On May 4, 2007, at 3:51 PM, John Carlsen wrote:

> It is subjective, I guess, but I probably would trust old Word
> formats more than FileMaker formats, since many more business users
> use and depend on Word than on FileMaker, and businesses are also
> concerned about long-term storage of their documents, are probably
> making it worthwhile to Microsoft to keep their document conversion
> tools accurate. Maybe not; it’s Microsoft, after all. But then,
> FileMaker is the one that cancelled Emailer abruptly with no
> thought for its customers.

Actually I think that was a Claris (Steve) decision.
>
> Trust no one. Keep all data in current formats, but wait a while
> after a software upgrade, to be sure it is a good format. Anyone
> who still has their archived email in FMP 3 format eMA archives, is
> risking that someday it may not be readable.
>
>> Saving data in a format that makes it easy to manage and access in
>> the long run is quite a challenge.  I'd like to put my information
>> in formats that could be accessed several hundred years from now.
>> I have strong confidence in plain text, .csv, plain html, xml,
>> pdf, GEDCOM, jpeg and a few others. Lower but some confidence in
>> MS Word and FIleMaker. Almost no confidence in most other formats.
>
> We all have problems when we consider long term data storage.
> Libraries converting books to digital format are very concerned
> about their chosen formats being readable at all in some time in
> the future.
>
> Basically, the only good idea I know of is to always keep our
> archives backed up, but always convert all of them to new standards
> as they arise, and back them up. In some cases they should be
> archived in two very different formats, just in case. There is not
> as much danger with digital media of losing data and fidelity when
> making successive copies as with the old photocopy way, and doing
> so is much more likely to preserve your data than keeping a decade-
> old format that you can no longer read.
>
> If you have strong confidence in .csv and XML formats, note that
> instead of always converting FMP files to keep them up do date, you
> could simply use FileMaker’s Export Records... commands to archive
> your databases. Hey, at  least there are still lots of options.


Just look at the different formats you can export to from FileMaker,
Unlike many DBs it is very easy to get data in and out.

Heck make a PDF of the msgs in your eMa if you want to ;-)  - just
not much fun to go looking

I've been using FileMaker since 1985. FileMaker has changed it's underlying data
structures a few times. I have some older FileMaker databases that can no longer
be opened by the most recent versions of FileMaker -- I have to go back to older
versions of FileMaker and hope they still run on my current OS. At some point I
suppose I should covert the older formats to newer formats. I just haven't
gotten around to it. I have some older MS Word files as well that I can no
longer seem to open but a friend says I just need to get an extra plugin for
Word.

Saving data in a format that makes it easy to manage and access in the long run
is quite a challenge.  I'd like to put my information in formats that could be
accessed several hundred years from now. I have strong confidence in plain text,
.csv, plain html, xml, pdf, GEDCOM, jpeg and a few others. Lower but some
confidence in MS Word and FIleMaker. Almost no confidence in most other formats.

Cheers,
Tim

>On May 3, 2007, at 12:56 am, beatnikpad wrote:
>To me, it is almost as dangerous as putting it all back into
>Entourage, whose database formats are really proprietary. I think
>that FileMaker is likely to be around for longer than Mail or
>Entourage, and even if FileMaker goes extinct. I have been using
>FileMaker since about 1995, and both Apple and Microsoft have changed
>their email applications for Mac several times since then.

On May 3, 2007, at 12:56 am, beatnikpad wrote:

> I have to admit I'd love to get information on how to do this, too.
> I have a very old eMA database that I'd like to convert to the OS X
> 10.4 Mail mbox format.

You are not the first to ask about converting from eMA to mbox format.

Of course, eMA was written to get email out of various applications’
different versions of mbox, proprietary database, etc. There was
little thought given to wanting to reverse the process.

At one time, I included in eMA a simple “save to text file” command,
where each file had the specific format that I made up. I assume that
something like that could be written to “save records to mbox format”
No one seemed to notice when I forgot to include it in a new eMA
version, so I never reinstated it.

“Standard” mbox format would be fairly easy to achieve (assuming you
can program in either FileMaker Pro or AppleScript, and assuming you
know that format in detail), since the mboxes are just plain text
files. You could access each eMessage record, and its fields, with a
FileMaker Pro script or use AppleScript to access them from either
FileMaker Pro or from eMA’s free runtime application, which is also
scriptable. Then, standard functions could be used to reformat each
field in the correct mbox order and formats. then you can export the
result to a text file with the correct extension.

