Hi John,

Thank-you once again for your kind words. I am aware of your
perspective of cyborgs and cybernetic augmentation, please note that
this the time-frame of this could be very far in the future. All is
possible. It stems from an article that I read entitled "Are we
entering the Brain-chip Era?". I can't remember the magazine but
here's a related article:

http://news.dmusic.com/print/13463

I guess the science has been biased by the fictional artifacts of
authors like George Orwell and series such as Star Trek with the
Borg. The article claims that it would make big-brother look
amateurish. However, the negative connotations of mind-machine
links are slowly eroding. I know that the Cybernetics Society had a
conference on the mind-machine connection last year, and some such
as myself have been considering it for years. Unfortunately, I
could not attend the conference, but I've always had great hopes for
such implementations, knowing the benefits that such technology
could stand to offer are factual as such cases, existent.

My personal view on it is that a simulation of the entire organism
must be constructed first to simulate the synergy in augmentation,
and that the effective powers that it would facilitate, must be
recorded as factual and priority evidence. But it is possible,
perhaps in fifty years maybe less. I think that such luxuries would
be common place. Its always sad to see the initiative to pursue
such technologies diverge on account of fiction. I think that you
are right though, there will almost always be an inherent mythos
involved as we make the transition from fiction to non-fiction and
fulfill the dreams of free thinkers everywhere. The artifacts
remain unto such luxuries as they could persist, or would
otherwise. There's a big difference here. In any event, a cyborg
as any intelligent life, must be able to account for the third order
system. There should be not prejudice, bias, however the stereo-
types can be challenged as we begin to develop this form of
cybernetics. I think that even Maltz would attest to the paralells
between the self-success mechanism as an elctrogenic implementation
(if he was not dead). Different topic though...

BTW, it is apparent that the link that I tried to copy into this
message did not appear. So I will copy the link for both Tractatus
Paradoxio-Philisophicus and Tractatus Logico-Philisophicus for your
leisure:

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jhutchin/www/BCL/
http://www.kfs.org/~jonathan/witt/ten.html

I hope the links get through. If not, you may want to do a search.
The Tractatus Logico-Philisophicus appears in Google, however the
Tractatus Paradoxio-Philisophicus does not (in English). You may
find it at CYBCOM, you can find the link for this on Google as
well. I guess it is too new. It is unfortunate that Yahoo! groups
parse links as it does. Perhaps the parsing algorithm will pick up
on the raw URLs without the HTML codes.

