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#16707 From: Ralf Kneuper <ralf@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:17 am
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group
rkneuper
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Jeff,

I fully agree with the approach you are describing but I see one
important difference to what Murali wrote: you train practitioners
as part of process design and deployment, while Murali was talking
about preparing the interviewees for the appraisal.

Best regards
Ralf

Jeffrey Dalton schrieb:
>
>
> Ralf,
>
> I'm sorry, but I disagree.
>
> Clearly, "coaching" them on the "answers," especially if they are not
> actually using the process, "borders on trying to cheat" but I don't
> think that is what Murali is saying.
>
> As part of process design and deployment for some clients (and NOT part
> of preparing for an appraisal) I often engage groups of practioners in a
> game of "20 questions" related to the process.
>
> I ask them questions like "so what happens when the customer asks for a
> change to the requirements" and I elicit answers from the group to
> descibe the process they use for managing this.  I've found this is a
> powerful teaching tool that helps them understand the full breadth and
> depth of their responsibility.
> In this way, they learn to articulate the process, are able to
> understand it themselves, and most importantly, are able to evangalize
> it to their peers.
>
> It works, is useful, and leads to greater institutionalizatio n....the
> very essence of CMMI and the purported purpose of SCAMPI appraisals.
>
> So, I don't see it as "cheating" at all...it's learning.
>
> Jeff
>
> --- On *Tue, 11/17/09, Ralf Kneuper /<ralf@kneuper. de>/* wrote:
>
>
>     From: Ralf Kneuper <ralf@kneuper. de>
>     Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment
>     Question For FAR Group
>     To: cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
>     Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 10:12 AM
>
>
>     Hi Murali,
>
>     Sorry but I have to disagree.
>
>     For developers etc there is no need to prepare for the interviews,
>     and it is not helpful to tell them in advance why they are doing their
>     work the way they do if they do not know anyhow.
>     Either they need to know this for their day-to-day work. In this case,
>     teaching them for the appraisal closely borders on trying to cheat -
>     and there is a certain probability that the lead appraiser will notice
>     and react accordingly.
>     Or the developers do not need to have such background for their
>     day-to-day work. In this case, teaching them for the appraisal is
>     a waste of time and resources.
>
>     What I usually tell interviewees (as part of the kickoff presentation)
>     is that the questions will be about their day-to-day work, and they
>     will usually know this anyhow, without preparation. Of course, they
>     will not usually be able to fluently describe the complete process,
>     but that is not a problem as long as they know their part in it.
>
>     Best regards
>     Ralf
>
>     murali_chemuturi@ hotmail.com
>    
<http://us.mc2.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=murali_chemuturi%40hotmail.com>
>     schrieb:
>     >
>     >
>     > I would like to add why this query has cropped up originally.
>     >
>     > Many technical people, while being very good at their work, often fail
>     > to articulate their assignment very well, especially in an interview
>     > where the stakes are high and the management is watching closely. They
>     > would like to articulate their assignment while at the same time, take
>     > care of organizational interests.
>     >
>     > Second, for them this appraisal is of second priority. As soon as the
>     > interview is over, they need to get back to delivering software to
>     > clients. They would not prepare well on their own. The primary
>     > responsibility to steer the organization thru SCAMPI often rests with
>     > the SEPG or quality group.
>     >
>     > Now how to prepare the interviewees - prepare them to articulate their
>     > work well. Not just what they do mechanically but why they are
>     doing it
>     > and how they are doing it.
>     >
>     > Who is best suited to do this - organizational SEPG / Quality or an
>     > outside consultant. LA helping the people to articulate well is
>     like the
>     > examiner leaking the paper in advance. And they may not do this. In my
>     > experience, they did not do this preparation. They may advise the
>     > organizational interface though.
>     >
>     > Best wishes
>     > Murali Chemuturi
>     > www.chemuturi. com <http://www.chemutur i.com
>     <http://www.chemuturi.com/>>
>     > 91-40-27220771
>     > 91-0-98850-19461
>     > USA - 347-394-3138
>     >
>     > *From:* Jeff Dalton - Broadsword <mailto:jeff@Broadswordsolu
>     tions.com
>    
<http://us.mc2.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jeff%40Broadswordsolutions.com>>
>     > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:04 AM
>     > *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
>     > <mailto:cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
>    
<http://us.mc2.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cmmi_process_improvement%40yahoogrou\
ps.com>>
>     > *Subject:* RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment
>     Question
>     > For FAR Group
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Hmmmmm. While I ALMOST always agree with Pat, I’ll have to challenge,
>     > clarify, or question his response.
>     >
>     > Merely placing “how do you…” in front of each practice may not get
you
>     > there. Processes are very localized – local words, local procedures,
>     > local language. In addition local process rarely has a 1:1
>     relationship
>     > with the model and it’s up to the LA/ATMs to make the connections. In
>     > my experience, most people who read the practices have no idea
>     what the
>     > model is asking for – the model was authored by a committee so the
>     > language tends to be specific to the knowledge base of that group
>     – not
>     > the local company planning on having the appraisal.
>     >
>     > I WOULD agree that if you place “how do you…” + [how you
>     implemented one
>     > or more practices in the model] then it could work.
>     >
>     > Warm Regards,
>     >
>     > Jeff
>     >
>     > Jeff Dalton, President and CEO
>     >
>     > Broadsword
>     >
>     > Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
>     >
>     > CMMI Instructor, SCAMPI Team Leader Observer
>     >
>     > 248.341.3367 (office)
>     >
>     > 248.709.4775 (cell)
>     >
>     > 248.341.3672 (fax)
>     >
>     > broadswordlogo. tif
>     >
>     > Visit our website at http://www.broadswo <http://www.broadswo/>
>     rdsolutions. com
>     > <http://www.broadswo rdsolutions. com
>     <http://www.broadswordsolutions.com/>>
>     >
>     > Visit Jeff's blog at: http://www.asktheCM <http://www.askthecm/>
>     MIAppraiser. com
>     > <http://asktheCMMIAp praiser.blogspot .com
>     <http://askthecmmiappraiser.blogspot.com/>>
>     >
>     > *From:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:cmmi_
>     > process_improvem ent@yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick OToole
>     > *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 6:23 AM
>     > *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
>     > *Subject:* Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment
>     Question
>     > For FAR Group
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > 
>     >
>     > Umesh,
>     >
>     > Just put the words, "Could you please tell us how you you..." in front
>     > of each practice and you'll have a pretty complete questionnaire.
>     >
>     > The other thing that I would HIGHLY recommend is that you don't START
>     > with a SCAMPI A. Conduct a Class B appraisal first, and have some of
>     > the folks go through the Class B interviews to get comfortable
>     with the
>     > process.
>     >
>     > It is not a test. The appraisal team is just trying to understand how
>     > the work is performed on the projects. It should be more of a
>     > "dialogue" than an "interview."
>     >
>     > Hope this helps,
>     >
>     > Pat
>     >
>     > ----- Original Message -----
>     >
>     > *From:* umesh koli <mailto:umesh.koli@yahoo. co.in
>     <http://us.mc2.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=umesh.koli%40yahoo.co.in>>
>     >
>     > *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
>     > <mailto:cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
>    
<http://us.mc2.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cmmi_process_improvement%40yahoogrou\
ps.com>>
>     >
>     > *Cc:* umesh <mailto:koli.umesh@gmail. com
>     <http://us.mc2.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=koli.umesh%40gmail.com>>
>     >
>     > *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 1:05 AM
>     >
>     > *Subject:* [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
>     > For FAR Group
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Hi All,
>     >
>     > Can any one share the Questionnaires fro SCAMPI - Appraisal, for
>     > ML-3 , Currently my Organisation is going for SCAMPI -A and i want
>     > to trained the Team who will be interviewed by ATM, As this is
>     > first experience for them to face SCAMPI - A.
>     >
>     > I looking for some question based on Process Area, so Team (FAR
>     > Group Member )will prepare them to answer.
>     >
>     > I search on Google but not able to find :(
>     >
>     > Please help me..........
>     >
>     > Regards
>     >
>     > Umesh koli
>     >
>     > SQA Lead
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > From cricket scores to your friends. Try the Yahoo! India Homepage!
>     > <http://in.rd. yahoo.com/ tagline_metro_ 4/*http:/ in.yahoo.
>     com/trynew
>     <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_metro_4/*http:/in.yahoo.com/trynew>>
>     >
>     >
>
>     --
>
>     Dr. Ralf Kneuper
>     Beratung fuer Softwarequalitaetsm anagement und Prozessverbesserung
>     SEI-certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC
>     iNTACS-certified ISO/IEC 15504 Principal Assessor
>
>     Philipp-Roeth- Weg 14 ralf@kneuper. de
>     <http://us.mc2.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ralf%40kneuper.de>
>     D-64295 Darmstadt www.kneuper. de
>     Germany
>     Tel. +49-(0)173-3432005
>
>     PGP Public Key and Fingerprint: see www.kneuper. de/Kontakt/
>     pgp-key.html
>
>

- --

Dr. Ralf Kneuper
Beratung fuer Softwarequalitaetsmanagement und Prozessverbesserung
SEI-certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC
iNTACS-certified ISO/IEC 15504 Principal Assessor

Philipp-Roeth-Weg 14        ralf@...
D-64295 Darmstadt           www.kneuper.de
Germany
Tel. +49-(0)173-3432005

PGP Public Key and Fingerprint: see www.kneuper.de/Kontakt/pgp-key.html
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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#16708 From: Ralf Kneuper <ralf@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:41 am
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group
rkneuper
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Saravanan,

Thanks for your mail which helps me to clarify what I stated in my
previous mail:
> *For developers etc there is no need to prepare for the interviews, and
> it is not helpful to tell them in advance why they are doing their work
> the way they do if they do not know anyhow.
I have to admit that this was badly stated and easy to misunderstand:
of course you are
right that one should tell developers why they do their work the way
they do. But this should be done as part of process deployment,
independent of an appraisal.
What I object to is such training specific for the appraisal, which is
what the original question was about.

I admit that I probably expressed my previous mail somewhat too strong
and some revision in preparation for the appraisal is acceptable, maybe
even useful. Let me just state that one has to be careful about the
type of training one does in appraisal preparation: if it is
process- or work.oriented and a revision of earlier training - fine.
If it is interview question-oriented and telling interviewess what
answer to give to a certain question (as I know is not unusual in
preparation for an ISO 9001 audit) then I get seriously worried.

Best regards
Ralf

Saravanan Padmanaban schrieb:
>
>
> Hi Ralf,
>
> Let me explicitly declare that I am neutral and trying to get answers
> for few questions that I thought off - even though I had 'n' number of
> questions rising, I had just restricted myself to few.
>
>
> *For developers etc there is no need to prepare for the interviews, and
> it is not helpful to tell them in advance why they are doing their work
> the way they do if they do not know anyhow. - *If this is true, should I
> infer that the process implementation had not their effect on the way in
> which the work is being done? If yes, I guess, the organization has
> already got strong process foundation laid. If not, there has to be some
> way of communication - either formal or informal which is essentially
> for any member to understand how the work has to be delivered.  Am I
> right in my understanding?
>
>
> *Either they need to know this for their day-to-day work. In this case,
> teaching them for the appraisal closely borders on trying to cheat - and
> there is a certain probability that the lead appraiser will notice and
> react accordingly. *Yes, I agree to this on one perspective. But, from
> the other perspective - based on my earlier statement, I would not think
> this a cheating - rather it is reinforcing / refreshing the member
> knowledge with the defined processes. Is it agreeable? Just an analogy I
> thought off, ( may be silly and wrong ;-)  those days really worried me
> ;-) ) ... during our school days, we would have listened in the classes,
> done our assignments etc.. etc.. but still, during the examination, we
> would still revise what we learnt and did.  /( Let me put it straight
> ... I agree CMMI appraisal is NOT an examination .... but, just for the
> sake of understanding )  /
> * / / *
>
> *Of course, they will not usually be able to fluently describe the
> complete process, but that is not a problem as long as they know their
> part in it - *Agreed, but still, I am wondering, what will be value
> addition to the member with such kind of process implementation. Could
> you throw some light?
> *
> *
>
>  Regards,
> Saravanan
>
>
>
>
>
> To: cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> From: ralf@kneuper. de
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:12:18 +0100
> Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
> Hi Murali,
>
> Sorry but I have to disagree.
>
> For developers etc there is no need to prepare for the interviews,
> and it is not helpful to tell them in advance why they are doing their
> work the way they do if they do not know anyhow.
> Either they need to know this for their day-to-day work. In this case,
> teaching them for the appraisal closely borders on trying to cheat -
> and there is a certain probability that the lead appraiser will notice
> and react accordingly.
> Or the developers do not need to have such background for their
> day-to-day work. In this case, teaching them for the appraisal is
> a waste of time and resources.
>
> What I usually tell interviewees (as part of the kickoff presentation)
> is that the questions will be about their day-to-day work, and they
> will usually know this anyhow, without preparation. Of course, they
> will not usually be able to fluently describe the complete process,
> but that is not a problem as long as they know their part in it.
>
> Best regards
> Ralf
>
> murali_chemuturi@ hotmail.com <mailto:murali_chemuturi@...> schrieb:
>>
>>
>> I would like to add why this query has cropped up originally.
>>
>> Many technical people, while being very good at their work, often fail
>> to articulate their assignment very well, especially in an interview
>> where the stakes are high and the management is watching closely. They
>> would like to articulate their assignment while at the same time, take
>> care of organizational interests.
>>
>> Second, for them this appraisal is of second priority. As soon as the
>> interview is over, they need to get back to delivering software to
>> clients. They would not prepare well on their own. The primary
>> responsibility to steer the organization thru SCAMPI often rests with
>> the SEPG or quality group.
>>
>> Now how to prepare the interviewees - prepare them to articulate their
>> work well. Not just what they do mechanically but why they are doing it
>> and how they are doing it.
>>
>> Who is best suited to do this - organizational SEPG / Quality or an
>> outside consultant. LA helping the people to articulate well is like the
>> examiner leaking the paper in advance. And they may not do this. In my
>> experience, they did not do this preparation. They may advise the
>> organizational interface though.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Murali Chemuturi
>> www.chemuturi. com <http://www.chemutur i.com <http://www.chemuturi.com/>>
>> 91-40-27220771
>> 91-0-98850-19461
>> USA - 347-394-3138
>>
>> *From:* Jeff Dalton - Broadsword <mailto:jeff@Broadswordsolu tions.com
> <mailto:jeff@...>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:04 AM
>> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
>> <mailto:cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>>
>> *Subject:* RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
>> For FAR Group
>>
>>
>>
>> Hmmmmm. While I ALMOST always agree with Pat, I’ll have to challenge,
>> clarify, or question his response.
>>
>> Merely placing “how do you…” in front of each practice may not get you
>> there. Processes are very localized – local words, local procedures,
>> local language. In addition local process rarely has a 1:1 relationship
>> with the model and it’s up to the LA/ATMs to make the connections. In
>> my experience, most people who read the practices have no idea what the
>> model is asking for – the model was authored by a committee so the
>> language tends to be specific to the knowledge base of that group – not
>> the local company planning on having the appraisal.
>>
>> I WOULD agree that if you place “how do you…” + [how you implemented
one
>> or more practices in the model] then it could work.
>>
>> Warm Regards,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> Jeff Dalton, President and CEO
>>
>> Broadsword
>>
>> Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
>>
>> CMMI Instructor, SCAMPI Team Leader Observer
>>
>> 248.341.3367 (office)
>>
>> 248.709.4775 (cell)
>>
>> 248.341.3672 (fax)
>>
>> broadswordlogo. tif
>>
>> Visit our website at http://www.broadswo <http://www.broadswo/>
> rdsolutions. com
>> <http://www.broadswo rdsolutions. com
> <http://www.broadswordsolutions.com/>>
>>
>> Visit Jeff's blog at: http://www.asktheCM <http://www.askthecm/>
> MIAppraiser. com
>> <http://asktheCMMIAp praiser.blogspot .com
> <http://askthecmmiappraiser.blogspot.com/>>
>>
>> *From:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:cmmi_
>> process_improvem ent@yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick OToole
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 6:23 AM
>> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
>> *Subject:* Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
>> For FAR Group
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Umesh,
>>
>> Just put the words, "Could you please tell us how you you..." in front
>> of each practice and you'll have a pretty complete questionnaire.
>>
>> The other thing that I would HIGHLY recommend is that you don't START
>> with a SCAMPI A. Conduct a Class B appraisal first, and have some of
>> the folks go through the Class B interviews to get comfortable with the
>> process.
>>
>> It is not a test. The appraisal team is just trying to understand how
>> the work is performed on the projects. It should be more of a
>> "dialogue" than an "interview."
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> *From:* umesh koli <mailto:umesh.koli@yahoo. co.in
> <mailto:umesh.koli@...>>
>>
>> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
>> <mailto:cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>>
>>
>> *Cc:* umesh <mailto:koli.umesh@gmail. com <mailto:koli.umesh@...>>
>>
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 1:05 AM
>>
>> *Subject:* [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
>> For FAR Group
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Can any one share the Questionnaires fro SCAMPI - Appraisal, for
>> ML-3 , Currently my Organisation is going for SCAMPI -A and i want
>> to trained the Team who will be interviewed by ATM, As this is
>> first experience for them to face SCAMPI - A.
>>
>> I looking for some question based on Process Area, so Team (FAR
>> Group Member )will prepare them to answer.
>>
>> I search on Google but not able to find :(
>>
>> Please help me..........
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Umesh koli
>>
>> SQA Lead
>>
>>
>>
>> From cricket scores to your friends. Try the Yahoo! India Homepage!
>> <http://in.rd. yahoo.com/ tagline_metro_ 4/*http:/ in.yahoo.
> com/trynew
> <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_metro_4/*http:/in.yahoo.com/trynew>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> Dr. Ralf Kneuper
> Beratung fuer Softwarequalitaetsm anagement und Prozessverbesserung
> SEI-certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC
> iNTACS-certified ISO/IEC 15504 Principal Assessor
>
> Philipp-Roeth- Weg 14 ralf@kneuper. de <mailto:ralf@...>
> D-64295 Darmstadt www.kneuper. de
> Germany
> Tel. +49-(0)173-3432005
>
> PGP Public Key and Fingerprint: see www.kneuper. de/Kontakt/ pgp-key.html
>
>
> New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more.
> <http://windows.microsoft.com/shop>
>

- --

Dr. Ralf Kneuper
Beratung fuer Softwarequalitaetsmanagement und Prozessverbesserung
SEI-certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC
iNTACS-certified ISO/IEC 15504 Principal Assessor

Philipp-Roeth-Weg 14        ralf@...
D-64295 Darmstadt           www.kneuper.de
Germany
Tel. +49-(0)173-3432005

PGP Public Key and Fingerprint: see www.kneuper.de/Kontakt/pgp-key.html
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#16709 From: "Heather" <heather@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:06 pm
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group
heatheroppen...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Another thought (I've already answered this early on in the thread).

