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Vaskonisches   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #36033 of 65406 |
Re: Vaskonisches



> Add the locative suffix -an, and we get *-en-ko-an > *-ingen.
> Thus '<N>-ingen' is "in N's place".
>
> Vennemann claims a derivation from Basque 'bide' (combining form
> '-pide') "road" in various Central European place names, (see
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/pd.html
> )
> among them 'Peiting' and 'Bidingen' (old 'Pidingen'), but must
> settle for the suffix being Germanic, which doesn't seem to be
> necessary: "in the place of the road".
>

Further among them:
Bitburg
With supposedly Germanic '-burg', but that word is pre-Germanic, and
pre-IE; Basque has 'burgu', supposedly loaned from Germanic (cf. late
Latin 'burgus'), when it was was loand is anybody's guess.

Bedhampton
cf.
ha:mus "(fishing) hook" Latin
hamo "fishing hook" Old High German
hamu "(fishing) hook" Lapurti, Low Navarre Basque
hamme lit. "bend of the leg" Old English
cam "bent" Welsh
camurus "crooked" Latin
gamba "leg" Old French
gamba "joint of the leg" Late Latin

Lhande says this is a loan from Latin into Basque. If this root is
IE, it is a mess: Latin should have had 'c' (if from **kam-), or
Germanic have had 'g' (if from PIE **gham-).
Another idea is to use the approach Vennemann used for Basque
'(h)alde' "side", German 'Halte' "slope": Proto-Vasconic *kalde
should have /k / > /h/. So
*kam at some time exists in Nordwestblock, Germanic and Celtic, is
lenited k- > g- in some northwestern language (> Old French), in
which the initial g- is then further weakened (> h) and the word is
loaned into pre-Italic. Or the root had gh-/k- alternation to begin
with.

BTW, PIE has the roots *kam-(*gham-), *kenk-, *ang-(*h2ang-?), *kag-
('hook', 'Haken', Basque 'kakho') for "hook, tie".
Here is what P.V.Hayes has reconstructed for Proto-Austric:
"
*kun[k,q], 'bend' Proto-Austric
*(n)kun[k,q] id. Proto-AustroAsiatic
*du(?)ku? 'bend, curve' Proto-Austronesian(ACD)

*(n)ku? Mon-Khmer
kong koi 'back of neck' Bahnar (PB)
cung kięng ti 'elbow' Chrau
kung kíng kóng id. Sedang
trůang gung 'curved' Jeh
makóng 'arm' Katu
kong id. Rengao
kun /ko?/ 'to bend, curve' Khmer
cúng 'to bend as to
make a fishhook' Pacoh
ticong 'neck' Pacoh
ku? 'to bend' Pearic
kóng 'arm, hand' Sedang
cung 'bow' Vietnamese

*inku? > *ju? Mon-Khmer
jung 'curved' Rengao

Munda: None

Comment: Cf AT*[i](?)kuk, *[i](?)ku? 'bend/bent, arched, crooked'
Previously compared with PAN
(D38) *hi?kuk 'bent, crooked' and
(B173) *(C,t,T)iku? 'bend, curve'
Note that in the ACD, Blust cites the AN roots
*-ku(q) 'bend, curve',
*-kuk 'bent, hunched over', and
*-ku? 'bend, curve'
At the PAustric level, the 'bend, curve' root was probably
*kV, with *kuk and *kuq suffixed derivatives thereof.
Affixation of the latter produced *kunk and *kunq, whence *ku?.
"
http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/Hng.html

Odd, isn't it? It would seem the words for fishing with hook and line
like many other waterfront words is an import from SE Asia, along
with the technique, obviously.

Torsten







Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:41 am

tgpedersen
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Message #36033 of 65406 |
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Some time back I proposed that a Vasconic substrate might be responsible for the ubiquitous West European (Portuguese, Spanish, Basque, Italian, Dutch,...
tgpedersen
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Jan 20, 2005
2:01 pm

... ("I ... some ... imperfective ... verb ... the ... Therefore a ... be ... Add the locative suffix -an, and we get *-en-ko-an > *-ingen. Thus '<N>-ingen' is...
tgpedersen
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Jan 24, 2005
3:43 pm

... Further among them: Bitburg With supposedly Germanic '-burg', but that word is pre-Germanic, and pre-IE; Basque has 'burgu', supposedly loaned from...
tgpedersen
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Jan 25, 2005
10:41 am

... line ... A further oddity: Hayes is forced to somehow accomodate two similar roots, ending in -g and -k. American Heritage (ultimately Pokorny) is also...
tgpedersen
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Jan 26, 2005
1:21 pm

... Joseba Lakarra: Reconstructing the Pre-Proto-Basque Root "...but there are very few examples of the type **buga, **guba. Possibly the only examples to be...
tgpedersen
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Jan 27, 2005
3:35 pm

... can ... Actually, placenames take -n in the locative in Basque. So it's *-en-ko-n > *-ingen. Which looks even nicer. Torsten...
tgpedersen
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Feb 10, 2005
3:25 pm

... On the local cheap-railway-ticket-day I passed the station of Pjedsted southeast of Vejle in Jutland, close to Andst, Gesten, etc. P- ? I looked it up, the...
tgpedersen
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May 21, 2007
6:50 pm

... ("I ... some ... imperative ... verb ... Modern Basque drops -n before the adjectiviser suffix -ko (in order to avoid a form -ngo?); therefore the future...
tgpedersen
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Feb 14, 2005
2:45 pm

Two glosses beginning with *dur- in Lhande's dictionary mean ... I take that back. 'durdu' is from Spanish 'dorado', and as for 'duraza' I place the blame...
tgpedersen
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Feb 15, 2005
10:54 am
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