OK wish list time:

To be able to incorporate ODIN & UNIX/Linux open technologies into the base
package.

With the above in mind some way of installing the respective application within
a tracking environment that notes whats been added/changed etc to then allow
easy packaging and then rolling out to eComStation's.

Good support for USB add on's - as these will be the main attachment medium for
periferals.

To be able to use DHCP/BootP & other new boot systems so that the older RPL
technology can be bypassed. (RPL technology after all makes use of the older DOS
ndis with a switch over mode - this means 2 lots of technology to keep up to
date with DOS & OS/2 - per network card.)

We need some type of streaming multimedia for both audio and image. Posibly
with a rework of the Multimedia subsystem. (I know this costs money - but as
bandwidth increases an all singing, all dancing access point will be desired.
This also then puts it into a position for deploying accross set-top boxes etc.

Simplify the Lotus inspired Task bar. More in line with a Win9X task manager on
menu bar solution - however still have server/user customisable quick
application launch buttons.

Hide the system & application file structure from the user.

Virtual / multiple desktops for power users.

Make the windows/dialogue boxes more like Unix (with an X) using the Windows 9X
positioning for ease of user migration/training.

Server configured Sound/Desktop themes/schemes. Server assigned screen savers.
Optional end user control - but could drive up support costs.
Maybe the above can auto cyle on a daily/weekly/monthly basis.

Remove much of the system configuration utilities available to a "user login".
A "root" or "admin" password to get access to these. Note: I also mean that the
normal user can't see these configuration utilities either. Preferably all
configuration to be done on the server (or console that access's the server).

Remove all references to OS/2. Though I know the help files may be hard to do.
(As well as that OS/2 directory - then again if the user can't see it... - but
then again the consultant can! - just as bad, if not worse!)

Thats all I can think of for now. I think overall if we embrace the open
apps/technology market, hide the guts from the user, give the administrator
tools to allow them to manage, configure the eComStations - but also to easily
install/configure/roll out a diverse range of aplications.

(Yes, I know these are all big items - and Im working on the money side of it
for you :-)  )





Yours Sincerely

Mark Rogers
Principal Consultant
www.orion-solutions.com.au

Okay, fine I'll stop lurking. B)

     People have a lot of preconceived notions when it comes to
computers.
They expect to be able to do certain things, and often think their is
only
one way to do them. The trick in selling an alternative solutions is
breaking through these misconceptions without implying the customer is
wrong
or stupid. People think the only thing that will work on their desk is a
Windows workstation running MS Office. Now we have to show them
otherwise.
     Business clients are easier to convince than mainstream consumers,
but
it is still sometimes a hard sell. Customers expect their computer to
play
RealMedia files, open MS Office Documents, and load a Macromedia
Shockwave
plugin.  Of course they don't need these things most of the time, but
some
manager can't load a quicktime 4.0 file on his system and he starts
whining.

     Providing those little extras that people want but don't need isn't
always an easy task on an alternative platform like OS/2. But the
growing
popularity of open source  and projects like Odin are helping to makes
things better.
     Just my 2 cents here, but what do you all think? Am I totally off
base?


--
ShyGuy's OS/2 Site: http://www.dse-computers.com/shyguy/

It's your chance to help shape the future of OS/2.   Invite
your friends to participate.  Spread the word.

Unlike lots of people at comp.os2.advocacy, I am not doing
this to kill time.   This is a serious effort to do something
for OS/2.   When was the last time something happened that
made you feel good being an OS/2 user?   Whether that
something might happen depends on your input.   There are
people out there saying that there's only a handful of OS/2
user left - outside of the enterprise and in applications
involving machines.   If that's the case, no business case can
be make to revive OS/2.

So, speak up or else I can't hear them.  What do we need in a
potential new client based on components of WSeB?  No, I can't
change the way the SIQ or the exit list works.   I might not
be able to affort the upfront payment to have DVD/Movie - but
I still would like to know what's needed to make up lost time
over the last few years.   Are we using a "legacy" operating
system as some people have said?

--- In eComStation@egroups.com, "Jim Burke" <jimburke@i...>
wrote:
> The company is still in a state of flux and is changing a
lot of things
> about getting them.
> They're requiring minimum subscription terms, they've
epoxied in the bios,
> cut header pins, charge per hour for 1888 access,  and added
software to
> prevent hacking them.  But if you're interested in hacking
them, they
> have a web page http://www.netpliance.com/devcorner/ where
they are giving
> them away
> to developers. Give them a shout!
>

Well, 8M flah and 32M RAM.   That's plenty to run the OS/2
kernel and Netscape.   The only kicker is boot time.   It's
not possible to have "instant" boot.   Unlike QNX, or Linux
embedded, OS/2 DOES take at least a minute to boot.   In fact,
if we are booting ppp (DHCP), it's more likely minute and a
half.    But once you boot, you can put it in sleep mode and
the next boot will be much faster - still not like QNX.   On
the other hand, you can do things a lot more than just a dumb
browser.


> A friend has one. He leaves it on all day long. It dials up
the net
> periodically, notifies him if he has mail, hangs up if
> someone needs the phone line, draws 45 watts, boots up
instantly. He's
> crazy about it. When he tries the hack and breaks it,
> I'll keep you in mind as a potential buyer of the pieces,
but they should
> give you one if you ask!

Their unit doesn't have a NIC card.  They are booting over
modem.   IBM send me a DOS/Browser today to try.   It boots
really fast.   From power on to browser up takes less than 15
seconds.   I think it's good for cell phone.

>
> Wait a second. When I connect a machine to the network and
turn it on,
> I have to have some operating system available before the
computer
> knows anything. The smallest network program I've seen is
> one that tests a NIC, but you have to run it under dos at a
minimum.
>
> If indeed you just connect it to the network, how do you
find it
> on the net? I've made the remote install diskettes, but I've
never
> installed os2 that way. IIR it requires you to know the
address of
> the nic and IRQ. How do you get around that?
>

Magic???   Well, you can come and see it either at the New
York City OS/2 user group in a couple of weeks, or at Warp
Tech at the end of the month.   :=)

It's a package for managing a network
> of stations utilizing OS/2's remote booting capability.   Say
> you have a number of new computers and they are all RIPL
> capable.   To get OS/2 running on these computers, all you
> have to do is:

> (a) Connect them to the network and turn on the power.

