"As to Helmut's analysis of the fundamentals of the Islamic faith
relating to their expressed goal that everyone should embrace
Islam or be subject to the death penalty..."

This thread has exposed important fibers of the fabric of
resistance to deal with in implementing the new empirical
understanding of the natural world which Cleve Backster's
landmark bio-instrumentation experiments over three decades
have proven beyond doubt, except to those whose belief systems,
including modern science, do not possess by their training or
scientific or religious beliefs "firmly determined faith in the
absolute nature of truth itself". Science has been diverted off
of this fundamental track of the truth as an absolute entity,
going from the "age of reason" through "age of empirical
truth" to the "age of relative truth" with misinterpretations
of Einstein's work and embracing twisted Nazi physicist
Wehrner Heisenberg's "Uncertainty Principle" extrapolated
unreasonably to mean "we can never know, by definition,
the absolute truth of anything, only higher and higher probabilities
that any given result of a prediction will be what is really true", ie,
the "probabilistic nature of truth" evident even in Franci's
response below where she "accuses" me of being a
"...'beyond the box' of probabilities thinker" :-)

This comes down fundamentally to certainty vs probability.

"I am a certainty thinker, if not always certainly thinking."

This is the main reason why Primary Perception and Biocommunication
discoveries have not been accepted by the mainstream physics
community, ie, the theoretical physicists "in charge" of physics
are mostly just that, theoreticians, and actually proud to not have any
laboratory experience to verify fundamentals for themselves because
they are "too smart for that," especially when so many new empirical
discoveries turn out to invalidate or be inconsistent with prevailing
physics theory/doctrine/religion.

Because those of devout religious faith of whatever religion, all
have in common their "determined religious faith in the absolute
nature of truth itself" (couched in whatever respective religious
doctrines and dogma, all of them cover this point of the nature
of truth itself), this means the logical best target audience for
Cleve's book would be those of firmly determined religious
faith in the absolute nature of truth, eg, religious scholars with
open minds to scientific discoveries and how they might influence
their religious beliefs, eg, HH Dalai Lama spoke on this point in
his last US visit, to look for what is common between religions,
and that religious people need to pay attention to latest scientific
discoveries to clarify and continually refine their doctrines and
religious beliefs in accord with the truth as it becomes understood
on any particular matter of science or faith.

Few people without some math training can appreciate what
an offering to human thinking was the base 10 number system
that we have and how it has guided and influenced human mind
development over so many centuries. Can you imagine if
we still used Roman Numerals instead of Arabic numerals and
base10 number system? This is such a fundamental part of
the math language of modern science that it is more than
logical to me that Arabic scientists familiar with the description
in the Koran of these natural world truths Backster has documented
with his instruments, ie, Biocommunication and Primary Perception,
will be understandable more easily per the Koran or the Torah or the
Buddhist sutras, in those religious vocabularies which such scientists
of those traditions can grasp and bring out thereby to the mainstream
scientific community, along with this very important key principle
of how humanity has fallen away in science and religion and society
from "firmly determined religious faith in the absolute nature of truth
itself."

Nowhere is this principle more evident than in the double-speak
double-talk of modern day nation-state Machiavellian politics, and
nowhere does it need correcting more, by science or religion or
just by folks who believe in the real truth of the natural world.

As to Helmut's analysis of the fundamentals of the Islamic faith
relating to their expressed goal that everyone should embrace
Islam or be subject to the death penalty, I also understand this
is a fundamental principle of Islam from my mentor from whom
I embraced Islam in 1963 at my age 18 in Los Angeles in consideration
of his teachings of the true nature of Islam and its culture of peace
and teachings and traditions and culture of peace.

How to reconcile this? By understanding that Islam is beyond
a religion, but an understanding of the "definition of The One
God" by which "whatever happens, by definition, always happens
in accord with the 'Will of God'." Is this not the same thing as
saying that everything that happens always happens by definition
as in accord with Torah, the cosmic universal natural law which
even God must follow in the world, and the same as saying that by
definition everything that happens always happens in accord
with the operation of Dharma and Karma?

