dcadi-@... wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist/?start=29
> Hi! I' a new member on this list. My name is Vojislav Cancarevic. I'm
> from Macedonia, and I am working on proto IE, mycenaean greek and
greek
> and latin dialectology.
>
> I think somebody mentioned Scythia a few days ago, so that reminded me
> of a rather interesting article from an author named Valentyn
Stetsiuk.
> It deals with the language and the national identity of the ancient
> scythians. The same author has written a rather large work on the
> ethnogenesis of several Asian and IE peoples. Both papers can be found
> on-line, the address is
> http://www.brama.com/education/archives.html
>
> I'm very interested in your opinion about these papers.
>
> Cordially,
>
> Vojislav Cancarevic
>

Hi Vojislav,

Welcome to our small (yet), but warm community! I would appreciate your
notes and materials about Mycenaean which the Web still lacks.

As for Stetsiuk, I am acquainted with him: half a year ago he asked me
how he could publish his works online. I gave him a little piece of
advice, so I'm proud to say that his online works are a bit of my
favour. He sent me his works then, but now I will look them up once
again, thank you for referring to them.

Best,

Babaev

Hi! I' a new member on this list. My name is Vojislav Cancarevic. I'm
from Macedonia, and I am working on proto IE, mycenaean greek and greek
and latin dialectology.

I think somebody mentioned Scythia a few days ago, so that reminded me
of a rather interesting article from an author named Valentyn Stetsiuk.
It deals with the language and the national identity of the ancient
scythians. The same author has written a rather large work on the
ethnogenesis of several Asian and IE peoples. Both papers can be found
on-line, the address is
http://www.brama.com/education/archives.html

I'm very interested in your opinion about these papers.

Cordially,

Vojislav Cancarevic

tommy.tyrber-@... wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist/?start=26
> gpiot-@... wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist/?start=24
> > cyryll-@... wrote:
> > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist/?start=23
> > > Dear Members!
> > >
> > > Thank you all who joined this list. I am sure this idea will be a
> > > success of Indo-European studies online!
> > >
> > > I'm now gathering info about substratum words in Indo-European
> > > languages for a new project on CyBaLiSt. I have already found
> something
> > > very interesting about Germanic, Greek and Celtic, but I'm sure
> other
> > > branches also contain lexicon which was spoken in Europe and Asia
> long
> > > before Indo-Europeans came.
> > >
> > > I would appreciate if you can share your knowledge on the matter.
> > >
> > > Cyril
> > >
> > Hi, Cyril!
> >
> > It's a splendid project, but how about reporting to the rest of us
> briefly
> > what interesting things you've found so far? Given the widespread
> assumptions
> > about European prehistory, one would be led to expect traces of a
> Uralic
> > substrate in Germanic, "Minoan", "Pelasgian", "Mediterranean" or
> what-you-may-
> > call-it in Greek, Theo Vennemann's "Atlantic" (Afroasiatic?) in
> Celtic. Do
> > your findings bear out such expectations, or do you intend to come
up
> with
> > something really surprising?
> >
> >
> > Piotr
> >
> >
>
> I would like to comment a bit on substrate in Germanic. There is
almost
> certainly quite a lot of substrate influence in Germanic, probably
> something like 20-30 % of the common Germanic vocabulary is apparently
> not derived from IE, and there is additional non-IE vocabulary in the
> north Germanic languages.
> Some of this is quite central vocabulary items like 'blood' and 'sea'.
> It has been noted that such words tend to cluster in some particular
> fields, such as terms which has to do with the sea and boats, names of
> plants and animals and with pig-keeping.
> The hypothetic substrate language is sometimes referred to as the
apple
> language or "folkish", from two of the supposed substrate words.
> As for this substrate being Uralic there does not seem to be the
> slightest evidence for this, and the affiliations of "folkish" is in
my
> opinion quite obscure.
> On the other hand there has certainly been a lot of linguistic contact
> between Finnish and the (north) germanic languages. There are many
> germanic loan-words in Finnish and their form show that borrowing has
> been going on for a very long time (at least 2000 years). Examples of
> various ages: Fin. kuningas 'king' from common Gmc *kuningaz, Fin.
> kaupunki 'town' from Old Norse kaupung, Fin tykki 'cannon' from Early
> Modern Swedish stycke. Loans the other way are rather less common, but
> there is a limited number of examples, the most well-known being
> Swedish pojke 'boy' from Fin. poika.
> Strangely there is rather less evidence for contact with Saamish,
while
> there are a fair number of Gmc loanwords in Saamish, I am not aware of
> a single well authenticated pre-modern case of borrowing from Saamish
> to Swedish.
> Also I am not aware of any loanwords which would indicate contact
> between Germanic and Proto-Uralic or Proto-Finno-Ugric or indeed even
> with proto-Baltic Finnic.
>
> Tommy Tyrberg
>
>
For pre-Germanic substrates, cf. the following:

http://www.muw.edu/~rmccalli/subsGerIntro.html

Mind you, I don't quite buy Vennemann's ethnogenetic theories, but I
like that page nevertheless.

Piotr

----- Original Message -----

From: gpiotr@...

To: cybalist@eGroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 18, 1999 11:10 AM

Subject: [cybalist] Homeland Poll

Dear IE-ists! Those of you who have not responded to my poll on the IE home area yet are warmly encouraged to contribute their valuable opinions. The poll won't go on forever! Piotr

---

Click Here! eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist
www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

gpiot-@... wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist/?start=24
> cyryll-@... wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist/?start=23
> > Dear Members!
> >
> > Thank you all who joined this list. I am sure this idea will be a
> > success of Indo-European studies online!
> >
> > I'm now gathering info about substratum words in Indo-European
> > languages for a new project on CyBaLiSt. I have already found
something
> > very interesting about Germanic, Greek and Celtic, but I'm sure
other
> > branches also contain lexicon which was spoken in Europe and Asia
long
> > before Indo-Europeans came.
> >
> > I would appreciate if you can share your knowledge on the matter.
> >
> > Cyril
> >
> Hi, Cyril!
>
> It's a splendid project, but how about reporting to the rest of us
briefly
> what interesting things you've found so far? Given the widespread
assumptions
> about European prehistory, one would be led to expect traces of a
Uralic
> substrate in Germanic, "Minoan", "Pelasgian", "Mediterranean" or
what-you-may-
> call-it in Greek, Theo Vennemann's "Atlantic" (Afroasiatic?) in
Celtic. Do
> your findings bear out such expectations, or do you intend to come up
with
> something really surprising?
>
>
> Piotr
>
>

I would like to comment a bit on substrate in Germanic. There is almost
certainly quite a lot of substrate influence in Germanic, probably
something like 20-30 % of the common Germanic vocabulary is apparently
not derived from IE, and there is additional non-IE vocabulary in the
north Germanic languages.
Some of this is quite central vocabulary items like 'blood' and 'sea'.
It has been noted that such words tend to cluster in some particular
fields, such as terms which has to do with the sea and boats, names of
plants and animals and with pig-keeping.
The hypothetic substrate language is sometimes referred to as the apple
language or "folkish", from two of the supposed substrate words.
As for this substrate being Uralic there does not seem to be the
slightest evidence for this, and the affiliations of "folkish" is in my
opinion quite obscure.
On the other hand there has certainly been a lot of linguistic contact
between Finnish and the (north) germanic languages. There are many
germanic loan-words in Finnish and their form show that borrowing has
been going on for a very long time (at least 2000 years). Examples of
various ages: Fin. kuningas 'king' from common Gmc *kuningaz, Fin.
kaupunki 'town' from Old Norse kaupung, Fin tykki 'cannon' from Early
Modern Swedish stycke. Loans the other way are rather less common, but
there is a limited number of examples, the most well-known being
Swedish pojke 'boy' from Fin. poika.
Strangely there is rather less evidence for contact with Saamish, while
there are a fair number of Gmc loanwords in Saamish, I am not aware of
a single well authenticated pre-modern case of borrowing from Saamish
to Swedish.
Also I am not aware of any loanwords which would indicate contact
between Germanic and Proto-Uralic or Proto-Finno-Ugric or indeed even
with proto-Baltic Finnic.

Tommy Tyrberg

Dear IE-ists!

Those of you who have not responded to my poll on the IE home area yet
are
warmly encouraged to contribute their valuable opinions. The poll won't
go
on forever!

Piotr

cyryll-@... wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist/?start=23
> Dear Members!
>
> Thank you all who joined this list. I am sure this idea will be a
> success of Indo-European studies online!
>
> I'm now gathering info about substratum words in Indo-European
> languages for a new project on CyBaLiSt. I have already found something
> very interesting about Germanic, Greek and Celtic, but I'm sure other
> branches also contain lexicon which was spoken in Europe and Asia long
> before Indo-Europeans came.
>
> I would appreciate if you can share your knowledge on the matter.
>
> Cyril
>
Hi, Cyril!