Wait a second. When I connect a machine to the network and turn it on,
I have to have some operating system available before the computer
knows anything. The smallest network program I've seen is
one that tests a NIC, but you have to run it under dos at a minimum.

If indeed you just connect it to the network, how do you find it
on the net? I've made the remote install diskettes, but I've never
installed os2 that way. IIR it requires you to know the address of
the nic and IRQ. How do you get around that?



> (b) A screen pops up and ask you for a name, and applications
> you want on that computer.
> (c) 29 seconds later, the operating system is ready, and
> depending on what kind of applications you want, it will take
> another 30 second to a minute for the application to load.
> (d) The machine will auto-reboot and when it comes back up,
> WHOOLA!   OS/2 is ready.
>
> I've been demonstrating this package at several user group
> meetings, WarpStocks, and of course, the up coming WarpTech.
>
> At WarpStock 99, I connected a X10 controller to the server
> and when Peter Coffee came to the booth, I handed him a garage
> door operer.   When he pressed a button, it triggers a REXX
> script which "builds" a bunch of machines right in front of
> his eyes.   That's how I got such positive coverage.
>
> With remote boot technology, you can actually boot a number of
> different operating systems - Warp 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 4.0, W95,
> W98, Linux and so forth (not NT, and not W2K - they are way
> too big).   The technology demo mentioned here takes the
> Aurora sitting on the server and remote boots it on the
> station.   So, effectively, you have a "Warp 5" running on the
> station.

The company is still in a state of flux and is changing a lot of things
about getting them.
They're requiring minimum subscription terms, they've epoxied in the bios,
cut header pins, charge per hour for 1888 access,  and added software to
prevent hacking them.  But if you're interested in hacking them, they
have a web page http://www.netpliance.com/devcorner/ where they are giving
them away
to developers. Give them a shout!

A friend has one. He leaves it on all day long. It dials up the net
periodically, notifies him if he has mail, hangs up if
someone needs the phone line, draws 45 watts, boots up instantly. He's
crazy about it. When he tries the hack and breaks it,
I'll keep you in mind as a potential buyer of the pieces, but they should
give you one if you ask!

jimburke@...
----- Original Message -----
From: <kimwaic@...>
To: <eComStation@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: [eComStation] What's needed?


> --- In eComStation@egroups.com, "Jim Burke" <jimburke@i...>
> wrote:
> >
> > > > are really no breaking new software techs but the
> > > rediscovering of the
> > > > old ones... and Warp is well ahead on that...(or
> > > behind....:)
> > > > i mean... Windows and COM/DCOM is trying to get what
> corba
> > > (SOM/DSOM)
> > > > has.... Java is a "new" concept that brings the VM back
> to
> > > us... RIPL
> > > > technology is awsome... a light client and dump
> terminals
> > > are
> > > > great....
> > >
> > > The part that's amazing is how after several years of
> neglect,
> > > Warp continues to find new life in areas other desktop
> OSes
> > > wish they can be.
> > >
> > > > so i guess he missing point on the past was (maybe) a
> thin
> > > GUI
> > > > interface (likeNetscape) and  some one to put all of
> this
> > > togeter.
> > > > So let the world to rediscover the wonders of Warp.
> > > > Greetings
> > >
> > > As I said before, within the context of "trying to get
> > > somebody to buy something from somebody" - eCommerce, the
> > > station is a transaction device.  Power on, pop up a
> browser,
>
> > > Life should be made simpler with computers.   The currect
> > > state of the industry is lopsided.
> >
> > QNX and the i-opener from netpliance are an instance of
> simple.
> >
> > The hackers have used it for running linux, beos, win98.
> > I'd like to see it run os/2 or see you connect it to a
> network
> > and do your installation trick--it has comm, parallel, and a
> usb
> > port.
>
> We've been trying to order one of those baby.  Everywhere we
> called, it's sold out!!!
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/3555/3/_/_/_/957232823/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> eComStation-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>

--- In eComStation@egroups.com, "Jim Burke" <jimburke@i...>
wrote:
>
> > > are really no breaking new software techs but the
> > rediscovering of the
> > > old ones... and Warp is well ahead on that...(or
> > behind....:)
> > > i mean... Windows and COM/DCOM is trying to get what
corba
> > (SOM/DSOM)
> > > has.... Java is a "new" concept that brings the VM back
to
> > us... RIPL
> > > technology is awsome... a light client and dump
terminals
> > are
> > > great....
> >
> > The part that's amazing is how after several years of
neglect,
> > Warp continues to find new life in areas other desktop
OSes
> > wish they can be.
> >
> > > so i guess he missing point on the past was (maybe) a
thin
> > GUI
> > > interface (likeNetscape) and  some one to put all of
this
> > togeter.
> > > So let the world to rediscover the wonders of Warp.
> > > Greetings
> >
> > As I said before, within the context of "trying to get
> > somebody to buy something from somebody" - eCommerce, the
> > station is a transaction device.  Power on, pop up a
browser,

> > Life should be made simpler with computers.   The currect
> > state of the industry is lopsided.
>
> QNX and the i-opener from netpliance are an instance of
simple.
>
> The hackers have used it for running linux, beos, win98.
> I'd like to see it run os/2 or see you connect it to a
network
> and do your installation trick--it has comm, parallel, and a
usb
> port.

We've been trying to order one of those baby.  Everywhere we
called, it's sold out!!!

> > are really no breaking new software techs but the
> rediscovering of the
> > old ones... and Warp is well ahead on that...(or
> behind....:)
> > i mean... Windows and COM/DCOM is trying to get what corba
> (SOM/DSOM)
> > has.... Java is a "new" concept that brings the VM back to
> us... RIPL
> > technology is awsome... a light client and dump terminals
> are
> > great....
>
> The part that's amazing is how after several years of neglect,
> Warp continues to find new life in areas other desktop OSes
> wish they can be.
>
> > so i guess he missing point on the past was (maybe) a thin
> GUI
> > interface (likeNetscape) and  some one to put all of this
> togeter.
> > So let the world to rediscover the wonders of Warp.
> > Greetings
>
> As I said before, within the context of "trying to get
> somebody to buy something from somebody" - eCommerce, the
> station is a transaction device.  Power on, pop up a browser,
> perform a transaction.  Traditional fat-client is way
> overkill.   I mean, why would somebody want to load every 5
> year classroom with an operating system that takes close to 1G
> bytes of disk storage (W2K) is beyond me.
>
> Life should be made simpler with computers.   The currect
> state of the industry is lopsided.

