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Odp: Cowpokes and Centaurs.   Topic List   < Prev Topic  |  Next Topic >
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[cybalist] Odp: Cowpokes and Centaurs.


----- Original Message -----
From: markodegard@...
To: cybalist@eGroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 3:00 AM
Subject: [cybalist] Cowpokes and Centaurs.


Are there IE cognates for this usage of *kent? Have I ignorantly stumbled on not merely a Greek word for cowboy, but the PIE term for cowboy? As for *kente:to:r, if it means 'goader of cattle' (in Greek, I presume -- or is this PIE?), it is ever so easy, at least in English, to see how it can be seen as a portmanteau that gives us 'centaur'; the association with bulls is natural -- and it's bulls that need to be goaded the most. 


Dear Mark,
 
The term as it stands cannot be PIE. This verb-noun type of compound (like English pickpocket) is not without precedent in Greek but would not have been permissible in PIE. If there was indeed a proto-word for 'cowboy' analogous to cowpoke or cowpuncher, it should have had the same structure as in English: a 'bovine' root plus an agent noun derived from a verb like *kent-. Sure enough, Greek has such compounds (is there a thing Greek wouldn't have?). One of them is ... guess what: taurokentai (pl.) 'bull-stabbers = toreadors', Latinized to taurocentae. Don't ask me why nobody has ever connected this with the Kentauroi -- I've no idea. Another attested one is boukente:s 'cattle driver'. This is precisely what I'd expect for PIE -- something like *gwou-kenta:x, if *kent- is old enough (the most archaic 'animal-driving' root seems to be *xag-, usually glossed as 'drive, lead', but originally a herding term; it's possible, however, that it had more to do with driving flocks of sheep or goats rather than herds of cattle; perhaps it's older than the domestication of Bos primigenius). Another Greek word you might like to know is boukentron 'ox-goad'. All these terms are semantically transparent and structurally regular compounds, which makes them impossible to date on the Greek evidence alone: anybody could have coined them at any time. Still, if you want to continue your quest for PIE cowboys, you should try to identify traces of such terms in various IE languages, preferably as obscured compounds.
 
I've been thinking of possible reflexes of *kent-/*kont-/*k@nt-. Latin has contus 'barge-pole, pike' < *kontos (an expected derivative). Germanic *xanduz 'hand' (with *d from Verner's Law) looks attractive but is a bit on the loose side semantically. Hey, anybody ... Other cognates?
 
Piotr


Thu Oct 28, 1999 5:53 pm

gpiotr@...
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... From: markodegard@... To: cybalist@eGroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 11:08 AM Subject: [cybalist] Cowpokes and Centaurs. In American...
Piotr Gasiorowski
gpiotr@...
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Oct 26, 1999
6:08 pm

junk ... From: markodegard@... To: cybalist@eGroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 3:00 AM Subject: [cybalist] Cowpokes and Centaurs. Piotr's...
Piotr Gasiorowski
gpiotr@...
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Oct 27, 1999
12:47 pm

"piotr gasiorowski" <gpiot-@...> wrote: original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist/?start=115 I would like to apologize for this rather...
Sergejus Tarasovas
s.tarasovas@...
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Feb 28, 2000
6:02 am

One more obvious cognate of the 'kentron' et al. is Lithuanian kente:ti/kesti (e nasal) 'to suffer'<'to suffer as from pain'. Surprisingly, in Lithuanian both...
Sergejus Tarasovas
S.Tarasovas@...
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Feb 28, 2000
4:01 pm

junk ... From: markodegard@... To: cybalist@eGroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 3:00 AM Subject: [cybalist] Cowpokes and Centaurs. Are there...
Piotr Gasiorowski
gpiotr@...
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Oct 28, 1999
5:53 pm

cybalist message #120cybalist: Odp: Cowpokes and Centaurs. Piotr again dazzles me. The term as it stands cannot be PIE. This verb-noun type of compound (like...
markodegard@...
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Oct 28, 1999
9:03 pm

Hi all, (I'm enjoying your discussions but I'm no expert in PIE, so probably I'll be mostly a passive member of this group.) AFAIR Sherrat has been comparing...
Marc Verhaegen
Marc.Verhaegen@...
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Oct 29, 1999
12:05 am

junk ... From: Alexander Stolbov To: cybalist@egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 5:48 PM Subject: [cybalist] Re: Cowpokes and Centaurs. Mark Odegard...
Piotr Gasiorowski
gpiotr@...
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Oct 31, 1999
9:57 pm

Hello, Mark wrote: In early Greece, at least, sheep and goats were the main animals. And anywhere sheep and goats are kept, even today, the shepherds and...
Ivanovas/Milatos
ivanovas@...
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Nov 2, 1999
8:06 pm
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