From: medellre@...
Date: Fri Oct 2, 2009 8:30 pm
Subject: Re: do the best come to CITCON?

medellre

Offline

What is this insanity you strive for? Number of projects/components being CI-ed? Projects in parallel? Dependency management? Continuous deployment? Pipelines? Clouds? Virtualisation? Test automation? Integration with ALM tools? I can't imagine one single place having to resolve all those issues at the same time (Google included). But I can guarantee you can take something from every CITCONer and apply to your situation. That's why the openspaces format is great... You can propose a topic of "given I want to accomplish X what is the most insane solution you can come up with?!". I'd be keen on going to that.

- Rene

- Rene

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

From: Douglas Squirrel
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 21:02:10 +0100
To: citcon@yahoogroups.com<citcon@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [citcon] do the best come to CITCON?

Arnaud,

Don't think anyone meant to imply one or another CI setup was "better" (in fact, haven't seen that word in the whole discussion). I was very interested in meeting a particular kind of "insane" CI user in Paris, I didn't happen to do so, and I hope I might get the chance in the future. That doesn't mean I didn't learn a lot or have a great time meeting people who are interesting for a lot of other reasons!

squirrel

From: citcon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:citcon@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Arnaud Bailly
Sent: 02 October 2009 20:47
To: citcon@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [citcon] do the best come to CITCON?

Hello,

I am feeling a bit concerned by what I perceive as being the tone of
this discussion. Feel free to correct me. I have problems with the words
"best", "better", "maturity", "efficiency" (which BTW I have a hard time
distinguishing from effectiveness) when applied to organizations built
by humans for humans.

It may come from the fact that I feel "belittled" as Andrew says by
participating in a conference where only "common people" as Eric said
congregate. But I don't think so.

I come to conferences like that to
listen, talk and get some fresh air. If I wanted to be at the cutting
edge of the technology, I would go to research conferences (this is
where you might find people from big companies like Google...), but then
I would have to talk with 10 people with whom I could have a meaningful
conversation over the topic I am interested in.

Practitioners' conferences like Citcon, XP Days, Agile, Jaoo or QCon,
you name it (only know a few of them) are more about "imitation"
(ie. spreading some practices with minor tweaks) than "innovation"
(inventing some new form). And big companies with some IP or competitive
advantage to protect, or so they think, might not be interested in that
kind of conferences.

I spent a good day in Paris, I met old and new friends, I learnt a
couple of things and caught a couple of ideas, had some good
arguments. And this is reciprocal, I hope I gave out one or thing or
two. We exchange mostly signs, not really pure knowledge, signs on which a
community is built. This has nothing to do with being "good" or "better"
or "best". Compared to what ?

Have a good day,
--
Arnaud Bailly -- OQube
<software engineering>
http://www.oqube.com/

#1252

From: Douglas Squirrel <douglas.squirrel@...>
Date: Fri Oct 2, 2009 8:02 pm
Subject: RE: do the best come to CITCON?

squirreldouglas

Offline

Arnaud,

squirrel

#1251

From: Arnaud Bailly <abailly@...>
Date: Fri Oct 2, 2009 7:46 pm
Subject: Re: do the best come to CITCON?

arnaud.baillly

Offline

Hello,

I am feeling a bit concerned by what I perceive as being the tone of
this discussion. Feel free to correct me. I have problems with the words
"best", "better", "maturity", "efficiency" (which BTW I have a hard time
distinguishing from effectiveness) when applied to organizations built
by humans for humans.

It may come from the fact that I feel "belittled" as Andrew says by
participating in a conference where only "common people" as Eric said
congregate. But I don't think so.

I come to conferences like that to
listen, talk and get some fresh air. If I wanted to be at the cutting
edge of the technology, I would go to research conferences (this is
where you might find people from big companies like Google...), but then
I would have to talk with 10 people with whom I could have a meaningful
conversation over the topic I am interested in.

Practitioners' conferences like Citcon, XP Days, Agile, Jaoo or QCon,
you name it (only know a few of them) are more about "imitation"
(ie. spreading some practices with minor tweaks) than "innovation"
(inventing some new form). And big companies with some IP or competitive
advantage to protect, or so they think, might not be interested in that
kind of conferences.

