It's not bad but they missed one of the most common positions on global warming
-- "We don't know." This is very different frnm "I don't know." It means the
science is unsettled, not I am undecided. The science is undecided.. All the
options assume the science is settled, which is nuts.

I like the list of names.

David

Nov 1, 2009 04:31:42 AM, climatechangedebate@yahoogroups.com wrote:

===========================================


http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/10/31/examiner-coms-first-annual-survey-on-globa\
l-warming/

Take the poll.

Rich

The IPCC is made up of countries and they put up the money, which last I knew
was $18 million but may have grown. The USA pays the largest share. Talk to your
national representative. Maybe you can carry the luggage. Or you could become a
volunteer scientist, they are the ones who write the reports. But I don't know
who pays their expenses, the IPCC or their home institutions.

David

Oct 31, 2009 10:01:54 PM, climatechangedebate@yahoogroups.com wrote:

===========================================



I was wondering who paid the expenses for these “pajama parties” and what
the amount of French wines and champagnes, Russian caviar, and other delicacies
is summing up by now.



Someone has an idea about how can I get into the racket?



http://www.ipcc.ch/calendar_of_meetings/calendar_of_meetings.htm




Date

IPCC       meetings in 2009*

Documentation



21-23       January

IPCC co-sponsored Workshop: Future Climate-Change Response       Research:
Learning from the IPCC's Fourth Assessment
Amsterdam,       Netherlands





26       (pm) -

29       January

First Lead Author's Meeting for the Special Report on       Renewable Energy
Sources and Climate Change Mitigation       (SRREN)
Sao Paulo, Brazil

List       of LA
Outline



23-25        February

20th Meeting of the Task Force Bureau
Hayama,       Japan





3-6       March

Joint IPCC-WCRP-IGBP Workshop: New Science Directions and       Activities
Relevant to the IPCC Fifth Assessment       Report

Honolulu,       Hawaii, USA

Meeting       Report



18-20       March

Expert meeting on GHG Metrics
Oslo,       Norway

Meeting       Report




23-26       March

Scoping Meeting on Extreme events and disasters:
Managing       the risks
Oslo, Norway

Scoping       paper
Approved       outline



20       April

39th Session of  the IPCC Bureau
Antalya,       Turkey

Report



21-23       April

30th Session of  the IPCC
Antalya, Turkey





5-7       May

Expert Meeting on Revisiting the Use of Managed Land as a Proxy       for
Estimating National Anthropogenic Emissions and Removals
Sao       Paulo, Brazil





22-26       June

7th EFDB Editorial Board Meeting for the IPCC Database on       Greenhouse Gas
Emission Factors
Santiago, Chile






13-17       July

AR5 Scoping Meeting
Venice, Italy





30-31       August

Expert      Meeting on Modeling Renewable Energies: Coherence between Model
Assumptions and Latest Technological Knowledge
Oslo,       Norway











1-4       September

2nd Lead Author's Meeting for the Special Report on Renewable       Energy
Sources and Climate Change Mitigation (SRREN)
Oslo,       Norway





14-16       September

Joint Expert Meeting of WG I and WG II on Detection and       Attribution
Related to Anthropogenic Climate Change
Geneva, Switzerland











17-18       September

40th  Session of the IPCC Bureau
Geneva,       Switzerland





26-29       October

31st  Session of the IPCC
(Approvals of outline of AR5 by Sessions of  Working       Groups
I, II  & III)
Bali,     Indonesia











  9-12       November

First Lead Authors Meeting for the Special Report on Managing       the Risks of
Extreme Events and Disasters to Advance Climate Change       Adaptation

Approved       outline



16-18       (am) November

21th Session of the TFB
Geneva,       Switzerland













18       (pm) -
20 November

  IPCC Expert Meeting on Software for the 2006 IPCC       Guidelines
Geneva, Switzerland