It's a splendid project, but how about reporting to the rest of us briefly
what interesting things you've found so far? Given the widespread assumptions
about European prehistory, one would be led to expect traces of a Uralic
substrate in Germanic, "Minoan", "Pelasgian", "Mediterranean" or what-you-may-
call-it in Greek, Theo Vennemann's "Atlantic" (Afroasiatic?) in Celtic. Do
your findings bear out such expectations, or do you intend to come up with
something really surprising?


Piotr

Dear Members!

Thank you all who joined this list. I am sure this idea will be a
success of Indo-European studies online!

I'm now gathering info about substratum words in Indo-European
languages for a new project on CyBaLiSt. I have already found something
very interesting about Germanic, Greek and Celtic, but I'm sure other
branches also contain lexicon which was spoken in Europe and Asia long
before Indo-Europeans came.

I would appreciate if you can share your knowledge on the matter.

Cyril

Hi again,

I'm formally an IE list member starting from today -- even if I
subscribed twice yesterday (I do not understand what happened, cose I'm
an eGroups member in 6 lists allready.

Greetings,
Mihai


md-@... wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist/?start=21
> Hi,
>
> I have just subscribed for the Indo-European list but, unfortunately,
I
> can't see my name among the members.
> My name is Mihai Popescu, I'm from Bucharest -- Romania.
> I was trained as an architect, but my present trade is IT (namely
> "knowledge management"). This because -- in my youth -- I've studied a
> lot of semiotics and information theory issues.
> IE history "came" to me 15 years ago -- in the days when I used to
> write about architectural-related cultural anthropology.
>
> Greetings to everybody,and thank you Cyril for this great idea,
>
> Mihai
>
>

Hi,

I have just subscribed for the Indo-European list but, unfortunately, I
can't see my name among the members.
My name is Mihai Popescu, I'm from Bucharest -- Romania.
I was trained as an architect, but my present trade is IT (namely
"knowledge management"). This because -- in my youth -- I've studied a
lot of semiotics and information theory issues.
IE history "came" to me 15 years ago -- in the days when I used to
write about architectural-related cultural anthropology.

Greetings to everybody,and thank you Cyril for this great idea,

Mihai

----- Original Message -----

From: Patrick C. Ryan

To: Piotr Għsiorowski

Cc: LIST-Indo-European (2)

Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 11:12 PM

Subject: Re: [cybalist] IE 6 (schwa) = Indo-Iranian i ???

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Piotr Għsiorowski

To: proto-language@...

Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 4:30 PM

Subject: PD: [cybalist] IE 6 (schwa) = Indo-Iranian i ???

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Piotr Għsiorowski

To: cybalist@egroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 6:22 PM

Subject: Odp: [cybalist] IE 6 (schwa) = Indo-Iranian i ???

 

----- Original Message -----

From: proto-language@...

To: cybalist@eGroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 5:31 PM

Subject: [cybalist] IE 6 (schwa) = Indo-Iranian i ???

Dear Indo-Europeanists: I have thought for some time that the traditional equation of IE 6 = Indo-Iranian i as in IE *p6te:'r = Old Indian pita'r is incorrect. I believe a likelier explanation is that Indo-Iranian had a series of roots with -y that corresponded to non-Indo-Iranian roots without -y (pe/o- vs. pey-). Does anyone think this is even worth discussing? Pat Ryan

---

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist
www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

 

Dear Pat,

 

Unfortunately, the correspondences that lead to reconstructing PIE 'schwa' are very regular, and there is sometimes additional evidence for the presence of a PIE laryngeal next to the zero-grade vowel. If you are interested in the details, I can give you a number of examples. In order to make your point, you would need to posit improbably massive alternation between Skt roots with i and cognate non-Indic roots without it. I do not think you would be able to provide any plausible motivation for adding a glide here and there apparently at random, sometimes in root-internal position. Note that even Iranian reflexes of schwa involve no i, so the alternation would have to postdate common Indo-Iranian!

