Quoting "Pascal A. Kramm" <pkramm@...>:

> On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:51:44 -0500, J. 'Mach' Wust <j_mach_wust@...>
> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 02:13:51 +0100, Andreas Johansson <andjo@...> wrote:
> >
> >>Quoting "Pascal A. Kramm" <pkramm@...>:
> >>
> >>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 16:29:13 +0100, Andreas Johansson <andjo@...>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >Quoting "Pascal A. Kramm" <pkramm@...>:
> >>> >
> >>> >> >German has the labiodental affricate [pf]
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Yes, but only in the middle of the word or at the end. Word-initial it
> >>> >> is "f".
> >>> >
> >>> >Many varieties, yes. Duden German, no.
> >>>
> >>> Duden German != spoken German in most areas. Not in all, but at least in
> >>> a lot of cases, so you're better off not taking it as a guideline for
> >>> anything. In essence, the Duden is quite useful to stop a desk or chair
> >>> from wobbling, but it's very unsuitable to make qualitative statements
> >>> about the actually spoken German.
> >
> >Your own variety of standard German seems to be much worse, since it has
> >long consonants, which is definitly not found in most varieties of standard
> >German.
>
> First, I never said something about my dialect having long consonants, no
> idea where you got that from...

Your posts about how you, in the old spelling, could tell whether a word should
have an eszett or a double s based on syllable borders make no sense at all
unless you've got geminates.

> >The prescriptive standard, that is, the variety of standard German that is
> >teached abroad, equals the Duden variety, and it is very differnt from
> >Pascal Kramms local variety. He seems to be stuck in the out of date point
> >of view that there's only one pronunciation of standard German, and for a
> >reason I can't figure he assumes that his own pronunciation (which is very
> >peculiar) is that only pronuciation of standard German, which is definitly
> >wrong.
>
> I never said anything like that, don't make it appear as if I did.

You've only given that impression in pretty much every post on the subject of
German you've ever made on this list ...

> The above
> is rather true for you, who is apparently of the opinion that the Duden
> variety is the only valid one, while you scorn every other variety of
> Standard German, whereas those are at least as valid.

You're making a fool of yourself. No-one has pointed out the variety of
pronunciations of Hochdeutsch as often and consistently as Mach, nor insisted
on their 'validity' as much as him.

> >Many deny that any variety of standard German is more standar than the
> >others. But if there is any variety that is more standard than the others,
> >then it's the prescriptive standard of old, the variety teached abroad, the
> >variety pointed out in the pronunciation Duden, no matter what Pascal Kramm
> >believes.
>
> There you go again... the prescriptive Duden variety is certainly not the
> least bit better than any other variety of Standard German,

You _do_ seem to have serious difficulties in reading English.

Andreas