With further thought...it looks like the old meter was not regulating the main
line gas pressure correctly...and this was over whelming the pressure regulator
at the furnace...thus the higher +29% gas flow.

If the gas company test was accurate...the old meter was calculating the gas
usage correctly though.

This reduced gas flow through the furnace might account for some of the increase
in efficiency seen. Too high a burn rate can overwhelm the ability of the
furnace fan to extract heat from the plenum through which the hot gases flow.




--- In diy_magnet_use@yahoogroups.com, nozgzi <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> ** Finally got a letter from the gas company saying that they had tested the
old meter to read at 99.35%...meaning it was actually reading low. Since I
didn't note the serial number of the meter and had no control over how they
tested it...who knows. Pretty sure I'll notice a 30% difference though....if it
is there. It's possible the the 1/2 CF dial was inaccurate (and not used to
read the gas used?) ...but my timing of it wasn't. **
>
>
> --- In diy_magnet_use@yahoogroups.com, nozgzi <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Since the whole point of adding the magnets to the gas lines for the furnace
and water heater was to reduce the CCFs (hundreds of cubic ft)of natural gas
used...I ended up doing some other things to try to reduce gas use. As to how
much the magnets are affecting gas use...I cannot say at this point.
> >
> > CAUTIONS: You would only want to do your own furnace repairs and maintenance
if you have some experince with DIY maintnenace and have the furnace manual for
the specifics you need to know. If things aren't done correctly you can damage
parts of the furnace and/or create safety problems....even to the extent of
causing a fire.
> >
> > This info mostly applies to warm air nat gas and propane furnaces...and
possibly to an oil furnace....and mostly to the older less efficient kinds.
> >
> >
> > A build your own Thermostat circuit:
> >
> > http://nov55.com/ther/thr.html
> >
> >
> > "The reason for controlling on-time is that there is an optimum amount of
time that a heating device should be on. If convection to a thermostat is not
good, over-heating will occur before turn off. Conversely, if a thermostat is
close to the source of heat, too much switching on and off will occur."
> >
> >
> > Things I did:
> >
> > The basic idea is that as the burner operates...it heats the heat
exchanger...and the blower fan moves room air around the heat
exchanger...collecting it before it goes up the chimney.
> >
> > If the burner puts out more heat than the fan can collect for heating...the
rest goes to waste.
> >
> > There is a device called a Thermolator that further controls the burn cycle
to reduce the heat wasted in the chimney.
> >
> > "NEW ELECTRONIC TECHNOLOGY- Proven to give BIG SAVINGS of Natural Gas
heating fuel. With most pilot-light type furnaces, the thermostat will turn on
the burners for a burn cycle that varies from 9-13 minutes. The furnace heat
exchangers will saturate with heat (to about 340 degrees F) in 2 minutes to 2
minutes and 10 seconds. Once saturated, the heat exchangers can only absorb
about 15% of the heat produced by the burners – but the burning is not slowed at
all! 85% of the heat produced in the cycle, after the saturation point – simply
goes up the chimney.
> >
> > This excessive production and loss of heat is largely corrected by the
addition of the Thermalator® I to the thermostat signal wire!!!
> >
> > The installation is very simple and the voltage is very low. If you can
install a thermostat, you can instal a Thermalator I!!!
> >
> > The addition of a Thermalator I puts most old furnaces into the
mid-efficiency range. Owners currently showing reductions of 24 to 32% in
natural gas burning."
> >
> > There are now later more sophisticated versions of these....II & III.
> >
> > NEW IDEA:
> >
> > So you could move your thermostat somewhat closer to the furnace or a vent
and so control the cycling in this way?
> >
> > Could have two mechanical type thermostats connected to the furnace...one
close to the furnace...and one centrally located (current location).
> >
> > Have the one close to the furnace mounted where it would automatically cycle
off after 2-3 minutes...reducing the burn time. The original thermostat would be
turned all the way down to have it out of the circuit.
> >
> > The closer thermostat should automatically adjust to changing outside
temps....no need to worry about adjusting cycles?