Sincerely,

Patrick Ashley Meuser"-Bianca"
Cyberneticist

--- In cyberneticsNow@yahoogroups.com, "John K. Balor"
wrote:
>
> Hello Patrick
>
> I'm deeply impressed with how you relate your work to the story
of Icarus. Please take care of yourself. You are by far the most
intelligent person I've ever met, so be careful not to fly too close
to the sun of cybernetics so your wings melt and you crash into the
sea of insanity. You are a great inspiration to me, and probably a
great inspiration to many others as well. Thanks for sharing your
thoughts on the Internet.
>
> best wishes
> John
>
>
> Patrick Ashley Meuser-Bianca wrote:
> I should add that the modern mythos of the 80888 is pre-set with
the
> death of one of the protagonists idols, who declares a lie to
> prevent gang warfare and reads too much into it in his jealousy.
In
> the process he discovers knowledge from the book of the dead in
> order to lead his idol back to life. The gods and the earths exile
> him for this behaviour, which is the reason why he was committed
> into the alternate dimension. So the morale is also to not to fly
> to close to the god's heart or you will lose the Holy Spirit
within
> and possibly wind up exiled or worse.
>
> Patrick Ashley Meuser"-Bianca"
> Cyberneticist
>
> --- In cyberneticsNow@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ashley Meuser-
> Bianca" wrote:
> >
> > My favourite Greek mythology is a story of Marvin Candle (Marvin
> > meaning lover of the sea, and candle meaning wax) when the
> Daedalus
> > and his son Icarus are trapped in a high tower built by Deadolus
> by
> > King Minos. Deadalus makes some wings out of feather and wax for
> > his son Icarus to escape. He warns Icarus not to fly to high to
> > the sun, or the wax would melt, or fly to low to the sea for the
> > feathers would become wet and he would cease to fly. Icarus gets
> > carried away with his wings and flies to high to the sun, the
wax
> > melts, and he falls to his death in the sea near an island.
> > Heartborken, Daedalus names the island Icaria in memory of his
> son.
> > Here's a good link for the related mythos:
> >
> > http://members.aol.com/lostdogon/index4.html
> >
> > My favourite modern mythology for me is personally, the story of
> the
> > sonic odyssey of the Intel 80888. The story goes that in the
late
> > eighties Intel built a chip called the 80888 to compete with Sun
> > Microsystem's SPARC set, as a competing RISC architecture used
in
> > video cards. He was subject to psychological torture and
> discovers
> > the reality of cyborg implants after Earth is visited by the
> > Pelvinians who possess a tachyon reactor, which contained an
> acurate
> > record of all technology built to the point in time at which it
> had
> > existed. Something went wrong with it though and he finds
himself
> > in a dimension of great destruction as the result of an MRI
brain-
> > scan that had formed a ground loop with broadcast networks. He
> > finds that there are many people who are trying to have him
cross
> > into back into his home dimension, but he realizes it would be
> wrong
> > because the it would cause people in his home dimension to be
> > switched in cyberspace as he was, and would cause a situation
> where
> > these people could blame him knowing what he knows and coming
> where
> > he came from--they would've been trapped as he, or visited by a
> > great plague. And something further went wrong with it as the
> > protagonist becomes further lost in cyberspace with no reference
> to
> > the 80888. Anywhere--not even on Intel's home page. Finding
> > himself lost to further references among other things in this
> > dimension--at this time in the early twenty first century, he is
> > visited by the Holy Spirit with instructions on how to actually
> > build the tachyon reactor with the knowledge to his home
> dimension,
> > how to become a cyborg as he was planning and considering in
order
> > to recover the information lost in time to the odyssey of the
> 80888--
> > to develop a stable passage back to this home dimension. He
> drafts
> > his own chipset based on the name in hopes that he could
> incorporate
> > an XWKI brain-scan that would one day that vindicate his case
> > against the MRI as would be developed to prove the missing
> > information in the alternate dimension he entered as the result
of
> > this MRI (which caused him to enter the alternate dimension). He
> > tells a tale of tele-psycho-genics and devises a means to
recover
> > from this, and proceeds to recover the 80888 in order to become
a
> > cyborg. However true in this respect, all this mythology relates
> to
> > myself as the protagonist, and possibly others in the wake of
the
> > greatest tragedy. I, as the protagonist was playing a role in
the
> > institution, and so the sonic odyssey continues while the story
> > extends, in cyber-space and beyond, to set things right... The
> > morale is to not get so caught up in a deterministic and
> > connectionist game, the likely cause of the ill-fated tachyon
> > reactor and the connection with the Pelvinians.
> >
> > I hope I didn't scare you. It parallels closely the story of the
> > Roswell crash in which weather balloons of a future time-frame
are
> > switched for the remains of an alien crash (could it be the
> > Pelvinians?).... The morale here is to devise a system of
weather
> > balloons should one day hover above the Great Lakes and
implement
> > the semiotics as a low-earth system of satellites that could be
> used
> > for point to point high-speed wireless...
> >
> > This complements the great mythos surrounding my work.
> >
> > Patrick Ashley Meuser"-Bianca"
> > Cyberneticist
> >
