Hi All,
Just (literally) finished watching an amazing programme in the BBS "Horizon"
series. Recently there has been a tendency for dumbing down, but since the new
series things have improved no end (I thought last week's, on Black Holes, was
an exception - no flashy and inappropriate music, no celebrities... but no.
Tonight's was about how we acquire speech. Watch the whole thing if you can,
including some rather dodgy hypotheses, but don't fail to miss the last 20
minutes or so, which features an academic language experiment using a Conlang!
Proof, if any were needed, that we are now serious intellectual stuff. Brilliant
- this is what I pay my license fee for.
Mike

Exactly.

--- In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Garth Wallace <gwalla@...> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 10:22 AM, R A Brown <ray@...> wrote:
> > Charlie wrote:
> >
> >> As the story goes, they were twin brothers martyred in
> >> Milan with their mother St. Vitalia. Their father St.
> >> Vitalis was martyred in Ravenna. The most probable date
> >> is under Marcus Aurelius. St. Ambrose found their relics
> >> in a cemetery in Milan. They are patron saints of Milan.
> >
> > Yep - and apparently also of hay makers   :)
>
> By analogy with Castor and Pollux? ;p
>

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 10:22 AM, R A Brown <ray@...> wrote:
> Charlie wrote:
>
>> As the story goes, they were twin brothers martyred in
>> Milan with their mother St. Vitalia. Their father St.
>> Vitalis was martyred in Ravenna. The most probable date
>> is under Marcus Aurelius. St. Ambrose found their relics
>> in a cemetery in Milan. They are patron saints of Milan.
>
> Yep - and apparently also of hay makers   :)

By analogy with Castor and Pollux? ;p

Sai Emrys skrev:
  > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:03 AM, Benct Philip Jonsson
<bpj@...> wrote:
  >> 1) Copy original to backup and 2) Copy backup to original.
  >
  > It's just talking about the *boot sector*, AFAICT.
  >
  > Which means that you could just copy both versions of it with
dd (if
  > you know the exact size and offset information), pick one
arbitrarily,
  > run some consistency test to see if it's working well enough,
and then
  > overwrite it with the copied version if it doesn't. (If they're
  > different sizes though, that'll complicate things...)
  >
  > Boot sectors are tiny; we're talking less than a few megs, max. You
  > could put it on a flash drive.
  >
  > However, doing this is not something I'd recommend to anyone
less than
  > a flat out expert, or someone who has one available. If you
fuck up,
  > your drive will need power tools to recover.
  >
  > Speaking of which... I've had very good results using R-Studio
in the
  > past. And a 1.5 TB drive is only $110 off NewEgg.
  >
  > Given that you've given no reason for why your boot sector got
hosed,
  > I would assume that the drive has A Serious Problem™ until proven
  > innocent, and therefore treat it as dead except when copying
data off
  > of it to its new home.
  >
  > Check the manufacturer website to see if you can get an RMA or
advance
  > RMA on it.
  >
  > - Sai
  >

All's well: I found this, whichd clarified things.

<https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub-installer/+bug/47382/comments/6>

Considering the forum and that the guy wasn't contradicted
I decided it reasonably  safe to follow the advice.

Eric Christopherson skrev:
> On Nov 10, 2009, at 2:03 AM, Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I got this message about problems with the boot
>> sectors on my FAT32 disks at startup of Ubuntu.  I
>> Googled around a bit to find a solution and seem
>> to have find half a one.
>
> Do you have Windows? If so, maybe you should use the Windows disk
> checker. (Take that with a grain of salt, though; I'm just offering the
> suggestion in case you didn't think of it. I have no idea if the drive
> is hosed enough that running the disk checker will damage it more.)

Oh yes, disk checker 'repairs' by slashing everything
remotely suspect.  Moreover it can't handle modern big
volumes very well.

/BP

On Nov 10, 2009, at 2:03 AM, Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I got this message about problems with the boot
> sectors on my FAT32 disks at startup of Ubuntu.  I
> Googled around a bit to find a solution and seem
> to have find half a one.

Do you have Windows? If so, maybe you should use the Windows disk
checker. (Take that with a grain of salt, though; I'm just offering
the suggestion in case you didn't think of it. I have no idea if the
drive is hosed enough that running the disk checker will damage it
more.)