Some email applications can then import such text mboxes. Probably
Mail can.

> Back when Mail.app was *very* slow with large email stores it made
> sense to export email periodically, and eMA worked great for that.
> With Spotlight now, though, it's much more attractive to have a
> global store of email that is searchable, and eMA's "closed"
> database structure is a bit of a hindrance.

I believe that I have seen somewhere that there is a Spotlight plugin
that allows it to access FileMaker to search the data. I may be wrong
about that.

Also, you can use eMA’s Print button to “print” all of the records at
once into a PDF file. This will then already be accessible from
Spotlight. You can also make each record into a separate PDF file.
With a little extra FileMaker Pro scripting, you may be able to set
it to name each file with its message Subject, but I have not
investigated this possibility.

Note that eMA’s data structure is just standard FileMaker data
structure, and is “open” to AppleScript access. I don’t think that
Mail’s actual stored format is any more “open” than that. You can
only access it by AppleScript. Mail does not actually save its
messages in simple standard mbox format (look in the Library/Mail
folder and try to find it!), so you have to let Mail do the
conversion to it’s “mbox” format, and they have already changed that
format several times.

To me, it is almost as dangerous as putting it all back into
Entourage, whose database formats are really proprietary. I think
that FileMaker is likely to be around for longer than Mail or
Entourage, and even if FileMaker goes extinct. I have been using
FileMaker since about 1995, and both Apple and Microsoft have changed
their email applications for Mac several times since then.

If FileMaker goes out of business, then it would be straightforward
to transfer the data fields directly to another database application,
though probably the scripts for archiving would have to be replaced
or modified.

> I really appreciate all of the work you've put into eMA and I hope
> this doesn't belittle your commitment, but my email usage habits
> have changed quite a bit since I first started using eMA so it
> would be great to have some way to transition my data out of the
> eMA database file.

No problem. If in the full context of my needs I found a better way
to access my email, I would stop using it, too. :-)

Just be careful.

> Any ideas? The file I have is from FileMaker Pro 5.

Note that eMA 4.10b5, just released, can import that database in the
new format. You can even use eMA Filer to upgrade to FileMaker 8.5
level (but without scripting and design options), without having to
buy a new FileMaker Pro. I have not extended my import script back
before old eMA 3.0 yet, but I will get there. If you need that, ask
for it.

John

Hi Steve,
(For some reason, your message never ended up in my email mailbox. I just
noticed it here
for the first time on the Yahoo eMA-Talk site. So a lot of other subscribers may
have
missed it also.)

--- In eMA-Talk@yahoogroups.com, "faunistic" <steve@...> wrote:
> I need to grab a folder of received messages (in Apple Mail). These messages
are sent
via
> FormMail. I need a solution that would parse the data in each email, and place
the data
into
> the appropriate fields in FileMaker. FormMail output looks like this:
> ÊÊÊÊÊquestion: answer
> ÊÊÊÊÊquestion: answer
> ÊÊÊÊÊquestion: answer
> Does anyone know of such a beastie?

You probably realize this point, but eMessage Archiver removes email from Apple
Mail
(and several other applications) and puts them into FileMaker fields.

The entire text body of the message is therefore put into a single field in
FileMaker. I
presume that the Òquestion: answerÓ format of the data lines is in plain text in
the original
email message body.

The easiest solution to then further parsing the text in that body field is thus
made easier,
if you know a little about FileMaker Pro scripting. That is, you can add to the
same
database a new Òcalculated fieldÓ which automatically grabs the body text, uses
standard
FileMaker text functions to find and process those lines, change them to the
parsed format
you want, and output the data into the new calculated field.

Still assuming a rather basic knowledge of FileMaker design you could miinimally
change
one of the tabs that I already have in the Message View, to resize or remove the
original
body field to make space right there for the new parsed data field.

There are numerous other things you could do also, like making a new layout or
view to
just display the parsed data, or maybe export each record to an external text
file.

Alternatively, if this is your only need, skip FileMaker Pro entirely, and use a
rather simple
AppleScript to grab just the message field from a message, process the field
with
AppleScript, and then create a text file for the output.