> >
> > If this didn't work out...you could always turn the setting on this
thermostat up to the limit so it was closed all the time and revert back to the
original thermostat.
> >
> > Ace Heating Thermostat
> > Item no: 42350
> > Our Price:
> > $12.99
> >
> >
> > The anticipator: there is a setting in some basic thermostats called the
anticipator that is essentially an adjustable resister. It is supposed to allow
adjusting the cycling of the furnace...which as far as I know should be at
around 5 complete cycles (on/off) per hour...12 minutes each.
> >
> > Cycling time is dependent on how many BTUs a furnace puts out and what the
temp outside is...plus the anticipator setting...a higher number causes a longer
cycle.
> >
> > If you make a change...it will take several cycles for the new setting to
stabilize.
> >
> > * bought another thermostat and 20' of wire
> >
> > * have tested this idea on a 30F day
> >
> > * found that I can get as short as a 2.5 minute burn and about a 3 minute
burner off period...temp at typical thermostat location varies from 68 to 70F.
Would like to get this cycle up to maybe 7 minutes total...3 on...4 off.
> >
> > * thermostat has to be placed IN the air flow from the furnace...and in
exactly the right place...and in this test it was set at 77F.
> >
> > * the temp at which the burner turns on MUST be below the desired final temp
at the typical thermostat location...this temp can be reduced by increasing the
anticipator setting some? Or moving the thermostat in the airflow.
> >
> > * if testing works out...I'll install BOTH thermostats...both connected at
the same terminals on the furnace...this way I can use EITHER the typical
location thermostat OR the new location thermostat (short cycle)...by turning
either one of them to it's lowest setting.
> >
> >
> > During this time I was also trying to get the gas meter either replaced or
recalibrated.....eventually it was replaced with a new one.
> >
> >
> > Using info found in my furnaces manual...I did the following test:
> >
> > ---------
> >
> > Using the gas meter's 1/2 cu ft dial...I checked the
> > actual gas being used (assuming the meter is correct)
> > by my furnace for one complete revolution.
> >
> > DID THIS TEST(old meter):
> >
> > * water heater turned down...but pilot light still on
> >
> > * furnace set on LO and running...label on the furnace says this setting
results in a 30,000 BTU/hr input
> >
> > * using the 1/2 cu ft dial I timed it 2 times with the furnace running....
> >
> > 47 seconds per cu foot
> >
> > 46 seconds per cu foot
> >
> > 46.5 X 2 = 93 secs per cu foot
> >
> > * using the formula found in the furnace manual:
> >
> > 1000 X 3600 / 93 = 38709.7 BTU/hr
> >
> > This is +29% over the design flow rate at the LO (30K BTU/hr) setting.
> >
> > When the flame appearances with the furnace...water
> > heater...gas cooking stove turned up...ALL show the
> > same 50% too high flame...and orange yellow flames in
> > the top 1/3 of the flame....I'd say I have too high a
> > gas pressure coming in.
> >
> >
> > SECOND TEST(new meter):
> >
> > * water heater turned down...but pilot light still on
> >
> > * furnace set on LO...label on the furnace says this setting results in a
30,000 BTU/hr input
> >
> > * using the 1/2 cu ft dial I timed it 2 times with the furnace running....
> >
> > 60 seconds per cu foot
> >
> > 61 seconds per cu foot
> >
> > 60.5 X 2 = 121 secs per cu foot
> >
> > * using the formula found in the furnace manual:
> >
> > 1000 X 3600 / 121 = 29752.1 BTU/hr
> >
> > This is -.81% under the design flow rate at the LO (30K BTU/hr) setting
> >
> > Have I been overcharged for gas? Seems so...am going to ask for a 30%
refund....
> >
> > Gas pressure is apparently where it should be...the flame appearance
probably has to do with the quality of the gas...during shortages...the gas
companies can and will add a propane/air mix to the nat gas...or this could be
due to other impurities.
> >
> > -----
> >
> > To do this test yourself...you need to shut off all other gas consuming
appliances...look in the furnace or on the furnace gas valve or the manual for
input rating for the furnace...and you need to be sure the furnace doesn't
switch up to a higher burn rate during the test.
