--- In eccopro@yahoogroups.com, two.olives@g... wrote:
>I've been
> following with some interest the occasional discussion regarding
> Netmanage possibly open sourcing the app, and I'm dissapointed that
> more progress isn't being made (although I can't especially blame
> Netmanage).

Ben then, they've been sitting on the source code since 1997, so they
aren't known for speedy decisions anyway. No feedback since November,
either positive or negative, so it's pretty likely that talks are
still under way, or I would have expected whoever from this group is
engaged in the talks to tell us how it went.

Now, if Ecco is indeed open-sourced, I wonder if the code will be in a
good enough shape to resume coding, or if it'll only be useful as a
source of ideas but must be rewritten from scratch.

Fred.

Despite the lack of visible progress, Jeff Sonnabend seems to be working
hard on the open source angle, and he deserves a lot of credit for
getting the ball rolling on that and pursuing it.  If Ecco is ever
open-sourced, I personally pledge to get it compiled and working on Mac
OS X with Darwine (I already use Ecco on OS X under Virtual PC, but a
native Ecco would be great).

As for your main question:  a new, built-from-scratch Ecco would be a
tremendous amount of work.  It's hard to really appreciate how good Ecco
is, both from the perspective of being rock solid and bug free, as well
as having a very polished, usable user interface (complete with tabs,
the current fad in the UI world) unless you scout around looking at the
competition.  Spend some time with Microsoft OneNote, or OmniOutliner,
or Aquaminds Notetaker, or Circus Ponies Notebook, or ADM, and each one
has some pluses and flashy features, but there's always something that
kills it, either from a UI perspective or a stability perspective (e.g.
OmniOutliner is powerful, has columns, and is programmable, but has some
extraordinarily annoying scrolling bugs).  Remember that Ecco had seven
years of testing and bug-removal by a dedicated team of testers at
Arabesque and Netmanage.  If we started building Ecco from scratch,
there would be a period of at least a couple years where the program
would be quite buggy, and there is no guarantee that the UI would
converge to something truly usable unless there were some very dedicated
programmers on the team who care about usability.  I just don't think it
would be worth it, given that Ecco works great now and will likely
continue to work well into the future.

The real motivation to build Ecco from scratch would be to add new
features, but what really does Ecco need that can't be implemented
through its current scripting engine?  I've thought about this a lot,
and most nontrivial features would seriously complicate the user
interface.  The obvious new feature would be arbitrary clones (i.e.
allowing items to have more than one parent), but aside from breaking
the whole elegant outline metaphor that exists throughout Ecco, this one
feature would add user interface complications throughout the whole
program.  About the only new feature that makes sense to me would be a
checkbox option (on a per-notepad basis) to not display context parents,
similar to the way the Phonebook works now.  This would give Ecco true
"hoisting" abilities, similar to what hardcore outliners like More and
GrandView used to have, and the overall impact on the program would be
small.  I'd also like to be able to have multiple calendars and
phonebooks, but this can be simulated with filters already.

-- Chris

two.olives@... wrote:

>Hi all. I'm relatively new to Ecco (discovered it about 2 months ago)
>and can't seem to find anything else that I like better.  I've been
>following with some interest the occasional discussion regarding
>Netmanage possibly open sourcing the app, and I'm dissapointed that
>more progress isn't being made (although I can't especially blame
>Netmanage).
>
>Has the idea every been brought up for us users to create our own open
>source evolution of Ecco? Obviously, copyrights etc would need to be
>respected, but who better to derive a featureset and UI than the
>poeple who have been using this program for years? I personally think
>Ecco has stood the test of time exceedingly well, but its age is
>occasionally evident (SP2 install errors, problems with Palm sync
>etc..). I'm envisioning a system, entirely open-sourced based on an OS
>database, with a fairly robust plugin architecture (yeah, I know -
>just like every other OS app our there today). I don't know how many
>software developers we have as users, but I'm imagining there are at
>least a few. I have marginal talents myself (just a hearty appetite
>for getting myself into things I shouldn't be).
>
>I'd very interested to hear everyone's opinion.. I find this group to
>be a wonderfully diverse and helpful audience.
>
>Daniel
>
>
>

First of all let me state that I like Ecco very much and I regard it
as one of the best, if not THE best PIM application around (although I
do also have good memories about Polaris Packrat). Especially the very
elegant combination of a PIM-style databse with the outlining
user-interface is impressive. I've been using outliners for decades
now (started with PC-outline under DOS) so this aspect is very
important for me.