I spent a good day in Paris, I met old and new friends, I learnt a
couple of things and caught a couple of ideas, had some good
arguments. And this is reciprocal, I hope I gave out one or thing or
two. We exchange mostly signs, not really pure knowledge, signs on which a
community is built. This has nothing to do with being "good" or "better"
or "best". Compared to what ?

Have a good day,
--
Arnaud Bailly -- OQube
<software engineering>
http://www.oqube.com/

#1250

From: Andrew Parker <aparker42@...>
Date: Fri Oct 2, 2009 6:49 pm
Subject: Re: do the best come to CITCON?

aparker42@...

I think I should try to clarify what I said. I don't think expressed myself very well (I definitely don't want to belittle anyone that I have met at CITCON or anywhere else).

A few weeks ago I had gone to a free talk at skills matter where the presenter (can't remember his name) wanted to talk about "right shifting" organizations. Essentially he was wondering about the distribution of the effectiveness/efficiency of organizations. The idea was that the vast majority of organizations are on the left of the scale (less effective and less efficient) and wanted to figure out how to push things to the right. One of the things brought up was that you can only look so far to the right from your current position. This means at least two things: you have a hard time grasping what a highly effective organization looks and operates like and you rarely get to see these organizations (possibly because there is fewer of them, possibly because they don't all publicize what they do).

I've noticed that I am working in an organization that is at the higher end (maybe not the best, but not bad either) of what I could see. I started thinking about that talk and that I really was having a hard time conceiving of what it is like to go up to those insane levels (as shown on the CI maturity chart). This doesn't always come down to the people doing those insane things not being there, but simply that since I haven't experienced it I don't know what it is like. I know that youDevise can get better, but I'm not fully sure what an extremely better youDevise will look like. I can see the next step, and maybe a step after that, but not much more.

CITCON gives me some ideas and some glimpses into what that next level may be, but even if people are there and telling me what I need to know, I may simply not understand because I'm not good enough yet. I've experienced this enough when trying to learn math (damn you co-algebras!) that I'm pretty sure it can happen when trying to learn how a software dev process works.

Andy

On Oct 2, 2009, at 6:45 AM, Douglas Squirrel wrote:

An interesting discussion started on the youDevise blog (https://dev.youdevise.com/YDBlog/index.php?title=insane_continuous_integration_video&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1). I thought CITCONners might like to comment there or on this list.

I said:
....Andy Parker brought us back down with a bump by reminding us that companies who are really slick will never even bother to go to conferences or boast about their amazing skillz in blog posts. The reason is simple: there�s nothing they can learn from anyone else any more, so why bother? The classic example is Google, who apparently know more than anyone else on the planet about running giant server farms, and hardly ever tell anyone how they do it....

Eric Lefevre said:
Not sure I agree with Andrew's aphorism. The best do come to conferences. That's how they became the best in the first place (in the sense that they are passionate by their job and by talking about it), and how they remain good.
If nothing else, they need to maintain a professional network.

And some of those best did come to CITCON. I believe that the stars / common people ratio was reasonably high, compared to other conferences.
If you remember, 2 people from Google came to CITCON Brussels 2 years ago. My understanding is that they are not traveling as much anymore mostly for budget reasons, not because they lost interest.

However, I'd agree that "the best" do not come to the same conferences as the common people (except as speakers, I suppose). The Agile Confs and XP Days probably do not have enough content. The various OpenSpaces, AYE, and eXtreme Coders' Evenings certainly appeal more to them.

I said:
The Google folks were recruiters only and couldn't (or didn't) have much to contribute on continuous integration. I didn't meet anyone at the last few CITCONs who fits in the super-insane column of the maturity matrix (I sure would have liked to).

I'll ask on the CITCON list to see if perhaps these super-CI folks are coming to non-Europe events (e.g. have IMVU ever attended CITCON North America?)

#1249

From: Fabien DUMINY <fabien.duminy@...>
Date: Fri Oct 2, 2009 5:54 pm
Subject: my article about CITCON Europe 2009 Paris

fabien.duminy@...