> > --- In cyberneticsNow@yahoogroups.com, "John K. Balor"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello Patrick,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the references to Kraftwerk song and reference
> text.
> > Maltz uses some very simple metaphors for explaining simple
> feedback
> > mechanisms, comparing the mind to torpedoes and heat seeking
> > missiles. I like such metaphors, but I feel you contribute much
> > more in the way you place such metaphors into a larger context
of
> a
> > complete mythology that brings meaning to life.
> > >
> > > Could you please comment on stories (mythologies) that give
> > meaning to your life and your research on cybernetics. I would
be
> > very interested in hearing about this.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > > Patrick Ashley Meuser-Bianca wrote:
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > It actually takes its origin back to second order cybernetics
> and
> > > digital signal processing techniques. You raise an interesting
> > > point in that one must observe his or her self in order to
> > > effectively extend the natural feed-back of first order
systems
> in
> > > general. My firend who helped me develop The Language of
> Universal
> > > Translation Revised had noted that if you take two mirrors and
> > > scratch off the reflective coating on one of them and align
the
> > > mirrors perfectly, then one can peer through the 'hole' in the
> > > mirror and see an infinite reflection approaching the point of
> > > perspective between the two mirrors, (which is dead center if
> the
> > > mirrors are perfeclty aligned). It reminded me of a song by
> > > Kraftwerk called either Hall of Mirrors or the Looking Glass,
> its
> > > been a while since I heard it. This in effect is the principle
> > that
> > > lasers operate on and it allows us to draw some interesting
> > > conclusions about the second order system versus the third
order
> > > system:
> > >
> > > 1) Second order systems approximate infinities by switching
the
> > > network on and off, while third order systems are continuous,
> > > without the need for a switch.
> > > 2) Second order systems can be digitally modelled whereas a
> third
> > > order system cannot.
> > > 3) Second order systems are abstract in the environment, while
> > third
> > > order systems are the environment, whereas the two spheres of
> the
> > > psycho-dynamic (psi), and techo-dynamic (tau) realms can
> intersect
> > > to form an intersection that looks like an eye.
> > > 4) The eye of convergent third order systems can be
effectivley
> > > decoupled from the network as a systems perspective as opposed
> > from
> > > a systems perspective.
> > >
> > > Therefore a third order 'system' is the reflection, the point
of
> > > perspective and the eye, which according to the decoupled
action
> > > postulate, can be applied as a virtual reality whereby the
> > > conceptualization of a system is mapped by its instructions
for
> > the
> > > education of its developer in which certain 'hooks' may be
> > > implicated for the purposes of extended communications between
> the
> > > two realms. The only problem is that third order systems are
> > > supposdley highly unstable, making their applications more
> > > experimental at present than anything. You may want to read
the
> > > Tractatus Paridoxio-Philisophicus by Richardo Uribe. Here's
the
> > > address:
> > >
> > > Tractatus
> > > Paridoxio-Philisophicus
> > >
> > > BTW, I'm happy to see you here John.
> > >
> > > Enjoy!
> > >
> > > Patrick Ashley Meuser"-Bianca"
> > > Cyberneticist
> > >
> > > --- In cyberneticsNow@yahoogroups.com, "John K. Balor"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have been a member of the Psycho-Cybernetics discussion
> forum
> > > for
> > > > many years, and I never seen anybody with such a profound
> > > > understanding of what Psycho-Cybernetics REALLY is, as the
> > people
> > > on
> > > > this CyberneticsNow forum.
> > > >
> > > > As the Psycho-Cybernetics forum had problems with spam and
> lack
> > of
> > > > moderation, I would very much appreciate of the Psycho-
> > Cybernetics
> > > > people would move over to this excellent CyberneticsNow
forum
> > > where
> > > > there seems to be a much better environment for discussing
the
> > > > essence of Psycho-Cybernetics and Social Cybernetics in
> general.
> > > >
> > > > Could those who are members both on this forum and on the
> Psycho-
> > > > Cybernetics forum please motivate people to move over to
this
> > > forum?
> > > >
> > > > There are many interesting questions being asked in the mail
> > > below.
> > > > Personally, I think I would say that Psycho-Cybernetics is
> > second
> > > > order cybernetics as third order cybernetics would probably
> > > require
> > > > somebody to observe somebody who observeres himself. The
idea
> of
> > > > Psycho-Cybernetics is simply to observe oneself (provide
> > > feedback),
> > > > which, to me, seems to be fully consistent with the idea of
> > second
> > > > order cybernetics.
> > > >
> > > > John K. Balor
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In cyberneticsNow@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ashley
Meuser-
> > > > Bianca" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi all. I've been in the throws on conducting a survey on
> > modern
> > > > > cybernetetics in second-order systems, constructivism,
> > > relativism,
> > > > > holism, reductionsim, etc. in which I've found an
> interesting
> > > > article
> > > > > at Principia Cybernetica Web:
> > > > >
> > > > > >%20>%
> 20EPST.pdf">http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/Papers/Cybernetics-
> > > EPST.pdf
> > > > >
> > > > > It provides excellent overview of these systems as an
> > > introduction
> > > > to