However, after installing Ecco en setting up a fairly complete system
with it I got spooked by the several messages about problems with
installing and some times database corruption. I already did set up a
daily backup routine that keeps several copies from the last days to
counter any database problems. I also ran into some of the specific
behaviours that Ecco has towards Palm sync. Everything together made
me decide to move away from Ecco (for now) as this application is
mission-critical for my own company and I can not afford to spend one
or more days trying to counter the possible problems if and when they
arise. Besides this I need serious CRM-capabilities and from my point
of view Ecco falls short here. But because Ecco is purely a
PIM-application that is understandable. However, it would be nice if
Ecco could do this as well.

This all brings me to the point that is being discussed in this
thread. I'm thinking seriously about starting a Open Source project to
build a great PIM-app. I know that there are several other options
being developed as well, but I think a choice is not a bad thing.

The way I'm looking at it right now is to develop a PIM-app that
borrows a lot from the way Ecco works (outlines, linking columns to
fields, etc.), but adds a lot of other stuff that I know from other
apps like the option to map certain fields to the palm-sync and
especially more options to be able to automate things for the end-user
(for those that know Commence, I'm thinking about their agent-system
here). Also, for a PIM to be really effective AND competitive it MUST
include email-functionality on a serious level of quility and
usability. Developing a good requirement specification would clearly
be the first thing to do.

I want to develop the application in Java for cross-platform
functionality. Using Java also opens up a whole host of ready
available stable components for the development. No need to develop
the complete app from scratch as there are great Java-components
available in the Open Source world that can shorten development to a
very large extend. After the definition of the requirement
specification we would scout for available and usable components.

I'm almost sure that IF Netmanage will Open Source Ecco, that it would
  need to be rewritten from scratch anyway to bring it up to todays
standards. For example, it would be wise to at least move it to work
on top of an open source SQL-database, if only to provide a simple
(SQL) interface to other apps to access the data (think OpenOffice).
So I see no real reason to wait for this. If and when Netmanage moves
to open source we can use that in this project as well.

I'm in the process of setting up a project portal to open source
several of my own (formerly commercial) projects. I like to add that
my company did develop several technologies that might be very usefull
in a PIM-project. One example is a system (actually a protocol) that
uses XML to synchronise clients in a workgroup scenario without the
need of a server and with each client running it's own local database.
When I launch this Open Source project portal it would be nice to
start a PIM-oriented project, so I'm very interested in everyone's
opinion in this regard.

I like to add a note about Chandler: I'm sure that this will become a
great app. However, from my point of view the best way is to use Java
and as much ready available components as possible. The
Chandler-project seems to aim at creating a 'platform' more than just
an application. That might be very usefull, but also needs a whole lot
more development. Where Chandler is developing it's own API's I'm
looking to use as much available API's and developing new ones as
least as possible. There's more to say about it, but I reserve that
for future discussions.

I'm looking forward to your replies :-)

Hans Peter.

--- In eccopro@yahoogroups.com, Chris Thompson <thompson.chris@g...>
wrote:
...
> getting the ball rolling on that and pursuing it.  If Ecco is ever
> open-sourced, I personally pledge to get it compiled and working on Mac
> OS X with Darwine (I already use Ecco on OS X under Virtual PC, but a
> native Ecco would be great).
>

Chris,
if I had anything as good as ECCO on the Mac platform, I wouldn't
hesitate one single moment to switch completly to the Mac OS (despite
the fact that I have made some investment in software on the Windows
platform). This one little program is the sole reason I stick to the
windows world.

...

> OmniOutliner is powerful, has columns, and is programmable, but has
some
> extraordinarily annoying scrolling bugs).

Has OmniOutliner folders? Is it comparable to ECCO in its basic features?

I mean, is there really nothing that is comparable to ECCO? (I have
tried NoteMap some time ago, but that's just an outliner. It has no
folders, no columns, etc.)

I asked myself what the features are that I like most in ECCO. I
couldn't really answer. So I started with the opposite question: Which
of the features would I give up if I had to. (Just want to know what
it is that I like most, so that I can look around for comparable
software). I think I could give up the calendar and the
adressbook-feature. (Though I love it's tickler section. Just created
so many tickler-sections - my own layout for a calendar, so to speak.
Where else can I do that?)