  TBD

Joint GEO-IPCC Expert Consultation - How GEOSS could serve the       data needs
of the climate impacts and adaptation research communities and       support the
IPCC assessments







Date

2009 Review periods for IPCC Reports

Documentation



  8       June - 6 July

SRREN       - Informal Review





14       December -
8 February 2010

SRREN       - Expert Review







Date

Other major Climate Change events in 2009

Documentation



29       March - 8 April

Seventh session of the AWG-KP and fifth session of the AWG-LCA

Bonn,       Germany





1-12       June

Thirtieth sessions of the UNFCCC Convention subsidiary bodies -       SBSTA and
SBI, sixth session of the AWG-LCA and eighth session of

the AWG-KP
Bonn, Germany





7       - 18 December

Conference of the Parties (COP), Fifteenth session and       Conference of the
Parties serving as the meeting of the Parties to the       Kyoto Protocol (CMP),
Fifth session and sessions of the Subsidiary       Bodies
Copenhagen, Denmark




Eduardo

This leads to an excellent article. Preaching to the choir, but a good
sermon nevertheless.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/berry-e1.1.1.html

         Ian

Should we subsidize power for aluminum that is shipped as ingots to China?

"...Haley Beaudry sits at Columbia Falls Aluminum Co., which long has enjoyed
cheap hydropower because of electricity subsidies.

His plant finally closed on Friday, after years of struggling to turn a profit
amid rising energy prices. The move came just weeks after the last of the
company's rate subsidies expired.

The cheap power ended, in large part, because other ratepayers argued it wasn't
fair, and that it cost jobs in other industries. The courts agreed."

"...Eventually, cutbacks and court cases combined to end the subsidies
altogether. CFAC was left to buy on the open market, and "we just couldn't make
it at those prices," Beaudry said."

"....It's far from raw materials, far from markets, far from ports, aged, with a
payroll easily undermined by newer Chinese smelters."
http://www.missoulian.com/news/local/article_80e88722-c6a0-11de-a2bf-001cc4c002e\
0.html

"Aluminum smelting in North America expanded by 6% last year to 5.64 million
metric tons, but most of that increase was triggered by 13% growth in exports of
mostly primary ingot destined for fabrication elsewhere "
http://www.purchasing.com/article/222897-U_S_aluminum_demand_slipped_last_year_a\
nd_may_continue_sliding_in_2008.php


Bob
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Ian L. McQueen" <imcqueen@...>
>
>     This leads to an excellent article. Preaching to the choir, but a good
> sermon nevertheless.
> http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/berry-e1.1.1.html
>
>         Ian
>

Gday David,

I just want to know which of these blokes you think is nuts; Lew Rockwell or Ed
Berry?  Or maybe you consider both of them nuts?  Please expand because I
couldnt pick what made you respond as you did,

Regards,

Frank

David-

     Remember the old saw about a stopped clock being right twice a day? We
may disagree with the politics or other views of any particular source, but
they can be correct on the one topic of climate. Here in Canada I can
instantly think of the National Post newspaper and the on-line Canada Free
Press. Both of them are right-wing in their viewpoint and there is much that
I disagree with. But I am happy that they are realists on climate.
     I believe that the same is true of many of the think tanks in the USA.

     So, no, I haven't been to the guy's website. I might disagree with
everything on it. But to condemn him 100% because of some of his views
skates awfully close to the ad hominism that we accuse the AGWers of.

     Tell me, what did you think of that article? Just the article. Can it be
criticized on factual grounds? To me, that is a large criterion.

         Ian

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Wojick" <dwojick@...>
To: <climatechangedebate@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: [climatechangedebate] Switching off the lights




You like this guy? I think he is nuts. Have you been to his website?

