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TIROL's etymology   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #64372 of 65430 |
Re: TIROL's etymology

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> Returning to <Tiról>, if my accentual concerns are valid, it cannot be
pre-Roman, and a Latinate explanation should be sought. Vulgar Latin *ti:ra:re
'to pull, draw' and *ti:rum 'a pulling, drawing, draught' are reflected in
Italian <tirare> and <tiro>, and in other Romance languages. An adjective, VL
*ti:ra:lis 'pertaining to draught', is very likely. A pass or bridge wide
enough for a pair of draught animals would then be <aditus *ti:ra:lis> or <pons
*ti:ra:lis>. The Castrum Maiense near Meran indicates Roman occupation already
in the 1st cent. CE. I hypothesize that any vehicular traffic in the area had
to go over a pass (or less likely a bridge) which became known as *Ti:ra:lis,
masculine in agreement with <aditus> or <pons>, and which gave its name to the
locality. The medieval castle built nearby would take the same name, by then
Alpine Romance *Tirále. I take this as the source of the 12th-cent. <Tiral(e)>
and <Tyral.> as well as the Middle High German citation <Tiräl>. The official
form <comites Tirolenses> probably originated with a particular dialectal
pronunciation; <Tol(l)> for standard <Tal> is cited from the Eisacktal for
comparison. At any rate this scenario explains the accent of <Tiról>. Italian
<Tirólo> must come from the official German form, not directly from Alpine
Romance.

Cicero (ad Att. 17:13) mentions a bridge called Tirenus (v.l. Tiretius) at
Minturnae, the town on the Liris between Latium and Campania. "Tirenus pons,
qui est Minturnis fortasse in fluvio Liri vel in Maricae paludibus."

> Regarding VL *ti:ra:re, I suspect a connection with the equally obscure Latin
<ti:ro:> 'recruit, novice, tyro', which serves as a cognomen and is
morphologically compatible with Etruscan origin. Possibly an Etr. *ti:r- 'to
pull, draw' produced a noun *ti:ru: 'one who pulls or draws, draught animal',
specifically 'donkey, jackass', and the Latinized <ti:ro:> in military slang
expressed the contempt which experienced soldiers felt toward a recruit. On the
other hand *ti:rum and *ti:ra:re would be developments from the objective sense.

Cicero thrice mentions an assassin named Numisius Tiro in the Philippics, and
<Numisius> is the Latinized form of the Etruscan gentilicium <Numsi>.

DGK





Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:15 pm

dgkilday57
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Message #64372 of 65430 |
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What is the etymology of toponym TIROL/TYROL ? Is it Celtic, Germanic, or what? JS Lopes ...
Joao S. Lopes
josimo70
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Jun 26, 2009
12:54 pm

... Unknown. The most frequent suggestion seems to be that it's pre-Roman. I did find this: Etymologie Schwierig. Vielleicht rät. *Tir-ále. Ein typisches...
Brian M. Scott
bmscotttg
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Jun 26, 2009
8:45 pm

Although my great-great-great-grandmother was German from Rhineland, I cannot read German, so I will try to translate this text. .... I found it ... ...
Joao S. Lopes
josimo70
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Jun 26, 2009
10:25 pm

... Sorry; I should have translated it. Here's a loose but adequate translation: Difficult. Perhaps Raetic *Tir-ále. The ending <-ale> is characteristic of...
Brian M. Scott
bmscotttg
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Jun 27, 2009
5:32 am

... "Diese Seite enthaelt momentan noch keinen Text." I recognize the lion by his paw, however. This explanation belongs to Helmut Rix's theory of Rhaetic and...
dgkilday57
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Jun 27, 2009
5:37 pm

... I agree, and I'd like to add to this etymological discussion an analysis which was first proposed by some Italian linguists (Carlo Battisti, etc.) about 50...
Francesco Brighenti
frabrig
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Jul 3, 2009
10:32 am

... I agree, and I'd like to add to this etymological discussion an analysis which was first proposed by some Italian linguists (Carlo Battisti, etc.) about 50...
dgkilday57
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Jul 9, 2009
10:45 pm

... Cicero (ad Att. 17:13) mentions a bridge called Tirenus (v.l. Tiretius) at Minturnae, the town on the Liris between Latium and Campania. "Tirenus pons,...
dgkilday57
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Jul 10, 2009
8:15 pm

... From: dgkilday57 <dgkilday57@...> Subject: Re: [tied] TIROL's etymology To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 1:36 PM ... ...
Rick McCallister
gabaroo6958
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Jun 27, 2009
6:02 pm

It' quoted the name "vicus Tirale". Could be came tir- < *tu:r-, *taur- "bull, wild bull, aurochs"? ________________________________ De: Rick McCallister...
Joao S. Lopes
josimo70
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Jun 27, 2009
6:19 pm

... Possibly *treh2- (Latin <in-tra:-re>, etc.) but the only way I can get *tir- out of it is through Indo-Iranian and I am not bold enough to put them in the...
dgkilday57
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Jul 1, 2009
9:37 pm

... ===== I neglected to provide the support for the Gaulish protoform I proposed. For the second element we have Gallo-Latin <Maroialum> 'Great Clearing',...
dgkilday57
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Jul 2, 2009
9:08 pm
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