So what really makes up the core-ECCO for me is it's excellent
outlining feature (with all the shortcuts that make me move around
ideas and re-group them etc) plus its concept of folders. And add to
that the columns and cross linking (the latter reminds me of
relational databases). Et voila: The ECCO features that I love most.

Isn't there anything else that has these features? I really get angry
and sad if I think of not being able to use this software sometime in
the future because my OS is not gonna work with it anymore.

Greetings,
-Ugur

Keep in mind that the people complaining about database corruption are
usually those who are using synchronization or who have very big files,
approaching the 32k item limit.  For most people, Ecco is rock solid,
especially in comparison to other apps.  Microsoft OneNote slows down
enormously if you start creating outlines with more than a thousand
items, and OmniOutliner is unusable with a couple thousand top-level
outline items, etc.  Sometimes we Ecco users who complain about the 32k
item limit don't really realize just how good we have it.  We're already
working with files an order of magnitude more complex than what much of
the competition can handle.

With respect to your proposed software, I'd encourage you to pursue
whatever project excites you, especially if you have the time.  The
project you describe seems very ambitious to me.  You want to clone
Ecco's functionality, plus build a full-featured email client, plus add
serious CRM capabilities... that's an enormous amount of work, certainly
more than a man-year of full-time development.  If you think you can do
it though, go for it.  Before you do, it might be worthwhile
reconsidering whether or not to your efforts might be better spent
towards reviving outlining integration in Chandler, or even adding
outlining to Evolution.

-- Chris

softechmatrix wrote:

>First of all let me state that I like Ecco very much and I regard it
>as one of the best, if not THE best PIM application around (although I
>do also have good memories about Polaris Packrat). Especially the very
>elegant combination of a PIM-style databse with the outlining
>user-interface is impressive. I've been using outliners for decades
>now (started with PC-outline under DOS) so this aspect is very
>important for me.
>
>However, after installing Ecco en setting up a fairly complete system
>with it I got spooked by the several messages about problems with
>installing and some times database corruption. I already did set up a
>daily backup routine that keeps several copies from the last days to
>counter any database problems. I also ran into some of the specific
>behaviours that Ecco has towards Palm sync. Everything together made
>me decide to move away from Ecco (for now) as this application is
>mission-critical for my own company and I can not afford to spend one
>or more days trying to counter the possible problems if and when they
>arise. Besides this I need serious CRM-capabilities and from my point
>of view Ecco falls short here. But because Ecco is purely a
>PIM-application that is understandable. However, it would be nice if
>Ecco could do this as well.
>
>This all brings me to the point that is being discussed in this
>thread. I'm thinking seriously about starting a Open Source project to
>build a great PIM-app. I know that there are several other options
>being developed as well, but I think a choice is not a bad thing.
>
>The way I'm looking at it right now is to develop a PIM-app that
>borrows a lot from the way Ecco works (outlines, linking columns to
>fields, etc.), but adds a lot of other stuff that I know from other
>apps like the option to map certain fields to the palm-sync and
>especially more options to be able to automate things for the end-user
>(for those that know Commence, I'm thinking about their agent-system
>here). Also, for a PIM to be really effective AND competitive it MUST
>include email-functionality on a serious level of quility and
>usability. Developing a good requirement specification would clearly
>be the first thing to do.
>
>I want to develop the application in Java for cross-platform
>functionality. Using Java also opens up a whole host of ready
>available stable components for the development. No need to develop
>the complete app from scratch as there are great Java-components
>available in the Open Source world that can shorten development to a
>very large extend. After the definition of the requirement
>specification we would scout for available and usable components.
>
>I'm almost sure that IF Netmanage will Open Source Ecco, that it would
> need to be rewritten from scratch anyway to bring it up to todays
>standards. For example, it would be wise to at least move it to work
>on top of an open source SQL-database, if only to provide a simple
>(SQL) interface to other apps to access the data (think OpenOffice).
>So I see no real reason to wait for this. If and when Netmanage moves
>to open source we can use that in this project as well.
>
>I'm in the process of setting up a project portal to open source
>several of my own (formerly commercial) projects. I like to add that
>my company did develop several technologies that might be very usefull
>in a PIM-project. One example is a system (actually a protocol) that
>uses XML to synchronise clients in a workgroup scenario without the
>need of a server and with each client running it's own local database.
>When I launch this Open Source project portal it would be nice to
>start a PIM-oriented project, so I'm very interested in everyone's
>opinion in this regard.
>
>I like to add a note about Chandler: I'm sure that this will become a
>great app. However, from my point of view the best way is to use Java
>and as much ready available components as possible. The
>Chandler-project seems to aim at creating a 'platform' more than just
>an application. That might be very usefull, but also needs a whole lot
>more development. Where Chandler is developing it's own API's I'm
>looking to use as much available API's and developing new ones as
>least as possible. There's more to say about it, but I reserve that
>for future discussions.
>
>I'm looking forward to your replies :-)
>
>Hans Peter.
>
>
>
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   eccopro@eGroups.com
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: eccopro-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>
>Group web-site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/
>Files: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/files/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Ugur Tarlig wrote:

>if I had anything as good as ECCO on the Mac platform, I wouldn't
>hesitate one single moment to switch completly to the Mac OS (despite
>the fact that I have made some investment in software on the Windows
>platform). This one little program is the sole reason I stick to the
>windows world.
>
>
I switched over to the Mac fairly recently.  I was in the same boat as
you -- Ecco was the last app keeping me on Windows, but the Mac Mini
finally seduced me and I decided to give switching a try.  I initially
tried all the Mac outliners seeing if they'd be Ecco replacements, and
while some are very powerful (there is certainly a wider variety of
outlining/PIM software for OS X than for Windows), nothing came close to
Ecco.  OmniOutliner is a good outlining tool, and it is slowly evolving
towards Ecco, especially with its programmability and column support, as
well as with the scripts that integrate the program with the system's
calendar program, iCal, but the column=folder concept is not in
OmniOutliner yet and there are some annoying usability issues as well.

Eventually I just decided to run Ecco in VirtualPC.  The great thing
about VirtualPC is that you can have multiple Windows machines set up in
different files.  I have one virtual machine called "Ecco" -- it's just
a clean Windows 2000 install with Ecco and Katmouse and nothing else.
It basically behaves like a native OS X app.  The whole combo, including
Ecco and Win2000 and virtual machine overhead takes only about 86 megs
of RAM, which is pretty darn reasonable.  It's less than Firefox most of
the time, and it's much, much less than most Java apps.  I like it.  My
Ecco files are stored on my Mac's filesystem, printing works
transparently from Ecco to the printer attached to my Mac, synching to a
Palm would probably work transparently too.  Cutting and pasting info
into Ecco from Mac apps also just works transparently.  No complaints
about the setup.

>Isn't there anything else that has these features? I really get angry
>and sad if I think of not being able to use this software sometime in
>the future because my OS is not gonna work with it anymore.
>
>
>
There is nothing with column/folder, outlining, and tickler integration
in the same vein as Ecco.  Other programs are slowly adding features,
but it will be years before there will be anything out there quite like
Ecco.  Personally, I also value the Ecco calendar quite a bit.  It,
combined with the ticklers, allows the creation of very sophisticated
workflows.  For many people, a project management app like Microsoft
Project can do much of what Ecco does for them, but that's like using a
sledgehammer to drive in a nail, inelegant and inefficient.  For
instance, it's almost ludicrous to think about using Microsoft Project
for something as prosaic as tracking individual eBay sales (listings,
buyer invoices, buyer reminders, payment reminders, payment deadlines,
item shipping status, etc.), but that kind of thing is natural and easy
in Ecco, through its natural combination of outlining, calendar
integration, and tickler integration.  Doing the same thing in Outlook
is well-nigh impossible.  This is why Ecco is so good.

-- Chris

--- In eccopro@yahoogroups.com, Chris Thompson <thompson.chris@g...>
wrote:

<...>
> Eventually I just decided to run Ecco in VirtualPC.  The great
thing
> about VirtualPC is that you can have multiple Windows machines set
up in
> different files.  I have one virtual machine called "Ecco" -- it's
just
> a clean Windows 2000 install with Ecco and Katmouse and nothing
else.

Your post was really helpful for me, because it encouraged me to
re-think switching to mac.

Actually, if I knew that a program called virtual PC was to run
another ten years on a Mac OS platform and I could run ECCO on that
virtual PC, I'd be completely happy for the years to come. My concern
right now is, that I can't install ECCO on windows after I installed
SP 2. And I suppose I don't need to install SP 2 on the mac platform.
So I would install virtual PC on a mac, then install ECCO and finally
not touch that virtual PC installation anymore (it would only serve
ECCO). I'd be completely happy if I knew this would work.