QNX and the i-opener from netpliance are an instance of simple.

The hackers have used it for running linux, beos, win98.
I'd like to see it run os/2 or see you connect it to a network
and do your installation trick--it has comm, parallel, and a usb
port.

--- In eComStation@egroups.com, Carlos de Luna Saenz
<charly@m...> wrote:
> There are some PC100 motherboards that are being "hot
selling" in
> Mexico for Withe Boxes... the problem to me is the sound
driver and
> modem driver (since they use a kind of Win modem or
something like it,
> and the modem and sound are in the same chip) i can use a
SciTech
> driver if they can do that.

There is no technical difficulty getting them to work.   I can
get you a quote to develop a driver for that if you want.

--- In eComStation@egroups.com, russell_kneebone@h... wrote:
> So we are looking at the possibility of the managed client
being
> an "ad hoc" environment for the processing of e-business
> transactions.

Exactly.  Pops up a browser and nobody needs to know or care
that it's OS/2 underneath.

>In that case, it might be nice to "capture" the host
> environment before RIPLing, so that a look and feel more
consistent
> with the host OS can be presented.  I doubt very much
whether ad hoc
> users would like the location of the close box moving from
the
> rightmost to the leftmost of the three controls.
>

While the technology exists already, people are very sensitive
about being "captured" of anything.  So, I am not sure I want
to do that.   Besides, a browser is a browser - the location
of the close box is the same on all versions of Netscape - or,
I hope Opera.

> The prospect of a fat client that is also, dare I say,
> architecturally thin from a manageability standpoint should
be too
> enticing for anyone to resist, but the fact that it is also
OS/2 will
> probably mean that it is ignored.  Religiously.

If we go into the market with an OS/2 brand name, we will be
dead before we even started.   We don't sell OS/2 - in fact,
we can't.   We are a software VAR OEM.   We only sell IBM
technology with a value added proposition.   We are licensing
components of OS/2.  As a matter of fact, we won't be using
the OS/2 Warp branding.   You will most likely not even know
that the product was built from OS/2 components.

Afterall, why should people care what operating system they
use when they order a bag of grocery from an on-line store?

>
> Thanks to the good work started by Scitech, your managed
client would
> only really need AC97 audio support, USB keyboard, mouse and
printer
> support, and perhaps some sort of support for scanners to go
beyond
> the i-Opener on new hardware.

All of these are managable.   We have access to top notch -
WORLDCLASS device programmers.

>Perhaps you could bring out two
> versions, one to specifically target "legacy-free' hardware
so that
> the nightmare of PNP, interrupts etc. is avoided (the
minimal
> configuration version) and a higher powered version that
does a PNP
> hardware detect prior to adding the machine profile to the
list of
> managed clients (the take on the world version).  BTW, I
have always
> though that the little Compaq USB boxes seem more like
appliances
> than real PCs.

We can actually do better.   Project Concorde was started to
add a hardware card in the applient box in order to run
"legacy" Win32 applications in native mode.

>
> So if I get this right, from an e-business transaction
processing
> standpoint, you see your managed client as the tier 1 (not
quite tier
> 0), Wisemanager as the middle tier (tier 2), and some
unspecified
> powerhouse as the back-end server tier (tier 3).  With the
tier 1
> doing significant processing (as opposed to mostly tier 2 in
"normal"
> e-business frameworks).  Application logic (the business
rules) are
> still maintained on the middle tier and but potentially
published to
> the client side, for non-browser based apps.  The payoff
with these
> apps for the e-business is less load on their servers, and a
richer
> set of functions and UI at the client.  However, I presume
the
> payments are still processed by tier 2 or tier 3.  Sounds
like it
> should be one of Jesse Berst's Natural Born Killers.  All it
really
> needs is the ability to control a global network of
Wisemanager
> servers from a central point (a la Novell's Bordermanager)
via a
> directory service at the world is yours!
>

Don't forget the hardware, the hardware.   That's a give away
item.   :=)

> Technology already exists to have a piece of software (very
> small piece) go into the flashable BIOS which will then DHCP a
> server and from there go into a boot sequence and thanks to
> the Linux folks, they have gotten quite a number of common
> NICs to work that way.   So, that will remove the RIPL NIC
> requirement.

So we are looking at the possibility of the managed client being
an "ad hoc" environment for the processing of e-business
transactions.  In that case, it might be nice to "capture" the host
environment before RIPLing, so that a look and feel more consistent
with the host OS can be presented.  I doubt very much whether ad hoc
users would like the location of the close box moving from the
rightmost to the leftmost of the three controls.

> My focus for the server side is not OS/2.   None of the Intel
> based operating system are suited for large scale eBusiness
> operations.   Currently we use OS/2 on the server side because
> it's there today with the abililty to support remote booting
> so cleanly, efficiently, and effortlessly.   However, once the
> client machine boots, they can be handed over to a more
> scalable box such as a S390, AS400, or Solaris.   A lot of
> people are converting server farms back to a mainframe because
> they learn the hard way runnign eBusiness with a server farm
> does not work.

I am an AS/400 programmer myself (RPG mostly), and one of IBM's major
challenges is to keep the WebSphere server up to date on this
platform as well.  As with all things, the perception of usage volume
drives the porting priorities.

> On the client side, we support OS/2, in addition to the other
> OSes because it's there today - again cleanly, efficiently,
> and effortlessly.   If we manage to gain access to the SMP
> capability of WSeB, it will be able to run Java/XMS aps like
> no other client stations can.   We have applications that
> spawn off couple thousand threads and the WSeB kernel handles
> it like nothing much had happened (very low CPU utilization).
> In contrast, it took us over 3 months to see the first W9x
> boot and even then, we had to start over again for the next
> combination of hardware configuration - it can be done, just
> not what I would say "cleanly, efficiently, and effortlessly".

The prospect of a fat client that is also, dare I say,
architecturally thin from a manageability standpoint should be too
enticing for anyone to resist, but the fact that it is also OS/2 will
probably mean that it is ignored.  Religiously.