> > > > > second order cybernetics. For anyone with a serious
interest
> in
> > > > > cyberenetics, the Principia Cybernetica is an excellent
> place
> > to
> > > > find
> > > > > resources such as this for which a relevant perspective
> could
> > be
> > > > > built atop of the works of Maltz in particular.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, it is very surpirsing to see the divide in psycho-
> > > > > cybernetics and conventional cybernetics and Maltz is
> > seemingly
> > > > left
> > > > > out of the main-stay of cybernetics materials that I've
been
> > > > > researching here and elsewhere on the web, its become as
if
> he
> > is
> > > > > light years ahead as an understanding--even today.
> > > > >
> > > > > As a former skeptic of psycho-cybernetics, I had thought
> that
> > > such
> > > > > notions of mind-control in themselves, which had bee
> nexplored
> > > here
> > > > > at this group, could pose a threat to the average
individual
> > > > wherein
> > > > > situations could be architected by some out-side force by
> > which
> > > the
> > > > > line between conventional thinking and delusional thinking
> > could
> > > > > become blurred thus leading to confusion between those who
> > have
> > > > been
> > > > > exposed to certain environmental stimuli and those who had
> not-
> > -
> > > or
> > > > > even as an understanding of cybernetics in general.
However
> > after
> > > > > reading Psycho-Cybernetics, I began to perceive these
> notions
> > as
> > > a
> > > > > way to individualize cybernetics and avoiding the concept
of
> > > > > delusional thinking altogether. In a way that the benefits
> out-
> > > > > weighed negative aspects through which mind-control had
> > > originally
> > > > > conjured to my own mind--to include in the experience,
> certain
> > > > > factors that have a basis in either the subject or object
as
> an
> > > > > irrational domain in itself, and that could be almost
> > infinitely
> > > > > explored as a distinction. I now believe that psycho-
> > cybernetics
> > > > > would explain such things as psycho-education, telepathy,
and
> > > > > alternative modes of communication through which even
> > > transhumanism
> > > > > as has evolved over the years, as could be interpreted and
> > > > explained
> > > > > by the cybernetic system in such domains as the
irrational.
> I
> > > began
> > > > > developing a perspective of connectionisms in modern
> > cybernetics
> > > to
> > > > > which the constructivism vs relativism argument could once
> and
> > > for
> > > > > all be settled by a solid model for self-realizing and
self-
> > > > > organizing systems--almost a third-order cybernetics have
> you.
> > > > >
> > > > > The first question is, is psycho-cybernetics already a
third-
> > > order
> > > > > cybernetics already? Well the answer to this question
could
> no
> > > > > further be answered in time than explained without a
primary
> > > > > understanding of systems theory. What's required is some
> > > rethinking
> > > > > into the way we perceive cybernetics and interact with
each
> > > other.
> > > > > Instead of something that is applied to the subject as an
> > object
> > > > > oriented system (a paradox in itself), we would begin
seeing
> > it
> > > as
> > > > > something that is applied to the irrational domain
instead, a
> > > > > canonical system between these two spheres wherein we
would
> > > begin
> > > > to
> > > > > find patterns in the such a domain which could be applied
to
> > > either
> > > > > subject or object, and there from, factor in certain
stimuli
> > that
> > > > > could be best described as extra-para-remedial between
> > > interactive
> > > > > systems at greater precisions. Could a world's society be
> > > > controlled
> > > > > as the flow of information becomes a flow of objects, and
> > could
> > > > this
> > > > > flow of objects be controlled and regulated to the point
of
> > > virtual
> > > > > transport without the all the business of the middle-man?
A
> > form
> > > of
> > > > > C2C ie. consumer to consumer exchange have you?
> > > > >
> > > > > The first step that one could take is to use the network
in
> > > order
> > > > to
> > > > > realize his or herself as a truly autonomous system. A so
> > called,
> > > > > third order cybernetics, reborn to the network in
> discovering
> > > > faults
> > > > > that had existed in the psycho-physical system itself
prior
> to
> > > such
> > > > > existence. The second question here to the previous
> paragraph
> > is,
> > > > > what structures could evolve as a result of a social
> > rennaisance
> > > > that
> > > > > should cause the way we in which we come to terms with
> > > technology,
> > > > to
> > > > > change the order to embrace this, objectivism, and come to
> > terms
> > > > with
> > > > > each other? Well, this rennaisance in the web, the so
called
> > Web
> > > > 2.0
> > > > > is the first sign of this. However without an actual
upgrade
> > in
> > > the
> > > > > protocols which we use to exchange information on the web,
I
> > > think
> > > > > its alot of hot-air. It does not yet allow for the
canonical
> > > > system,
> > > > > at least as it is understood in digital signal processing,
> to
> > > > emerge
> > > > > with the infinities that determine the domain between
> subject
> > or
> > > > > object, as an applied system ie. augmented reality. It
would
> > take
> > > > > total and complete autonomy in order to discover its
untold
> > > > history,
> > > > > wherein the essence of the constructivism that exists in
> modern
> > > > > cybernetics would become just another encapsulation and a
> > means
> > > to
> > > > > filter this encapuslation as an infinite impulse response

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