Charlie wrote:
> --- In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Michael Poxon <mike@...>
> wrote:
>> Apparently "Protase" is known only through this one
>> church dedication. The church in question is about 1000
>> years old so he may well have been Norman, along with
>> Gervase.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by this,

Nor I. The bodies of St Protase & his twin brother, Gervase
were found by St Ambrose in the _late 4th century in Milan_.
Not much to do with Normans!

> that this is the only
> reference anywhere to St. Protase?

..which it is not - nor is there only one church dedicated
to these two. Their cult spread in Italy and there are
churches dedicated to them in Pavia and Nola and other
places. By 400 AD their cult had spread to Gaul; we find
churches dedicated to them in Mans, Rouen, and Soissons by
that date - four centuries or before any Normans settled in
north France.

They are known in both the eastern & western churches. The
Greek Church honors them on 14th October, the supposed date
of their martyrdom. The Latin Church honors them on 19th
June, the date of the translation of their relics to the
basilica at Milan.

> Whether these two are
> legendary or real is a matter for a different forum, but
> the two are mentioned as early as St. Ambrose and St.
> Augustine.

Yep - whether the bodies found by Ambrose were really those
of Christian martyrs and whether their names were really
Protasius and Gervasius is a whole different matter.

> As the story goes, they were twin brothers martyred in
> Milan with their mother St. Vitalia. Their father St.
> Vitalis was martyred in Ravenna. The most probable date
> is under Marcus Aurelius. St. Ambrose found their relics
> in a cemetery in Milan. They are patron saints of Milan.

Yep - and apparently also of hay makers   :)

--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:03 AM, Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@...> wrote:
> 1) Copy original to backup and 2) Copy backup to original.

It's just talking about the *boot sector*, AFAICT.

Which means that you could just copy both versions of it with dd (if
you know the exact size and offset information), pick one arbitrarily,
run some consistency test to see if it's working well enough, and then
overwrite it with the copied version if it doesn't. (If they're
different sizes though, that'll complicate things...)

Boot sectors are tiny; we're talking less than a few megs, max. You
could put it on a flash drive.

However, doing this is not something I'd recommend to anyone less than
a flat out expert, or someone who has one available. If you fuck up,
your drive will need power tools to recover.

Speaking of which... I've had very good results using R-Studio in the
past. And a 1.5 TB drive is only $110 off NewEgg.

Given that you've given no reason for why your boot sector got hosed,
I would assume that the drive has A Serious Problemâ„¢ until proven
innocent, and therefore treat it as dead except when copying data off
of it to its new home.

Check the manufacturer website to see if you can get an RMA or advance
RMA on it.

- Sai

Thanks for the enlightenment. So that's another rural myth undone! I'd
certainly never heard of St.Protase before.
Mike
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by this, that this is the only reference
> anywhere to St. Protase? Whether these two are legendary or real is a
> matter for a different forum, but the two are mentioned as early as St.
> Ambrose and St. Augustine.
>
> As the story goes, they were twin brothers martyred in Milan with their
> mother St. Vitalia. Their father St. Vitalis was martyred in Ravenna. The
> most probable date is under Marcus Aurelius. St. Ambrose found their
> relics in a cemetery in Milan. They are patron saints of Milan.
>
> Yes, the names do remind one of enzymes!  The Latin is Protasius and
> Gervasius; the French Protais and Gervais.
>
> Charlie


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.59/2494 - Release Date: 11/10/09
07:38:00

--- In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Michael Poxon <mike@...> wrote:
>
> Apparently "Protase" is known only through this one church
> dedication. The church in question is about 1000 years old so he
> may well have been Norman, along with Gervase.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, that this is the only reference anywhere to
St. Protase? Whether these two are legendary or real is a matter for a different
forum, but the two are mentioned as early as St. Ambrose and St. Augustine.

As the story goes, they were twin brothers martyred in Milan with their mother
St. Vitalia. Their father St. Vitalis was martyred in Ravenna. The most probable
date is under Marcus Aurelius. St. Ambrose found their relics in a cemetery in
Milan. They are patron saints of Milan.

Yes, the names do remind one of enzymes!  The Latin is Protasius and Gervasius;
the French Protais and Gervais.

Charlie

Hmpf.  The Russian was supposed to come out, but this is coming off a
Windows box and there's some oddity I bet.  That'll teach me to just
expect Unicode to be automatically supported.

If it didn't make it, it's the Cyrillic for S-Sh-A, looking in
appearance rather like CWA in Latin letters.