> A number of industries have expressed interest to move away
> from the traditional fat-client IF someone can point them the
> way.   Even Internet users, you are beginning to see QNX based
> Internet appliance being sold at a give away price ($99) in
> exchange for monthly service fee.   An OS/2 based give away
> appliant will be far more attractive than a QNX based device.

Thanks to the good work started by Scitech, your managed client would
only really need AC97 audio support, USB keyboard, mouse and printer
support, and perhaps some sort of support for scanners to go beyond
the i-Opener on new hardware.  Perhaps you could bring out two
versions, one to specifically target "legacy-free' hardware so that
the nightmare of PNP, interrupts etc. is avoided (the minimal
configuration version) and a higher powered version that does a PNP
hardware detect prior to adding the machine profile to the list of
managed clients (the take on the world version).  BTW, I have always
though that the little Compaq USB boxes seem more like appliances
than real PCs.

So if I get this right, from an e-business transaction processing
standpoint, you see your managed client as the tier 1 (not quite tier
0), Wisemanager as the middle tier (tier 2), and some unspecified
powerhouse as the back-end server tier (tier 3).  With the tier 1
doing significant processing (as opposed to mostly tier 2 in "normal"
e-business frameworks).  Application logic (the business rules) are
still maintained on the middle tier and but potentially published to
the client side, for non-browser based apps.  The payoff with these
apps for the e-business is less load on their servers, and a richer
set of functions and UI at the client.  However, I presume the
payments are still processed by tier 2 or tier 3.  Sounds like it
should be one of Jesse Berst's Natural Born Killers.  All it really
needs is the ability to control a global network of Wisemanager
servers from a central point (a la Novell's Bordermanager) via a
directory service at the world is yours!

> It's coming.   All it take is MONEY and TIME.  :=)

Good luck!

--- In eComStation@egroups.com, Carlos de Luna Saenz
<charly@m...> wrote:
> Some tie ago i was invited to give a class in a mexican
university
> about eCommerce and new technologies... what i found was
that there
> are really no breaking new software techs but the
rediscovering of the
> old ones... and Warp is well ahead on that...(or
behind....:)
> i mean... Windows and COM/DCOM is trying to get what corba
(SOM/DSOM)
> has.... Java is a "new" concept that brings the VM back to
us... RIPL
> technology is awsome... a light client and dump terminals
are
> great....

The part that's amazing is how after several years of neglect,
Warp continues to find new life in areas other desktop OSes
wish they can be.

> so i guess he missing point on the past was (maybe) a thin
GUI
> interface (likeNetscape) and  some one to put all of this
togeter.
> So let the world to rediscover the wonders of Warp.
> Greetings

As I said before, within the context of "trying to get
somebody to buy something from somebody" - eCommerce, the
station is a transaction device.  Power on, pop up a browser,
perform a transaction.  Traditional fat-client is way
overkill.   I mean, why would somebody want to load every 5
year classroom with an operating system that takes close to 1G
bytes of disk storage (W2K) is beyond me.

Life should be made simpler with computers.   The currect
state of the industry is lopsided.

> > and especially Solaris on most VolanoMark based tests.
> >
>
> Benchmark testing usually are very meaningful.

Typo: Should have been "Benchmark testing usually are NOT very
meaningful".

Some tie ago i was invited to give a class in a mexican university
about eCommerce and new technologies... what i found was that there
are really no breaking new software techs but the rediscovering of the
old ones... and Warp is well ahead on that...(or behind....:)
i mean... Windows and COM/DCOM is trying to get what corba (SOM/DSOM)
has.... Java is a "new" concept that brings the VM back to us... RIPL
technology is awsome... a light client and dump terminals are
great....
so i guess he missing point on the past was (maybe) a thin GUI
interface (likeNetscape) and  some one to put all of this togeter.
So let the world to rediscover the wonders of Warp.
Greetings
Carlos de Luna

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

On 30/04/00, 17:45:45, kimwaic@... wrote regarding
[eComStation] What's needed?:


> I know that there are many people saying "OS/2 is outdated".
> May be that's from neglect, I don't know.   I have no
> expertise in consumer product and so I have no credibility to
> conter that claim - nor do I intend to.   My focus has always
> been in vertical applications to be used in businesses.   One
> of the hottest and fastest growth area is eBusiness.  Somebody
> once told me that WsEB and OS/2 is rather "weak" out of the
> box for eBusiness.   For one thing, the WebSphere product in
> the WsEB box is way outdated - when compared to their
> counterparts in the AIX, and RS6000 platforms.

> So, let me get the discussion going here - Exactly how
> "outdated" and "weak" are we in the context of eBusiness?


>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/3020/3/_/_/_/957116776/
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> eComStation-unsubscribe@egroups.com

--- In eComStation@egroups.com, russell_kneebone@h... wrote:
> It might be helpful for you to provide your perspective on
how this
> extremely neat product fits into the e-business world, are
you
> thinking kiosk and/or ATM style processing?  Your product
relies on a
> known client machine (with a RIPL network card), after all.

Technology already exists to have a piece of software (very
small piece) go into the flashable BIOS which will then DHCP a
server and from there go into a boot sequence and thanks to
the Linux folks, they have gotten quite a number of common
NICs to work that way.   So, that will remove the RIPL NIC
requirement.


   The
> "traditional" e-business approach (if such a thing exists)
is any
> client, at any location, at any time - hence the
preponderance of
> Java
> and browser-based approaches.
>

Correct.   And more importantly, for somebody to buy something
from someone.   That's how I look at eBusiness.

> IBM have consistently pushed the Java message when talking
e-business
> in the past, and more recently XML when talking business to
business
> e-commerce.  Now we know OS/2 was the first OS with a JVM
supplied,
> but on the server side it has failed to match the
scalability of NT

My focus for the server side is not OS/2.   None of the Intel
based operating system are suited for large scale eBusiness
operations.   Currently we use OS/2 on the server side because
it's there today with the abililty to support remote booting
so cleanly, efficiently, and effortlessly.   However, once the
client machine boots, they can be handed over to a more
scalable box such as a S390, AS400, or Solaris.   A lot of
people are converting server farms back to a mainframe because
they learn the hard way runnign eBusiness with a server farm
does not work.