It's like saying the law of gravity is a religious principle and
those who do not accept its validity should face and learn
the truth, otherwise they endanger not only themselves but
all of those around them. This is the analogy to today's times
when the amorality of science teams with the Machiavellian
ethics of politics based on made up truths, lies, deceit, and
intentionally breaking agreements without honor, eg, US
Indian Treaties. People can understand Islam as surrendering
one's personal desires and will to following the will of God,
the law of nature etc., but those of Arabic culture tend to
understand Islam as only an "Arabic thing" instead of seeing
it as a useful offering to humanity like the base10 number system.

This is the thesis I expect to find evidence of support for in
the intelligent understanding of primary perception and
biocommunication as these new discoveries relate to the
natural world which we human beings are part of and apparently
the only creatures capable of lying and believing in untruths,
which may be a clue to why so little instrumental documentation
of primary perception and biocommunications is evinced at the
conscious control of human beings while fully evident in plants,
bacteria, fungi, and many other life forms including nonlocal
communications between human cells and the "sleeping mind"
or dysfunctional "probabilistic" mind of their "donor".
http://www.primaryperception.com

Plants cannot lie. Humans can and do. Humans have messed up
the world for all life forms including plants. What is the moral here?

David Crockett Williams, moderator, 1/7/2006 1:59 PM]

Science and Technology in Society and Public Policy Networking Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dcwilliams

Jerusalem Peace Council to reconcile her three faiths in peace
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jerusalem-Peace-Council

Global Emergency Alert Response 2000
http://www.angelfire.com/on/GEAR2000


-----Original Message-----
From: Franci Prowse [mailto:info@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 10:56 AM
To: helmut schwarzboeck
Subject: Re: passing on a man's ideas - Why is it that the problem with the
Palestinian refugees cannot be resolved

Dear Helmut

Yes, the internet is a stew pot of ideas running rampant. Remember the
children of both Palestinian and Israeli parents have a solution: Get
to know the people you are supposed to hate. See who they are, share
ideas, and do not fear them....This is being done by the will of those
with the courage to act upon an idea.

You are correct that it is not such a simple thing - an article in
Arabic for Dahesh Voice may be a tiny thing since most Arabs do not read
it. (Daheshists believe that one's fate is determined through one's
acts here on earth, through immutable laws that govern us. They embrace
all branches of true thought.) But the language barrier has been
breached, and perhaps a well funded Arabic person of heart and mind may
create a video of Cleve Backster's research for Al Jazeerha to show to
the world. Illiterate people do not read but are fascinated by
television. All it takes are a couple of visionaries with the right
words and a camera.

ANything is possible in the chaos we share here on the planet!
Underneath the religious rhetoric is the soul's desire for peace,
wholeness, recognition...most humans probably won't get that while in
the body, which is programmed like a computer to see or Not-see (a pun
on ego creations.) Seers will get it and investigate. Not-see's won't
even know that it is there.

Medieval ideas can eventually be buried in the past as new, repeatable
evidence of creation's power is offered.

Meanwhile we are here, blasphemous and divinely inspired.
Scientifically challenged. A quiet voice (plants and bacteria don't
make too much noise) in the wilderness of politics and religion. Arabs
have a history of great minds, of mathematics and principles, of free
argumentation of ideas...Yes, like some Christians, myself included,
they may fear being attacked by fundamentalists. These are those of any
creed or religion who take the fun out of the mental. Da!

David is another 'beyond the box' of probabilities thinker. The seeds
of these ideas must fall on fertile ground. If they are never cast out
in the first place, all the little fertile spots will remain receptive
only to the same old weeds that have been sown war for a 10,000 year span.

In my experience at UCLA during the protest-Vietnam era, I learned that
one good idea can mushroom overnight and manifest a celebration of
international peace and oneness. I've seen it, and done it and would do
it again.

Ah, God's gardener's have a lot of work to do!

Franci

KEiTH SCOTT-MUMBY wrote:

Happy New Year Franci!

I wish I could believe that terrorist bombers would
take time out to read about the private lives of plants!!