Tony Harris wrote:
> In Alurhsa it would be D'SA for "Dwevsa' Sera'nya'r A"meri"ka'ya'".
>
> I haven't seen anyone mention it, but in Russian it's ??? pronounced
> /Sa/ I believe.
>
> Philip Newton wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 16:13, Eldin Raigmore
>> <eldin_raigmore@...> wrote:
>>
>>> Now I know that the U.S.A.'s initials in Greek are ÇÐÁ
>>>
>>
>> It's always fun to see what "USA" ends up becoming -- one of my
>> favourite linguistic moments was realising that "ShBA" was Albanian
>> for "USA".
>>
>> Also interesting (to me, at least) that "USA" is common in Germany
>> despite not being expandable in German (and, conversely, "Vereinigte
>> Staaten von Amerika" is never abbreviated, in my experience).
>>
>> What other fun abbreviations/translations of the USA have you come
>> across?
>>
>> The only other one I can think of off the top of my head is Spanish
>> "EE.UU." which is also interesting for using a double letter to
>> indicate a plural - something I don't think I've ever seen anywhere
>> else. (And also for not indicating that it's the United States _of
>> America_.)
>>
>> ObConlang: what'd it be in your conlang (if you "do" abbreviations in
>> the first place)?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Philip
>>

In Alurhsa it would be D'SA for "Dwevsa' Sera'nya'r A"meri"ka'ya'".

I haven't seen anyone mention it, but in Russian it's ??? pronounced
/Sa/ I believe.

Philip Newton wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 16:13, Eldin Raigmore <eldin_raigmore@...> wrote:
>
>> Now I know that the U.S.A.'s initials in Greek are ÇÐÁ
>>
>
> It's always fun to see what "USA" ends up becoming -- one of my
> favourite linguistic moments was realising that "ShBA" was Albanian
> for "USA".
>
> Also interesting (to me, at least) that "USA" is common in Germany
> despite not being expandable in German (and, conversely, "Vereinigte
> Staaten von Amerika" is never abbreviated, in my experience).
>
> What other fun abbreviations/translations of the USA have you come across?
>
> The only other one I can think of off the top of my head is Spanish
> "EE.UU." which is also interesting for using a double letter to
> indicate a plural - something I don't think I've ever seen anywhere
> else. (And also for not indicating that it's the United States _of
> America_.)
>
> ObConlang: what'd it be in your conlang (if you "do" abbreviations in
> the first place)?
>
> Cheers,
> Philip
>

"SS" is still used here for "Saints" especially with regard to church
dedications. The church in the next village to me is "SS Gervase & Protase"
which always sound like a couple of enzymes (I think it's enzymes -
chemicals that end in "ase" anyway). Apparently "Protase" is known only
through this one church dedication. The church in question is about 1000
years old so he may well have been Norman, along with Gervase.
And "USA" in Omina would be 'baitene Amerikain aleta" so BAA.
Mike
----- Original Message ----- Back in the 50s, I recall a friend's Catholic
literature had such things as SS 'saints' e.g. SS Peter and Paul, VV
virgins, VV MM virgin martyrs.

ObColang: in Kash, the USA would be, I think, acumbesa hutunuç amerikayi
'union (of) provinces America-gen.', possibly abbreviated cumb.hu.am ("mb"
is a single letter in Kash script)





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.47/2478 - Release Date: 11/03/09
07:36:00

Isn't the runic alphabet itself derived from Greek? So actually it's a
re-import!
Mike
>>...
>> I'm curious as to how a Romance language ended up using a letter
>> derived from runic alphabets.
>

In Alurhsa I find myself using a dash (sometimes more like a tilde) in
the native script, especially after abbreviations.  So, a software
package I support happens to be called "Blackboard".  I translated that
in to Alurhsa for my journal as Nvel Vílnä (literally: Black
Writing-Tablet), which I then abbreviate with the letters NV  (or
actually as N'V which is how abbreviations are marked in Alurhsa, with
an apostrophe-like character after the first letter).  If I want to say
"I worked on Blackboard today" or as abbreviated in English "I worked on
Bb today", (Bb, with that capitalization, is how the company abbreviates
its name), that comes out "Ávrejelályû N'V-án exná".