On the client side, we support OS/2, in addition to the other
OSes because it's there today - again cleanly, efficiently,
and effortlessly.   If we manage to gain access to the SMP
capability of WSeB, it will be able to run Java/XMS aps like
no other client stations can.   We have applications that
spawn off couple thousand threads and the WSeB kernel handles
it like nothing much had happened (very low CPU utilization).
In contrast, it took us over 3 months to see the first W9x
boot and even then, we had to start over again for the next
combination of hardware configuration - it can be done, just
not what I would say "cleanly, efficiently, and effortlessly".

> and especially Solaris on most VolanoMark based tests.
>

Benchmark testing usually are very meaningful.   My believe is
that anybody doing large scale server side eBusiness
deployment on any Intel platform is crazy anyway.

> In terms of providing a portable, rich, desktop "home", I
think
> your approach would suit travel agencies.  These are a good
example
> of
> workforces that are usually fed a controlled desktop and
limited set
> of applications, but that have never really conformed to the
pure
> workplace-oriented site model, having a significant number
of staff
> working part-time from home.  The travel agency business is
rapidly
> transforming into an e-business as agencies set up their own
websites
> and extend the range of products and services they offer.
If you
> could effectively leverage the frame-relay networks provided
by the
> airline reservation systems, you might catch the industry on
the cusp
> as it moves towards browser-based computing but without the
> infrastructure to provide the same speed and reliability
from this
> approach as with the prior "fat-client" offerings.
>

A number of industries have expressed interest to move away
from the traditional fat-client IF someone can point them the
way.   Even Internet users, you are beginning to see QNX based
Internet appliance being sold at a give away price ($99) in
exchange for monthly service fee.   An OS/2 based give away
appliant will be far more attractive than a QNX based device.

> I personally would be interested in seeing you develop
Wisemanager
> for
> other platforms on the server side, the AS/400 and RS/6000
spring to
> mind as good IBM platforms for managing many clients.

It's coming.   All it take is MONEY and TIME.  :=)

There are some PC100 motherboards that are being "hot selling" in
Mexico for Withe Boxes... the problem to me is the sound driver and
modem driver (since they use a kind of Win modem or something like it,
and the modem and sound are in the same chip) i can use a SciTech
driver if they can do that.
Greetings frm Mexico and since today is Labor day there's no work...
so i will drink a tequila on you.
Carlos de Luna

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

On 30/04/00, 19:24:52, Duane Chamblee <duanec@...> wrote regarding
Re: [eComStation] Re: My OS/2 ideas...:


> > Now, if we can convince Scitech to come up with the portable
> > soundcard driver....

> Yes, that would be awsome!

>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/3020/3/_/_/_/957127939/
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> eComStation-unsubscribe@egroups.com

> With remote boot technology, you can actually boot a number of
> different operating systems - Warp 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 4.0, W95,
> W98, Linux and so forth (not NT, and not W2K - they are way
> too big).   The technology demo mentioned here takes the
> Aurora sitting on the server and remote boots it on the
> station.   So, effectively, you have a "Warp 5" running on the
> station.

It might be helpful for you to provide your perspective on how this
extremely neat product fits into the e-business world, are you
thinking kiosk and/or ATM style processing?  Your product relies on a
known client machine (with a RIPL network card), after all.  The
"traditional" e-business approach (if such a thing exists) is any
client, at any location, at any time - hence the preponderance of
Java
and browser-based approaches.

IBM have consistently pushed the Java message when talking e-business
in the past, and more recently XML when talking business to business
e-commerce.  Now we know OS/2 was the first OS with a JVM supplied,
but on the server side it has failed to match the scalability of NT
and especially Solaris on most VolanoMark based tests.

In terms of providing a portable, rich, desktop "home", I think
your approach would suit travel agencies.  These are a good example
of
workforces that are usually fed a controlled desktop and limited set
of applications, but that have never really conformed to the pure
workplace-oriented site model, having a significant number of staff
working part-time from home.  The travel agency business is rapidly
transforming into an e-business as agencies set up their own websites
and extend the range of products and services they offer.  If you
could effectively leverage the frame-relay networks provided by the
airline reservation systems, you might catch the industry on the cusp
as it moves towards browser-based computing but without the
infrastructure to provide the same speed and reliability from this
approach as with the prior "fat-client" offerings.

I personally would be interested in seeing you develop Wisemanager
for
other platforms on the server side, the AS/400 and RS/6000 spring to
mind as good IBM platforms for managing many clients.

--- In eComStation@egroups.com, rothojo@c... wrote:
> What bandwith do you need ?

The critical part is during booting.   The minimum bandwidth
will be what can support about 800K of transfer because that's
the size of the OS/2 kernel.  After that, it depends purely
what shell you use.    Usually I do not use the full Work
Place Shell if this is a 64K line.   I would just bring up a
browser and so forth.   If you have many people booting at the
same time, you can controll the booting to avoid what's call a
"boot storm".

> Would i be as thin as Citrix ? Do you use the ICA-protocol ?

Citrix is not very thin when it comes to bandwidth.   In
addition, there is a very big and fundemental difference
betweeen the remote boot technology in OS/2 vs
Citrix/WinFrame/Terminal Server approach - Who's doing the
processing?

With Citrix/WinFrame/Terminal Server, the client side is
nothing more than that: a terminal - a very dumb terminal
(dumber than a X-server).   All processing is done on the
server.   Every mouse click, every screen paint, is controlled
by the server.   Hence you have people proudly proclaim they
have a 4way Xeon server with 1G memory supporting only 100 or
so people.

With OS/2 remote boot capability, the processing is done on
the client side.   In fact, once you booted, there is very
minimum communication between the server and the client.   You
can have a local drive to store the swapping, you can have
local drive to store things.   As a matter of fact, if the
application is say, a factory production application that's
very small, you can turn off swapping and once the machine
boots, you can take away the communication link between the
server and client, and it will run for ever - until the next
time it needs to boot.

> Could it be run on an 64kb-line ?

It can certainly be done.   It depends on how many people is
on the other side of the 64kb-line.   Since frame relay lines
are not particularly reliable, if you have a dozen of people
on that end, you might as well put a thin server in there so
their work doesn't depend on the frame relay line.

> Could it be installed easily, so even "father" cold make the
> install on WarpServer for e-business ??
>

We are not positioning WiseManager as an end-user product.
We intend to only make it available from Serenity business
partner that are WsEB certified.   We had done a couple of
end-user installations but that's the exception.