 

On the other hand, it's likely that the differentiation between *a and schwa is not PIE but restricted to Indic and conditioned by stress. More precisely, an unstressed *a would have been raised in Proto-Sanskrit, ending up as a high vowel. W. F. Wyatt (1970) defends this position in his Indo-European /a/ (University of Pennsylvania Press). In this way we could do without a phonemic schwa in PIE, if that's what you'd like to achieve.

 

Piotr Gasiorowski

 

 

Dear Piotr and IEists:

 

I fear I have left an incorrect impression of what I was saying. I meant to write *pe/oH- and *pe/oHy-.

 

I do not dispute the presence of a "laryngeal" but am questioing whether -i is the correct I-I response of 6-.

 

As for the motivation for a -y, I could speculate but before I do, what do *you* think is the motivation for -i, which appears variably in derivatives from *po:(i)-, i.e. *poH(y)-?

 

When I see Old Indian pita'r- and Avestan pitar-, I am not sure I know what you mean when you say that "even Iranian reflexes of schwa involve no i".

 

You write "an unstressed *a would have been raised in Proto-Sanskrit, ending up as a high vowel"; I find this rather questionable. Firstly, are we certain that Proto-Sanskrit /a/ was a front vowel? I would have thought it a central vowel. And secondly, what evidence do we have for the "raising" of unstressed vowels?

 

Pat

PATRICK C. RYAN | PROTO-LANGUAGE@...

(501) 227-9947 * 9115 W. 34th St. Little Rock, AR 72204-4441 USA

Dear Pat,

I'm sorry for the silly mistake about Iranian; I should have just said that the Iranian reflexes of "schwa" differ from the Indic ones in some positions; most importantly, Iranian has no i in internal syllables (e.g. Avestan dugdar 'daughter').

 

As for glides next to laryngeals and the alternation you mention, I refer you to my article in Indogermanische Forschungen 103 (1998), pp.70-92; the title is "Strange ablauts and neglected sound changes in PIE". I wrote it acouple of years ago, but still mean most of what it contains.

 

As for the raising of unstressed vowels, the process is quite common, not to say trivial. Many dialects of English have unstressed /i/ derived diachronically from a variety of sources, as in the second syllable of naked, palace, usage. Latin has a well-known rule raising historically unstressed a's to i's, as in cano~cecini or amicus~inimicus. The vowel in question may well be raised along the central track, becoming first high, and only then fronted; it need not be front at the outset.

 

Best regards,

Piotr

cyryll-@... wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist/?start=15
> tommy.tyrber-@... wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist/?start=12
> > I am interested in finding information on the Pontic Indo-Aryans.
> Where
> > have articles been published? Is Oleg Trubachov's available in
> America?
> > Also, are
> > there any publications on Scythian-Sarmatian linguistics/ethnograph
y?
> >
> >
> The standard work on the scythian language is apparently Abayev, V I
> 1949. "Skifskii yazyk i folklor". Akademiya Nauk SSSR,
> Moskva-Leningrad. I haven't seen this however, and there seems to be
> very little published outside Russia on this subject.

Yes, Abaev's work is really the largest on the matter. But his
conclusions and even etymmologies can seem not quite up-to-date now,
that the new hypothesis about Pontic Aryans is being strongly defended.
So one should be careful with Abaev, who is in fact the largest
specialist in Iranian (and especially Ossetic).

Cyril Babaev

----- Original Message -----

From: proto-language@...

To: cybalist@eGroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 5:31 PM

Subject: [cybalist] IE 6 (schwa) = Indo-Iranian i ???

Dear Indo-Europeanists: I have thought for some time that the traditional equation of IE 6 = Indo-Iranian i as in IE *p6te:'r = Old Indian pita'r is incorrect. I believe a likelier explanation is that Indo-Iranian had a series of roots with -y that corresponded to non-Indo-Iranian roots without -y (pe/o- vs. pey-). Does anyone think this is even worth discussing? Pat Ryan

---

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist
www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

 

Dear Pat,

 

Unfortunately, the correspondences that lead to reconstructing PIE 'schwa' are very regular, and there is sometimes additional evidence for the presence of a PIE laryngeal next to the zero-grade vowel. If you are interested in the details, I can give you a number of examples. In order to make your point, you would need to posit improbably massive alternation between Skt roots with i and cognate non-Indic roots without it. I do not think you would be able to provide any plausible motivation for adding a glide here and there apparently at random, sometimes in root-internal position. Note that even Iranian reflexes of schwa involve no i, so the alternation would have to postdate common Indo-Iranian!