> Is anyone willing to make such a beastie for $$$?

To anyone with elementary skills in FileMaker Pro scripting, the modifications
of my
database should be very easy. Similarly for the second suggestion for anyone who
knows
enough AppleScript to access a message field and make a text file.

Anyone on this group want to try it? Easy way to earn some quick bucks.

Not me, however, since I am currently having trouble finding enough time for eMA
development.

John

I have to admit I'd love to get information on how to do this, too. I
have a very old eMA database that I'd like to convert to the OS X 10.4
Mail mbox format.

Back when Mail.app was *very* slow with large email stores it made
sense to export email periodically, and eMA worked great for that.
With Spotlight now, though, it's much more attractive to have a global
store of email that is searchable, and eMA's "closed" database
structure is a bit of a hindrance.

I really appreciate all of the work you've put into eMA and I hope
this doesn't belittle your commitment, but my email usage habits have
changed quite a bit since I first started using eMA so it would be
great to have some way to transition my data out of the eMA database file.

Any ideas? The file I have is from FileMaker Pro 5.

Hello -

I need to grab a folder of received messages (in Apple Mail). These messages are
sent via
FormMail. I need a solution that would parse the data in each email, and place
the data into
the appropriate fields in FileMaker. FormMail output looks like this:

question: answer
question: answer
question: answer

Does anyone know of such a beastie? Is anyone willing to make such a beastie for
$$$?

Thanks,

Steve

Hi, All,

Due to the long, long development time on eMA and the many problems with the
recent
versions, I've reluctantly abandoned eMA in favor of another solution. I'd like
to have all my
email archives in a single database, but the new solution only imports mbox
folders. Does
anyone have any idea how to go about converting the eMA database to mbox? I can
of
course convert the eMA database to the standard formats, but I can't find a way
to get any
of files in any of those formats into an mbox file.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks.

Dave Sawyer

I'm glad. I still have not yet used eMA yet but I still plan to. I'm still
evaluating the best long term email archiving solutions for me. I currently use
Eudora on the Mac. Eudora is transitioning from a commercial product to an open
source product.

I've released one simple FileMaker solution under an open source license. If you
would like to see how I did this, please see the solution (Coach's Game Card) as
it is posted at:
http://openyouth.org/resources.html

Cheers,
Tim

At 6:36 PM -0400 3/23/07, John Carlsen wrote:
>Hi,
>
>No, I am not planning to abandon eMA, yet. :-)

problems with b10

On Mar 23, 2007, at 6:36 PM, John Carlsen wrote:

I downloaded it.

I put it into a folder

I got rid of the earlier beta AS applications

I run the eMessage Database.ema
I set it to in and out with Mail

I run the Update Lists script

It gets all my folders

I try to run it against a single folder  I get

Error -1728 in 'dMessage Archiver'
Using OS 10.4.9 AS 1.10.7 intel, using Mail 2.1.1 FileMaker runtime
8.5v1 eMA Script 4.10 b4 eMa Database 4.10b 4

DoCommand: Archive: LogMessage: Object not found.


Error -2723 Could not make an entry in the databas's Error Log.  The
varialble  ErrMsg is not definded.

original error -1728: DoCommand: Archive:: LogMessage: Object not found.

On Mar 23, 2007, at 6:36 PM, John Carlsen wrote:

> Hi,
>
> No, I am not planning to abandon eMA, yet.    :-)
>
>
> I await your responses. Whatever they are, I won't be offended.
> Perhaps even relieved. ;-)

John,
    I would be willing to be part of a "group".  I consider myself a
filemaker expert, that knows something about Applescript and lots of
other stuff ;-)

I have used eMa forever.  I want to keep using it.  I would be
willing to work, especially on the FileMaker part.

I am an FSA member and have access to FMPA so I could create runtimes.

I have LOTs of mail going back for over a decade.