The reason is that while WiseManager itself is very easy to
set up, the applications themselve might or might not need
some attention before it can work smoothly - depending on how
the application is packaged.

When things don't work right, it does take a qualified network
person to figure things out - and we simply don't have the
kind of resource to support end-user.

>

What bandwith do you need ?
Would i be as thin as Citrix ? Do you use the ICA-protocol ?
Could it be run on an 64kb-line ?
Could it be installed easily, so even "father" cold make the
install on WarpServer for e-business ??


--- In eComStation@egroups.com, kimwaic@d... wrote:
> --- In eComStation@egroups.com, "Karen Mansbridge-Wood"
> <karen.l.mansbridge-wood@w...> wrote:
> > On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 14:42:04 -0000, kimwaic@d... wrote:
> >
> > That is incredibly cool!
> >
>
> Icredible as it may sound, support for remote booting has
been
> standard OS/2 technology since almost day 1.
Unfortunately
> nobody saw the significance of that until only recent
years.
> With the ever improving bandwidth situation, this
technology
> is everything the ASP players ever wanted Windows to be.

> Now, if we can convince Scitech to come up with the portable
> soundcard driver....

Yes, that would be awsome!

kimwaic@... wrote:
><thanks for the details...I won't repeat them>
> This is VERY OLD technology to OS/2 - yet other OSes have yet
> to caught up on it.   The caveat of being old is that there
> were some limitation in the original technology that places
> some limiation on what can be done.  (a) The fitted name can
> not be mapped back to a local drive - which is what Duane
> wishes to see and it would have been a potent element.   (b)
> The fit table has an absolute size limit of 64K - so absolute
> that it would be like trying to raise the 640K memory limit of
> DOS.

But couldn't a "virtual filesystem" replace/override the "network" one
that the kernal uses... One, the vFS could provide the file redirection
usually in the FIT, and Two, eliminate the need for manipulating this
table much.

Even if the FIT was only used for booting, the vFS could provide all the
other features post boot. In fact most machines would only need a
"login" to have different desktops and settings.

> > 1. The OS/2 disk layout is VERY confusing. I think
> > IBM keeps this layout to allow easy removal and
> > reinstall of these components. In the NC and an
> > improved "NC like" PC load of the OS, the
> > directories could easily be confined to the OS2\...
> > structure.

> I agree totally.  On the other hand, I am actually thinking
> more and more these days, in the context of eBusiness, do we
> really want a eComStation user to SEE any of these?

Correct but developers/beta testers and others will want/need access.
There's no reason the organization can't be more human readable. It also
shortens the environment quite at bit!

> > Integrate IBMCOM, MPTS, TCPIP, MMOS2, LANGUAGE,
> It seems like these days, the majority of the demand is actually for a
> browser based interface.   You turn on a machine, and all you
> see is a browser - which can invoke your office suite like
> StarOffice and SmartSuite.   The browser itself provides all
> of the Internet related functionality, and all of your browser
> based applications.   So, do we want them to even see the
> drives (since there might not be a drive anyway)?

That's right, even home users really only want that. They want to click
on an app and it RUNs. (this is why applications have to have "keys"
access certain files)

> > 2. Dynamic Environ. Move the environment variables
> > for OS/2 sessions to an INI structure. When any new
> > session is started, the environment is loaded from
> > the INI settings. This would work for everything
> > not needed at boot.

> I am seeing VC4.0 getting away from LIBPATH, and so forth
> settings.   They manupulate SETS, BEGINPATH and ENDPATH as you
> start the ap.   Isn't that sufficient?

Actually for the most part yes. Applications can be "self aware" and
find DLLs and other work files related to where they are "running". I've
never understood why it wasn't used more.

> > 3a. "user space". Even on a local machine, it would
> > be nice you use a .FIT type technology to seperate
> > user preferences, desktop, and other "USER" files
> > in a seperate place (a virtual local/network
> > volume/path would do).
> >
>
> I would kill to have that today!!!   Bring back the VMS days.
>
> > 3b. Application profiles. For both local and RPL
> > environments, readonly, machine readwrite, user
> > readwrite need to be seperated. A definition
> > language needs to be defined for app makers to use
> > to define...
> >
> > PROFILE:
> >    My Application
> >    code source: (urls for updates/revs/support)
> > USER FILES: (in "user space")
> >    PREFS.INI
> >    MYDOCUMENT.TXT
> > MACHINE FILES:
> >    SPOOLER\PRINTJOB.XXX
> > READONLY:
> >    PROGRAM.EXE
> >    SUPPORT.DLL
> >
>
> That's done already in WiseManager - but not fully for local
> aps - YET.

I wouldn't think there would be much diffence if local and remote apps
used the same "channels" as the RPL method.
Basically, and local machine RIPLs from files/containers on the
harddrive/CD/whatever. The local boot should use RIPL hooks.

>
> That German package looks promising in this regard.  I hope he
> finishes it.

Yes it does. But it's another "directory" structure that needs to be
developed as an OS/2 virtual distributed object scheme. Like the WPS it
would provide apps with the same "universal" system paths to use (no
matter where the files actually live)

> > 4. Virtual filesystem. To implement things like a
> > user space, a virtual filesystem directory
> > (LDAP!!!) could be used.
>
> Yes, yes, yes!!!    I looked into LDAP client side but I am
> not sure where to get a LDAP server.   Does IBM still sell
> one, or do I have to download the one from the University
> people and port it over to OS/2?

I believe the design is open and there should be a few Open source
versions by now. I don't know if the LDAP toolkit for Warp allows both
host and remote, but it should.