David


On Nov 1, 2009, Ian L. McQueen <imcqueen@...> wrote:

     This leads to an excellent article. Preaching to the choir, but a good
   sermon nevertheless.
   http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/berry-e1.1.1.html

   Ian









--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.44/2475 - Release Date: 11/01/09
19:39:00

Here's another entry in Dr. Spencer's blog.  Good discussion of
concensus, and of forcings and feedbacks.

http://www.drroyspencer.com/

----- Original Message -----

From: David Wojick

To: climatechangedebate@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 8:48 AM

Subject: Re: [climatechangedebate] Switching off the lights

 

You like this guy? I think he is nuts. Have you been to his website?

David 

On Nov 1, 2009, Ian L. McQueen <imcqueen@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:

 

This leads to an excellent article. Preaching to the choir, but a good
sermon nevertheless.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/berry-e1.1.1.html

Ian

Far from being any kind of victory for the environment or the human
communities impacted the most by climate change, the US government�s
legacy of involvement is comitragic: it dismembers and plunders global
climate policy under Clinton, when the world was willing to do just
about anything to get the US involved; it abandons it entirely under
Bush, who went so far as to compel US institutions under its control to
deny that global warming existed at all; and now it seemingly �comes to
its senses� under Obama, except what it is returning to isn�t a climate
policy that has recovered or evolved from the nonsensical free-market
wreck left for dead during the Clinton era, but instead it is poised to
enter a world of corruption, conflicted interests, and green hucksterism
already pioneered by companies in the United Kingdom, Japan, the
Netherlands, France, Germany, etc., to name a few of the more prominent
�investor� nations in the �clean development� boondoggles spawned by Kyoto.

Full article at http://links.org.au/node/1330

Subscribe free to Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal at
http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=343373

You can also follow Links on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LinksSocialism

----- Original Message -----

From: bobmagi@...

To: climatechangedebate@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:01 PM

Subject: Re: [climatechangedebate] Switching off the lights

 

Should we subsidize power for aluminum that is shipped as ingots to China?

"...Haley Beaudry sits at Columbia Falls Aluminum Co., which long has enjoyed cheap hydropower because of electricity subsidies.

His plant finally closed on Friday, after years of struggling to turn a profit amid rising energy prices. The move came just weeks after the last of the company's rate subsidies expired.

The cheap power ended, in large part, because other ratepayers argued it wasn't fair, and that it cost jobs in other industries. The courts agreed."

"...Eventually, cutbacks and court cases combined to end the subsidies altogether. CFAC was left to buy on the open market, and "we just couldn't make it at those prices," Beaudry said."

"....It's far from raw materials, far from markets, far from ports, aged, with a payroll easily undermined by newer Chinese smelters."
http://www.missoulian.com/news/local/article_80e88722-c6a0-11de-a2bf-001cc4c002e0.html

"Aluminum smelting in North America expanded by 6% last year to 5.64 million metric tons, but most of that increase was triggered by 13% growth in exports of mostly primary ingot destined for fabrication elsewhere "
http://www.purchasing.com/article/222897-U_S_aluminum_demand_slipped_last_year_and_may_continue_sliding_in_2008.php

Bob
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Ian L. McQueen" <imcqueen@nbnet.nb.ca>
>
> This leads to an excellent article. Preaching to the choir, but a good
> sermon nevertheless.
> http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/berry-e1.1.1.html
>
> Ian
>

"Unite to combat climate change" is the slogan used by the United Nations
Environment Programme to promote the United Nations campaign to support the call
for a definitive agreement at the Copenhagen meeting.

Combating climate change is a much broader goal than combating global warming.
Climate change isn't necessarily global, and combating it isn't specifically
aimed against warming, or even against changes in temperature.

Apart from how this could possibly be achieved, one should first ask if it is a
desirable goal. For instance, would anyone object if some geo-engineer found a
way to bring more rainfall to the deserts of the world? On that score alone the
slogan is ill chosen.

But perhaps what is intended is to combat both global warming and global
cooling. If this is the idea, I would like to know how the UNEP proposes to
combat global cooling if that should become a serious threat.

