... From: "John Nowak" <john@...> To: <concatenative@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [stack] Joy's relationship to...
Stevan Apter
sa@...
Jun 1, 2008 2:32 pm
4095
... Done! Thanks. ... Not for my sake at least; I agree completely. - John...
John Nowak
john@...
Jun 1, 2008 2:57 pm
4096
... Hmm. So is Forth a first-order language based on composition? Seems that way. Mind you, Forth wasn't designed with that in mind, so its syntax is a...
... Roughly speaking, yes. Forth's words aren't pure in the same sense as functions are in Joy and FP, but if you ignore that, I'd say it qualifies. Forth also...
John Nowak
john@...
Jun 13, 2008 12:39 am
4098
... You're right; the access this provides to the source code is extremely limited. ... Some programmers prefer not to receive punishment from compilers... ...
Everyone likes debating matters of syntax, right? Here's a (rather monolithic) way of writing the quadratic formula in Factor: [ rot 4 * * [ [ neg ] [ sq ] bi...
John Nowak
john@...
Jun 14, 2008 9:04 am
4101
For the sake of completeness, Slava offered this definition for the ... This is quite a bit better than the version given here: ...
John Nowak
john@...
Jun 14, 2008 9:46 am
4102
I _like_ Slava's code there. ... Keep in mind that these "cleave combinators" are not actually combinators in this little language... They're part of the...
... Aye. A few times now I've asked him how he'd write something, typically after I'd already given it much thought, and the result has always been very...
John Nowak
john@...
Jun 16, 2008 10:01 pm
4104
... I don't get it. Can you provide a specific counterexample where this doesn't receive a type? It seems to me that there are two possibilities: 1. The types...
... Ah, I knew I didn't explain that properly (well, at all really). Let me recap briefly so I can be sure I've covered it. Factor has a family cleave...
John Nowak
john@...
Jun 18, 2008 12:07 pm
4106
I've recently been considering a concatenative language variant without first-class functions. In such a language, you'd have a clear hierarchy with objects at...
John Nowak
john@...
Jun 19, 2008 7:50 am
4107
Slava has given an interesting example that has made me rethink getting rid of the n-ary 'map' functional: Given an array like {1, f, f, f, 2, f, f, 3, 4, f},...
John Nowak
john@...
Jun 19, 2008 8:49 am
4108
... Well, you've got my sympathy... That's an unfortunate dilemma. It looks like this model of a first-order language works very poorly with concatenativity....
... Such an approach is the only way I can think of to solve the problem. Unfortunately, such an approach is also impossible (or, at least, requires far too...
John Nowak
john@...
Jun 19, 2008 3:25 pm
4110
I hand-translated some very simple first order concatenative programs to a dataflow representation. I implemented the dataflow versions in Pure Data...
John Nowak
john@...
Jul 9, 2008 5:30 am
4111
Recently, I had been working on a problem in 5th. Because 5th is a linear language, it is impossible for any object to be referenced more than once (by...
John Nowak
john@...
Jul 18, 2008 7:54 am
4112
... What you've done is reinvent Fortran 66, which has exactly this model and uses a purely static store. It doesn't even need a stack except to hold return...
... Hah! Well, glad I'm making progress then... ... Aye, I had realized that at least. Good to know that I was right in my thinking, even if it be thinking...
John Nowak
john@...
Jul 18, 2008 9:35 pm
4114
Hello folks, The Staapl project has come to a point where it is ready for public scrutiny. http://zwizwa.be/staapl Staapl is a collection of abstractions for...
That's so awesome, a concatenative language for PICs with abstraction! Thanks for making this public. It sounds much better than programming in assembly. I...
In a functional language, the following optimization is valid (assuming F and G are pure functions that terminate): map G (map F xs) -> map (G . F) xs This...
John Nowak
john@...
Aug 1, 2008 8:52 am
4117
... Okay, I think I get this. (I certainly agree.) ... _This_ I don't understand. What does that mean? I would have said "this is an argument against...
... I think I understand. To summarize with Cat type notation: map : (list ('a -> 'a) -> list) map* : (list ('A 'b -> 'A 'b) -> list) In other words, "map"...
On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 7:01 AM, William Tanksley, Jr ... I agree with William. In a high level language, it'd generally be better if the compiler can figure...
... However, they *do* have a statically known stack effect. ... Yes it is (in most scenarios). ... That is a valid point. However, one of the benefits of...
... I mean that in languages like Factor, allowing the quotation given to 'map' to use any amount of the stack can make things difficult -- even if that...
John Nowak
john@...
Aug 1, 2008 9:06 pm
4122
... I don't understand when you're allowed to omit row variables in Cat's notation. I also think you mean "'a -> 'b" rather than "'a -> 'a". In any case, here...
John Nowak
john@...
Aug 1, 2008 9:21 pm
4123
... This is essentially the point I was trying to make. How strong of a point it is I am not sure. ... I think you need to be careful here. 'map*' acts...
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