Eric Christopherson wrote:
> On Nov 4, 2009, at 1:53 PM, Philip Newton wrote:
>
>> 2009/11/4 Roger Mills <romiltz@...>:
>>> Since "bau da" and Gwr names like _ming_ [miN] (would be "miñ" in
>>> native
>>> Kash script) are anomalous, I used a hyphen before the case endings--
>>> _ri bau da-e_ 'to bau da', ming-in 'acc.' I think that would be what
>>> Kash
>>> writers would do with non-assimilated foreign words, assuming some
>>> way could
>>> be found to write non-native sounds*.
>>
>> That's a bit like Turkish's use of the apostrophe for case endings
>> after proper nouns (not just foreign ones), e.g. _Ankara'da_ "in
>> Ankara", _Cengiz'i_ "Cengiz.ACC".
>
> Finnish (and, I just learned, Swedish) use a colon for this. There was
> a member of a programming mailing list I used to be on who would use a
> colon at the end of a programming language keyword or label, if he had
> to inflect it for some reason (e.g. pluralize it or use it as a verb
> in the past tense). I like that.

--- In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Roger Mills <romiltz@...> wrote:
>
> --- On Mon, 11/9/09, Jim Henry <jimhenry1973@...> wrote:
>
>
> > 2009/11/9 Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>:
> > ... using a double
> > letter to
> > > indicate a plural - something I don't think I've ever
> > seen anywhere
> > > else.
> >
> > There are abbreviations "pp." for "pages", "ll." for
> > "lines", and
> > "vv." for "verses" used in English bibliographic references
> > sometimes.
> >  I think they're less common than they used to be,
> > perhaps.
> >
> Back in the 50s, I recall a friend's Catholic literature had such things as SS
'saints' e.g. SS Peter and Paul, VV virgins, VV MM virgin martyrs.
>

mss = manuscripts; pss = psalms.

Charlie

I used the package at <http://www.go-mono.com/mono-downloads/download.html
  >. I'm running 10.5.8.

On Nov 9, 2009, at 10:10 PM, Mark J. Reed wrote:

> What did you use to compile on OS X, and what version?  I haven't had
> any luck getting Mono to install on 10.6.2 using MacPorts.
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Eric Christopherson <rakko@...
> > wrote:
>> On Nov 9, 2009, at 5:49 AM, Mark J. Reed wrote:
>>
>>> FWIW, it seems specific to phonix, not a general mono problem. I
>>> tried
>>> building up a test case until it broke, and never got far enough
>>> that
>>> it did.  Here's what I wound up with:
>>
>> [snip code]
>>>
>>> It displays the contents of any files I list on the command line,
>>> and
>>> then continues to print out whatever I type until I hit control-D
>>> (on
>>> Linux).
>>>
>>> So there's something else in the phonix code causing the EOF
>>> problem:
>>
>> Actually I just compiled that here (on OS X) and ran it, and it
>> doesn't
>> respond to ^D either. And I installed .NET in Windows and both
>> programs did
>> respond to ^Z.

Carsten Becker schrieb:
> I've just checked deutschepost.de, and here in Germany a postcard to
> the US costs €1. :)

Since Amanda mentions it on the registration websites, international
letters <= 20g (that's about 4 pages of 80 g/m² A4 paper) are 1,70 €
here. As for the pricing I'd imagine other European countries to be
similar in costs. Best look things up on your snailmail service's website.

Carsten

Eric Christopherson wrote:
> On Nov 9, 2009, at 7:19 AM, Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:
[snip]
>> Starting from those forms I'd expect haplology to
>> _þritirr, þritrunn_, but I guess you operate with
>> FRIGORI TERRA becoming FRIGO'TERRA quite early?
>
> What is FRIGORI, anyway?

As a separate word it can only be he dative singular of
neuter word 'frigus' (gen: frigoris /'fri:goris/ or possibly
of the late Latin masculine 'frigor' (gen. frigoris
/fri'go:ris/) - both words mean 'cold, coldness, coolness.'

What puzzled me was why it ain't FRIGORIS TERRA = 'the land
of coldness'. But on looking at Henrik's website, I see that
it shouldn't be two words at all, but the compound:
FRIGORITERRA.

Frigori- /fri:gori/ is exactly what we'd expect as the first
part of a compound and, indeed, is attested in Classical
Latin, e.g. frigorificus [adj.] = making cold, cooling.

--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

Hi,

I got this message about problems with the boot
sectors on my FAT32 disks at startup of Ubuntu.  I
Googled around a bit to find a solution and seem
to have find half a one.