David Fairthorne
Thornhill ON Canada.

----- Original Message -----

From: david.fairthorne@...

To: climatechangedebate@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 2:11 AM

Subject: [climatechangedebate] "Unite to combat climate change"

 

"Unite to combat climate change" is the slogan used by the United Nations Environment Programme to promote the United Nations campaign to support the call for a definitive agreement at the Copenhagen meeting.

Combating climate change is a much broader goal than combating global warming. Climate change isn't necessarily global, and combating it isn't specifically aimed against warming, or even against changes in temperature.

Apart from how this could possibly be achieved, one should first ask if it is a desirable goal. For instance, would anyone object if some geo-engineer found a way to bring more rainfall to the deserts of the world? On that score alone the slogan is ill chosen.

But perhaps what is intended is to combat both global warming and global cooling. If this is the idea, I would like to know how the UNEP proposes to combat global cooling if that should become a serious threat.

David Fairthorne
Thornhill ON Canada.

David-

     Maybe the plan is to issue a personal thermostat to everyone on
earth.....

         Ian

----- Original Message -----
From: <david.fairthorne@...>
To: <climatechangedebate@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 1:11 AM
Subject: [climatechangedebate] "Unite to combat climate change"


"Unite to combat climate change" is the slogan used by the United Nations
Environment Programme to promote the United Nations campaign to support the
call for a definitive agreement at the Copenhagen meeting.

Combating climate change is a much broader goal than combating global
warming. Climate change isn't necessarily global, and combating it isn't
specifically aimed against warming, or even against changes in temperature.

Apart from how this could possibly be achieved, one should first ask if it
is a desirable goal. For instance, would anyone object if some geo-engineer
found a way to bring more rainfall to the deserts of the world? On that
score alone the slogan is ill chosen.

But perhaps what is intended is to combat both global warming and global
cooling. If this is the idea, I would like to know how the UNEP proposes to
combat global cooling if that should become a serious threat.

David Fairthorne
Thornhill ON Canada.







------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.46/2477 - Release Date: 11/02/09
19:39:00

That source has quite bad editing.

Two architects have come up with a design for the Pedestrian & Cycle bridge over
the Segunda Circular Highway in Lisbon.

It's part of an international design competition and there were 64 different
proposals, this is just one.

http://www.experimentadesign.pt/2009/_download/EXD09_BRIDGE_FAQ_EN.pdf

This design didn't even get honerable mention.

The winning design was by: Telmo Cruz and Maximina Almeida

http://www.experimentadesign.pt/2009/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/img_9793_w-\
400x266.jpg

So, clearly not only does this bridge not exist, it's not likely to be built,
nor is there any mention fo the cost the lighting system adds to the bridge.

http://www.designboom.com/weblog/cat/8/view/7974/tiago-barros-jorge-pereira-cros\
s-wind-bridge.html

What IS funny is that Tiago-barros DID get a special mention prize for THIS
"bridge" design.

http://www.bustler.net/index.php/article/high-speed_car_ramp_-_the_outside-the-b\
ox_cycling_bridge_for_lisbon/

Which is a NON Bridge, because it makes the cars JUMP over the pedestrians.

Fun Fun

Arthur



--- In climatechangedebate@yahoogroups.com, "RUI MOURA" <rui.g.moura@...> wrote:
>
> Is this a joke? I don't know where exits a cross-wind bridge, in Lisbon.
>
>
>
> Rui G. Moura
>
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> De: climatechangedebate@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:climatechangedebate@yahoogroups.com] Em nome de jengsett
> Enviada: ter�a-feira, 3 de Novembro de 2009 04:55
> Para: climatechangedebate@yahoogroups.com
> Assunto: [climatechangedebate] The Cross-Wind Bridge Produce Electricity By
> Self
>
>
>
>
>
> A creative idea can occur in any form in the search for alternative energy
> sources that eco friendly.Like about a successful bridge built by the bridge
> designer Tiago Barros and Jorge Pereira. The brigde called Cross-Wind
> Bridge, in Lisbon will light up the brigde in the night by itself.Read more
> at http://earthalternate.blogspot.com/
>

I believe the guy behind the site is Japanese, hence the peculiarities
of English. Can't blame him for that.