A quick search at http://www.ussc.alltheweb.com/

produced a couple of "server" links.
   http://www.seanster.com/ldap/


> > 4b. Container based. This container could also make
> > "user spaces" be able to exist without the overhead
> > of "system space". Any user puts in their MEM
> > PCcard and the desktop and user files are all
> > theirs. "Private" applications could also be added
> > to the "removable" user card to provide app code
> > that was not available via the net or Harddrive.
> >
>
> It is SORT of like that already in WiseManager - within the
> limitation of the FIT mechanism.
>
> > Anyway, my point is that with EXISTING technology,
> > most of the "problems" with OS/2 remote/local
> > computing can be solved.
> >
> > Being able to service/install/run an the from a
> > source (CD or network) is the point.
> >
> > Imagine any machine with a CD and Network, PCcard,
> > USB Zip, etc device could boot eComStation, with
> > Applications being provided by the
> > server/CD/PCcard. ANY machine could be YOUR
> > workstation.
> >
> > (we wont even get into shutting down and keeping
> > apps OPEN!)
>
> Now, if we can convince Scitech to come up with the portable
> soundcard driver....
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/3019/3/_/_/_/957121130/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> eComStation-unsubscribe@egroups.com

--- In eComStation@egroups.com, "Duane Chamblee" <duanec@n...>
wrote:

Regarding Duane's message, let me help with a little
background materials:

The reason why OS/2 can be "created" in 29 seconds is that the
OS/2 kernel has built in ability to load off something call
the "fit table" sitting on the server side.   The fit table
defines what an application wants to open and the UNC name
that gets translated into.   For instance, the station wants
"C:\OS2\OS2.INI" - which translates into
\\servername\resourcename\somefilename.   So, any application
on the OS/2 station side does not really know - nor it needs
to know - where the file comes from.   It could come from the
server, it could come from another server, it could come from
the net - EXCEPT THAT IT CAN NOT COME FROM THE LOCAL DRIVE
(damn!!!)

So, when I "create" a new machine, what I am really doing is
to create and manupulate the fit table that sits on the server
side, create R/W areas for the station and kick it into boot
action.   This is a vastly superior method to other approaches
which creates an "image" of the os to be used by the station.

This is VERY OLD technology to OS/2 - yet other OSes have yet
to caught up on it.   The caveat of being old is that there
were some limitation in the original technology that places
some limiation on what can be done.  (a) The fitted name can
not be mapped back to a local drive - which is what Duane
wishes to see and it would have been a potent element.   (b)
The fit table has an absolute size limit of 64K - so absolute
that it would be like trying to raise the 640K memory limit of
DOS.

The good news is that technology exists to resolve the two
issues - it only takes money!!!  (<grin>)

> 1. The OS/2 disk layout is VERY confusing. I think
> IBM keeps this layout to allow easy removal and
> reinstall of these components. In the NC and an
> improved "NC like" PC load of the OS, the
> directories could easily be confined to the OS2\...
> structure.

I agree totally.  On the other hand, I am actually thinking
more and more these days, in the context of eBusiness, do we
really want a eComStation user to SEE any of these?   It seems
like these days, the majority of the demand is actually for a
browser based interface.   You turn on a machine, and all you
see is a browser - which can invoke your office suite like
StarOffice and SmartSuite.   The browser itself provides all
of the Internet related functionality, and all of your browser
based applications.   So, do we want them to even see the
drives (since there might not be a drive anyway)?

>
> Integrate IBMCOM, MPTS, TCPIP, MMOS2, LANGUAGE,
> etc. JAVA may be something not to integrate.
>
> 2. Dynamic Environ. Move the environment variables
> for OS/2 sessions to an INI structure. When any new
> session is started, the environment is loaded from
> the INI settings. This would work for everything
> not needed at boot.
>

I am seeing VC4.0 getting away from LIBPATH, and so forth
settings.   They manupulate SETS, BEGINPATH and ENDPATH as you
start the ap.   Isn't that sufficient?

> 3a. "user space". Even on a local machine, it would
> be nice you use a .FIT type technology to seperate
> user preferences, desktop, and other "USER" files
> in a seperate place (a virtual local/network
> volume/path would do).
>

I would kill to have that today!!!   Bring back the VMS days.

> 3b. Application profiles. For both local and RPL
> environments, readonly, machine readwrite, user
> readwrite need to be seperated. A definition
> language needs to be defined for app makers to use
> to define...
>
> PROFILE:
>    My Application
>    code source: (urls for updates/revs/support)
> USER FILES: (in "user space")
>    PREFS.INI
>    MYDOCUMENT.TXT
> MACHINE FILES:
>    SPOOLER\PRINTJOB.XXX
> READONLY:
>    PROGRAM.EXE
>    SUPPORT.DLL
>

That's done already in WiseManager - but not fully for local
aps - YET.

> Only installers can grant what "readonly" files go
> where. Other applications can only read or run any
> other files.
>
> 3c. Build security keys into these areas.
> Installers and other apps CAN access other areas
> when approprately approved by the "security
> admin"/user.
>

That German package looks promising in this regard.  I hope he
finishes it.

> 4. Virtual filesystem. To implement things like a
> user space, a virtual filesystem directory
> (LDAP!!!) could be used. Containing both remote,
> local, and user objects, this file system could
> simplify seperating file spaces and could also be
> hooked into a local "container" so eComStation
> could be booted easily from a different OSes
> harddrive. (this would provide local and remote
> .FIT functionality) FIT hooks + TVFS + LDAP
>

Yes, yes, yes!!!    I looked into LDAP client side but I am
not sure where to get a LDAP server.   Does IBM still sell
one, or do I have to download the one from the University
people and port it over to OS/2?

> 4b. Container based. This container could also make
> "user spaces" be able to exist without the overhead
> of "system space". Any user puts in their MEM
> PCcard and the desktop and user files are all
> theirs. "Private" applications could also be added
> to the "removable" user card to provide app code
> that was not available via the net or Harddrive.
>

It is SORT of like that already in WiseManager - within the
limitation of the FIT mechanism.

> Anyway, my point is that with EXISTING technology,
> most of the "problems" with OS/2 remote/local
> computing can be solved.
>
> Being able to service/install/run an the from a
> source (CD or network) is the point.
>
> Imagine any machine with a CD and Network, PCcard,
> USB Zip, etc device could boot eComStation, with
> Applications being provided by the
> server/CD/PCcard. ANY machine could be YOUR
> workstation.
>
> (we wont even get into shutting down and keeping
> apps OPEN!)


Now, if we can convince Scitech to come up with the portable
soundcard driver....

1. The OS/2 disk layout is VERY confusing. I think
IBM keeps this layout to allow easy removal and
reinstall of these components. In the NC and an
improved "NC like" PC load of the OS, the
directories could easily be confined to the OS2\...
structure.

Integrate IBMCOM, MPTS, TCPIP, MMOS2, LANGUAGE,
etc. JAVA may be something not to integrate.