IF you feel you need to give people practice for the interviews to reduce their
anxiety (not because they need to memorize answers, right???) and don't think
they will feel comfortable just practicing telling someone what they do and how
they do it, here's a generic way to take the CMMI model language and help
translate it into the terminology and context of your organization.

For each CMMI practice in scope, identify what risk the practice helps avoid. 
(Don't forget to consider the practice in the context of the goal.)  Then ask
interviewees "What do you/we do to avoid this risk in the way you/we do your/our
work?"

For example:

REQM SP1.1 Develop an understanding with the requirements providers on the
meaning of the requirements.

How do you (or your team or the organization)avoid/mitigate the following risks:

When someone gives you a set of requirements, there's a chance you can
misunderstand the intent of the requirements or they will be incomplete or
contain assumptions you aren't aware of.  Also, if requirements don't come in
via appropriate channels (like when an end user calls a developer directly and
the developer says "SURE I can't do that, no sweat") there's a risk that the
functionality won't be documented, won't be tested, won't be charged for, will
break other functionality, won't be appropriate for all customers and/or end
users...

Are there procedures in place to reduce the risk?  What are they?

(BTW, Lead Appraisers who have been around since the CBA-IPI days generally want
to script questions before interviews, often during document review.  This is a
holdover from the previous assessment method and, though it can be useful, it's
not required by the SCAMPI methodology.)

Heather Oppenheimer
www.oppenpartners.com


--- In cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com, Andres Susarret
<andres_personal@...> wrote:
>
> Having been through a similar transition, I like this summary assessment that
Rebecca describes.
>
> However, unless I missed it, I do not recall anyone commenting yet on a common
challenge for interviewers and interviewees:  the terminology of the model that
would drive the interview questions may not map nicely to the terminology of the
work tasks and the work products being done by the team members being appraised.
>
> It seems that the mini-teams within the appraisal team are in the best
position to think ahead to how to adjust the questions to map to the particular
terminology and work practices that they see in the documented evidence before
the interviews take place.
>
> -andres
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Rebecca Coplon <rmcoplon@...>
> To: CMMI Process Improvements <cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 9:56:18 AM
> Subject: RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR
Group
>
>
> In the (relatively few, admittedly) appraisals and gap analyses I've been a
part of, I've noticed that there are three roles with different motivations on
this issue:
>
> 1.  ATM Interviewers.  If these are resources from inside the appraising
organization, they may have been through the necessary training but are not
necessarily as extensively knowledgeable about the CMMi model as the internal
process lead (IPL) and the Lead Appraiser (LA) are.  They have a certain amount
of stress based on the sheer volume of information to be processed, and making
sure all those little boxes get filled.  If, as I've experienced a couple of
times, the LA passes responsibility for a section of the interview, perhaps
based on the PAs that the mini-team is responsible for, to one of these folks,
there's additional stress to make sure that they ask all of the necessary
questions, and the model isn't second nature to them.  There's a strong instinct
to create a list of questions, to make sure everything's covered.
>
> 2.  Interviewees.  As representatives of the project, they likely have very
little exposure to the model, and mostly want to be absolutely sure that they're
ready to represent the project and the company as meeting the requirements,
without having confidence that they know what those are.  There's a strong
instinct to see a list of questions in advance, so that they know they can
answer the questions successfully.
>
> 3.  Lead Appraiser and possibly internal process lead.  These folks have been
involved in the process, internal audits or gap analysis, and are knowledgeable
enough about the model and the appraisal process itself to have a high level of
confidence that all of the necessary questions will get answered, and that
they'll be answered correctly, because the process is right.  They generally
don't have a strong instinct to need pre-formed questions.
>
> The solution, I think, has to do with reassurance for the first two groups. 
First, the IPL and/or LA can reassure the project teams that what's important is
to know the process for their job and, most importantly, not freak out during
the interview; after all, the LA and the IPL have reviewed the process against
the model and project performance against the process, and found it to be
sufficient to attempt the SCAMPI A.  Second, the LA can reassure the ATMs that
he/she will make sure that any questions that are missed get caught, and that
there is an opportunity to follow-up with the interviewees after the interview
sessions are over, if they find that a question was missed, that should put them
at ease.  In both cases, that should also eliminate the overwhelming urge both
parties have to make and review a pre-defined set of questions.
>
> -Rebecca, who vividly remembers the transition from one who obsessively wants
a list of questions to one who's pretty sure it'll all get covered in the
process of the appraisal.
>
>
> ________________________________
>  To: cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> From: PACT.otoole@ att.net
> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:53:26 -0600
> Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR
Group
>
>
> 
>
> Jeff,
>
> PERSONALLY, I think trying to prepare potential interviewees could be a HUGE
waste of time.  The VAST majority of the questions that my appraisal teams ask
are generated based on the documentation review - NOT some artificially
generated pre-scripted question set.
>
> Since I perceive it as a waste of time to generate such a general set of
useless questions, I gave a prescription to write a set without investing a
whole lot of time in that wasted effort.  People should know how they perform
their work and, as you well know, that's what we typically explore in appraisal
discussions.
>
> My biggest fear is that people that "over-prepare" for SCAMPI appraisals
actually come off sounding scripted and artificial, and it takes a while to
overcome that feeling.  In other words, I actually believe that it works AGAINST
the organization rather than for them.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pat
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> >From: Jeff Dalton - Broadsword
> >To: cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> >Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 12:34 PM
> >Subject: RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR
Group
> >
> >
> >Hmmmmm.   While I ALMOST always agree with Pat, I’ll have to challenge,
clarify, or question his response.
> >
> >Merely placing “how do you…” in front of each practice may not get you
there.  Processes are very localized " local words, local procedures, local
language. In addition local process rarely has a 1:1 relationship with the model
and it’s up to the LA/ATMs to make the connections.   In my experience, most
people who read the practices have no idea what the model is asking for " the
model was authored by a committee so the language tends to be specific to the
knowledge base of that group " not the local company planning on having the
appraisal.
> >I WOULD agree that if you place “how do you…” + [how you implemented
one or more practices in the model] then it could work.
> >Warm Regards,
> >Jeff
> >Jeff Dalton, President and CEO
> >Broadsword
> >Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
> >CMMI Instructor, SCAMPI Team Leader Observer
> >248.341.3367 (office)
> >248.709.4775 (cell)
> >248.341.3672 (fax)
> >Visit our website at http://www.broadswo rdsolutions. com
> >Visit Jeff's blog at: http://www.asktheCM MIAppraiser. com
> >From:cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:cmmi_
process_improvem ent@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Patrick OToole
> >Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 6:23 AM
> >To: cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> >Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR
Group
> >
> >>
> >
> >Umesh,
> >Just put the words, "Could you please tell us how you you..." in front of
each practice and you'll have a pretty complete questionnaire.
> >The other thing that I would HIGHLY recommend is that you don't START with a
SCAMPI A.  Conduct a Class B appraisal first, and have some of the folks go
through the Class B interviews to get comfortable with the process.
> >It is not a test.  The appraisal team is just trying to understand how the
work is performed on the projects.  It should be more of a "dialogue" than an
"interview."
> >Hope this helps,
> >Pat
> >----- Original Message -----
> >>From:umesh koli
> >>To:cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> >>Cc:umesh
> >>Sent:Monday, November 16, 2009 1:05 AM
> >>Subject:[CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR
Group
> >>
> >>Hi All,
> >>Can any one share the Questionnaires fro SCAMPI - Appraisal, for ML-3 ,
Currently my Organisation is going for SCAMPI -A  and i want to trained the Team
who will be interviewed by ATM, As this is first experience for them to face
SCAMPI - A.
> >>I looking for some question based on Process Area, so Team (FAR Group Member
)will prepare them to answer.
> >>I search on Google but not able to find :(
> >>Please help me..........
> >>Regards
> >>Umesh koli
> >>SQA Lead
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> ________________________________
>
> >>From cricket scores to your friends. Try the Yahoo! India Homepage!
> >
>
> ________________________________
> Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now.
>

#16710 From: "mhanna@..." <mhanna@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:32 pm
Subject: Upcoming Events for Software Testing/QA Professionals
tutameme04
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
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IIST Important Links
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#16711 From: vinod thomas <vinodt1347@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:16 am
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: A Basic doubt on defect density
vinodt1347
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi,
Is there a more practical way to measure DD? What about defects/No. of test cases. No of test cases would be propotional to size hopefully.

Rgds
Vinod


--- On Thu, 11/19/09, rob.leinen <rob.leinen@...> wrote:

From: rob.leinen <rob.leinen@...>
Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: A Basic doubt on defect density
To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 6:14 AM

 

VB,

Using defects>/<effort> to measure defect density is a flawed metric. You have to understand the correlations between these two variables to understand why it is not a good measurement for defect density. In a sense correlation measures the relationship an independent variable has on a dependent variable. And though it is true that there is a strong correlation between hours (independent variable) and defects (dependent variable), there is also a reverse correlation between defects and hour (although not as strong) as defects add rework (i.e., more hours) to a project. Depending on where the defects are introduced and where they are identified (defect age) there can be significant rework added. For example, a defect introduced in requirements but not caught until testing can add to 70 to 100 times more hours than a defect introduced in development and caught in testing.

What all this means is that if your organization starts experiencing a higher volume of older defects, your hours are going to increase significantly, but this metric will incorrectly indicate that your defect density is going down.

Regards,
Rob L

--- In cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com, "vijay" <thesoulstealer@ ...> wrote:
>
> I came across a formula where defect density was being measured as <# of defects>/<effort> in lieu of <# of defects>/<size> .
>
> The reason that was given was that there is no way in which size can be captured as most of the projects are either maintenance/ support kind of projects and to maintain commonality, the same formula has been adapted for development projects as well.
>
> I wanted to know if any of you have come across similar situations where this is in practice or if this is a valid interpretation of defect density.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> VB
>



#16712 From: "EDWARD F WELLER III" <edwardfwelleriii@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:48 pm
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: A Basic doubt on defect density
efwelleraol
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Rob
 
If effort spent on rework is accurately recorded in a separate bucket, such that you are measuring defects per hour of effort spent on the req/des/code (effort spent on developing the product) of the product and not rework, I believe your objection would be overcome.
 
Size has a similar problem depending on whether or not is is a new product, maintenance, add-on, domain, etc. Size (by itself) does not account for knowledge recovery.
 
I think there is a deeper issue here that is poorly understood - aggregation or sub grouping (depending on your preference)
 
All too often we see data that completely ignores fundamental differences in work type, product, language, domain, people experience and on and on lumped together into one simple equation for a derived measure. There is a focus on this at Level 4, but I think it is an equally important issue at the start of a measurement program.
----- Original Message -----
From: rob.leinen
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:14 AM
Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: A Basic doubt on defect density

 

VB,

Using defects>/<effort> to measure defect density is a flawed metric. You have to understand the correlations between these two variables to understand why it is not a good measurement for defect density. In a sense correlation measures the relationship an independent variable has on a dependent variable. And though it is true that there is a strong correlation between hours (independent variable) and defects (dependent variable), there is also a reverse correlation between defects and hour (although not as strong) as defects add rework (i.e., more hours) to a project. Depending on where the defects are introduced and where they are identified (defect age) there can be significant rework added. For example, a defect introduced in requirements but not caught until testing can add to 70 to 100 times more hours than a defect introduced in development and caught in testing.

What all this means is that if your organization starts experiencing a higher volume of older defects, your hours are going to increase significantly, but this metric will incorrectly indicate that your defect density is going down.

Regards,
Rob L

--- In cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com, "vijay" <thesoulstealer@...> wrote:
>
> I came across a formula where defect density was being measured as <# of defects>/<effort> in lieu of <# of defects>/<size>.
>
> The reason that was given was that there is no way in which size can be captured as most of the projects are either maintenance/support kind of projects and to maintain commonality, the same formula has been adapted for development projects as well.
>
> I wanted to know if any of you have come across similar situations where this is in practice or if this is a valid interpretation of defect density.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> VB
>


#16713 From: Jeffrey Dalton <jeff@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:03 pm
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group
jrd200x
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Yes Ralf,
 
But isn't an appraisal a "learning" event?  I mean, the SEI will be the first one to tell us, and they drill it into us as LAs, that an appraisal is not an audit, right?  And the purpose of an appraisal is to collaborate with the organization to help them achieve their process improvement goals.
 
If this is true (and I think it is), then isn't the line blurred between doing this for learning, and doing it for "appraisals" (which are for learning)?  If that's true, then it follows that this may not be "cheating" after all.
 
Like much of the CMMI, it's circular, and now I'm getting a headache.
 
Cheers,
 
Jeff

--- On Thu, 11/19/09, Ralf Kneuper <ralf@...> wrote:

From: Ralf Kneuper <ralf@...>
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group
To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 2:17 AM

 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jeff,

I fully agree with the approach you are describing but I see one
important difference to what Murali wrote: you train practitioners
as part of process design and deployment, while Murali was talking
about preparing the interviewees for the appraisal.

Best regards
Ralf

Jeffrey Dalton schrieb:
>
>
> Ralf,
>
> I'm sorry, but I disagree.
>
> Clearly, "coaching" them on the "answers," especially if they are not
> actually using the process, "borders on trying to cheat" but I don't
> think that is what Murali is saying.
>
> As part of process design and deployment for some clients (and NOT part
> of preparing for an appraisal) I often engage groups of practioners in a
> game of "20 questions" related to the process.
>
> I ask them questions like "so what happens when the customer asks for a
> change to the requirements" and I elicit answers from the group to
> descibe the process they use for managing this. I've found this is a
> powerful teaching tool that helps them understand the full breadth and
> depth of their responsibility.
> In this way, they learn to articulate the process, are able to
> understand it themselves, and most importantly, are able to evangalize
> it to their peers.
>
> It works, is useful, and leads to greater institutionalizatio n....the
> very essence of CMMI and the purported purpose of SCAMPI appraisals.
>
> So, I don't see it as "cheating" at all...it's learning.
>
> Jeff
>
> --- On *Tue, 11/17/09, Ralf Kneuper /<ralf@kneuper. de>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: Ralf Kneuper <ralf@kneuper. de>
> Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment
> Question For FAR Group
> To: cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2009, 10:12 AM
>
>
> Hi Murali,
>
> Sorry but I have to disagree.
>
> For developers etc there is no need to prepare for the interviews,
> and it is not helpful to tell them in advance why they are doing their
> work the way they do if they do not know anyhow.
> Either they need to know this for their day-to-day work. In this case,
> teaching them for the appraisal closely borders on trying to cheat -
> and there is a certain probability that the lead appraiser will notice
> and react accordingly.
> Or the developers do not need to have such background for their
> day-to-day work. In this case, teaching them for the appraisal is
> a waste of time and resources.
>
> What I usually tell interviewees (as part of the kickoff presentation)
> is that the questions will be about their day-to-day work, and they
> will usually know this anyhow, without preparation. Of course, they
> will not usually be able to fluently describe the complete process,
> but that is not a problem as long as they know their part in it.
>
> Best regards
> Ralf
>
> murali_chemuturi@ hotmail.com
> <http://us.mc2. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=murali_ chemuturi% 40hotmail. com>
> schrieb:
> >
> >
> > I would like to add why this query has cropped up originally.
> >
> > Many technical people, while being very good at their work, often fail
> > to articulate their assignment very well, especially in an interview
> > where the stakes are high and the management is watching closely. They
> > would like to articulate their assignment while at the same time, take
> > care of organizational interests.
> >
> > Second, for them this appraisal is of second priority. As soon as the
> > interview is over, they need to get back to delivering software to
> > clients. They would not prepare well on their own. The primary
> > responsibility to steer the organization thru SCAMPI often rests with
> > the SEPG or quality group.
> >
> > Now how to prepare the interviewees - prepare them to articulate their
> > work well. Not just what they do mechanically but why they are
> doing it
> > and how they are doing it.
> >
> > Who is best suited to do this - organizational SEPG / Quality or an
> > outside consultant. LA helping the people to articulate well is
> like the
> > examiner leaking the paper in advance. And they may not do this. In my
> > experience, they did not do this preparation. They may advise the
> > organizational interface though.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Murali Chemuturi
> > www.chemuturi. com <http://www.chemutur i.com
> <http://www.chemutur i.com/>>
> > 91-40-27220771
> > 91-0-98850-19461
> > USA - 347-394-3138
> >
> > *From:* Jeff Dalton - Broadsword <mailto:jeff@ Broadswordsolu
> tions.com
> <http://us.mc2. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=jeff%40Broads wordsolutions. com>>
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:04 AM
> > *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> > <mailto:cmmi_ process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <http://us.mc2. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=cmmi_process_ improvement% 40yahoogroups. com>>
> > *Subject:* RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment
> Question
> > For FAR Group
> >
> >
> >
> > Hmmmmm. While I ALMOST always agree with Pat, I’ll have to challenge,
> > clarify, or question his response.
> >
> > Merely placing “how do you…” in front of each practice may not get you
> > there. Processes are very localized – local words, local procedures,
> > local language. In addition local process rarely has a 1:1
> relationship
> > with the model and it’s up to the LA/ATMs to make the connections. In
> > my experience, most people who read the practices have no idea
> what the
> > model is asking for – the model was authored by a committee so the
> > language tends to be specific to the knowledge base of that group
> – not
> > the local company planning on having the appraisal.
> >
> > I WOULD agree that if you place “how do you…” + [how you
> implemented one
> > or more practices in the model] then it could work.
> >
> > Warm Regards,
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > Jeff Dalton, President and CEO
> >
> > Broadsword
> >
> > Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
> >
> > CMMI Instructor, SCAMPI Team Leader Observer
> >
> > 248.341.3367 (office)
> >
> > 248.709.4775 (cell)
> >
> > 248.341.3672 (fax)
> >
> > broadswordlogo. tif
> >
> > Visit our website at http://www.broadswo <http://www.broadswo />
> rdsolutions. com
> > <http://www.broadswo rdsolutions. com
> <http://www.broadswo rdsolutions. com/>>
> >
> > Visit Jeff's blog at: http://www.asktheCM <http://www.askthecm />
> MIAppraiser. com
> > <http://asktheCMMIAp praiser.blogspot .com
> <http://askthecmmiap praiser.blogspot .com/>>
> >
> > *From:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:cmmi_
> > process_improvem ent@yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick OToole
> > *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 6:23 AM
> > *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> > *Subject:* Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment
> Question
> > For FAR Group
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > Umesh,
> >
> > Just put the words, "Could you please tell us how you you..." in front
> > of each practice and you'll have a pretty complete questionnaire.
> >
> > The other thing that I would HIGHLY recommend is that you don't START
> > with a SCAMPI A. Conduct a Class B appraisal first, and have some of
> > the folks go through the Class B interviews to get comfortable
> with the
> > process.
> >
> > It is not a test. The appraisal team is just trying to understand how
> > the work is performed on the projects. It should be more of a
> > "dialogue" than an "interview."
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Pat
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* umesh koli <mailto:umesh. koli@yahoo. co.in
> <http://us.mc2. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=umesh. koli%40yahoo. co.in>>
> >
> > *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> > <mailto:cmmi_ process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <http://us.mc2. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=cmmi_process_ improvement% 40yahoogroups. com>>
> >
> > *Cc:* umesh <mailto:koli. umesh@gmail. com
> <http://us.mc2. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=koli.umesh% 40gmail.com>>
> >
> > *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 1:05 AM
> >
> > *Subject:* [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> > For FAR Group
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Can any one share the Questionnaires fro SCAMPI - Appraisal, for
> > ML-3 , Currently my Organisation is going for SCAMPI -A and i want
> > to trained the Team who will be interviewed by ATM, As this is
> > first experience for them to face SCAMPI - A.
> >
> > I looking for some question based on Process Area, so Team (FAR
> > Group Member )will prepare them to answer.
> >
> > I search on Google but not able to find :(
> >
> > Please help me..........
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Umesh koli
> >
> > SQA Lead
> >
> >
> >
> > From cricket scores to your friends. Try the Yahoo! India Homepage!
> > <http://in.rd. yahoo.com/ tagline_metro_ 4/*http:/ in.yahoo.
> com/trynew
> <http://in.rd. yahoo.com/ tagline_metro_ 4/*http:/ in.yahoo. com/trynew>>
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> Dr. Ralf Kneuper
> Beratung fuer Softwarequalitaetsm anagement und Prozessverbesserung
> SEI-certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC
> iNTACS-certified ISO/IEC 15504 Principal Assessor
>
> Philipp-Roeth- Weg 14 ralf@kneuper. de
> <http://us.mc2. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=ralf%40kneupe r.de>
> D-64295 Darmstadt www.kneuper. de
> Germany
> Tel. +49-(0)173-3432005
>
> PGP Public Key and Fingerprint: see www.kneuper. de/Kontakt/
> pgp-key.html
>
>