     About this scheme and dancefloors that generate electricity, work has to
be performed to generate electricity. Mere pressure will not do the job.
Anyone walking or dancing on one of these structures would have to do extra
work over and above the mere act of walking or dancing. I doubt that the
enthusiasts are aware of this.

         Ian

----- Original Message -----
From: "ardoucette" <adoucette@...>
To: <climatechangedebate@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 10:37 AM
Subject: [climatechangedebate] Re: The Cross-Wind Bridge Produce Electricity
By Self


That source has quite bad editing.

Two architects have come up with a design for the Pedestrian & Cycle bridge
over the Segunda Circular Highway in Lisbon.

It's part of an international design competition and there were 64 different
proposals, this is just one.

http://www.experimentadesign.pt/2009/_download/EXD09_BRIDGE_FAQ_EN.pdf

This design didn't even get honerable mention.

The winning design was by: Telmo Cruz and Maximina Almeida

http://www.experimentadesign.pt/2009/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/img_9793_w-\
400x266.jpg

So, clearly not only does this bridge not exist, it's not likely to be
built, nor is there any mention fo the cost the lighting system adds to the
bridge.

http://www.designboom.com/weblog/cat/8/view/7974/tiago-barros-jorge-pereira-cros\
s-wind-bridge.html

What IS funny is that Tiago-barros DID get a special mention prize for THIS
"bridge" design.

http://www.bustler.net/index.php/article/high-speed_car_ramp_-_the_outside-the-b\
ox_cycling_bridge_for_lisbon/

Which is a NON Bridge, because it makes the cars JUMP over the pedestrians.

Fun Fun

Arthur



--- In climatechangedebate@yahoogroups.com, "RUI MOURA" <rui.g.moura@...>
wrote:
>
> Is this a joke? I don't know where exits a cross-wind bridge, in Lisbon.
>
>
>
> Rui G. Moura
>
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> De: climatechangedebate@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:climatechangedebate@yahoogroups.com] Em nome de jengsett
> Enviada: ter�a-feira, 3 de Novembro de 2009 04:55
> Para: climatechangedebate@yahoogroups.com
> Assunto: [climatechangedebate] The Cross-Wind Bridge Produce Electricity
> By
> Self
>
>
>
>
>
> A creative idea can occur in any form in the search for alternative energy
> sources that eco friendly.Like about a successful bridge built by the
> bridge
> designer Tiago Barros and Jorge Pereira. The brigde called Cross-Wind
> Bridge, in Lisbon will light up the brigde in the night by itself.Read
> more
> at http://earthalternate.blogspot.com/
>

Today's Bad astronomy blog posting has an interesting article on cosmic
rays. Probably more than you want to know!
    http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BadAstronomyBlog/~3/cGh_Y2j7F6I/

         Ian

I came across this in the "Social Studies" section of miscellanea in the
Oct 29 Globe and Mail. While it is about political activists, much of the
article appears to apply to climate / environmental activists.



         Ian



HAPPY PROTESTERS

"Activists are dissatisfied with the drift of the times and outraged at the
misdeeds of their, ideological enemies," Drake Bennett writes in The Boston
Globe. "But they are also, it turns out, enjoying their lives more than the
rest of us. At least if recent research is to be believed, political
activism, no matter the cause, seems to make people happy - even if they
don't win an election or triumph in a ballot initiative. Psychologists
curious about what fuels human happiness have looked at political engagement
and political activism, and they've found that it provides people with a
sense of empowerment, of community, of freedom and of transcendence.
Political activists, in other words, are all happy warriors."