> --
> Cheers,
>     John
>
>
>

on 8/2/07 16:00, Bob Freeman at bobfreemanma@... wrote:

> Well, I'm more inclined to agree with Paul's suggestion to restrict
> the focus to the main mail clients. I've been using eMA and am a
> little frustrated that I have to go back to FMPro v6 to get mail
> imports from Eudora to work flawlessly.
>
> John: Have you ever considered opening up the development to work
> collaboratively with those of us out here who do quite a bit of
> programming? I certainly would be willing to throw my time into
> getting the product up to snuff. And concerning the shareware fees:
> don't want any part of the cut, and I'm sure any developers who help
> with eMA would be willing to work on some deal for their own fee.
>
> Anyhow, my $0.02.
>
> Bob

Sounds like sense to me - it's the modern way!

I've never set up an Open Source project but am participating in a few
(slightly) using Subversion - presumably you go to Source Forge or similar
and make an account?

I'd be glad to chip in  here and there as time allow, and am also happy to
pay to do it! :)

My two penneth

jonny

Well, I'm more inclined to agree with Paul's suggestion to restrict
the focus to the main mail clients. I've been using eMA and am a
little frustrated that I have to go back to FMPro v6 to get mail
imports from Eudora to work flawlessly.

John: Have you ever considered opening up the development to work
collaboratively with those of us out here who do quite a bit of
programming? I certainly would be willing to throw my time into
getting the product up to snuff. And concerning the shareware fees:
don't want any part of the cut, and I'm sure any developers who help
with eMA would be willing to work on some deal for their own fee.

Anyhow, my $0.02.

Bob

>________________________________________________________________________
>
>1d. Re: To All - 6 weeks without Mac causes "slight" eMA delay!
>     Posted by: "Neil" lists@... mambomanic
>     Date: Wed Feb 7, 2007 8:49 pm ((PST))
>
>On Feb 7, 2007, at 11:23 PM, Paul Berkowitz wrote:
>
>>  Or just end it now.
>
>Ouch!  That sounds harsh.

>________________________________________________________________________
>
>1c. Re: To All - 6 weeks without Mac causes "slight" eMA delay!
>     Posted by: "Paul Berkowitz" berkowit@... berkowit28
>     Date: Wed Feb 7, 2007 8:24 pm ((PST))
>
>Come on, John. You know you know you will never finish this project; it will
>never be complete. This has gone on for about 6 years now, and the end never
>gets any closer. Instead, new email clients and versions evolve and you
>start new branches to add them. The end gets further and further away. Then
>FMP comes out with a new version and you start all over again.
>
>Why don't you restrict yourself to just Mail (which spawns a new version
>with every new Mac OS), Entourage, and the final version of Eudora (just
>because that's where you started, otherwise scrap that too since it's
>end-of-lifed, dead, dead, dead) for just the two most recent versions of FMP
>and finish the damn thing. Stop all your other interests and stick with it
>'til you're done.
>
>Or just end it now.
>
>--
Paul Berkowitz
--

-----------------------------------------------------
Bob Freeman, Ph.D.
Bioinformatics consultant
51 Downer Avenue, #2
Dorchester, MA  02125
617/699.7057, vox

If brains were taxed, he'd get a refund.
-- Anonymous

Come on, John. You know you know you will never finish this project; it will
never be complete. This has gone on for about 6 years now, and the end never
gets any closer. Instead, new email clients and versions evolve and you
start new branches to add them. The end gets further and further away. Then
FMP comes out with a new version and you start all over again.

Why don't you restrict yourself to just Mail (which spawns a new version
with every new Mac OS), Entourage, and the final version of Eudora (just
because that's where you started, otherwise scrap that too since it's
end-of-lifed, dead, dead, dead) for just the two most recent versions of FMP
and finish the damn thing. Stop all your other interests and stick with it
'til you're done.

Or just end it now.