- --

Dr. Ralf Kneuper
Beratung fuer Softwarequalitaetsm anagement und Prozessverbesserung
SEI-certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC
iNTACS-certified ISO/IEC 15504 Principal Assessor

Philipp-Roeth- Weg 14 ralf@kneuper. de
D-64295 Darmstadt www.kneuper. de
Germany
Tel. +49-(0)173-3432005

PGP Public Key and Fingerprint: see www.kneuper. de/Kontakt/ pgp-key.html
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail. mozdev.org/

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#16714 From: "EDWARD F WELLER III" <edwardfwelleriii@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:43 am
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: A Basic doubt on defect density
efwelleraol
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

Test cases should not be proportional to size ( worded differently, if you choose to use size as the guidance for how many test cases you write  you are making a huge mistake, barring a monumental coincidence)
 
Test strategy and planning should be proportional to technical risk and knowledge of where defects will occur in the product (defect clustering) among other things.
 
It is quite possible that the largest parts of the system have fewer errors than smaller parts of the system.
 
As with all derived measures/indicators, you need to understand what they are telling us, or perhaps more accurately, what questions we should ask and actions to take.
 
If the operational definition of the measure and how the measure is used take into consideration appropriate sub grouping and relationships, then they are useable and possibly useful. Merely dividing two numbers and using the result is not telling us anything unless we understand the causality and correlation.
 
I have successfully used def/KLOC on many ("new") development projects, but would not try to use it on ALL projects. I am unaware of any silver bullets in our business :- (
 
I have used % of failing changes/fixes for maintenance projects as this avoids using size when we have small (1-40) lines of new/changed code, particularly as customers do not really care about size measures but are really interested in failure measures
 
As they say, your mileage will vary. I will add you also better know the capacity of your fuel tank and range because without these measures mileage is a meaningless number when you plan a trip where the distance between petrol stations is large (oops, another measure I need)
 
Regards
Ed
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: A Basic doubt on defect density

 

Hi,
Is there a more practical way to measure DD? What about defects/No. of test cases. No of test cases would be propotional to size hopefully.

Rgds
Vinod


--- On Thu, 11/19/09, rob.leinen <rob.leinen@gmail.com> wrote:

From: rob.leinen <rob.leinen@gmail.com>
Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: A Basic doubt on defect density
To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 6:14 AM

 

VB,

Using defects>/<effort> to measure defect density is a flawed metric. You have to understand the correlations between these two variables to understand why it is not a good measurement for defect density. In a sense correlation measures the relationship an independent variable has on a dependent variable. And though it is true that there is a strong correlation between hours (independent variable) and defects (dependent variable), there is also a reverse correlation between defects and hour (although not as strong) as defects add rework (i.e., more hours) to a project. Depending on where the defects are introduced and where they are identified (defect age) there can be significant rework added. For example, a defect introduced in requirements but not caught until testing can add to 70 to 100 times more hours than a defect introduced in development and caught in testing.

What all this means is that if your organization starts experiencing a higher volume of older defects, your hours are going to increase significantly, but this metric will incorrectly indicate that your defect density is going down.

Regards,
Rob L

--- In cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com, "vijay" <thesoulstealer@ ...> wrote:
>
> I came across a formula where defect density was being measured as <# of defects>/<effort> in lieu of <# of defects>/<size> .
>
> The reason that was given was that there is no way in which size can be captured as most of the projects are either maintenance/ support kind of projects and to maintain commonality, the same formula has been adapted for development projects as well.
>
> I wanted to know if any of you have come across similar situations where this is in practice or if this is a valid interpretation of defect density.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> VB
>



#16715 From: "GMAIL - Rob Leinen" <rob.leinen@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:43 pm
Subject: RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: A Basic doubt on defect density
rob.leinen
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

Ed,

 

That is very true, but in practice it can be very difficult for development teams to separate defect remediation from  normal effort as defects can have a rippling effect across many work products. 

 

On your second point, I agree that size brings issues of its own, but it is still a more sound base measure for defect density than hours in that defects have no impact on size; which is a must in a metric that measures defect density (i.e., you do not want a reverse correlation).

 

Regards,

Rob L.

 

From: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EDWARD F WELLER III
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 10:49 AM
To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: A Basic doubt on defect density

 

 

Rob

 

If effort spent on rework is accurately recorded in a separate bucket, such that you are measuring defects per hour of effort spent on the req/des/code (effort spent on developing the product) of the product and not rework, I believe your objection would be overcome.

 

Size has a similar problem depending on whether or not is is a new product, maintenance, add-on, domain, etc. Size (by itself) does not account for knowledge recovery.

 

I think there is a deeper issue here that is poorly understood - aggregation or sub grouping (depending on your preference)

 

All too often we see data that completely ignores fundamental differences in work type, product, language, domain, people experience and on and on lumped together into one simple equation for a derived measure. There is a focus on this at Level 4, but I think it is an equally important issue at the start of a measurement program.

----- Original Message -----

From: rob.leinen

Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:14 AM

Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: A Basic doubt on defect density

 

 

VB,

Using defects>/<effort> to measure defect density is a flawed metric. You have to understand the correlations between these two variables to understand why it is not a good measurement for defect density. In a sense correlation measures the relationship an independent variable has on a dependent variable. And though it is true that there is a strong correlation between hours (independent variable) and defects (dependent variable), there is also a reverse correlation between defects and hour (although not as strong) as defects add rework (i.e., more hours) to a project. Depending on where the defects are introduced and where they are identified (defect age) there can be significant rework added. For example, a defect introduced in requirements but not caught until testing can add to 70 to 100 times more hours than a defect introduced in development and caught in testing.

What all this means is that if your organization starts experiencing a higher volume of older defects, your hours are going to increase significantly, but this metric will incorrectly indicate that your defect density is going down.

Regards,
Rob L

--- In cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com, "vijay" <thesoulstealer@...> wrote:
>
> I came across a formula where defect density was being measured as <# of defects>/<effort> in lieu of <# of defects>/<size>.
>
> The reason that was given was that there is no way in which size can be captured as most of the projects are either maintenance/support kind of projects and to maintain commonality, the same formula has been adapted for development projects as well.
>
> I wanted to know if any of you have come across similar situations where this is in practice or if this is a valid interpretation of defect density.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> VB
>


#16716 From: "EDWARD F WELLER III" <edwardfwelleriii@...>
Date: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:10 am
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: A Basic doubt on defect density
efwelleraol
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Rob
 
definitely agree with your 2nd point.
 
On the first point, I have worked in orgs that separated initial development and rework with a fair degree of success - but there were those who viewed the world as "coding" regardless of the fact they sat in the lab debugging system test problems all day (Rework).
 
To your first point (gee we are pointing a lot here!) if a defect was caused by an incomplete solution to the initial requirement, do you charge the rework to completely satisfy the initial requirement into rework or development? Some is actually "new" work, but depending on how much you have to tear out and redo, some may be rework. Now we have a very difficult measurement problem that will cause the developers to revolt if we ask them to differentiate
 
I suppose if I continue this thought I will give up on measurement :- (
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 7:43 AM
Subject: RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: A Basic doubt on defect density

 

Ed,

That is very true, but in practice it can be very difficult for development teams to separate defect remediation from  normal effort as defects can have a rippling effect across many work products. 

On your second point, I agree that size brings issues of its own, but it is still a more sound base measure for defect density than hours in that defects have no impact on size; which is a must in a metric that measures defect density (i.e., you do not want a reverse correlation).

Regards,

Rob L.

From: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EDWARD F WELLER III
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 10:49 AM
To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: A Basic doubt on defect density

 

Rob

If effort spent on rework is accurately recorded in a separate bucket, such that you are measuring defects per hour of effort spent on the req/des/code (effort spent on developing the product) of the product and not rework, I believe your objection would be overcome.

Size has a similar problem depending on whether or not is is a new product, maintenance, add-on, domain, etc. Size (by itself) does not account for knowledge recovery.

I think there is a deeper issue here that is poorly understood - aggregation or sub grouping (depending on your preference)

All too often we see data that completely ignores fundamental differences in work type, product, language, domain, people experience and on and on lumped together into one simple equation for a derived measure. There is a focus on this at Level 4, but I think it is an equally important issue at the start of a measurement program.

----- Original Message -----

From: rob.leinen

Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:14 AM

Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] Re: A Basic doubt on defect density

 

VB,

Using defects>/<effort> to measure defect density is a flawed metric. You have to understand the correlations between these two variables to understand why it is not a good measurement for defect density. In a sense correlation measures the relationship an independent variable has on a dependent variable. And though it is true that there is a strong correlation between hours (independent variable) and defects (dependent variable), there is also a reverse correlation between defects and hour (although not as strong) as defects add rework (i.e., more hours) to a project. Depending on where the defects are introduced and where they are identified (defect age) there can be significant rework added. For example, a defect introduced in requirements but not caught until testing can add to 70 to 100 times more hours than a defect introduced in development and caught in testing.

What all this means is that if your organization starts experiencing a higher volume of older defects, your hours are going to increase significantly, but this metric will incorrectly indicate that your defect density is going down.

Regards,
Rob L

--- In cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com, "vijay" <thesoulstealer@...> wrote:
>
> I came across a formula where defect density was being measured as <# of defects>/<effort> in lieu of <# of defects>/<size>.
>
> The reason that was given was that there is no way in which size can be captured as most of the projects are either maintenance/support kind of projects and to maintain commonality, the same formula has been adapted for development projects as well.
>
> I wanted to know if any of you have come across similar situations where this is in practice or if this is a valid interpretation of defect density.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> VB
>


#16717 From: "Donna Reed" <donna@...>
Date: Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:44 pm
Subject: WEBINAR - "Becoming Agile for Project Managers" an Interview with Greg Smith (12/2)
donnareed7
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
WEBINAR - "Becoming Agile for Project Managers" an Interview with Greg Smith (12/2)
 
Reserve your Webinar seat now at: http://ow.ly/Bz8T
 
In this interview with Greg Smith, author of "Becoming Agile in an imperfect world", we discuss WHEN, WHERE & HOW project managers can leverage Agile techniques to deal with
  • compressed schedules,
  • changing requirements,
  • risk,
  • and much more
...in order to deliver what the customer actually needs
GAIN YOUR COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE BY BECOMING an AGILE PM !
 
PDU’s: 1
COST: Free
 
*** All who register will receive a link to the recording ***

#16718 From: <murali_chemuturi@...>
Date: Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:41 am
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group
chemuturi
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Ralf
 
I have been out of town from 18th till date and hence the delay in my response.
 
I did not advocate preparing / training people for facing the interview. I only stated the need to prepare them to "articulate" their work properly.
 
You see, in India where English is not the mother tongue for the appraisal team as well as the appraisers, the communication gap is high. Both think in their mother tongues and then translate into English to communicate. Thus there is a large communication gap. Communication gap exists even when people communicate in their mother tongues.
 
Daily working becomes a routine. A project manager plans once and the regular daily chore is to allocate and de-allocate work; arrange quality assurance; troubleshoot issues; communicate with client; meetings with management and so on. Even for PMI certified PMs, the philosophy is relegated to background with the passage of time and the daily routine. Their communication is in cryptic and colloquial lingo. So it is necessary to prepare them to articulate well so that external people can understand properly. The preparation is for proper articulation; emphasizes on removing the colloquial language and expand the cryptic explanation to make it understandable for the external people. I suggested helping them to answer well. I did not advocate giving them a set of important questions (with answers as well) to prepare well.
 
Dry runs are common in the industry. When a sales rep goes for a presentation, he is made to go thru a dry run. When a faculty handles a new training session, a dry run is used to smoothen rough edges. I am sure that you have gone thru some dry runs. Dry runs are used when the stakes are high. In SCAMPI the stakes are certainly high.
 
I hope that this clarifies
 
Murali Chemuturi
www.chemuturi.com
91-40-27220771
91-0-98850-19461
USA - 347-394-3138

Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

Hi Murali,

Sorry but I have to disagree.

For developers etc there is no need to prepare for the interviews,
and it is not helpful to tell them in advance why they are doing their
work the way they do if they do not know anyhow.
Either they need to know this for their day-to-day work. In this case,
teaching them for the appraisal closely borders on trying to cheat -
and there is a certain probability that the lead appraiser will notice
and react accordingly.
Or the developers do not need to have such background for their
day-to-day work. In this case, teaching them for the appraisal is
a waste of time and resources.

What I usually tell interviewees (as part of the kickoff presentation)
is that the questions will be about their day-to-day work, and they
will usually know this anyhow, without preparation. Of course, they
will not usually be able to fluently describe the complete process,
but that is not a problem as long as they know their part in it.