Checking with fsck.vfat gives this output:

      ~$ sudo fsck.vfat -n /dev/sdb1
      dosfsck 2.11, 12 Mar 2005, FAT32, LFN
      There are differences between boot sector and its backup.
      Differences: (offset:original/backup)
        67:30/25, 68:d2/29, 69:17/e7, 70:37/15
        Not automatically fixing this.
      /dev/sdb1: 19853 files, 7448020/9765385 clusters

      ~$ sudo fsck.vfat -n /dev/sdc1
      dosfsck 2.11, 12 Mar 2005, FAT32, LFN
      There are differences between boot sector and its backup.
      Differences: (offset:original/backup)
        67:1b/a4, 68:a6/0d, 69:65/07, 70:78/69
        Not automatically fixing this.
      /dev/sdc1: 60584 files, 1341041/30516299 clusters

The answers I googled up say I should run the
following, but it expects me to choose between
1) Copy original to backup and 2) Copy backup to original.
Which should I choose?  The stuff on one of those volumes is
really important, and I can't cough up the money to get
something to back it up to ATM.

Bear with me; I'm a *language* geek, remember!

      ~$ sudo fsck.vfat -ar /dev/sdb1
      dosfsck 2.11, 12 Mar 2005, FAT32, LFN
      There are differences between boot sector and its backup.
      Differences: (offset:original/backup)
        67:30/25, 68:d2/29, 69:17/e7, 70:37/15
      1) Copy original to backup
      2) Copy backup to original
      3) No action
      ? 3
      /dev/sdb1: 19853 files, 7448020/9765385 clusters


/BP

On Nov 4, 2009, at 1:53 PM, Philip Newton wrote:

> 2009/11/4 Roger Mills <romiltz@...>:
>> Since "bau da" and Gwr names like _ming_ [miN] (would be "miñ" in
>> native
>> Kash script) are anomalous, I used a hyphen before the case endings--
>> _ri bau da-e_ 'to bau da', ming-in 'acc.' I think that would be
>> what Kash
>> writers would do with non-assimilated foreign words, assuming some
>> way could
>> be found to write non-native sounds*.
>
> That's a bit like Turkish's use of the apostrophe for case endings
> after proper nouns (not just foreign ones), e.g. _Ankara'da_ "in
> Ankara", _Cengiz'i_ "Cengiz.ACC".

Finnish (and, I just learned, Swedish) use a colon for this. There was
a member of a programming mailing list I used to be on who would use a
colon at the end of a programming language keyword or label, if he had
to inflect it for some reason (e.g. pluralize it or use it as a verb
in the past tense). I like that.

Ok, we are ready to register everyone's preferences for the exchange.  To make
this easier if it catches on as a multi-year thing, we're going to do it by
filling out profiles at the new Conlang/Concultural Card Exchange website,
http://exchange.conlang.org.  Please head on over and let me know if I've missed
anything.

tylakèhlpë'fö,
Amanda

On Nov 9, 2009, at 7:19 AM, Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:

>>>
>> The adjective is too long for my sound shifter to work at all, so I'd
>> have to derive it.
>> The noun 'frigoriterra' is too long for my sound shifter to work
>> nicely without help.  Without help, it claims the form would be
>> 'þrigritirr'.  Adding -unn: 'þrigritirrunn'.
>
> Starting from those forms I'd expect haplology to
> _þritirr, þritrunn_, but I guess you operate with
> FRIGORI TERRA becoming FRIGO'TERRA quite early?

What is FRIGORI, anyway?

He was a lovely gentleman. Back in the 70s, I sat in on his course on Caucasian
languages, and it was a tour-de-force to hear him pronounce some of those
words!!

--- On Mon, 11/9/09, Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...> wrote:

> :(  If you can find any recordings of
> his spontaneous backward speech, it's quite impressive.
>
I don't recall ever hearing him do that, even tho we had a deparmental fun-fest
one afternoon where people tried to do it. John Lawler took the prize, with a
very fast backwards Humpty-Dumpty, which he apparently knew by heart :-)))))

I managed to produce [...aSt'namaled'4agulnune] but Spanish is easy...

In Qakwan:

ya Statei Quntoi wa Amerika w

"S.Q.A"

What did you use to compile on OS X, and what version?  I haven't had
any luck getting Mono to install on 10.6.2 using MacPorts.