> >
> > Your gas meter might have a 1/2...1...or 2 cu foot dial on it. If it is a
1/2...you need to muliply the time by 2.....if you use a 2 dial...you divide the
time by 2....if a 1 dial...use the time as is.
> >
> > Then plug the time into the formula and viola....
> >
> > -----
> >
> > Replacing the fan switch....
> >
> > With a gas furnace at least (same with fuel oil?) you can replace the fan
limit switch (SEARCH thermodisc...snap disc) with one that is adjustable.
> >
> > I did this about 3 years ago due to the original one
malfunctioning....around $25. It has a range of 90F to 130F.
> >
> >
http://216.122.237.122/cgi-bin/store/oracle.cgi?x=parts&show_details=177&s=contr\
ols&cur=USD
> >
> > I've had this adjusted to 125F...but just set it down to 105F.
> >
> > This means that the fan will run when the temp at the top of the heat
exchanger is above this setting...though there is a 20 degree separation in
on/off temps.
> >
> > If the fan runs longer and is only blowing fairly cool air...the cost to run
the fan is more than the heat saved by circulating the air?
> >
> > Be careful where you buy your parts....I paid $25 for a thermocouple a few
years ago...saw one at the hardware store for $4.
> >
> > -----
> >
> > Good informative heating FORUM...
> >
> > http://www.handymanwire.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB7
> >
> > -----
> >
> > Furnace conclusions (for this winter):
> >
> > * finally got the gas meter replaced with a new one and found that the old
one was reading about 30% too high as far as cubic feet used...so I was being
overcharged by 30%. Am asking for a refund for previous years....
> >
> > Did get an email from the gas company saying that they routinely check
meters that have been removed and that they forwarded my email to the billing
dept.
> >
> > Very interesting how the consumer usually has no way to tell if the meter is
reading wrong...I can see maybe a 5-10% error...but 30 % is pretty bad.
> >
> > A way to be sure is to test the actual manifold WC pressure in the furnace
in inches...then do the flow rate test at a known input rate.
> >
> > * set the fan limit switch DOWN to 105F from 125F....this causes the furnace
fan to run longer and catch more BTUs before they go up the chimney. 110F might
be a better setting.
> >
> > * going to run the furnace on LO setting (30K BTU input) as opposed to using
the 60K BTU setting during part of Dec, Jan, Feb, part of March. This will also
reduce the BTUs going up the flue.
> >
> > * installing a new thermostat ($13 special)...this one has a lower
anticipator setting which allows a shorter cycling than before....the .15
setting causes about a 10 minute cycle at 30F outside temps....a good compromise
between a 7 min or a 20 min cycle.
> >
> > * Might also setup the old thermostat as an extra thermostat...which I have
tested to allow cycling from 5 mins to around 20 mins for a full
cycle....depending on where it is placed. While this would work...there are a
couple of downsides...the shorter cycles cause more wear/tear on the
furnace...with a 5 min cycle causing about 4Xs the wear of a 20 min cycle. The
thermostat also tends to collect dust when placed in an airstream. Sticking with
the new thermostat.
> >
> > * overall I MIGHT save 40% or so in heating costs this winter vs previous
years....without using the short cycling thermostat. But only 10% or so is due
to better efficiency....might manage 15% though.
> >
> > * intend to go thru old gas bills and do a spreadsheet on actual CCFs used
per month and maybe find some degree day data for this area to try and see how
my actual gas use relates to weather. Should be able to see proof of a 40% (?)
reduction in gas used going forward.
> >
> > * did this spreadsheet using monthly CCFs for the last 5 years and degree
day info (cumulative degrees above 65F for a month)from
http://www.wunderground.com/
> >
> > CCFs used have varied some espec the late winter of 2001 and early winter of
2002.
> >
> > Degree day info verified the COLDER early winter of 2002. but not the other.
> >
> > Also did a ratio chart of degree days / CCF to see how well the gas used was
related to the heat needed...for some reason there is a lot of variation in Oct
each year.
> >
> > Pics of these 3 graphs are in the photos section.
> >
>