Best regards
Ralf

murali_chemuturi@hotmail.com schrieb:
>
>
> I would like to add why this query has cropped up originally.
>
> Many technical people, while being very good at their work, often fail
> to articulate their assignment very well, especially in an interview
> where the stakes are high and the management is watching closely. They
> would like to articulate their assignment while at the same time, take
> care of organizational interests.
>
> Second, for them this appraisal is of second priority. As soon as the
> interview is over, they need to get back to delivering software to
> clients. They would not prepare well on their own. The primary
> responsibility to steer the organization thru SCAMPI often rests with
> the SEPG or quality group.
>
> Now how to prepare the interviewees - prepare them to articulate their
> work well. Not just what they do mechanically but why they are doing it
> and how they are doing it.
>
> Who is best suited to do this - organizational SEPG / Quality or an
> outside consultant. LA helping the people to articulate well is like the
> examiner leaking the paper in advance. And they may not do this. In my
> experience, they did not do this preparation. They may advise the
> organizational interface though.
>
> Best wishes
> Murali Chemuturi
> www.chemuturi. com <http://www.chemuturi.com>
> 91-40-27220771
> 91-0-98850-19461
> USA - 347-394-3138
>
> *From:* Jeff Dalton - Broadsword <mailto:jeff@Broadswordsolutions.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:04 AM
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>
> *Subject:* RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> Hmmmmm. While I ALMOST always agree with Pat, I’ll have to challenge,
> clarify, or question his response.
>
> Merely placing “how do you…” in front of each practice may not get you
> there. Processes are very localized – local words, local procedures,
> local language. In addition local process rarely has a 1:1 relationship
> with the model and it’s up to the LA/ATMs to make the connections. In
> my experience, most people who read the practices have no idea what the
> model is asking for – the model was authored by a committee so the
> language tends to be specific to the knowledge base of that group – not
> the local company planning on having the appraisal.
>
> I WOULD agree that if you place “how do you…” + [how you implemented one
> or more practices in the model] then it could work.
>
> Warm Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
> Jeff Dalton, President and CEO
>
> Broadsword
>
> Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
>
> CMMI Instructor, SCAMPI Team Leader Observer
>
> 248.341.3367 (office)
>
> 248.709.4775 (cell)
>
> 248.341.3672 (fax)
>
> broadswordlogo.tif
>
> Visit our website at http://www.broadswo rdsolutions. com
> <http://www.broadswordsolutions.com>
>
> Visit Jeff's blog at: http://www.asktheCM MIAppraiser. com
> <http://asktheCMMIAppraiser.blogspot.com>
>
> *From:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:cmmi_
> process_improvem ent@yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick OToole
> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 6:23 AM
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> *Subject:* Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> 
>
> Umesh,
>
> Just put the words, "Could you please tell us how you you..." in front
> of each practice and you'll have a pretty complete questionnaire.
>
> The other thing that I would HIGHLY recommend is that you don't START
> with a SCAMPI A. Conduct a Class B appraisal first, and have some of
> the folks go through the Class B interviews to get comfortable with the
> process.
>
> It is not a test. The appraisal team is just trying to understand how
> the work is performed on the projects. It should be more of a
> "dialogue" than an "interview."
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Pat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* umesh koli <mailto:umesh.koli@yahoo.co.in>
>
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>
>
> *Cc:* umesh <mailto:koli.umesh@gmail.com>
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 1:05 AM
>
> *Subject:* [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Can any one share the Questionnaires fro SCAMPI - Appraisal, for
> ML-3 , Currently my Organisation is going for SCAMPI -A and i want
> to trained the Team who will be interviewed by ATM, As this is
> first experience for them to face SCAMPI - A.
>
> I looking for some question based on Process Area, so Team (FAR
> Group Member )will prepare them to answer.
>
> I search on Google but not able to find :(
>
> Please help me..........
>
> Regards
>
> Umesh koli
>
> SQA Lead
>
>
>
> From cricket scores to your friends. Try the Yahoo! India Homepage!
> <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_metro_4/*http:/in.yahoo.com/trynew>
>
>

--

Dr. Ralf Kneuper
Beratung fuer Softwarequalitaetsmanagement und Prozessverbesserung
SEI-certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC
iNTACS-certified ISO/IEC 15504 Principal Assessor

Philipp-Roeth-Weg 14 ralf@kneuper.de
D-64295 Darmstadt www.kneuper.de
Germany
Tel. +49-(0)173-3432005

PGP Public Key and Fingerprint: see www.kneuper.de/Kontakt/pgp-key.html


#16719 From: "Henry Schneider | PPQC" <henry@...>
Date: Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:27 am
Subject: RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group
astralingua
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

Dear Murali,

I have a question for you.  If English is not the mother language for the appraisal team and the organization, why is the appraisal being conducted in English?    That doesn’t make sense to me.  As far as I know, the only need for English associated with a SCAMPI appraisal is the Final Findings Presentation and the reporting of the results to the SEI.  It makes for a much better experience for everyone if the appraisal is conducted in the mother language and the results reported to the SEI in English.

 

I understand your point about a dry run.  That is one of the primary reasons why I recommend a SCAMPI B appraisal as a dress rehearsal for the SCAMPI A.  The SCAMPI B provides the interview experience without the added stress of level rating.  One problem that you might run into by holding internal dry runs for appraisal interviews is that the interviewees could  be coached on the “correct” answer and then be totally unprepared to answer questions that are different from what they have been trained to answer.

 

In my opinion, it is better for the organization to experience an appraisal first hand with a SCAMPI B rather than training people on how to answer questions.

 

Best Regards,
Henry Schneider

 

 

 

 

Henry Schneider
President/Senior Principal Consultant

http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/bg_bluegel_385x42.jpg

Work:  281-218-6682
Mobile:  832-628-2486

SEI_Partner_CMU_1Line_Black copy

SEI-Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser (CMMI-DEV, CMMI-ACQ, CMMI-SVC)

SEI-Certified High Maturity Lead Appraiser

SEI-Authorized Intro to CMMI Instructor

SEI-Authorized Acquisition Supplement for Intro to CMMI Instructor

SEI-Authorized Services Supplement for Intro to CMMI Instructor

Email:  henry@...
http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/icon_in_blue_14x14.gif 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/henryschneider

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Process and Product Quality Consulting

Facilitating your process journey ...

See who we know in common

Want a signature like this? 

Visit the PPQC web site www.ppqc.net and read the PPQC blog PPQC.blogspot.com

 

From: murali_chemuturi@... [mailto:murali_chemuturi@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:42 PM
To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

 

Dear Ralf

 

I have been out of town from 18th till date and hence the delay in my response.

 

I did not advocate preparing / training people for facing the interview. I only stated the need to prepare them to "articulate" their work properly.

 

You see, in India where English is not the mother tongue for the appraisal team as well as the appraisers, the communication gap is high. Both think in their mother tongues and then translate into English to communicate. Thus there is a large communication gap. Communication gap exists even when people communicate in their mother tongues.

 

Daily working becomes a routine. A project manager plans once and the regular daily chore is to allocate and de-allocate work; arrange quality assurance; troubleshoot issues; communicate with client; meetings with management and so on. Even for PMI certified PMs, the philosophy is relegated to background with the passage of time and the daily routine. Their communication is in cryptic and colloquial lingo. So it is necessary to prepare them to articulate well so that external people can understand properly. The preparation is for proper articulation; emphasizes on removing the colloquial language and expand the cryptic explanation to make it understandable for the external people. I suggested helping them to answer well. I did not advocate giving them a set of important questions (with answers as well) to prepare well.

 

Dry runs are common in the industry. When a sales rep goes for a presentation, he is made to go thru a dry run. When a faculty handles a new training session, a dry run is used to smoothen rough edges. I am sure that you have gone thru some dry runs. Dry runs are used when the stakes are high. In SCAMPI the stakes are certainly high.

 

I hope that this clarifies

 

Murali Chemuturi
www.chemuturi.com
91-40-27220771
91-0-98850-19461
USA - 347-394-3138

 

From: Ralf Kneuper

Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:42 PM

Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

 

Hi Murali,

Sorry but I have to disagree.

For developers etc there is no need to prepare for the interviews,
and it is not helpful to tell them in advance why they are doing their
work the way they do if they do not know anyhow.
Either they need to know this for their day-to-day work. In this case,
teaching them for the appraisal closely borders on trying to cheat -
and there is a certain probability that the lead appraiser will notice
and react accordingly.
Or the developers do not need to have such background for their
day-to-day work. In this case, teaching them for the appraisal is
a waste of time and resources.

What I usually tell interviewees (as part of the kickoff presentation)
is that the questions will be about their day-to-day work, and they
will usually know this anyhow, without preparation. Of course, they
will not usually be able to fluently describe the complete process,
but that is not a problem as long as they know their part in it.

Best regards
Ralf

murali_chemuturi@... schrieb:
>
>
> I would like to add why this query has cropped up originally.
>
> Many technical people, while being very good at their work, often fail
> to articulate their assignment very well, especially in an interview
> where the stakes are high and the management is watching closely. They
> would like to articulate their assignment while at the same time, take
> care of organizational interests.
>
> Second, for them this appraisal is of second priority. As soon as the
> interview is over, they need to get back to delivering software to
> clients. They would not prepare well on their own. The primary
> responsibility to steer the organization thru SCAMPI often rests with
> the SEPG or quality group.
>
> Now how to prepare the interviewees - prepare them to articulate their
> work well. Not just what they do mechanically but why they are doing it
> and how they are doing it.
>
> Who is best suited to do this - organizational SEPG / Quality or an
> outside consultant. LA helping the people to articulate well is like the
> examiner leaking the paper in advance. And they may not do this. In my
> experience, they did not do this preparation. They may advise the
> organizational interface though.
>
> Best wishes
> Murali Chemuturi
> www.chemuturi. com <http://www.chemuturi.com>
> 91-40-27220771
> 91-0-98850-19461
> USA - 347-394-3138
>
> *From:* Jeff Dalton - Broadsword <mailto:jeff@...>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:04 AM
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>
> *Subject:* RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> Hmmmmm. While I ALMOST always agree with Pat, I’ll have to challenge,
> clarify, or question his response.
>
> Merely placing “how do you…” in front of each practice may not get you
> there. Processes are very localized – local words, local procedures,
> local language. In addition local process rarely has a 1:1 relationship
> with the model and it’s up to the LA/ATMs to make the connections. In
> my experience, most people who read the practices have no idea what the
> model is asking for – the model was authored by a committee so the
> language tends to be specific to the knowledge base of that group – not
> the local company planning on having the appraisal.
>
> I WOULD agree that if you place “how do you…” + [how you implemented one
> or more practices in the model] then it could work.
>
> Warm Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
> Jeff Dalton, President and CEO
>
> Broadsword
>
> Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
>
> CMMI Instructor, SCAMPI Team Leader Observer
>
> 248.341.3367 (office)
>
> 248.709.4775 (cell)
>
> 248.341.3672 (fax)
>
> broadswordlogo.tif
>
> Visit our website at http://www.broadswo rdsolutions. com
> <http://www.broadswordsolutions.com>
>
> Visit Jeff's blog at: http://www.asktheCM MIAppraiser. com
> <http://asktheCMMIAppraiser.blogspot.com>
>
> *From:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:cmmi_
> process_improvem ent@yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick OToole
> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 6:23 AM
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> *Subject:* Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> 
>
> Umesh,
>
> Just put the words, "Could you please tell us how you you..." in front
> of each practice and you'll have a pretty complete questionnaire.
>
> The other thing that I would HIGHLY recommend is that you don't START
> with a SCAMPI A. Conduct a Class B appraisal first, and have some of
> the folks go through the Class B interviews to get comfortable with the
> process.
>
> It is not a test. The appraisal team is just trying to understand how
> the work is performed on the projects. It should be more of a
> "dialogue" than an "interview."
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Pat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* umesh koli <mailto:umesh.koli@...>
>
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>
>
> *Cc:* umesh <mailto:koli.umesh@...>
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 1:05 AM
>
> *Subject:* [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Can any one share the Questionnaires fro SCAMPI - Appraisal, for
> ML-3 , Currently my Organisation is going for SCAMPI -A and i want
> to trained the Team who will be interviewed by ATM, As this is
> first experience for them to face SCAMPI - A.
>
> I looking for some question based on Process Area, so Team (FAR
> Group Member )will prepare them to answer.
>
> I search on Google but not able to find :(
>
> Please help me..........
>
> Regards
>
> Umesh koli
>
> SQA Lead
>
>
>
> From cricket scores to your friends. Try the Yahoo! India Homepage!
> <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_metro_4/*http:/in.yahoo.com/trynew>
>
>

--

Dr. Ralf Kneuper
Beratung fuer Softwarequalitaetsmanagement und Prozessverbesserung
SEI-certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC
iNTACS-certified ISO/IEC 15504 Principal Assessor

Philipp-Roeth-Weg 14 ralf@...
D-64295 Darmstadt www.kneuper.de
Germany
Tel. +49-(0)173-3432005

PGP Public Key and Fingerprint: see www.kneuper.de/Kontakt/pgp-key.html


#16720 From: "Jeff Dalton - Broadsword" <jeff@...>
Date: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:19 pm
Subject: RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group
jrd200x
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

Henry,

 

You’ve assumed they all speak the same language, but they may not.  I’ve had appraisals where the only COMMON language is English.  Especially in India, it’s not that uncommon for 3-4 languages to be the “mother tongue” of participants.  This is often true in the US, where many team members claim English as their second, or third, language.

 

So what then?

 

Jeff

 

Warm Regards,

 

Jeff

 

Jeff Dalton, President and CEO

Broadsword

Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser

CMMI Instructor, SCAMPI Team Leader Observer

 

248.341.3367 (office)

248.709.4775 (cell)

248.341.3672 (fax)

 

broadswordlogo.tif

 

Visit our website at http://www.broadswordsolutions.com

 

Visit Jeff's blog at: http://www.asktheCMMIAppraiser.com

 

 

From: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Henry Schneider | PPQC
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 11:27 PM
To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

 

Dear Murali,

I have a question for you.  If English is not the mother language for the appraisal team and the organization, why is the appraisal being conducted in English?    That doesn’t make sense to me.  As far as I know, the only need for English associated with a SCAMPI appraisal is the Final Findings Presentation and the reporting of the results to the SEI.  It makes for a much better experience for everyone if the appraisal is conducted in the mother language and the results reported to the SEI in English.

 

I understand your point about a dry run.  That is one of the primary reasons why I recommend a SCAMPI B appraisal as a dress rehearsal for the SCAMPI A.  The SCAMPI B provides the interview experience without the added stress of level rating.  One problem that you might run into by holding internal dry runs for appraisal interviews is that the interviewees could  be coached on the “correct” answer and then be totally unprepared to answer questions that are different from what they have been trained to answer.

 

In my opinion, it is better for the organization to experience an appraisal first hand with a SCAMPI B rather than training people on how to answer questions.

 

Best Regards,
Henry Schneider

 

 

 

 

Henry Schneider
President/Senior Principal Consultant

http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/bg_bluegel_385x42.jpg

Work:  281-218-6682
Mobile:  832-628-2486

SEI_Partner_CMU_1Line_Black copy

SEI-Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser (CMMI-DEV, CMMI-ACQ, CMMI-SVC)

SEI-Certified High Maturity Lead Appraiser

SEI-Authorized Intro to CMMI Instructor

SEI-Authorized Acquisition Supplement for Intro to CMMI Instructor

SEI-Authorized Services Supplement for Intro to CMMI Instructor

Email:  henry@...
http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/icon_in_blue_14x14.gif 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/henryschneider

Video Handshake

Slightly Bigger PPQC logo gel

Process and Product Quality Consulting

Facilitating your process journey ...

See who we know in common

Want a signature like this? 

Visit the PPQC web site www.ppqc.net and read the PPQC blog PPQC.blogspot.com

 

From: murali_chemuturi@... [mailto:murali_chemuturi@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:42 PM
To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

 

Dear Ralf

 

I have been out of town from 18th till date and hence the delay in my response.

 

I did not advocate preparing / training people for facing the interview. I only stated the need to prepare them to "articulate" their work properly.

 

You see, in India where English is not the mother tongue for the appraisal team as well as the appraisers, the communication gap is high. Both think in their mother tongues and then translate into English to communicate. Thus there is a large communication gap. Communication gap exists even when people communicate in their mother tongues.

 

Daily working becomes a routine. A project manager plans once and the regular daily chore is to allocate and de-allocate work; arrange quality assurance; troubleshoot issues; communicate with client; meetings with management and so on. Even for PMI certified PMs, the philosophy is relegated to background with the passage of time and the daily routine. Their communication is in cryptic and colloquial lingo. So it is necessary to prepare them to articulate well so that external people can understand properly. The preparation is for proper articulation; emphasizes on removing the colloquial language and expand the cryptic explanation to make it understandable for the external people. I suggested helping them to answer well. I did not advocate giving them a set of important questions (with answers as well) to prepare well.

 

Dry runs are common in the industry. When a sales rep goes for a presentation, he is made to go thru a dry run. When a faculty handles a new training session, a dry run is used to smoothen rough edges. I am sure that you have gone thru some dry runs. Dry runs are used when the stakes are high. In SCAMPI the stakes are certainly high.

 

I hope that this clarifies

 

Murali Chemuturi
www.chemuturi.com
91-40-27220771
91-0-98850-19461
USA - 347-394-3138

 

From: Ralf Kneuper

Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:42 PM

Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

 

Hi Murali,

Sorry but I have to disagree.

For developers etc there is no need to prepare for the interviews,
and it is not helpful to tell them in advance why they are doing their
work the way they do if they do not know anyhow.
Either they need to know this for their day-to-day work. In this case,
teaching them for the appraisal closely borders on trying to cheat -
and there is a certain probability that the lead appraiser will notice
and react accordingly.
Or the developers do not need to have such background for their
day-to-day work. In this case, teaching them for the appraisal is
a waste of time and resources.

What I usually tell interviewees (as part of the kickoff presentation)
is that the questions will be about their day-to-day work, and they
will usually know this anyhow, without preparation. Of course, they
will not usually be able to fluently describe the complete process,
but that is not a problem as long as they know their part in it.