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:53 PM, Eric Christopherson <rakko@...> wrote:
> On Nov 9, 2009, at 5:49 AM, Mark J. Reed wrote:
>
>> FWIW, it seems specific to phonix, not a general mono problem. I tried
>> building up a test case until it broke, and never got far enough that
>> it did.  Here's what I wound up with:
>
> [snip code]
>>
>> It displays the contents of any files I list on the command line, and
>> then continues to print out whatever I type until I hit control-D (on
>> Linux).
>>
>> So there's something else in the phonix code causing the EOF problem:
>
> Actually I just compiled that here (on OS X) and ran it, and it doesn't
> respond to ^D either. And I installed .NET in Windows and both programs did
> respond to ^Z.
>



--
Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>

On Nov 9, 2009, at 1:10 PM, Arthaey Angosii wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Matthew Turnbull <ave.jor@...>
> wrote:
>> I have know people to use -ase and -ose as clitics as well, for
>> enzymes
>> whose name they can't remember in informal situations.
>>
>> # please note that I have a tendency to use ness as a clitic as
>> well to
>> nominalize phrases.
>
> FWIW, I have the same usage of "ness" and, when I was taking
> chemistry, was known to  use "ase" in such a manner as well. :)

I've noticed that it's becoming more common for people to attach -ness
to nouns, with the meaning "the quality of being ___". I have used it
myself at least once that I can recall, but it still sounds
ungrammatical to me.

>
> My gut feeling is that my own usage here is influenced by being a
> programmer and having mostly programmer friends:
> http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/overgeneralization.html . Although I
> suspect that this is not at all limited to hacker culture...
>
>
> --
> AA

On Nov 9, 2009, at 5:49 AM, Mark J. Reed wrote:

> FWIW, it seems specific to phonix, not a general mono problem. I tried
> building up a test case until it broke, and never got far enough that
> it did.  Here's what I wound up with:
[snip code]
> It displays the contents of any files I list on the command line, and
> then continues to print out whatever I type until I hit control-D (on
> Linux).
>
> So there's something else in the phonix code causing the EOF problem:

Actually I just compiled that here (on OS X) and ran it, and it
doesn't respond to ^D either. And I installed .NET in Windows and both
programs did respond to ^Z.

Charlie wrote:
> --- In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Philip Newton <philip.newton@...> wrote:
>
>> ObConlang: what'd it be in your conlang (if you "do" abbreviations in
>> the first place)?
>>
>
> In Senjecas:
>
> ameri©§asyo qodo remhnemos, A.Q.R
> America's united states

I suppose another way in Deini would be.

	 unizi ameriki statyj
	 [un.iz.i ameʀik.i stat.ɨdʒ ]
	 one.CAUS.ADJ America.ADJ state.PL
	 "United American States"

Charlie wrote:
> --- In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Philip Newton <philip.newton@...> wrote:
>
>> ObConlang: what'd it be in your conlang (if you "do" abbreviations in
>> the first place)?

SASXSEK:

	 ienifi meni stat* iu amerikx    (*filler, not part of lexicon)
	 [jenifi men.i stat ju ameɹikə]
	 one.CAUS.ADJ PLUR.ADJ state of NAME America

Deini:

	 unizi statyj xv amerikx
	 [un.iz.i stat.ɨdʒ əv a.me.ʀi.kə]
	 one.CAUS.ADJ state.PL of America

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:14 PM, Henrik Theiling <theiling@...> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Garth Wallace writes:
>> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Henrik Theiling <theiling@...> wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> Garth Wallace writes:
>>>>...
>>>> I'm curious as to how a Romance language ended up using a letter
>>>> derived from runic alphabets.
>>>
>>> Although not fully explained, presumably, it was introduced in the
>>> middle ages by a historian whose name is unknown, who may have thought
>>> it would stress the close relation to Germanic compared to the other
>>> Romance languages.  In the very beginning, Northern Romance was
>>> written with the runic alphabet by a few scolars, using the þ rune for
>>> the original Latin f (which was different from the Germanic f).
>>...
>>
>> So does it stand for /f/ or /T/?
>
> /T/.  When Vulgar Latin started to spread in Scandinavia, the Latin
> /f/ was different from the Germanic /f/ at that time: Germanic had a
> bilabial [P] while Vulgar Latin had a labiodental [f].  Germanic had a
> /T/ phoneme (which Latin lacked, of course) and the Germans at that
> time took [f] to be /T/ instead, since [T] and [f] are very close
> acoustically.  That's why the þ rune was used by those scholars to
> represent original Vulgar Latin /f/: because it became /T/ in Northern
> Romance.

Ah, interesting!