Keith


helmut schwarzboeck wrote:

>Dear Franci,

> Thank you for transmitting my question to David Crockett Williams! His
ideas are completely new to me. I have never though that the Near East
Problem could be solved by religious means and not at all that primary
perception could play a role in this process.

> And I cannot believe it up to now.

> Organized religion is in contradiction with science. Think only how many
scientists were tortured to death for finding out some aspects of reality.
Imagine Cleve living in the time of Galileo Galilei - he would have ended up
on the stake like the astronomer who said the blaspheming words "The earth
is moving around the sun".
>
> More than a billion Muslim believe that the Holy Koran is the word of god
and they follow strictly the (not so holy) Hadith. You must study these
books to understand what is going on in their minds. There it is written
clearly in black on white: Unbelievers must be converted. If they refuse
they must be put to the sword. Apostates must be killed as well. Any area
occupied by Muslims (also gained by aggression) is holy country and must be
defended against the unbelievers.... Since god cannot make mistakes the war
between Muslims and the rest of the world is programmed. There is no way to
discuss away this facts.

> Hamas forms a major party among the Palestinians. Their leaders insist
that Israel must disappear from the map. I would call it a "Final Solution,
Second Edition". How can you hope to find a co-existence with people like
these?

> Excuse me please, I did not want to get you involved in religious
arguments. Let us remain on primary perception.