Best regards
Ralf

murali_chemuturi@... schrieb:
>
>
> I would like to add why this query has cropped up originally.
>
> Many technical people, while being very good at their work, often fail
> to articulate their assignment very well, especially in an interview
> where the stakes are high and the management is watching closely. They
> would like to articulate their assignment while at the same time, take
> care of organizational interests.
>
> Second, for them this appraisal is of second priority. As soon as the
> interview is over, they need to get back to delivering software to
> clients. They would not prepare well on their own. The primary
> responsibility to steer the organization thru SCAMPI often rests with
> the SEPG or quality group.
>
> Now how to prepare the interviewees - prepare them to articulate their
> work well. Not just what they do mechanically but why they are doing it
> and how they are doing it.
>
> Who is best suited to do this - organizational SEPG / Quality or an
> outside consultant. LA helping the people to articulate well is like the
> examiner leaking the paper in advance. And they may not do this. In my
> experience, they did not do this preparation. They may advise the
> organizational interface though.
>
> Best wishes
> Murali Chemuturi
> www.chemuturi. com <http://www.chemuturi.com>
> 91-40-27220771
> 91-0-98850-19461
> USA - 347-394-3138
>
> *From:* Jeff Dalton - Broadsword <mailto:jeff@...>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:04 AM
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>
> *Subject:* RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> Hmmmmm. While I ALMOST always agree with Pat, I’ll have to challenge,
> clarify, or question his response.
>
> Merely placing “how do you…” in front of each practice may not get you
> there. Processes are very localized – local words, local procedures,
> local language. In addition local process rarely has a 1:1 relationship
> with the model and it’s up to the LA/ATMs to make the connections. In
> my experience, most people who read the practices have no idea what the
> model is asking for – the model was authored by a committee so the
> language tends to be specific to the knowledge base of that group – not
> the local company planning on having the appraisal.
>
> I WOULD agree that if you place “how do you…” + [how you implemented one
> or more practices in the model] then it could work.
>
> Warm Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
> Jeff Dalton, President and CEO
>
> Broadsword
>
> Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
>
> CMMI Instructor, SCAMPI Team Leader Observer
>
> 248.341.3367 (office)
>
> 248.709.4775 (cell)
>
> 248.341.3672 (fax)
>
> broadswordlogo.tif
>
> Visit our website at http://www.broadswo rdsolutions. com
> <http://www.broadswordsolutions.com>
>
> Visit Jeff's blog at: http://www.asktheCM MIAppraiser. com
> <http://asktheCMMIAppraiser.blogspot.com>
>
> *From:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:cmmi_
> process_improvem ent@yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick OToole
> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 6:23 AM
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> *Subject:* Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> 
>
> Umesh,
>
> Just put the words, "Could you please tell us how you you..." in front
> of each practice and you'll have a pretty complete questionnaire.
>
> The other thing that I would HIGHLY recommend is that you don't START
> with a SCAMPI A. Conduct a Class B appraisal first, and have some of
> the folks go through the Class B interviews to get comfortable with the
> process.
>
> It is not a test. The appraisal team is just trying to understand how
> the work is performed on the projects. It should be more of a
> "dialogue" than an "interview."
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Pat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* umesh koli <mailto:umesh.koli@...>
>
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>
>
> *Cc:* umesh <mailto:koli.umesh@...>
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 1:05 AM
>
> *Subject:* [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Can any one share the Questionnaires fro SCAMPI - Appraisal, for
> ML-3 , Currently my Organisation is going for SCAMPI -A and i want
> to trained the Team who will be interviewed by ATM, As this is
> first experience for them to face SCAMPI - A.
>
> I looking for some question based on Process Area, so Team (FAR
> Group Member )will prepare them to answer.
>
> I search on Google but not able to find :(
>
> Please help me..........
>
> Regards
>
> Umesh koli
>
> SQA Lead
>
>
>
> From cricket scores to your friends. Try the Yahoo! India Homepage!
> <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_metro_4/*http:/in.yahoo.com/trynew>
>
>

--

Dr. Ralf Kneuper
Beratung fuer Softwarequalitaetsmanagement und Prozessverbesserung
SEI-certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC
iNTACS-certified ISO/IEC 15504 Principal Assessor

Philipp-Roeth-Weg 14 ralf@...
D-64295 Darmstadt www.kneuper.de
Germany
Tel. +49-(0)173-3432005

PGP Public Key and Fingerprint: see www.kneuper.de/Kontakt/pgp-key.html


#16721 From: Andres Susarret <andres_personal@...>
Date: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:56 pm
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group
andres_personal
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
Henry --

English is not the "mother language" in India but it is the language of business there.  Having a lot of colleagues in India, I can appreciate the complexity of Murali's dilemma.

Thanks,

-andres


From: Henry Schneider | PPQC <henry@...>
To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, November 22, 2009 10:27:06 PM
Subject: RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

Dear Murali,

I have a question for you.  If English is not the mother language for the appraisal team and the organization, why is the appraisal being conducted in English?    That doesn’t make sense to me.  As far as I know, the only need for English associated with a SCAMPI appraisal is the Final Findings Presentation and the reporting of the results to the SEI.  It makes for a much better experience for everyone if the appraisal is conducted in the mother language and the results reported to the SEI in English.

 

I understand your point about a dry run.  That is one of the primary reasons why I recommend a SCAMPI B appraisal as a dress rehearsal for the SCAMPI A.  The SCAMPI B provides the interview experience without the added stress of level rating.  One problem that you might run into by holding internal dry runs for appraisal interviews is that the interviewees could  be coached on the “correct” answer and then be totally unprepared to answer questions that are different from what they have been trained to answer.

 

In my opinion, it is better for the organization to experience an appraisal first hand with a SCAMPI B rather than training people on how to answer questions.

 

Best Regards,
Henry Schneider

 

 

 

 

Henry Schneider
President/Senior Principal Consultant

http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/bg_bluegel_385x42.jpg

Work:  281-218-6682
Mobile:  832-628-2486

SEI_Partner_CMU_1Line_Black copy

SEI-Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser (CMMI-DEV, CMMI-ACQ, CMMI-SVC)

SEI-Certified High Maturity Lead Appraiser

SEI-Authorized Intro to CMMI Instructor

SEI-Authorized Acquisition Supplement for Intro to CMMI Instructor

SEI-Authorized Services Supplement for Intro to CMMI Instructor

Email:  henry@...
http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/icon_in_blue_14x14.gif 
http://www.linkedin .com/in/henrysch neider

Video Handshake

Slightly Bigger PPQC logo gel

Process and Product Quality Consulting

Facilitating your process journey ...

See who we know in common

Want a signature like this? 

Visit the PPQC web site www.ppqc.net and read the PPQC blog PPQC.blogspot. com

 

From: murali_chemuturi@ hotmail.com [mailto:murali_ chemuturi@ hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:42 PM
To: cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

 

Dear Ralf

 

I have been out of town from 18th till date and hence the delay in my response.

 

I did not advocate preparing / training people for facing the interview. I only stated the need to prepare them to "articulate" their work properly.

 

You see, in India where English is not the mother tongue for the appraisal team as well as the appraisers, the communication gap is high. Both think in their mother tongues and then translate into English to communicate. Thus there is a large communication gap. Communication gap exists even when people communicate in their mother tongues.

 

Daily working becomes a routine. A project manager plans once and the regular daily chore is to allocate and de-allocate work; arrange quality assurance; troubleshoot issues; communicate with client; meetings with management and so on. Even for PMI certified PMs, the philosophy is relegated to background with the passage of time and the daily routine. Their communication is in cryptic and colloquial lingo. So it is necessary to prepare them to articulate well so that external people can understand properly. The preparation is for proper articulation; emphasizes on removing the colloquial language and expand the cryptic explanation to make it understandable for the external people. I suggested helping them to answer well. I did not advocate giving them a set of important questions (with answers as well) to prepare well.

 

Dry runs are common in the industry. When a sales rep goes for a presentation, he is made to go thru a dry run. When a faculty handles a new training session, a dry run is used to smoothen rough edges. I am sure that you have gone thru some dry runs. Dry runs are used when the stakes are high. In SCAMPI the stakes are certainly high.

 

I hope that this clarifies

 

Murali Chemuturi
www.chemuturi. com
91-40-27220771
91-0-98850-19461
USA - 347-394-3138

 

From: Ralf Kneuper

Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:42 PM

Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

 

Hi Murali,

Sorry but I have to disagree.

For developers etc there is no need to prepare for the interviews,
and it is not helpful to tell them in advance why they are doing their
work the way they do if they do not know anyhow.
Either they need to know this for their day-to-day work. In this case,
teaching them for the appraisal closely borders on trying to cheat -
and there is a certain probability that the lead appraiser will notice
and react accordingly.
Or the developers do not need to have such background for their
day-to-day work. In this case, teaching them for the appraisal is
a waste of time and resources.

What I usually tell interviewees (as part of the kickoff presentation)
is that the questions will be about their day-to-day work, and they
will usually know this anyhow, without preparation. Of course, they
will not usually be able to fluently describe the complete process,
but that is not a problem as long as they know their part in it.

Best regards
Ralf

murali_chemuturi@ hotmail.com schrieb:
>
>
> I would like to add why this query has cropped up originally.
>
> Many technical people, while being very good at their work, often fail
> to articulate their assignment very well, especially in an interview
> where the stakes are high and the management is watching closely. They
> would like to articulate their assignment while at the same time, take
> care of organizational interests.
>
> Second, for them this appraisal is of second priority. As soon as the
> interview is over, they need to get back to delivering software to
> clients. They would not prepare well on their own. The primary
> responsibility to steer the organization thru SCAMPI often rests with
> the SEPG or quality group.
>
> Now how to prepare the interviewees - prepare them to articulate their
> work well. Not just what they do mechanically but why they are doing it
> and how they are doing it.
>
> Who is best suited to do this - organizational SEPG / Quality or an
> outside consultant. LA helping the people to articulate well is like the
> examiner leaking the paper in advance. And they may not do this. In my
> experience, they did not do this preparation. They may advise the
> organizational interface though.
>
> Best wishes
> Murali Chemuturi
> www.chemuturi. com <http://www.chemuturi.com>
> 91-40-27220771
> 91-0-98850-19461
> USA - 347-394-3138
>
> *From:* Jeff Dalton - Broadsword <mailto:jeff@Broadswordsolu tions.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:04 AM
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com>
> *Subject:* RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> Hmmmmm. While I ALMOST always agree with Pat, I’ll have to challenge,
> clarify, or question his response.
>
> Merely placing “how do you…” in front of each practice may not get you
> there. Processes are very localized – local words, local procedures,
> local language. In addition local process rarely has a 1:1 relationship
> with the model and it’s up to the LA/ATMs to make the connections. In
> my experience, most people who read the practices have no idea what the
> model is asking for – the model was authored by a committee so the
> language tends to be specific to the knowledge base of that group – not
> the local company planning on having the appraisal.
>
> I WOULD agree that if you place “how do you…” + [how you implemented one
> or more practices in the model] then it could work.
>
> Warm Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
> Jeff Dalton, President and CEO
>
> Broadsword
>
> Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
>
> CMMI Instructor, SCAMPI Team Leader Observer
>
> 248.341.3367 (office)
>
> 248.709.4775 (cell)
>
> 248.341.3672 (fax)
>
> broadswordlogo. tif
>
> Visit our website at http://www.broadswo rdsolutions. com
> <http://www.broadswo rdsolutions. com>
>
> Visit Jeff's blog at: http://www.asktheCM MIAppraiser. com
> <http://asktheCMMIAppraiser.blogspot.com>
>
> *From:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:cmmi_
> process_improvem ent@yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick OToole
> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 6:23 AM
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> *Subject:* Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> 
>
> Umesh,
>
> Just put the words, "Could you please tell us how you you..." in front
> of each practice and you'll have a pretty complete questionnaire.
>
> The other thing that I would HIGHLY recommend is that you don't START
> with a SCAMPI A. Conduct a Class B appraisal first, and have some of
> the folks go through the Class B interviews to get comfortable with the
> process.
>
> It is not a test. The appraisal team is just trying to understand how
> the work is performed on the projects. It should be more of a
> "dialogue" than an "interview."
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Pat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* umesh koli <mailto:umesh.koli@yahoo. co.in>
>
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com>
>
> *Cc:* umesh <mailto:koli.umesh@gmail. com>
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 1:05 AM
>
> *Subject:* [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Can any one share the Questionnaires fro SCAMPI - Appraisal, for
> ML-3 , Currently my Organisation is going for SCAMPI -A and i want
> to trained the Team who will be interviewed by ATM, As this is
> first experience for them to face SCAMPI - A.
>
> I looking for some question based on Process Area, so Team (FAR
> Group Member )will prepare them to answer.
>
> I search on Google but not able to find :(
>
> Please help me..........
>
> Regards
>
> Umesh koli
>
> SQA Lead
>
>
>
> From cricket scores to your friends. Try the Yahoo! India Homepage!
> <http://in.rd. yahoo.com/ tagline_metro_ 4/*http:/ in.yahoo. com/trynew>
>
>

--

Dr. Ralf Kneuper
Beratung fuer Softwarequalitaetsm anagement und Prozessverbesserung
SEI-certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC
iNTACS-certified ISO/IEC 15504 Principal Assessor

Philipp-Roeth- Weg 14 ralf@kneuper. de
D-64295 Darmstadt www.kneuper. de
Germany
Tel. +49-(0)173-3432005

PGP Public Key and Fingerprint: see www.kneuper. de/Kontakt/ pgp-key.html


#16722 From: <murali_chemuturi@...>
Date: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:14 am
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group
chemuturi
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Henry
 
Why the SCAMPI is conducted in English - it is a good question. But higher education, text books, government business, and commerce are conducted in English in India. Yep it causes communication problems and we just grin and bear it.
 
Why in English?
 
English was the language of the government for last two hundred years and it was not possible to replace it with any other language as India has 16 major languages (recognized by the government) and more than a hundred dialects. The most commonly understood language across the country still happens to be English. The standards of teaching English also leave much to be desired. The way a Hindi-speaking person speaks English is different from the way a Telugu-speaking person speaks English and so on. Most times, the LA, the appraisal team and the appraisees would all be from different language groups. There would no common mother tongue for all the involved people. All the concerned people speaking one mother tongue, is rather rare and is a Poisson distribution event, like floods and earth quakes. India is called a sub-continent for this reason - Babel of voices, races and cultures. Every religion you find any where in the world, is in India. That is where the problem of articulation comes in.
 
SCAMPI (be it A or B) costs lot of money. Most organizations do not spend so much money. They do not even employ a decent consultant. I am sure you have seen many requests on this forum for free material on which I sometimes commented attracting ridicule and downright abuse.
 
With best wishes
Murali Chemuturi
www.chemuturi.com
91-40-27220771
91-0-98850-19461
USA - 347-394-3138

Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:57 AM
Subject: RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

Dear Murali,

I have a question for you.  If English is not the mother language for the appraisal team and the organization, why is the appraisal being conducted in English?    That doesn’t make sense to me.  As far as I know, the only need for English associated with a SCAMPI appraisal is the Final Findings Presentation and the reporting of the results to the SEI.  It makes for a much better experience for everyone if the appraisal is conducted in the mother language and the results reported to the SEI in English.

I understand your point about a dry run.  That is one of the primary reasons why I recommend a SCAMPI B appraisal as a dress rehearsal for the SCAMPI A.  The SCAMPI B provides the interview experience without the added stress of level rating.  One problem that you might run into by holding internal dry runs for appraisal interviews is that the interviewees could  be coached on the “correct” answer and then be totally unprepared to answer questions that are different from what they have been trained to answer.

In my opinion, it is better for the organization to experience an appraisal first hand with a SCAMPI B rather than training people on how to answer questions.

Best Regards,
Henry Schneider

Henry Schneider
President/Senior Principal Consultant

http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/bg_bluegel_385x42.jpg

Work:  281-218-6682
Mobile:  832-628-2486

SEI_Partner_CMU_1Line_Black copy

SEI-Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser (CMMI-DEV, CMMI-ACQ, CMMI-SVC)

SEI-Certified High Maturity Lead Appraiser

SEI-Authorized Intro to CMMI Instructor

SEI-Authorized Acquisition Supplement for Intro to CMMI Instructor

SEI-Authorized Services Supplement for Intro to CMMI Instructor

Email:  henry@...
http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/icon_in_blue_14x14.gif 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/henryschneider

Video Handshake

Slightly Bigger PPQC logo gel

Process and Product Quality Consulting

Facilitating your process journey ...

See who we know in common

Want a signature like this? 

Visit the PPQC web site www.ppqc.net and read the PPQC blog PPQC.blogspot.com

From: murali_chemuturi@hotmail.com [mailto:murali_chemuturi@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:42 PM
To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

Dear Ralf

I have been out of town from 18th till date and hence the delay in my response.

I did not advocate preparing / training people for facing the interview. I only stated the need to prepare them to "articulate" their work properly.

You see, in India where English is not the mother tongue for the appraisal team as well as the appraisers, the communication gap is high. Both think in their mother tongues and then translate into English to communicate. Thus there is a large communication gap. Communication gap exists even when people communicate in their mother tongues.

Daily working becomes a routine. A project manager plans once and the regular daily chore is to allocate and de-allocate work; arrange quality assurance; troubleshoot issues; communicate with client; meetings with management and so on. Even for PMI certified PMs, the philosophy is relegated to background with the passage of time and the daily routine. Their communication is in cryptic and colloquial lingo. So it is necessary to prepare them to articulate well so that external people can understand properly. The preparation is for proper articulation; emphasizes on removing the colloquial language and expand the cryptic explanation to make it understandable for the external people. I suggested helping them to answer well. I did not advocate giving them a set of important questions (with answers as well) to prepare well.

Dry runs are common in the industry. When a sales rep goes for a presentation, he is made to go thru a dry run. When a faculty handles a new training session, a dry run is used to smoothen rough edges. I am sure that you have gone thru some dry runs. Dry runs are used when the stakes are high. In SCAMPI the stakes are certainly high.

I hope that this clarifies

Murali Chemuturi
www.chemuturi.com
91-40-27220771
91-0-98850-19461
USA - 347-394-3138

From: Ralf Kneuper

Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:42 PM

Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

Hi Murali,

Sorry but I have to disagree.

For developers etc there is no need to prepare for the interviews,
and it is not helpful to tell them in advance why they are doing their
work the way they do if they do not know anyhow.
Either they need to know this for their day-to-day work. In this case,
teaching them for the appraisal closely borders on trying to cheat -
and there is a certain probability that the lead appraiser will notice
and react accordingly.
Or the developers do not need to have such background for their
day-to-day work. In this case, teaching them for the appraisal is
a waste of time and resources.

What I usually tell interviewees (as part of the kickoff presentation)
is that the questions will be about their day-to-day work, and they
will usually know this anyhow, without preparation. Of course, they
will not usually be able to fluently describe the complete process,
but that is not a problem as long as they know their part in it.