 

On the other hand, it's likely that the differentiation between *a and schwa is not PIE but restricted to Indic and conditioned by stress. More precisely, an unstressed *a would have been raised in Proto-Sanskrit, ending up as a high vowel. W. F. Wyatt (1970) defends this position in his Indo-European /a/ (University of Pennsylvania Press). In this way we could do without a phonemic schwa in PIE, if that's what you'd like to achieve.

 

Piotr Gasiorowski

I doubt Trubachov had time to publish his last work in America. Still, there are
quite a lot of publications on the matter in the West:

Kretschmer P. Inder am Kuban, Munich, Wien, 1943-44.
Georgijev V. Thrakische Etymologien. Linguistique balkanique XXI, 1, 1978.
Detschew D. Die thrakischen Sprachreste. Wien, 1957.
Dvornik, F. The Slavs, their Early history and civilization. Boston, 1956.
Cunningham, A. The ancient geography of India. 1975.

More can be always found.

Cyril Babaev

cyryll-@... wrote:

I doubt Trubachov had time to publish his last work in America. Still,
there are quite a lot of publications on the matter in the West:

Kretschmer P. Inder am Kuban, Munich, Wien, 1943-44.
Georgijev V. Thrakische Etymologien. Linguistique balkanique XXI, 1,
1978.
Detschew D. Die thrakischen Sprachreste. Wien, 1957.
Dvornik, F. The Slavs, their Early history and civilization. Boston,
1956.
Cunningham, A. The ancient geography of India. 1975.

More can be always found.
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist/?start=12
> I am interested in finding information on the Pontic Indo-Aryans.
Where
> have articles been published? Is Oleg Trubachov's available in
America?
> Also, are
> there any publications on Scythian-Sarmatian linguistics/ethnography?
>
>

tommy.tyrber-@... wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist/?start=12
> I am interested in finding information on the Pontic Indo-Aryans.
Where
> have articles been published? Is Oleg Trubachov's available in
America?
> Also, are
> there any publications on Scythian-Sarmatian linguistics/ethnography?
>
>
The standard work on the scythian language is apparently Abayev, V I
1949. "Skifskii yazyk i folklor". Akademiya Nauk SSSR,
Moskva-Leningrad. I haven't seen this however, and there seems to be
very little published outside Russia on this subject.

Dear Indo-Europeanists:

I have thought for some time that the traditional equation of

IE 6    =    Indo-Iranian i


as in IE *p6te:'r = Old Indian pita'r

is incorrect. I believe a likelier explanation is that Indo-Iranian
had a series of roots with -y that corresponded to non-Indo-Iranian
roots without -y (pe/o- vs. pey-).

Does anyone think this is even worth discussing?


Pat Ryan

Needless to say, a poll is hardly the right way of settling a scholarly debate,
but haven't we all got our pet theories about IE origins? So, where do you
BELIEVE the Indo-Europeans came from?
----

Please select one of the following:

    o Steppes (Pontic/Caspian)
    o Fertile Crescent /Anatolia
    o Iranian Plateau/S Caucasus
    o North-Central Europe
    o Danube basin/N Balkans
    o India
    o Atlantis
    o Other


by going to the following Web form:

    http://www.egroups.com/vote?id=937241890228

Thank you!

I am interested in finding information on the Pontic Indo-Aryans. Where
have articles been published? Is Oleg Trubachov's available in America?
Also, are
there any publications on Scythian-Sarmatian linguistics/ethnography?

Perhaps I should present myself. I´m a Swede and not a professional
linguist, being a computer person by profession. I'm interested in
historical linguistics, especially IE and the Nostratic theory and
their bearing on human prehistory.
I consider myself reasonably knowledgeable about the germanic languages
and latin, but have only a superficial knowledge of other IE languages.

tommy.tyrber-@... wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist/?start=2
> I'm very interested in up-to-date view on Nostratic stem *kor'i- (a
> sheep, a lamb). This stem was given by Illich-Svitych in his Nostratic
> Glossary as #173. Do you know other Nostratic stems concerning
> agricultural terms (a goat, corn, weat, barley, to sow) or something
> like this?
>
According to Dolgopolsky (Aharon Dolgopolsky: The Nostratic Macrofamily
and Linguistic Palaeontology, Cambridge 1998) Proto-Nostratic contains
a number of terms relating to gathering of cereals, and of course
animals, but no terms that definitely indicate agriculture. A few of
these (only approximate since I can´t reproduce Dolgopolsky´s very
complex consonant notation:

qaRpV- 'to gather, harvest' (=IE xarp-)
zükV- 'edible cereal' (not in IE)
galV- 'cereals' (=IE xelk-)
XäntV- 'kernel, grain' (=IE (x)et(e)n-)
gawV- '(wild) sheep/goat' (=IE xowi-)
diga- 'goat' (=IE digh-)
bukEgh- 'ram, billygoat' (=IE bhugho-) (=buck)
gadi-  'kid' (=IE ghaido-) (=goat)