> Cheers,
> Helmut
>
>
>
>David Crockett Williams <gear2000@...> wrote:
> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
Thank you Franci for Helmut¡¯s ideas on the middle east situation,
> but the focus here is not on the present complicated political
> situation (read corruption of money and power by those in
> authority on all sides of the issue, to the detriment of the
> common person just wanting to live a simple peaceful life
> in harmony with their neighbors) but rather on what effect
> might there be towards reconciling the three faiths of Jerusalem
> in Peace if as a common denominator experiment we offer in
> languages indigenous to each religion the Primary Perception
> book so that their religious scholars as well as scientists of
> those languages can ¡°translate¡± their understanding of the
> astonishing natural facts labeled as primary perception and
> biocommunication. This has two ends. One is they get the
> uplift of the knowledge on face value. Secondly they put
> into context, ¡°frame the knowledge¡± in the language and
> accompanying religious and cultural vernacular to spread it
> via that medium and more importantly to compare those
> various ¡°cultural translations¡± of the implications of these
> empirical observations whose patterns may fit better deeper
> religious and spiritual doctrinal principles (theories, theologies)
> than yet do they fit ¡°mainstream (western) scientific doctrine/theory.¡±
>
> I am particularly keen to dig up from my recovered crashed
> old computer hard drive some physics colleagues in Russia
> soon, whose Torsion Field Theory likely already accounts for
> primary perception and biocommunication by their theory
> and laboratory experiments famous for ¡°psychotronic¡± results,
> eg, Drs. Gennady Shipov and Vladimir Poponin whom I met in
> SF a few years ago one day at a physicists gathering put together
> by the inimitable Jack Sarfatti. They perhaps could outreach
> for Russian translation and easy there in today¡¯s climate to get
> the Russian Orthodox Church religious scholars on the case
> which overall would help torsion field move from fringe to
> mainstream not only in Russia but more globally as well due
> applications for the new energy tech genre to replace
> nuclear and fossil fuel power, and inertial magnetic transportation
> technologies to replace pretty much any vehicle that has to
> fly or touch water or land to run.
>
> This means wherever scientists, unlike in America and ¡°the west,¡±
> are influenced in their thinking by the moral and ethical codes,
> which value the truth as an absolute truth and not a probable truth,
> in these scientific communities, be they scientists devoutly
> Catholic, Russian Orthodox, Arabic, Hebrew, Chinese, Japanese,
> German, etc., we can make rapid progress.
>
> Western ¡°Science¡± is defined as ¡°amoral¡± which is the BIG
> problem in how scientists view their work and justify destructive
> work for pay, ¡°I just thought it up, I didn¡¯t blow it up¡± kind of
thing.
>
> This view can only be refined by understanding the ¡°All My Relations¡±
> represented by the empirical discoveries documented by Cleve Backster
> labeled as primary perception and biocommunication, moving from
> probabilities to provabilities to perceptabilities.
>
> For example if all the religions put into their vernacular how they
> understand the workings of nature responsible for these empirical
> results, the scientific community would not only have to pay attention
> to the results but to the insights of these various perspectives which
> when sorted out by the right consortium of collaborators, eg, as per
> example of flaming Jack Sarfatti¡¯s dynamic internetworking, it would
> not take long to rock the foundations of the religious and scientific
> establishments to see the light of the truth in the same way.
>
> As for the complexities of the situation over there in Israel/Palestine,
> I have learned more over the last few months of intense email exchanges
> in support of the Christmas Peacewalk.2005 than I ever knew and now
> know it is more complicated yet requiring much more study before I
> can consider to venture any personal ideas or suggestions, other than
> my now determination to devote my ¡°retirement years¡± to fomenting
> the peace prayer pilgrimage from Bethlehem to Jerusalem thrice annually.
>
> Anyway, lots of my recent research on what¡¯s really happening in the
> Holy Land, and what is being done to help, is in posts archived at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jerusalem-Peace-Council
>
> Happy New Year!
>
> May it be the one of our dreams.
>
> 1David<3 1/3/2006 9:55 PM
>
> From: Franci Prowse [mailto:info@...]
>Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 9:32 PM
>To: David Crockett Williams
>Subject: [Fwd: Re: a Primary Perception Arabic translator (Qumsiyeh, M.
B.)]
>
>
> passing on a man's ideas:
>
>-------- Original Message --------
> Subject:
> Re: a Primary Perception Arabic translator (Qumsiyeh, M. B.)
> Date:
> Sun, 1 Jan 2006 17:47:51 -0800 (PST)
> From:
> helmut schwarzboeck <helmutschwarzboeck@...>
> To:
> Franci Prowse <info@...>
>
>
>Dear Franci,
>
>
>
> Thank you for all the information and the variety of opinions reading
through the documents. It is just the topic "Israel" that puzzles me the
most.
>
>
>
> Why is it that the problem with the Palestinian refugees cannot be
resolved by reimbursement to everybody who lost property in the area
occupied now by Israel?
>
>
>
> When we build a new railway line or an airport hundreds of land - and
home owners loose their property due to construction works. Why cannot
Israel pay compensation and preclude the return of the people to Israel?
Once an airport is built nobody nurtures the hope to grow again potatoes on
his former fields!
>
>
>
> Once people are compensated they can start something new, somewhere else
and they would not think about blowing themselves up to take along a few
Jews at the same moment.
>
>
>
> Another point is my dismay about Arab narrow mindedness. When you compare
the large areas occupied by Arabs - from the Atlantic coast to the border of
Iran - why can't they leave the Jews in piece with the few square kilometers
of tiny little Israel?
>
>
>
> To get help from Arab scientists concerning primary perception is a big
surprise to me. Science is not well regarded in the Muslim world. Israel has
produced more scientists than all Arab countries together.
>
>
>
>Surprise, surprise! However, it is encouraging.
>
>
>
> All the best for this year. It may bring the fulfillment of old hopes!
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Helmut
>
>
>
>Franci Prowse <info@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks David -
>
>How appropriate that you actually wrote what Cleve and I were saying
>
>just a couple days ago. With the Japanese and the Taiwanese putting the
>
>book and research out there, we see the US surrounded -- by people
>
>knowing what is probable...not just babble!
>
>If it is any boost to your mind flow, there was an article printed in
>
>Dahesh Voice, in Arabic, out of NYC, in 2004 about Cleve's research.
>
>Again, they get the part about the capabilities of plants, but only
>
>glimpse the work with human cells in vitro.
>
>We will persist !
>
>Thanks for being not only daring, but for overflowing beyond the box and
>
>ignoring the invalidation from scared intellectuals.
>
>Peace,
>
>Franci
>
>
>
>I'm copying this to key minds who are members of the Bio-Web.
>
>Cleve and I are collecting stories of Primary perception experiences
>
>described by scientists and people.
>
>Manta rays apparently, are quite capable of knowing who they are dealing
>
>with....
>
>
>
>
>