Best regards
Ralf

murali_chemuturi@hotmail.com schrieb:
>
>
> I would like to add why this query has cropped up originally.
>
> Many technical people, while being very good at their work, often fail
> to articulate their assignment very well, especially in an interview
> where the stakes are high and the management is watching closely. They
> would like to articulate their assignment while at the same time, take
> care of organizational interests.
>
> Second, for them this appraisal is of second priority. As soon as the
> interview is over, they need to get back to delivering software to
> clients. They would not prepare well on their own. The primary
> responsibility to steer the organization thru SCAMPI often rests with
> the SEPG or quality group.
>
> Now how to prepare the interviewees - prepare them to articulate their
> work well. Not just what they do mechanically but why they are doing it
> and how they are doing it.
>
> Who is best suited to do this - organizational SEPG / Quality or an
> outside consultant. LA helping the people to articulate well is like the
> examiner leaking the paper in advance. And they may not do this. In my
> experience, they did not do this preparation. They may advise the
> organizational interface though.
>
> Best wishes
> Murali Chemuturi
> www.chemuturi. com <http://www.chemuturi.com>
> 91-40-27220771
> 91-0-98850-19461
> USA - 347-394-3138
>
> *From:* Jeff Dalton - Broadsword <mailto:jeff@Broadswordsolutions.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:04 AM
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>
> *Subject:* RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> Hmmmmm. While I ALMOST always agree with Pat, I’ll have to challenge,
> clarify, or question his response.
>
> Merely placing “how do you…” in front of each practice may not get you
> there. Processes are very localized – local words, local procedures,
> local language. In addition local process rarely has a 1:1 relationship
> with the model and it’s up to the LA/ATMs to make the connections. In
> my experience, most people who read the practices have no idea what the
> model is asking for – the model was authored by a committee so the
> language tends to be specific to the knowledge base of that group – not
> the local company planning on having the appraisal.
>
> I WOULD agree that if you place “how do you…” + [how you implemented one
> or more practices in the model] then it could work.
>
> Warm Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
> Jeff Dalton, President and CEO
>
> Broadsword
>
> Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
>
> CMMI Instructor, SCAMPI Team Leader Observer
>
> 248.341.3367 (office)
>
> 248.709.4775 (cell)
>
> 248.341.3672 (fax)
>
> broadswordlogo.tif
>
> Visit our website at http://www.broadswo rdsolutions. com
> <http://www.broadswordsolutions.com>
>
> Visit Jeff's blog at: http://www.asktheCM MIAppraiser. com
> <http://asktheCMMIAppraiser.blogspot.com>
>
> *From:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:cmmi_
> process_improvem ent@yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick OToole
> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 6:23 AM
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> *Subject:* Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> 
>
> Umesh,
>
> Just put the words, "Could you please tell us how you you..." in front
> of each practice and you'll have a pretty complete questionnaire.
>
> The other thing that I would HIGHLY recommend is that you don't START
> with a SCAMPI A. Conduct a Class B appraisal first, and have some of
> the folks go through the Class B interviews to get comfortable with the
> process.
>
> It is not a test. The appraisal team is just trying to understand how
> the work is performed on the projects. It should be more of a
> "dialogue" than an "interview."
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Pat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* umesh koli <mailto:umesh.koli@yahoo.co.in>
>
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>
>
> *Cc:* umesh <mailto:koli.umesh@gmail.com>
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 1:05 AM
>
> *Subject:* [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Can any one share the Questionnaires fro SCAMPI - Appraisal, for
> ML-3 , Currently my Organisation is going for SCAMPI -A and i want
> to trained the Team who will be interviewed by ATM, As this is
> first experience for them to face SCAMPI - A.
>
> I looking for some question based on Process Area, so Team (FAR
> Group Member )will prepare them to answer.
>
> I search on Google but not able to find :(
>
> Please help me..........
>
> Regards
>
> Umesh koli
>
> SQA Lead
>
>
>
> From cricket scores to your friends. Try the Yahoo! India Homepage!
> <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_metro_4/*http:/in.yahoo.com/trynew>
>
>

--

Dr. Ralf Kneuper
Beratung fuer Softwarequalitaetsmanagement und Prozessverbesserung
SEI-certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC
iNTACS-certified ISO/IEC 15504 Principal Assessor

Philipp-Roeth-Weg 14 ralf@kneuper.de
D-64295 Darmstadt www.kneuper.de
Germany
Tel. +49-(0)173-3432005

PGP Public Key and Fingerprint: see www.kneuper.de/Kontakt/pgp-key.html


#16723 From: "Donna Reed" <donna@...>
Date: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:03 am
Subject: WEBINAR - "Becoming Agile for Project Managers" with Greg Smith (12/2)
donnareed7
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Reserve your Webinar seat now at: http://ow.ly/Bz8T
 
In this interview with Greg Smith, author of "Becoming Agile in an imperfect world", we discuss WHEN, WHERE & HOW project managers can leverage and actually use Agile techniques to deal with...    
  • Compressed schedules
  • Changing requirements
  • Risk
  • and much more 
...in order to deliver what the customer actually needs.   
 
GAIN YOUR COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE BY BECOMING an AGILE PM !
 
PDU’s: 1
COST: Free
 
*** All who register will receive a link to the recording ***

#16724 From: "Henry Schneider | PPQC" <henry@...>
Date: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:21 am
Subject: RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group
astralingua
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

Thanks to all who commented on my email.  Not having had the privilege to conduct an appraisal in India, I was not aware of this language problem.  Given the explanations, I can certainly understand why English is chosen for the appraisal and why it is a problem in this situation.

Best Regards,
Henry Schneider

 

 

Henry Schneider
President/Senior Principal Consultant

http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/bg_bluegel_385x42.jpg

Work:  281-218-6682
Mobile:  832-628-2486

SEI_Partner_CMU_1Line_Black copy

SEI-Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser (CMMI-DEV, CMMI-ACQ, CMMI-SVC)

SEI-Certified High Maturity Lead Appraiser

SEI-Authorized Intro to CMMI Instructor

SEI-Authorized Acquisition Supplement for Intro to CMMI Instructor

SEI-Authorized Services Supplement for Intro to CMMI Instructor

Email:  henry@...
http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/icon_in_blue_14x14.gif 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/henryschneider

Video Handshake

Slightly Bigger PPQC logo gel

Process and Product Quality Consulting

Facilitating your process journey ...

See who we know in common

Want a signature like this? 

Visit the PPQC web site www.ppqc.net and read the PPQC blog PPQC.blogspot.com

 

From: murali_chemuturi@... [mailto:murali_chemuturi@...]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:15 PM
To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

 

Dear Henry

 

Why the SCAMPI is conducted in English - it is a good question. But higher education, text books, government business, and commerce are conducted in English in India. Yep it causes communication problems and we just grin and bear it.

 

Why in English?

 

English was the language of the government for last two hundred years and it was not possible to replace it with any other language as India has 16 major languages (recognized by the government) and more than a hundred dialects. The most commonly understood language across the country still happens to be English. The standards of teaching English also leave much to be desired. The way a Hindi-speaking person speaks English is different from the way a Telugu-speaking person speaks English and so on. Most times, the LA, the appraisal team and the appraisees would all be from different language groups. There would no common mother tongue for all the involved people. All the concerned people speaking one mother tongue, is rather rare and is a Poisson distribution event, like floods and earth quakes. India is called a sub-continent for this reason - Babel of voices, races and cultures. Every religion you find any where in the world, is in India. That is where the problem of articulation comes in.

 

SCAMPI (be it A or B) costs lot of money. Most organizations do not spend so much money. They do not even employ a decent consultant. I am sure you have seen many requests on this forum for free material on which I sometimes commented attracting ridicule and downright abuse.

 

With best wishes

Murali Chemuturi
www.chemuturi.com
91-40-27220771
91-0-98850-19461
USA - 347-394-3138

 

Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:57 AM

Subject: RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

 

Dear Murali,

I have a question for you.  If English is not the mother language for the appraisal team and the organization, why is the appraisal being conducted in English?    That doesn’t make sense to me.  As far as I know, the only need for English associated with a SCAMPI appraisal is the Final Findings Presentation and the reporting of the results to the SEI.  It makes for a much better experience for everyone if the appraisal is conducted in the mother language and the results reported to the SEI in English.

I understand your point about a dry run.  That is one of the primary reasons why I recommend a SCAMPI B appraisal as a dress rehearsal for the SCAMPI A.  The SCAMPI B provides the interview experience without the added stress of level rating.  One problem that you might run into by holding internal dry runs for appraisal interviews is that the interviewees could  be coached on the “correct” answer and then be totally unprepared to answer questions that are different from what they have been trained to answer.

In my opinion, it is better for the organization to experience an appraisal first hand with a SCAMPI B rather than training people on how to answer questions.

Best Regards,
Henry Schneider

Henry Schneider
President/Senior Principal Consultant

http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/bg_bluegel_385x42.jpg

Work:  281-218-6682
Mobile:  832-628-2486

SEI_Partner_CMU_1Line_Black copy

SEI-Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser (CMMI-DEV, CMMI-ACQ, CMMI-SVC)

SEI-Certified High Maturity Lead Appraiser

SEI-Authorized Intro to CMMI Instructor

SEI-Authorized Acquisition Supplement for Intro to CMMI Instructor

SEI-Authorized Services Supplement for Intro to CMMI Instructor

Email:  henry@...
http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/icon_in_blue_14x14.gif 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/henryschneider

Video Handshake

Slightly Bigger PPQC logo gel

Process and Product Quality Consulting

Facilitating your process journey ...

See who we know in common

Want a signature like this? 

Visit the PPQC web site www.ppqc.net and read the PPQC blog PPQC.blogspot.com

From: murali_chemuturi@... [mailto:murali_chemuturi@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:42 PM
To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

Dear Ralf

I have been out of town from 18th till date and hence the delay in my response.

I did not advocate preparing / training people for facing the interview. I only stated the need to prepare them to "articulate" their work properly.

You see, in India where English is not the mother tongue for the appraisal team as well as the appraisers, the communication gap is high. Both think in their mother tongues and then translate into English to communicate. Thus there is a large communication gap. Communication gap exists even when people communicate in their mother tongues.

Daily working becomes a routine. A project manager plans once and the regular daily chore is to allocate and de-allocate work; arrange quality assurance; troubleshoot issues; communicate with client; meetings with management and so on. Even for PMI certified PMs, the philosophy is relegated to background with the passage of time and the daily routine. Their communication is in cryptic and colloquial lingo. So it is necessary to prepare them to articulate well so that external people can understand properly. The preparation is for proper articulation; emphasizes on removing the colloquial language and expand the cryptic explanation to make it understandable for the external people. I suggested helping them to answer well. I did not advocate giving them a set of important questions (with answers as well) to prepare well.

Dry runs are common in the industry. When a sales rep goes for a presentation, he is made to go thru a dry run. When a faculty handles a new training session, a dry run is used to smoothen rough edges. I am sure that you have gone thru some dry runs. Dry runs are used when the stakes are high. In SCAMPI the stakes are certainly high.

I hope that this clarifies

Murali Chemuturi
www.chemuturi.com
91-40-27220771
91-0-98850-19461
USA - 347-394-3138

From: Ralf Kneuper

Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:42 PM

Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

Hi Murali,

Sorry but I have to disagree.

For developers etc there is no need to prepare for the interviews,
and it is not helpful to tell them in advance why they are doing their
work the way they do if they do not know anyhow.
Either they need to know this for their day-to-day work. In this case,
teaching them for the appraisal closely borders on trying to cheat -
and there is a certain probability that the lead appraiser will notice
and react accordingly.
Or the developers do not need to have such background for their
day-to-day work. In this case, teaching them for the appraisal is
a waste of time and resources.

What I usually tell interviewees (as part of the kickoff presentation)
is that the questions will be about their day-to-day work, and they
will usually know this anyhow, without preparation. Of course, they
will not usually be able to fluently describe the complete process,
but that is not a problem as long as they know their part in it.

Best regards
Ralf

murali_chemuturi@... schrieb:
>
>
> I would like to add why this query has cropped up originally.
>
> Many technical people, while being very good at their work, often fail
> to articulate their assignment very well, especially in an interview
> where the stakes are high and the management is watching closely. They
> would like to articulate their assignment while at the same time, take
> care of organizational interests.
>
> Second, for them this appraisal is of second priority. As soon as the
> interview is over, they need to get back to delivering software to
> clients. They would not prepare well on their own. The primary
> responsibility to steer the organization thru SCAMPI often rests with
> the SEPG or quality group.
>
> Now how to prepare the interviewees - prepare them to articulate their
> work well. Not just what they do mechanically but why they are doing it
> and how they are doing it.
>
> Who is best suited to do this - organizational SEPG / Quality or an
> outside consultant. LA helping the people to articulate well is like the
> examiner leaking the paper in advance. And they may not do this. In my
> experience, they did not do this preparation. They may advise the
> organizational interface though.
>
> Best wishes
> Murali Chemuturi
> www.chemuturi. com <http://www.chemuturi.com>
> 91-40-27220771
> 91-0-98850-19461
> USA - 347-394-3138
>
> *From:* Jeff Dalton - Broadsword <mailto:jeff@...>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:04 AM
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>
> *Subject:* RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> Hmmmmm. While I ALMOST always agree with Pat, I’ll have to challenge,
> clarify, or question his response.
>
> Merely placing “how do you…” in front of each practice may not get you
> there. Processes are very localized – local words, local procedures,
> local language. In addition local process rarely has a 1:1 relationship
> with the model and it’s up to the LA/ATMs to make the connections. In
> my experience, most people who read the practices have no idea what the
> model is asking for – the model was authored by a committee so the
> language tends to be specific to the knowledge base of that group – not
> the local company planning on having the appraisal.
>
> I WOULD agree that if you place “how do you…” + [how you implemented one
> or more practices in the model] then it could work.
>
> Warm Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
> Jeff Dalton, President and CEO
>
> Broadsword
>
> Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
>
> CMMI Instructor, SCAMPI Team Leader Observer
>
> 248.341.3367 (office)
>
> 248.709.4775 (cell)
>
> 248.341.3672 (fax)
>
> broadswordlogo.tif
>
> Visit our website at http://www.broadswo rdsolutions. com
> <http://www.broadswordsolutions.com>
>
> Visit Jeff's blog at: http://www.asktheCM MIAppraiser. com
> <http://asktheCMMIAppraiser.blogspot.com>
>
> *From:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:cmmi_
> process_improvem ent@yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick OToole
> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 6:23 AM
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> *Subject:* Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> 
>
> Umesh,
>
> Just put the words, "Could you please tell us how you you..." in front
> of each practice and you'll have a pretty complete questionnaire.
>
> The other thing that I would HIGHLY recommend is that you don't START
> with a SCAMPI A. Conduct a Class B appraisal first, and have some of
> the folks go through the Class B interviews to get comfortable with the
> process.
>
> It is not a test. The appraisal team is just trying to understand how
> the work is performed on the projects. It should be more of a
> "dialogue" than an "interview."
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Pat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* umesh koli <mailto:umesh.koli@...>
>
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>
>
> *Cc:* umesh <mailto:koli.umesh@...>
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 1:05 AM
>
> *Subject:* [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Can any one share the Questionnaires fro SCAMPI - Appraisal, for
> ML-3 , Currently my Organisation is going for SCAMPI -A and i want
> to trained the Team who will be interviewed by ATM, As this is
> first experience for them to face SCAMPI - A.
>
> I looking for some question based on Process Area, so Team (FAR
> Group Member )will prepare them to answer.
>
> I search on Google but not able to find :(
>
> Please help me..........
>
> Regards
>
> Umesh koli
>
> SQA Lead
>
>
>
> From cricket scores to your friends. Try the Yahoo! India Homepage!
> <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_metro_4/*http:/in.yahoo.com/trynew>
>
>

--

Dr. Ralf Kneuper
Beratung fuer Softwarequalitaetsmanagement und Prozessverbesserung
SEI-certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC
iNTACS-certified ISO/IEC 15504 Principal Assessor

Philipp-Roeth-Weg 14 ralf@...
D-64295 Darmstadt www.kneuper.de
Germany
Tel. +49-(0)173-3432005

PGP Public Key and Fingerprint: see www.kneuper.de/Kontakt/pgp-key.html


#16725 From: Dalia Adel <daliaadel12@...>
Date: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:36 am
Subject: Effort estimation method
daliaadel12
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear all,
 
kindly I want to ask about effort estimation method  that can be used easily and effectively as we use case point but it seems to be ineffective.
 
please if anyone can suggest a method and attach a template for using it I will be very thankful to him/her. 
Thanks in advance
Best regards
Dalia Adel


#16726 From: Chris Simon <simon26sez@...>
Date: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:21 am
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group
simon26sez
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello Murali,
 
I think the problem you are facing is hard to understand unless faced.
 
My recommendation is to train your team in a gradual and methodical manner. I realize this can be a problem when time is a constraint. However, teaching them to "parrot" with a set of questions may not be the right approach. There was an earlier post which did indicate the importance of relating CMMI framework with the process and the task that they do. I agree with that idea.
 
If this is part of trainings in your training plans, it will only make your CMMI implementation stable and scalable over time. I am sure you will already have a plan to roll out changes or process updates. Having a short term plan to get the current crop upto speed will help.
 
In any case, if there are differences in the understanding of LA based on "communication gap", the appraisal methodology gives enough time to clarify these differences. If you are ready for appraisal and prepared for it the right way, i dont think the communication gap will result in anything that cannot be clarified during these sessions.
 
Finally, dry runs are a great idea and I think it only makes things easier during appraisals, but I dont think people should say what they are taught to say. They have to express what they do in a manner that is understood. If the training is towards that end, then I think you will see that you are well equipped to deal with this situation if you are familiar with the framework and processes in your organization.
 
Good Luck
 
Chris

--- On Tue, 24/11/09, Andres Susarret <andres_personal@...> wrote:

From: Andres Susarret <andres_personal@...>
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group
To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, 24 November, 2009, 2:26 AM

 
Henry --

English is not the "mother language" in India but it is the language of business there.  Having a lot of colleagues in India, I can appreciate the complexity of Murali's dilemma.

Thanks,

-andres


From: Henry Schneider | PPQC <henry@...>
To: cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sun, November 22, 2009 10:27:06 PM
Subject: RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

Dear Murali,

I have a question for you.  If English is not the mother language for the appraisal team and the organization, why is the appraisal being conducted in English?    That doesn’t make sense to me.  As far as I know, the only need for English associated with a SCAMPI appraisal is the Final Findings Presentation and the reporting of the results to the SEI.  It makes for a much better experience for everyone if the appraisal is conducted in the mother language and the results reported to the SEI in English.

 

I understand your point about a dry run.  That is one of the primary reasons why I recommend a SCAMPI B appraisal as a dress rehearsal for the SCAMPI A.  The SCAMPI B provides the interview experience without the added stress of level rating.  One problem that you might run into by holding internal dry runs for appraisal interviews is that the interviewees could  be coached on the “correct” answer and then be totally unprepared to answer questions that are different from what they have been trained to answer.

 

In my opinion, it is better for the organization to experience an appraisal first hand with a SCAMPI B rather than training people on how to answer questions.

 

Best Regards,
Henry Schneider

 

 

 

 

Henry Schneider
President/Senior Principal Consultant

http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/bg_bluegel_385x42.jpg

Work:  281-218-6682
Mobile:  832-628-2486

SEI_Partner_CMU_1Line_Black copy

SEI-Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser (CMMI-DEV, CMMI-ACQ, CMMI-SVC)

SEI-Certified High Maturity Lead Appraiser

SEI-Authorized Intro to CMMI Instructor

SEI-Authorized Acquisition Supplement for Intro to CMMI Instructor

SEI-Authorized Services Supplement for Intro to CMMI Instructor

Email:  henry@...
http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/icon_in_blue_14x14.gif 
http://www.linkedin .com/in/henrysch neider

Video Handshake

Slightly Bigger PPQC logo gel

Process and Product Quality Consulting

Facilitating your process journey ...