2. Dynamic Environ. Move the environment variables
for OS/2 sessions to an INI structure. When any new
session is started, the environment is loaded from
the INI settings. This would work for everything
not needed at boot.

3a. "user space". Even on a local machine, it would
be nice you use a .FIT type technology to seperate
user preferences, desktop, and other "USER" files
in a seperate place (a virtual local/network
volume/path would do).

3b. Application profiles. For both local and RPL
environments, readonly, machine readwrite, user
readwrite need to be seperated. A definition
language needs to be defined for app makers to use
to define...

PROFILE:
    My Application
    code source: (urls for updates/revs/support)
USER FILES: (in "user space")
    PREFS.INI
    MYDOCUMENT.TXT
MACHINE FILES:
    SPOOLER\PRINTJOB.XXX
READONLY:
    PROGRAM.EXE
    SUPPORT.DLL

Only installers can grant what "readonly" files go
where. Other applications can only read or run any
other files.

3c. Build security keys into these areas.
Installers and other apps CAN access other areas
when approprately approved by the "security
admin"/user.

4. Virtual filesystem. To implement things like a
user space, a virtual filesystem directory
(LDAP!!!) could be used. Containing both remote,
local, and user objects, this file system could
simplify seperating file spaces and could also be
hooked into a local "container" so eComStation
could be booted easily from a different OSes
harddrive. (this would provide local and remote
.FIT functionality) FIT hooks + TVFS + LDAP

4b. Container based. This container could also make
"user spaces" be able to exist without the overhead
of "system space". Any user puts in their MEM
PCcard and the desktop and user files are all
theirs. "Private" applications could also be added
to the "removable" user card to provide app code
that was not available via the net or Harddrive.

Wow, a lot to chew on. Maybe some "side" threads
should happen.

Anyway, my point is that with EXISTING technology,
most of the "problems" with OS/2 remote/local
computing can be solved.

Being able to service/install/run an the from a
source (CD or network) is the point.

Imagine any machine with a CD and Network, PCcard,
USB Zip, etc device could boot eComStation, with
Applications being provided by the
server/CD/PCcard. ANY machine could be YOUR
workstation.

(we wont even get into shutting down and keeping
apps OPEN!)

I know that there are many people saying "OS/2 is outdated".
May be that's from neglect, I don't know.   I have no
expertise in consumer product and so I have no credibility to
conter that claim - nor do I intend to.   My focus has always
been in vertical applications to be used in businesses.   One
of the hottest and fastest growth area is eBusiness.  Somebody
once told me that WsEB and OS/2 is rather "weak" out of the
box for eBusiness.   For one thing, the WebSphere product in
the WsEB box is way outdated - when compared to their
counterparts in the AIX, and RS6000 platforms.

So, let me get the discussion going here - Exactly how
"outdated" and "weak" are we in the context of eBusiness?

--- In eComStation@egroups.com, "Karen Mansbridge-Wood"
<karen.l.mansbridge-wood@w...> wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 14:42:04 -0000, kimwaic@d... wrote:
>
> That is incredibly cool!
>

Icredible as it may sound, support for remote booting has been
standard OS/2 technology since almost day 1.   Unfortunately
nobody saw the significance of that until only recent years.
With the ever improving bandwidth situation, this technology
is everything the ASP players ever wanted Windows to be.

On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 14:42:04 -0000, kimwaic@... wrote:

>capable.   To get OS/2 running on these computers, all you
>have to do is:
>
>(a) Connect them to the network and turn on the power.
>(b) A screen pops up and ask you for a name, and applications
>you want on that computer.
>(c) 29 seconds later, the operating system is ready, and
>depending on what kind of applications you want, it will take
>another 30 second to a minute for the application to load.
>(d) The machine will auto-reboot and when it comes back up,
>WHOOLA!   OS/2 is ready.

That is incredibly cool!


Karen

Where Do I Want To Go Today?
I want to go where *I* want to go,
Not where MS wants to send me.
-----------------------------------------------
Instant Messenger:  KarenLMW
ICQ#20106159
------------------------------------------------

--- In eComStation@egroups.com, "Karen Mansbridge-Wood"
<karen.l.mansbridge-wood@w...> wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 03:31:37 -0000, kimwaic@d... wrote:
>
> >Hi, everybody.    I wonder how many of you DON'T know what
> >WiseManager is, or have never seen a demo of it?
>
> I'm going to say I don't know what it is.  If I were
"guessing"
> I would wonder if it was an application to allow use of the
> Window's Wise Installer?  How far off am I? <g>
>

I don't know what Window's Wise Installer is (since I hardly
use Windows) but I can guess.   WiseManager is not an
"installer" program.   It's a package for managing a network
of stations utilizing OS/2's remote booting capability.   Say
you have a number of new computers and they are all RIPL
capable.   To get OS/2 running on these computers, all you
have to do is:

(a) Connect them to the network and turn on the power.
(b) A screen pops up and ask you for a name, and applications
you want on that computer.
(c) 29 seconds later, the operating system is ready, and
depending on what kind of applications you want, it will take
another 30 second to a minute for the application to load.
(d) The machine will auto-reboot and when it comes back up,
WHOOLA!   OS/2 is ready.

I've been demonstrating this package at several user group
meetings, WarpStocks, and of course, the up coming WarpTech.

At WarpStock 99, I connected a X10 controller to the server
and when Peter Coffee came to the booth, I handed him a garage
door operer.   When he pressed a button, it triggers a REXX
script which "builds" a bunch of machines right in front of
his eyes.   That's how I got such positive coverage.

With remote boot technology, you can actually boot a number of
different operating systems - Warp 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 4.0, W95,
W98, Linux and so forth (not NT, and not W2K - they are way
too big).   The technology demo mentioned here takes the
Aurora sitting on the server and remote boots it on the
station.   So, effectively, you have a "Warp 5" running on the
station.

On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 03:31:37 -0000, kimwaic@... wrote:

>Hi, everybody.    I wonder how many of you DON'T know what
>WiseManager is, or have never seen a demo of it?

I'm going to say I don't know what it is.  If I were "guessing"
I would wonder if it was an application to allow use of the
Window's Wise Installer?  How far off am I? <g>


Karen

Where Do I Want To Go Today?
I want to go where *I* want to go,
Not where MS wants to send me.
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Hi, everybody.    I wonder how many of you DON'T know what
WiseManager is, or have never seen a demo of it?