--
Paul Berkowitz


> From: John Carlsen <ThinkAgain@...>
> Reply-To: <eMA-Talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 18:17:40 -0500
> To: eMA-Talk <eMA-Talk@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: To All - 6 weeks without Mac causes "slight" eMA delay!
>
> Hi all,
>
> As if the over a year delay after beta 3 were not enough, now my iMac
> (which I love) has for several months been causing me increasing
> delays. Finally, after destroying many files, including some eMA
> ones, it then just stopped working, and I could not restart it at
> all. It has taken six weeks, even with AppleCare extended warrantee,
> and they are still trying to fix it.
>
> After replacing the iMac's power supply and the main logic board, now
> they are waiting again for replacement parts from Apple. This time
> they are going to replace the internal disk drive. And this time
> their estimate was for, uh, two days ago.Š
>
> Thus, since before the holidays, I have been without a computer to
> work on. So eMA is delayed again. At least it is not my fault this time.
>
> Oh, yes, I did have my old PowerBook G3 as a backup computer, and
> yes, I had thought to back  up my eMA stuff to it just before the
> iMac's final failure. It seemed surprisingly slow compared to the
> iMac, and the screen seemed to be getting progressively dimmer, and
> finally, after a week, that computer also died, also without warning.
>
> That is all for now, about where beta 4 is, and I am strongly
> resisting adding several more paragraphs about my "very interesting"
> ordeal. OK, I won't. :-)
> --
> Cheers, John
>
> PS: don't be surprised if my email silence takes a while more. But I
> will get back when I can.
>
>
> When reporting problems or bugs:
>      If you got an error alert, eMA tries to put the full error message in the
> "Error Log" (Scripts or eMA menu), along with all version information I need
> to give you a reply relevant to your setup. Just copy this text information
> from the Error Log and paste it into your problem report, along with as many
> other details that you remember about what happened and when it happened.
>
> If the error message is not in the Error Log, try to quote the alert's message
> (or send a picture) and your versions of eMA, the database application used,
> your email application, and the Mac OS that you are using. along with a
> description of the problem.
>
> The eMA web site always has the latest eMessage Archiver versions. It is at:
>        <http://homepage.mac.com/ThinkAgain/Mac/eMA/>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Hi John

Sounds grim - i can only suggest one thing - shopping! :)

It should help (a tiny weenie bit) that i paid my registration again a
couple of weeks ago (8 Jan) due to new installation etc and it being several
years since i sent you any money - i expect your hardware woes will be the
reason i haven't had a license back yet - sorry this has turned into a
support mail, i really didn't intend it to be (i'd forgotten actually).

Anyway, best of luck getting hold of a new toy and here's to the next
version of eMA!

jonny B


on 7/2/07 23:17, John Carlsen at ThinkAgain@... wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> As if the over a year delay after beta 3 were not enough, now my iMac
> (which I love) has for several months been causing me increasing
> delays. Finally, after destroying many files, including some eMA
> ones, it then just stopped working, and I could not restart it at
> all. It has taken six weeks, even with AppleCare extended warrantee,
> and they are still trying to fix it.
>
> After replacing the iMac's power supply and the main logic board, now
> they are waiting again for replacement parts from Apple. This time
> they are going to replace the internal disk drive. And this time
> their estimate was for, uh, two days ago.Š
>
> Thus, since before the holidays, I have been without a computer to
> work on. So eMA is delayed again. At least it is not my fault this time.
>
> Oh, yes, I did have my old PowerBook G3 as a backup computer, and
> yes, I had thought to back  up my eMA stuff to it just before the
> iMac's final failure. It seemed surprisingly slow compared to the
> iMac, and the screen seemed to be getting progressively dimmer, and
> finally, after a week, that computer also died, also without warning.
>
> That is all for now, about where beta 4 is, and I am strongly
> resisting adding several more paragraphs about my "very interesting"
> ordeal. OK, I won't. :-)

Hi all,

As if the over a year delay after beta 3 were not enough, now my iMac
(which I love) has for several months been causing me increasing
delays. Finally, after destroying many files, including some eMA
ones, it then just stopped working, and I could not restart it at
all. It has taken six weeks, even with AppleCare extended warrantee,
and they are still trying to fix it.

After replacing the iMac's power supply and the main logic board, now
they are waiting again for replacement parts from Apple. This time
they are going to replace the internal disk drive. And this time
their estimate was for, uh, two days ago.…

Thus, since before the holidays, I have been without a computer to
work on. So eMA is delayed again. At least it is not my fault this time.

Oh, yes, I did have my old PowerBook G3 as a backup computer, and
yes, I had thought to back  up my eMA stuff to it just before the
iMac's final failure. It seemed surprisingly slow compared to the
iMac, and the screen seemed to be getting progressively dimmer, and
finally, after a week, that computer also died, also without warning.