See who we know in common

Want a signature like this? 

Visit the PPQC web site www.ppqc.net and read the PPQC blog PPQC.blogspot. com

 

From: murali_chemuturi@ hotmail.com [mailto:murali_ chemuturi@ hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:42 PM
To: cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

 

Dear Ralf

 

I have been out of town from 18th till date and hence the delay in my response.

 

I did not advocate preparing / training people for facing the interview. I only stated the need to prepare them to "articulate" their work properly.

 

You see, in India where English is not the mother tongue for the appraisal team as well as the appraisers, the communication gap is high. Both think in their mother tongues and then translate into English to communicate. Thus there is a large communication gap. Communication gap exists even when people communicate in their mother tongues.

 

Daily working becomes a routine. A project manager plans once and the regular daily chore is to allocate and de-allocate work; arrange quality assurance; troubleshoot issues; communicate with client; meetings with management and so on. Even for PMI certified PMs, the philosophy is relegated to background with the passage of time and the daily routine. Their communication is in cryptic and colloquial lingo. So it is necessary to prepare them to articulate well so that external people can understand properly. The preparation is for proper articulation; emphasizes on removing the colloquial language and expand the cryptic explanation to make it understandable for the external people. I suggested helping them to answer well. I did not advocate giving them a set of important questions (with answers as well) to prepare well.

 

Dry runs are common in the industry. When a sales rep goes for a presentation, he is made to go thru a dry run. When a faculty handles a new training session, a dry run is used to smoothen rough edges. I am sure that you have gone thru some dry runs. Dry runs are used when the stakes are high. In SCAMPI the stakes are certainly high.

 

I hope that this clarifies

 

Murali Chemuturi
www.chemuturi. com
91-40-27220771
91-0-98850-19461
USA - 347-394-3138

 

From: Ralf Kneuper

Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:42 PM

Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

 

Hi Murali,

Sorry but I have to disagree.

For developers etc there is no need to prepare for the interviews,
and it is not helpful to tell them in advance why they are doing their
work the way they do if they do not know anyhow.
Either they need to know this for their day-to-day work. In this case,
teaching them for the appraisal closely borders on trying to cheat -
and there is a certain probability that the lead appraiser will notice
and react accordingly.
Or the developers do not need to have such background for their
day-to-day work. In this case, teaching them for the appraisal is
a waste of time and resources.

What I usually tell interviewees (as part of the kickoff presentation)
is that the questions will be about their day-to-day work, and they
will usually know this anyhow, without preparation. Of course, they
will not usually be able to fluently describe the complete process,
but that is not a problem as long as they know their part in it.

Best regards
Ralf

murali_chemuturi@ hotmail.com schrieb:
>
>
> I would like to add why this query has cropped up originally.
>
> Many technical people, while being very good at their work, often fail
> to articulate their assignment very well, especially in an interview
> where the stakes are high and the management is watching closely. They
> would like to articulate their assignment while at the same time, take
> care of organizational interests.
>
> Second, for them this appraisal is of second priority. As soon as the
> interview is over, they need to get back to delivering software to
> clients. They would not prepare well on their own. The primary
> responsibility to steer the organization thru SCAMPI often rests with
> the SEPG or quality group.
>
> Now how to prepare the interviewees - prepare them to articulate their
> work well. Not just what they do mechanically but why they are doing it
> and how they are doing it.
>
> Who is best suited to do this - organizational SEPG / Quality or an
> outside consultant. LA helping the people to articulate well is like the
> examiner leaking the paper in advance. And they may not do this. In my
> experience, they did not do this preparation. They may advise the
> organizational interface though.
>
> Best wishes
> Murali Chemuturi
> www.chemuturi. com <http://www.chemutur i.com>
> 91-40-27220771
> 91-0-98850-19461
> USA - 347-394-3138
>
> *From:* Jeff Dalton - Broadsword <mailto:jeff@Broadswordsolu tions.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:04 AM
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com>
> *Subject:* RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> Hmmmmm. While I ALMOST always agree with Pat, I’ll have to challenge,
> clarify, or question his response.
>
> Merely placing “how do you…” in front of each practice may not get you
> there. Processes are very localized – local words, local procedures,
> local language. In addition local process rarely has a 1:1 relationship
> with the model and it’s up to the LA/ATMs to make the connections. In
> my experience, most people who read the practices have no idea what the
> model is asking for – the model was authored by a committee so the
> language tends to be specific to the knowledge base of that group – not
> the local company planning on having the appraisal.
>
> I WOULD agree that if you place “how do you…” + [how you implemented one
> or more practices in the model] then it could work.
>
> Warm Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
> Jeff Dalton, President and CEO
>
> Broadsword
>
> Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
>
> CMMI Instructor, SCAMPI Team Leader Observer
>
> 248.341.3367 (office)
>
> 248.709.4775 (cell)
>
> 248.341.3672 (fax)
>
> broadswordlogo. tif
>
> Visit our website at http://www.broadswo rdsolutions. com
> <http://www.broadswo rdsolutions. com>
>
> Visit Jeff's blog at: http://www.asktheCM MIAppraiser. com
> <http://asktheCMMIAp praiser.blogspot .com>
>
> *From:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:cmmi_
> process_improvem ent@yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick OToole
> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 6:23 AM
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> *Subject:* Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> 
>
> Umesh,
>
> Just put the words, "Could you please tell us how you you..." in front
> of each practice and you'll have a pretty complete questionnaire.
>
> The other thing that I would HIGHLY recommend is that you don't START
> with a SCAMPI A. Conduct a Class B appraisal first, and have some of
> the folks go through the Class B interviews to get comfortable with the
> process.
>
> It is not a test. The appraisal team is just trying to understand how
> the work is performed on the projects. It should be more of a
> "dialogue" than an "interview."
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Pat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* umesh koli <mailto:umesh.koli@yahoo. co.in>
>
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com>
>
> *Cc:* umesh <mailto:koli.umesh@gmail. com>
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 1:05 AM
>
> *Subject:* [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Can any one share the Questionnaires fro SCAMPI - Appraisal, for
> ML-3 , Currently my Organisation is going for SCAMPI -A and i want
> to trained the Team who will be interviewed by ATM, As this is
> first experience for them to face SCAMPI - A.
>
> I looking for some question based on Process Area, so Team (FAR
> Group Member )will prepare them to answer.
>
> I search on Google but not able to find :(
>
> Please help me..........
>
> Regards
>
> Umesh koli
>
> SQA Lead
>
>
>
> From cricket scores to your friends. Try the Yahoo! India Homepage!
> <http://in.rd. yahoo.com/ tagline_metro_ 4/*http:/ in.yahoo. com/trynew>
>
>

--

Dr. Ralf Kneuper
Beratung fuer Softwarequalitaetsm anagement und Prozessverbesserung
SEI-certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC
iNTACS-certified ISO/IEC 15504 Principal Assessor

Philipp-Roeth- Weg 14 ralf@kneuper. de
D-64295 Darmstadt www.kneuper. de
Germany
Tel. +49-(0)173-3432005

PGP Public Key and Fingerprint: see www.kneuper. de/Kontakt/ pgp-key.html



The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

#16727 From: Thomas Vaidyan <thomas.sqa@...>
Date: Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:38 am
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group
thomas_vaidyan
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi,

I have attended 4 SCAMP A appraisal till now. All the 4 appraisals has been done by different LA's. The questions i faced is different from each others. According to my experience there is no use of preparation for the appraisal as the questions we prepare may not be asked by the LA/ATM's. Most of the questions asked to me is related to my job activities and from the evidences we have provided during the initial review. Also what I heard from my consultants is that if am not able to answer the question in English i can answer in my mother tongue and the ATM's will translate it to the LA.

Regards
Thomas



On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Henry Schneider | PPQC <henry@...> wrote:
 

Dear Murali,

I have a question for you.  If English is not the mother language for the appraisal team and the organization, why is the appraisal being conducted in English?    That doesn’t make sense to me.  As far as I know, the only need for English associated with a SCAMPI appraisal is the Final Findings Presentation and the reporting of the results to the SEI.  It makes for a much better experience for everyone if the appraisal is conducted in the mother language and the results reported to the SEI in English.

 

I understand your point about a dry run.  That is one of the primary reasons why I recommend a SCAMPI B appraisal as a dress rehearsal for the SCAMPI A.  The SCAMPI B provides the interview experience without the added stress of level rating.  One problem that you might run into by holding internal dry runs for appraisal interviews is that the interviewees could  be coached on the “correct” answer and then be totally unprepared to answer questions that are different from what they have been trained to answer.

 

In my opinion, it is better for the organization to experience an appraisal first hand with a SCAMPI B rather than training people on how to answer questions.

 

Best Regards,
Henry Schneider

 

 

 

 

Henry Schneider
President/Senior Principal Consultant

http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/bg_bluegel_385x42.jpg

Work:  281-218-6682
Mobile:  832-628-2486

SEI_Partner_CMU_1Line_Black copy

SEI-Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser (CMMI-DEV, CMMI-ACQ, CMMI-SVC)

SEI-Certified High Maturity Lead Appraiser

SEI-Authorized Intro to CMMI Instructor

SEI-Authorized Acquisition Supplement for Intro to CMMI Instructor

SEI-Authorized Services Supplement for Intro to CMMI Instructor

Email:  henry@...
http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/icon_in_blue_14x14.gif 
http://www.linkedin.com/in/henryschneider

Video Handshake

Slightly Bigger PPQC logo gel

Process and Product Quality Consulting

Facilitating your process journey ...

See who we know in common

Want a signature like this? 

Visit the PPQC web site www.ppqc.net and read the PPQC blog PPQC.blogspot.com

 

From: murali_chemuturi@... [mailto:murali_chemuturi@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:42 PM


To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

 

Dear Ralf

 

I have been out of town from 18th till date and hence the delay in my response.

 

I did not advocate preparing / training people for facing the interview. I only stated the need to prepare them to "articulate" their work properly.

 

You see, in India where English is not the mother tongue for the appraisal team as well as the appraisers, the communication gap is high. Both think in their mother tongues and then translate into English to communicate. Thus there is a large communication gap. Communication gap exists even when people communicate in their mother tongues.

 

Daily working becomes a routine. A project manager plans once and the regular daily chore is to allocate and de-allocate work; arrange quality assurance; troubleshoot issues; communicate with client; meetings with management and so on. Even for PMI certified PMs, the philosophy is relegated to background with the passage of time and the daily routine. Their communication is in cryptic and colloquial lingo. So it is necessary to prepare them to articulate well so that external people can understand properly. The preparation is for proper articulation; emphasizes on removing the colloquial language and expand the cryptic explanation to make it understandable for the external people. I suggested helping them to answer well. I did not advocate giving them a set of important questions (with answers as well) to prepare well.

 

Dry runs are common in the industry. When a sales rep goes for a presentation, he is made to go thru a dry run. When a faculty handles a new training session, a dry run is used to smoothen rough edges. I am sure that you have gone thru some dry runs. Dry runs are used when the stakes are high. In SCAMPI the stakes are certainly high.

 

I hope that this clarifies

 

Murali Chemuturi
www.chemuturi.com
91-40-27220771
91-0-98850-19461
USA - 347-394-3138

 

From: Ralf Kneuper

Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:42 PM

Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

 

Hi Murali,

Sorry but I have to disagree.

For developers etc there is no need to prepare for the interviews,
and it is not helpful to tell them in advance why they are doing their
work the way they do if they do not know anyhow.
Either they need to know this for their day-to-day work. In this case,
teaching them for the appraisal closely borders on trying to cheat -
and there is a certain probability that the lead appraiser will notice
and react accordingly.
Or the developers do not need to have such background for their
day-to-day work. In this case, teaching them for the appraisal is
a waste of time and resources.

What I usually tell interviewees (as part of the kickoff presentation)
is that the questions will be about their day-to-day work, and they
will usually know this anyhow, without preparation. Of course, they
will not usually be able to fluently describe the complete process,
but that is not a problem as long as they know their part in it.

Best regards
Ralf

murali_chemuturi@... schrieb:
>
>
> I would like to add why this query has cropped up originally.
>
> Many technical people, while being very good at their work, often fail
> to articulate their assignment very well, especially in an interview
> where the stakes are high and the management is watching closely. They
> would like to articulate their assignment while at the same time, take
> care of organizational interests.
>
> Second, for them this appraisal is of second priority. As soon as the
> interview is over, they need to get back to delivering software to
> clients. They would not prepare well on their own. The primary
> responsibility to steer the organization thru SCAMPI often rests with
> the SEPG or quality group.
>
> Now how to prepare the interviewees - prepare them to articulate their
> work well. Not just what they do mechanically but why they are doing it
> and how they are doing it.
>
> Who is best suited to do this - organizational SEPG / Quality or an
> outside consultant. LA helping the people to articulate well is like the
> examiner leaking the paper in advance. And they may not do this. In my
> experience, they did not do this preparation. They may advise the
> organizational interface though.
>
> Best wishes
> Murali Chemuturi
> www.chemuturi. com <http://www.chemuturi.com>
> 91-40-27220771
> 91-0-98850-19461
> USA - 347-394-3138
>
> *From:* Jeff Dalton - Broadsword <mailto:jeff@...>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:04 AM
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>
> *Subject:* RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> Hmmmmm. While I ALMOST always agree with Pat, I’ll have to challenge,
> clarify, or question his response.
>
> Merely placing “how do you…” in front of each practice may not get you
> there. Processes are very localized – local words, local procedures,
> local language. In addition local process rarely has a 1:1 relationship
> with the model and it’s up to the LA/ATMs to make the connections. In
> my experience, most people who read the practices have no idea what the
> model is asking for – the model was authored by a committee so the
> language tends to be specific to the knowledge base of that group – not
> the local company planning on having the appraisal.
>
> I WOULD agree that if you place “how do you…” + [how you implemented one
> or more practices in the model] then it could work.
>
> Warm Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
> Jeff Dalton, President and CEO
>
> Broadsword
>
> Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
>
> CMMI Instructor, SCAMPI Team Leader Observer
>
> 248.341.3367 (office)
>
> 248.709.4775 (cell)
>
> 248.341.3672 (fax)
>
> broadswordlogo.tif
>
> Visit our website at http://www.broadswo rdsolutions. com
> <http://www.broadswordsolutions.com>
>
> Visit Jeff's blog at: http://www.asktheCM MIAppraiser. com
> <http://asktheCMMIAppraiser.blogspot.com>
>
> *From:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:cmmi_
> process_improvem ent@yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick OToole
> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 6:23 AM
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> *Subject:* Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> 
>
> Umesh,
>
> Just put the words, "Could you please tell us how you you..." in front
> of each practice and you'll have a pretty complete questionnaire.
>
> The other thing that I would HIGHLY recommend is that you don't START
> with a SCAMPI A. Conduct a Class B appraisal first, and have some of
> the folks go through the Class B interviews to get comfortable with the
> process.
>
> It is not a test. The appraisal team is just trying to understand how
> the work is performed on the projects. It should be more of a
> "dialogue" than an "interview."
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Pat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* umesh koli <mailto:umesh.koli@...>
>
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com>
>
> *Cc:* umesh <mailto:koli.umesh@...>
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 1:05 AM
>
> *Subject:* [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Can any one share the Questionnaires fro SCAMPI - Appraisal, for
> ML-3 , Currently my Organisation is going for SCAMPI -A and i want
> to trained the Team who will be interviewed by ATM, As this is
> first experience for them to face SCAMPI - A.
>
> I looking for some question based on Process Area, so Team (FAR
> Group Member )will prepare them to answer.
>
> I search on Google but not able to find :(
>
> Please help me..........
>
> Regards
>
> Umesh koli
>
> SQA Lead
>
>
>
> From cricket scores to your friends. Try the Yahoo! India Homepage!
> <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_metro_4/*http:/in.yahoo.com/trynew>
>
>

--

Dr. Ralf Kneuper
Beratung fuer Softwarequalitaetsmanagement und Prozessverbesserung
SEI-certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC
iNTACS-certified ISO/IEC 15504 Principal Assessor

Philipp-Roeth-Weg 14 ralf@...
D-64295 Darmstadt www.kneuper.de
Germany
Tel. +49-(0)173-3432005

PGP Public Key and Fingerprint: see www.kneuper.de/Kontakt/pgp-key.html



#16728 From: "vijay" <thesoulstealer@...>
Date: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:27 am
Subject: Project Closure and CMMI
thesoulstealer
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi all,
I have been looking at various aspects of CMMI and a typical administrative
start and closure of a project and found it difficult to attribute project
closure activities within CMMI.

I also discovered that PMBOK addresses the project start and closure better than
CMMI. (For example - page 26 of Real process improvement using the CMMI By
Michael West)

I wanted to know your perspective of how you have tied CMMI and Project Closure.

Regards,
VB

#16729 From: <murali_chemuturi@...>
Date: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:53 pm
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group
chemuturi
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Chris
 
Obviously you joined the thread very very late!
 
I do not have a problem. Also, I am not steering any organization thru SCAMPI in the near future. Umesh posted a question (you can see that at the bottom of this mail) and I responded with an explanation of  why that question cropped up. Then it became a philosophical discussion with others chipping in.
 
Murali Chemuturi
www.chemuturi.com
91-40-27220771
91-0-98850-19461
USA - 347-394-3138

Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

Hello Murali,
 
I think the problem you are facing is hard to understand unless faced.
 
My recommendation is to train your team in a gradual and methodical manner. I realize this can be a problem when time is a constraint. However, teaching them to "parrot" with a set of questions may not be the right approach. There was an earlier post which did indicate the importance of relating CMMI framework with the process and the task that they do. I agree with that idea.
 
If this is part of trainings in your training plans, it will only make your CMMI implementation stable and scalable over time. I am sure you will already have a plan to roll out changes or process updates. Having a short term plan to get the current crop upto speed will help.
 