None of these however indicates agriculture, and Dolgopolsky thinks
that Proto-nostratic probably reflects a late paleolithic culture,
which seems reasonable given the time-depth of Proto-nostratic (if it
really existed)

Tommy Tyrberg

I'm looking for examples of Sanskrit or Pali Buddhist terms that have
cognates in modern, non-indic languages.

The first one that comes to mind is Sutra:
Eng.: sew
Lith.: siulas, siuti

I also wonder to what extent other such terms are based on Dravidian
borrowings.

Thanks,
Ted

gpiot-@... wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist/?start=4
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> > I'm very interested in up-to-date view on Nostratic stem *kor'i- (a
> > sheep, a lamb). This stem was given by Illich-Svitych in his
Nostratic
> > Glossary as #173. Do you know other Nostratic stems concerning
> > agricultural terms (a goat, corn, weat, barley, to sow) or something
> > like this?
>
> All I can remember is the following stems which are either Nostratic
or just borrowed by Indo-European from other families (Semitic,
Caucasian, etc.) - the matter is still under discussion:
>
> *ag'r- a field
> *Hat-  grain (IE, Hurrian, Hurritic)
> *gu-, *gw-  a bull
> *dq-  a goat (IE and Cartvelian)
> *sw-  swine
> *dhn- grain, a sort of grain (IE and Semitic)
> *tawr-  a bull
>
>
> CYRIL BABAEV

I don't know any Nostratic stems at all, or rather, I don't believe the
"Nostraticity" of any single stem has been demonstrated beyond
reasonable doubt. All I can say is that Indo-European languages do not
show traces of anything like *kor'i for ovines. I plead lack of
competence as regards other families. By the way, Aharon Dolgopolsky
has been elaborating on Illich-Svitych's ideas for so long that now he
should be regarded as chief spokesman for the Nostratic cause. The
recently published collection "Nostratic: Examining a Linguistic
Macrofamily" (ed. by C. Renfrew & D. Nettle, Cambridge: McDonald
Institute, 1999) focusses on Dolgopolsky's preliminary collection of
alleged Nostratic etyma. The book contains a lot of sharp, and I'm
afraid completely justified, criticism of the whole enterprise by
eminent specialists, not all of them a priori unsympathetic to
Nostratic ideas.

PIOTR GASIOROWSKI

astolbo-@... wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/cybalist/?start=3
> I'm especialy interested in Irish, Scots & Manx Gaelic.
>
Hi,
Are there traces of Pre-Celtic substratum in Irish and Gaelic?
If so, is anything known about the nature (origin, relationship) of that
language?

-----Original Message-----

> I'm very interested in up-to-date view on Nostratic stem *kor'i- (a
> sheep, a lamb). This stem was given by Illich-Svitych in his Nostratic
> Glossary as #173. Do you know other Nostratic stems concerning
> agricultural terms (a goat, corn, weat, barley, to sow) or something
> like this?

All I can remember is the following stems which are either Nostratic or just
borrowed by Indo-European from other families (Semitic, Caucasian, etc.) - the
matter is still under discussion:

*ag'r- a field
*Hat-  grain (IE, Hurrian, Hurritic)
*gu-, *gw-  a bull
*dq-  a goat (IE and Cartvelian)
*sw-  swine
*dhn- grain, a sort of grain (IE and Semitic)
*tawr-  a bull


CYRIL BABAEV

I'm especialy interested in Irish, Scots & Manx Gaelic.

I'm very interested in up-to-date view on Nostratic stem *kor'i- (a
sheep, a lamb). This stem was given by Illich-Svitych in his Nostratic
Glossary as #173. Do you know other Nostratic stems concerning
agricultural terms (a goat, corn, weat, barley, to sow) or something
like this?

Discussing matters of Indo-European history, languages and peoples

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