That is all for now, about where beta 4 is, and I am strongly
resisting adding several more paragraphs about my "very interesting"
ordeal. OK, I won't. :-)
--
Cheers, John

PS: don't be surprised if my email silence takes a while more. But I
will get back when I can.

Hi,

And a Happy New Year to all (that's still a valid greeting, isn't it?)

With the change of the year I want to create the 2007-mail archive. I
did so but after  setting preferences I couldn't Update lists.
(STRANGE! While writing this I gave it another shot and now it worked)

Anyhow I might as well finish describing my experience. Who knows if
it happens again som other time?

After not succeeding in creating a new archive, I tried copying an
existing database, deleting all the messages and using the prefs and
set up from that. Here's when more fun struck. In trying to set the
prefs I was met by the following:

and

When I hit OK I was sent to the Archiving Set Up where I tried to
Update Lists resulting in these messages:

and

Any ideas what might be causing this annoyance

Thanks for any help and in the hope that everybody is happy, healthy
and doing good for the environment :-)

Carsten

Hi John,

I think I am having a similar issue.  Here is the full text of one of
the errors:
----------------------

ERROR: Thursday, November 9, 2006 7:11:04 AM
OS 10.4.8, Eudora, FileMaker, eMA 0403 , db version 0402.

Looping thru messages: Error -1700 in message:
     Returned mail: Too many hops 2…

ArchiveMessage, msg not archived:  GetCorrespondents:
Getting sender, recipients:
GetRecipientsInfo:
Can't make {"To: <ircc@...>", "To: postmaster@..."} into
type number.

----------------------

I have about 30 such errors in the log out of 27,400 messages
archived.  I am using OS X version 10.4.8 on Powermac g4 with dual
processors.  Thanks in advance for your assistance and for writing
such a cool application!


-Dave



--- In eMA-Talk@yahoogroups.com, John Carlsen <ThinkAgain@...> wrote:
>
> [I am also posting this reply to the eMA-Talk message board. You
> might want to join us there, where more ideas might be available.]
>
> On Nov 1, 2006, at 8:59 am, steve smith wrote:
>
> > I've used eMA successfully on another OS X Mac but I'm having
> > trouble on my iBook. I downloaded the app fine from the web, set it
> > all up, and started archiving. But I keep getting messages that say
> > "Error -1700" and a long string of stuff about the message which
> > was not archived. At this point, 56 error msgs out of 235 emails to
> > archive. Any ideas?
> >
> > Here's a screenshot so you can see what I see--over 300 times!
>
> I take it that you are using version eMA 4.02 or earlier, from the
> screenshot you sent. Much the information I usually need is usually
> in the error message header, which can usually be be found in eMA's
> Error Log, which would also have the complete error message.
> Unfortunately, the error messsage was too long for the dialog to
> display at once, so I can't see what AppleScript couldn't make item
> 25 into. So, as a hint for future error reports, please copy the
> entire error message from the Error Log and paste it into your email,
> if the eMA script has sent it there.
>
> Anyway ;-) I do sort of remember other reports of that error. It did
> not seem to affect most users, but it was a problem for a few others.
> I did a quick check by downloading a fresh copy of eMA 4.02 and doing
> some random archiving, in test mode. There was no problem. It passed
> through that part of the script hundreds of times.
>
> So I suggest the following steps:
>
> 1) If you are using an eMA version earlier than the current one,
> 4.02, please update to that and try again. If you are using 4.02, you
> might try the rather untested version 4.03b1, at:
>                http://homepage.mac.com/thinkagain/files/eMA403b1.sit
> It was released to just fix a rare bug for some other users. But it
> was an informal release, and I did not document what problem it cured.
>
> 2) If the error message is saved in the Error Log, copy the whole
> message there to your email report. Otherwise, try to see the end of
> the error message dialog and include that.
>
> 3) If you haven't already, try archiving from a different mailbox. It
> may be that one has mail of some special format.
>
> This might help me to figure out your error messages.
>
> OR, since you are starting anew on a different computer, you might
> want to just try the latest beta version, eMA 4.10b3. This has lots
> of improvements, especially for Mail, even though I have not finished
> all that I want to do for the final 4.10 version.
>
> > I'm running System OS 10.4.8, iBook G4, 1.33 GHz PPC, 256 MB,
> > archiving out of Mail.
> --
> Cheers,
>      John
>