In any case, if there are differences in the understanding of LA based on "communication gap", the appraisal methodology gives enough time to clarify these differences. If you are ready for appraisal and prepared for it the right way, i dont think the communication gap will result in anything that cannot be clarified during these sessions.
 
Finally, dry runs are a great idea and I think it only makes things easier during appraisals, but I dont think people should say what they are taught to say. They have to express what they do in a manner that is understood. If the training is towards that end, then I think you will see that you are well equipped to deal with this situation if you are familiar with the framework and processes in your organization.
 
Good Luck
 
Chris

--- On Tue, 24/11/09, Andres Susarret <andres_personal@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Andres Susarret <andres_personal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group
To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, 24 November, 2009, 2:26 AM

 
Henry --

English is not the "mother language" in India but it is the language of business there.  Having a lot of colleagues in India, I can appreciate the complexity of Murali's dilemma.

Thanks,

-andres


From: Henry Schneider | PPQC <henry@...>
To: cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sun, November 22, 2009 10:27:06 PM
Subject: RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

Dear Murali,

I have a question for you.  If English is not the mother language for the appraisal team and the organization, why is the appraisal being conducted in English?    That doesn’t make sense to me.  As far as I know, the only need for English associated with a SCAMPI appraisal is the Final Findings Presentation and the reporting of the results to the SEI.  It makes for a much better experience for everyone if the appraisal is conducted in the mother language and the results reported to the SEI in English.

 

I understand your point about a dry run.  That is one of the primary reasons why I recommend a SCAMPI B appraisal as a dress rehearsal for the SCAMPI A.  The SCAMPI B provides the interview experience without the added stress of level rating.  One problem that you might run into by holding internal dry runs for appraisal interviews is that the interviewees could  be coached on the “correct” answer and then be totally unprepared to answer questions that are different from what they have been trained to answer.

 

In my opinion, it is better for the organization to experience an appraisal first hand with a SCAMPI B rather than training people on how to answer questions.

 

Best Regards,
Henry Schneider

 

Henry Schneider
President/Senior Principal Consultant

http://www.linkedin.com/img/signature/bg_bluegel_385x42.jpg

Work:  281-218-6682
Mobile:  832-628-2486

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SEI-Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser (CMMI-DEV, CMMI-ACQ, CMMI-SVC)

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From: murali_chemuturi@ hotmail.com [mailto:murali_ chemuturi@ hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 9:42 PM
To: cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

Dear Ralf

 

I have been out of town from 18th till date and hence the delay in my response.

 

I did not advocate preparing / training people for facing the interview. I only stated the need to prepare them to "articulate" their work properly.

 

You see, in India where English is not the mother tongue for the appraisal team as well as the appraisers, the communication gap is high. Both think in their mother tongues and then translate into English to communicate. Thus there is a large communication gap. Communication gap exists even when people communicate in their mother tongues.

 

Daily working becomes a routine. A project manager plans once and the regular daily chore is to allocate and de-allocate work; arrange quality assurance; troubleshoot issues; communicate with client; meetings with management and so on. Even for PMI certified PMs, the philosophy is relegated to background with the passage of time and the daily routine. Their communication is in cryptic and colloquial lingo. So it is necessary to prepare them to articulate well so that external people can understand properly. The preparation is for proper articulation; emphasizes on removing the colloquial language and expand the cryptic explanation to make it understandable for the external people. I suggested helping them to answer well. I did not advocate giving them a set of important questions (with answers as well) to prepare well.

 

Dry runs are common in the industry. When a sales rep goes for a presentation, he is made to go thru a dry run. When a faculty handles a new training session, a dry run is used to smoothen rough edges. I am sure that you have gone thru some dry runs. Dry runs are used when the stakes are high. In SCAMPI the stakes are certainly high.

 

I hope that this clarifies

 

Murali Chemuturi
www.chemuturi. com
91-40-27220771
91-0-98850-19461
USA - 347-394-3138

 

From: Ralf Kneuper

Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 8:42 PM

Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question For FAR Group

 

Hi Murali,

Sorry but I have to disagree.

For developers etc there is no need to prepare for the interviews,
and it is not helpful to tell them in advance why they are doing their
work the way they do if they do not know anyhow.
Either they need to know this for their day-to-day work. In this case,
teaching them for the appraisal closely borders on trying to cheat -
and there is a certain probability that the lead appraiser will notice
and react accordingly.
Or the developers do not need to have such background for their
day-to-day work. In this case, teaching them for the appraisal is
a waste of time and resources.

What I usually tell interviewees (as part of the kickoff presentation)
is that the questions will be about their day-to-day work, and they
will usually know this anyhow, without preparation. Of course, they
will not usually be able to fluently describe the complete process,
but that is not a problem as long as they know their part in it.

Best regards
Ralf

murali_chemuturi@ hotmail.com schrieb:
>
>
> I would like to add why this query has cropped up originally.
>
> Many technical people, while being very good at their work, often fail
> to articulate their assignment very well, especially in an interview
> where the stakes are high and the management is watching closely. They
> would like to articulate their assignment while at the same time, take
> care of organizational interests.
>
> Second, for them this appraisal is of second priority. As soon as the
> interview is over, they need to get back to delivering software to
> clients. They would not prepare well on their own. The primary
> responsibility to steer the organization thru SCAMPI often rests with
> the SEPG or quality group.
>
> Now how to prepare the interviewees - prepare them to articulate their
> work well. Not just what they do mechanically but why they are doing it
> and how they are doing it.
>
> Who is best suited to do this - organizational SEPG / Quality or an
> outside consultant. LA helping the people to articulate well is like the
> examiner leaking the paper in advance. And they may not do this. In my
> experience, they did not do this preparation. They may advise the
> organizational interface though.
>
> Best wishes
> Murali Chemuturi
> www.chemuturi. com <http://www.chemutur i.com>
> 91-40-27220771
> 91-0-98850-19461
> USA - 347-394-3138
>
> *From:* Jeff Dalton - Broadsword <mailto:jeff@Broadswordsolu tions.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:04 AM
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com>
> *Subject:* RE: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> Hmmmmm. While I ALMOST always agree with Pat, I’ll have to challenge,
> clarify, or question his response.
>
> Merely placing “how do you…” in front of each practice may not get you
> there. Processes are very localized – local words, local procedures,
> local language. In addition local process rarely has a 1:1 relationship
> with the model and it’s up to the LA/ATMs to make the connections. In
> my experience, most people who read the practices have no idea what the
> model is asking for – the model was authored by a committee so the
> language tends to be specific to the knowledge base of that group – not
> the local company planning on having the appraisal.
>
> I WOULD agree that if you place “how do you…” + [how you implemented one
> or more practices in the model] then it could work.
>
> Warm Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
> Jeff Dalton, President and CEO
>
> Broadsword
>
> Certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser
>
> CMMI Instructor, SCAMPI Team Leader Observer
>
> 248.341.3367 (office)
>
> 248.709.4775 (cell)
>
> 248.341.3672 (fax)
>
> broadswordlogo. tif
>
> Visit our website at http://www.broadswo rdsolutions. com
> <http://www.broadswo rdsolutions. com>
>
> Visit Jeff's blog at: http://www.asktheCM MIAppraiser. com
> <http://asktheCMMIAp praiser.blogspot .com>
>
> *From:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:cmmi_
> process_improvem ent@yahoogroups. com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick OToole
> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 6:23 AM
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> *Subject:* Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> 
>
> Umesh,
>
> Just put the words, "Could you please tell us how you you..." in front
> of each practice and you'll have a pretty complete questionnaire.
>
> The other thing that I would HIGHLY recommend is that you don't START
> with a SCAMPI A. Conduct a Class B appraisal first, and have some of
> the folks go through the Class B interviews to get comfortable with the
> process.
>
> It is not a test. The appraisal team is just trying to understand how
> the work is performed on the projects. It should be more of a
> "dialogue" than an "interview."
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Pat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* umesh koli <mailto:umesh.koli@yahoo. co.in>
>
> *To:* cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:cmmi_process_ improvement@ yahoogroups. com>
>
> *Cc:* umesh <mailto:koli.umesh@gmail. com>
>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 16, 2009 1:05 AM
>
> *Subject:* [CMMi Process Improvement] SCAMPI -A Assessment Question
> For FAR Group
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Can any one share the Questionnaires fro SCAMPI - Appraisal, for
> ML-3 , Currently my Organisation is going for SCAMPI -A and i want
> to trained the Team who will be interviewed by ATM, As this is
> first experience for them to face SCAMPI - A.
>
> I looking for some question based on Process Area, so Team (FAR
> Group Member )will prepare them to answer.
>
> I search on Google but not able to find :(
>
> Please help me..........
>
> Regards
>
> Umesh koli
>
> SQA Lead
>
>
>
> From cricket scores to your friends. Try the Yahoo! India Homepage!
> <http://in.rd. yahoo.com/ tagline_metro_ 4/*http:/ in.yahoo. com/trynew>
>
>

--

Dr. Ralf Kneuper
Beratung fuer Softwarequalitaetsm anagement und Prozessverbesserung
SEI-certified SCAMPI Lead Appraiser for CMMI-DEV and CMMI-SVC
iNTACS-certified ISO/IEC 15504 Principal Assessor

Philipp-Roeth- Weg 14 ralf@kneuper. de
D-64295 Darmstadt www.kneuper. de
Germany
Tel. +49-(0)173-3432005

PGP Public Key and Fingerprint: see www.kneuper. de/Kontakt/ pgp-key.html



The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.


#16730 From: Vasudevan Ottur <omvasudevan10@...>
Date: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:50 pm
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Project Closure and CMMI
omvasudevan10
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Vijay,

CMMI is a set of best practices, which you can follow in a project. CMMI may not tell you how to start and close a project. You may have to document a process description on all the activities to be performed for kick starting a project and closing it in alignment with your organizations practices.

Best regards
Vasudevan


From: vijay <thesoulstealer@...>
To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 24 November, 2009 4:57:14 PM
Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] Project Closure and CMMI

 

Hi all,
I have been looking at various aspects of CMMI and a typical administrative start and closure of a project and found it difficult to attribute project closure activities within CMMI.

I also discovered that PMBOK addresses the project start and closure better than CMMI. (For example - page 26 of Real process improvement using the CMMI By Michael West)

I wanted to know your perspective of how you have tied CMMI and Project Closure.

Regards,
VB



The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

#16731 From: <murali_chemuturi@...>
Date: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:09 pm
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Effort estimation method
chemuturi
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
HI Dalia
 
It appears to me that your organization needs training on software estimation. Software estimation has four dimensions, namely, software size, development effort, cost and schedule. There are multiple software size measures, function points (FP Mark II, Cosmic FFP, etc.), Use Case Points, Object Points, Story Points, Feature Points, SSU, LOC to name the popular ones. Effort estimation can be derived from software size or alternatively using COCOMO or Task Based Estimation.
 
Right technique depends on the project at hand besides the time available for estimation, accuracy needed, the purpose of estimation and so on. My suggestion is to attend a training program on software estimation.
 
Best wishes for your success
 
Murali Chemuturi
www.chemuturi.com
91-40-27220771
91-0-98850-19461
USA-347-394-3138

Author of book - Software Estimation Best Practices, Tools and Techniques on Amazon.com on J.Ross Publishing and

Book Mastering Software Quality Assurance Best Practices Tools and Techniques on J.Ross


From: Dalia Adel
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 4:06 PM
Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] Effort estimation method

 

Dear all,
kindly I want to ask about effort estimation method  that can be used easily and effectively as we use case point but it seems to be ineffective.
please if anyone can suggest a method and attach a template for using it I will be very thankful to him/her. 
Thanks in advance
Best regards
Dalia Adel


#16732 From: Santiago Matalonga <smatalonga@...>
Date: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:19 pm
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Effort estimation method
smatalonga
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

Dear Dalia,

In my experience it takes time to attain a "reasonable"level of effectivenes. I quote reasonable, because effectiveness is a measure that only you can give.

We have used an estimation method based in Function Points, but it took a while to adecuate the FP estimation to the actual effort at the organization.

My advice would be to stick to one method, and to make sure that all estimators are using it the same way (invest in institutionalization). And then just wait... with time or sufficient repetition you should be able to increase its effectiveness.

Changing from method to method will likelyinvolveloosing your measurement history. And therefore having to wait longer to see the results.

Best of luck,
Santiago


On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Dalia Adel <daliaadel12@...> wrote:

Dear all,
kindly I want to ask about effort estimationmethod that can be used easily and effectivelyas we use case point but it seems to be ineffective.
please if anyonecan suggest a method and attach a template for using it I will be very thankful to him/her.
Thanks in advance
Best regards
Dalia Adel



#16733 From: "sameerdutta" <sameerdutta@...>
Date: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:06 am
Subject: Request participation in CMMI questionaire
sameerdutta
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi,

I am trying to finetune a CMMI questionnaire for my research.  I will greatly
appreciate if the members could kindly take the survey. The results of this
survey will only be used for research and academic purposes.

Thanks in advance.

The survey is available at:

http://www.bonuslearn.com/cmmi

Sincerely,

Sameer

#16734 From: "Patrick OToole" <PACT.otoole@...>
Date: Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:51 pm
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Project Closure and CMMI
pactotoole
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
 
Vijay,
 
I would agree that "project closure," as a singular event, is not reflected in the CMMI per se.  I believe that there are a number of practices that can, and often are, invoked at project closure, but it is not nearly as explicit as the advice provided in the PMBOK.
 
The oft-executed practices, in my perceived order of relevance, include:
- IPM SP1.6 Contribute to Organizational Process Assets
- All GP3.2 Collect Improvement Information
- OPF SP1.3 Identify the Organization's Process Improvements
 
In addition, any information collected via CAR SP2.3 Collect Data, and/or OID SP2.3 Measure Improvement Effects might also be of use in this regard.
 
Not very concise - some might even say "contrived" - but that's the best I can do off the top of my head!
 
Others?
 
Pat
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: vijay
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 5:27 AM
Subject: [CMMi Process Improvement] Project Closure and CMMI

 

Hi all,
I have been looking at various aspects of CMMI and a typical administrative start and closure of a project and found it difficult to attribute project closure activities within CMMI.

I also discovered that PMBOK addresses the project start and closure better than CMMI. (For example - page 26 of Real process improvement using the CMMI By Michael West)

I wanted to know your perspective of how you have tied CMMI and Project Closure.

Regards,
VB


#16735 From: "Heather Oppenheimer" <heather@...>
Date: Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:40 pm
Subject: RE: {Disarmed} [CMMi Process Improvement] Project Closure and CMMI
heatheroppen...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi VB,
 
CMMI took out the concept of project closure because "project" can mean so many different things in different contexts. Some "projects" don't really have a "closure".   This is especially true in CMMI-SVC (stay tuned for CMMI V1.3 when "project" terminology issues will probably be addressed to some extent.)
 
If you really need to map your project closure activities to CMMI, there are a couple of practices that might be reasonable (depending on what is included in administrative start and closure.)  One simple answer is to consider "project closure" a milestone and you can tie the administrative activities to the milestone reviews in PMC SP1.7.  You can also look at GP3.2 for all PAs and IPM SP1.6 - if some of your project closure activities are related to collecting lessons learned and other project information.  Other PAs might also contain practices related to the things you do at project closure.
 
But the real question is why do you need to attribute project closure activities to CMMI?  Is this an academic exercise or is it something you need to do for your business or process improvement context?  CMMI is a useful model, but it doesn't address a LOT of important things directly  (reliability, security, financial accountability, hiring, retention...)  It's fine to get guidance from other standards, models, and frameworks - including the PMBOK - if they are useful to you!
 
Heather Oppenheimer
 


From: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com [mailto:cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vijay
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:27 AM
To: cmmi_process_improvement@yahoogroups.com
Subject: {Disarmed} [CMMi Process Improvement] Project Closure and CMMI

 

Hi all,
I have been looking at various aspects of CMMI and a typical administrative start and closure of a project and found it difficult to attribute project closure activities within CMMI.

I also discovered that PMBOK addresses the project start and closure better than CMMI. (For example - page 26 of Real process improvement using the CMMI By Michael West)

I wanted to know your perspective of how you have tied CMMI and Project Closure.

Regards,
VB


#16736 From: "Bruce R. Duncil" <brduncil@...>
Date: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:56 pm
Subject: Re: [CMMi Process Improvement] Project Closure and CMMI
bruce.duncil
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi,
One major purpose of the CMMI is to guide you in
developing your processes that stabilize your
projects and products. It is expected that, with
increasing maturity, your estimates become more
accurate, your results and outcomes more
predictable, and your performance more
repeatable.  Developing mechanisms, including
metrics, to manage projects to achieve those
goals and outcomes should be, but often is not, a
priority for organizations. This can be far more
valuable than "lessons learned" sessions.

Completing project activities that fully
implement CMMI practices across maturity level 2
(and 3) will, if performed effectively, bring the
project to closure. In addition, there are many
specific CMMI practices that address reaching
closure, such as PMC SP 2.3, manage corrective
actions to closure. Completing all the activities
and deliverables, and resolving all issues and
noncompliances, for example, should complete any project.

More directly to your point, GP 3.2 for each
process area addresses the collection of
improvement information which can be performed at
multiple stages of the project, not just after
completion.  Similarly, IPM SP 1.6 expects that
various outputs, outcomes, results, and
experiences will be used to contribute to the
organization assets. What is unique about CMMI is
the focus on collecting such information at the
process level, not just across the project in
general, non-specific terms, although that type
of information would also be important to collect
and use in future projects as well. That is the mechanism for improvement.

CMMI does not prescribe that you perform a
"project postmortem".  There are a few ways to
complete those correctly, and a hundred ways to
do them ineffectively or in a way that results in
negative consequences for all.

Best Regards,
Bruce
www.alderonconsulting.com



At 06:27 AM 11/24/2009, you wrote:
>
>
>Hi all,
>I have been looking at various aspects of CMMI
>and a typical administrative start and closure
>of a project and found it difficult to attribute
>project closure activities within CMMI.
>
>I also discovered that PMBOK addresses the
>project start and closure better than CMMI. (For
>example - page 26 of Real process improvement using the CMMI By Michael West)
>
>I wanted to know your perspective of how you
>have tied CMMI and Project Closure.
>
>Regards,
>VB
>
>

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