By the way, how fast is ECCO on virtual pc? Plus: What about the
shortcuts... do they work on the virtual pc as well?

-Ugur

PS: I gave up syncing my palm with Outlook (I was using Outlook before
I switched to ECCO), and since I can't make my palm sync with ECCO, I
completely gave up really using my palm.

Thanks Chris,


I've already setup Ecco Server component, although, it's not really a
server side component as far as I get the picture;
It's more of an administrator tool.

My point is: How and where do I get my 'users' in???
That is, when not using Outlook, or underlying, Exchange....

Before being able to share a file, or initiating groupscheduling,
you're supposed to set up mail, this inevitably gets you to first
setting up your mail system:
there you can choose ->
  None
  NetManage Chameleon 5.0
  Z-Mail Pro
  Ecco only messaging
  Notes
  cc:Mail and cc:Mobile
  Eudora Pro 3.0.1 (simple MAPI)
  HP Openmail
  CMC compliant
  VIM compliant
  Mapi compliant

Now, apart form Outlook, what are 'contemporary' alternative mail
clients??

Thanks for your help!!

Erwin



--- In eccopro@yahoogroups.com, Chris Thompson <thompson.chris@g...>
wrote:
> If you're not aware of it, Ecco has a server component that can do
group
> scheduling.  Just set it up and try it out.  It used to be especially
> popular in law firms.  It may have trouble handling more than 200+
> users, so depending on the scope of your needs it may not be able to
> replace Exchange.  You can find the server component in the "Network"
> subdirectory here:
> ftp://ftp.netmanage.com/support/pub/utilities/EC401/Ecco32/
> Documentation is available on the Netmanage FTP site, and there are a
> few additional resources here:
> http://supportweb.netmanage.com/ecco/
>
> The Ecco server component does not do shared files, but that's what a
> file server (or an intranet server, or a SharePoint-type server) is for
> anyway.  If you've got Samba set up, file sharing is already taken care
> of.  For collaboration, you can always store links to files on your
file
> server in your Ecco file.
>
> -- Chris
>
> epanen wrote:
>
> >Hi all!!
> >
> >Greatly fascinated by EccPro's wonderfull opportunities, I'm trying to
> >investigate how and what can be done RE: sharing & groupscheduling.
> >
> >I have Exchange Server running but am working towards abandoning this,
> >furthermore the Exch Serv is not tied to my domain anymore, so I
> >wouldn't consider this an option;
> >
> >What are the possibilities in using Ecco with other mail clients apart
> >from Outlook, that will allow for groups, and group scheduling?
> >
> >I prefer not to complicate things, with domain names, and all that
stuff;
> >Preferably I would like to be able to create a 'shared directory' and
> >one way or the other set up a limited group of users so that they can
> >access shared files and do group scheduling.
> >
> >I have Linux and Samba server at my disposition;
> >
> >Thanks for all your help!!
> >
> >Erwin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >To Post a message, send it to:   eccopro@e...
> >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: eccopro-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> >Group web-site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/
> >Files: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/files/
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

Thanks Chris,
I've already setup Ecco Server component, although, it's not really a
server side component as far as I get the picture;
It's more of an administrator tool.
My point is: How and where do I get my 'users' in???
That is, when not using Outlook, or underlying, Exchange....
Before being able to share a file, or initiating groupscheduling,
you're supposed to set up mail, this inevitably gets you to first
setting up your mail system:
there you can choose ->
None
NetManage Chameleon 5.0
Z-Mail Pro
Ecco only messaging
Notes
cc:Mail and cc:Mobile
Eudora Pro 3.0.1 (simple MAPI)
HP Openmail
CMC compliant
VIM compliant
Mapi compliant
Now, apart form Outlook, what are 'contemporary' alternative mail
clients??
Thanks for your help!!
Erwin
--- In eccopro@yahoogroups.com, Chris Thompson <thompson.chris@g...>
wrote:

If you're not aware of it, Ecco has a server component that can do

group 

scheduling. Just set it up and try it out. It used to be especially popular in law firms. It may have trouble handling more than 200+ users, so depending on the scope of your needs it may not be able to replace Exchange. You can find the server component in the "Network" subdirectory here:
ftp://ftp.netmanage.com/support/pub/utilities/EC401/Ecco32/
Documentation is available on the Netmanage FTP site, and there are a few additional resources here:
http://supportweb.netmanage.com/ecco/
The Ecco server component does not do shared files, but that's what a file server (or an intranet server, or a SharePoint-type server) is for anyway. If you've got Samba set up, file sharing is already taken care of. For collaboration, you can always store links to files on your

file 

server in your Ecco file.
-- Chris
epanen wrote:

Hi all!!
Greatly fascinated by EccPro's wonderfull opportunities, I'm trying to
investigate how and what can be done RE: sharing & groupscheduling.
I have Exchange Server running but am working towards abandoning this,
furthermore the Exch Serv is not tied to my domain anymore, so I
wouldn't consider this an option;
What are the possibilities in using Ecco with other mail clients apart

>from Outlook, that will allow for groups, and group scheduling?

I prefer not to complicate things, with domain names, and all that

stuff;

Preferably I would like to be able to create a 'shared directory' and
one way or the other set up a limited group of users so that they can
access shared files and do group scheduling.
I have Linux and Samba server at my disposition;
Thanks for all your help!!
Erwin
To Post a message, send it to: eccopro@e...
To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: eccopro-unsubscribe@e...
Group web-site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/
Files: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/files/ Yahoo! Groups Links

To Post a message, send it to: eccopro@eGroups.com
To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: eccopro-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
Group web-site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/
Files: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/files/ Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
eccopro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Thanks Chris;

Do you or anybody else have an idea as to whether Z-Mail still lives,
or is somewhere available for download?
As this seems to be a NetManage product, it might be preferable to try
the benefit of this?

Furthermore:
Do you have experience with Poco? Regarding IMAP? I tried it once,
liked the looks, but it failed on IMAP, and blocked the program or
even the CPU...
I could give it another try...

Erwin


--- In eccopro@yahoogroups.com, Chris Thompson <thompson.chris@g...>
wrote:
> I've never set up shared Ecco, but I'd first try "MAPI compliant" and
> use Ecco with a MAPI email client (virtually everything on Windows,
> including Poco and Eudora, perhaps not Thunderbird).  If that doesn't
> work, I'd try "Ecco only messaging" and follow the instructions in the
> document titled "Group Scheduling with ECCO-Only Messaging Transport"
> available here:
> http://supportweb.netmanage.com/ecco/
>
> Someone who uses the shared Ecco functionality may have more insight
> into this.
>
> -- Chris
>
> epanen wrote:
>
> >Thanks Chris,
> >
> >
> >I've already setup Ecco Server component, although, it's not really a
> >server side component as far as I get the picture;
> >It's more of an administrator tool.
> >
> >My point is: How and where do I get my 'users' in???
> >That is, when not using Outlook, or underlying, Exchange....
> >
> >Before being able to share a file, or initiating groupscheduling,
> >you're supposed to set up mail, this inevitably gets you to first
> >setting up your mail system:
> >there you can choose ->
> > None
> > NetManage Chameleon 5.0
> > Z-Mail Pro
> > Ecco only messaging
> > Notes
> > cc:Mail and cc:Mobile
> > Eudora Pro 3.0.1 (simple MAPI)
> > HP Openmail
> > CMC compliant
> > VIM compliant
> > Mapi compliant
> >
> >Now, apart form Outlook, what are 'contemporary' alternative mail
> >clients??
> >
> >Thanks for your help!!
> >
> >Erwin
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In eccopro@yahoogroups.com, Chris Thompson <thompson.chris@g...>
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> >>If you're not aware of it, Ecco has a server component that can do
> >>
> >>
> >group
> >
> >
> >>scheduling.  Just set it up and try it out.  It used to be especially
> >>popular in law firms.  It may have trouble handling more than 200+
> >>users, so depending on the scope of your needs it may not be able to
> >>replace Exchange.  You can find the server component in the "Network"
> >>subdirectory here:
> >>ftp://ftp.netmanage.com/support/pub/utilities/EC401/Ecco32/
> >>Documentation is available on the Netmanage FTP site, and there are a
> >>few additional resources here:
> >>http://supportweb.netmanage.com/ecco/
> >>
> >>The Ecco server component does not do shared files, but that's what a
> >>file server (or an intranet server, or a SharePoint-type server)
is for
> >>anyway.  If you've got Samba set up, file sharing is already taken
care
> >>of.  For collaboration, you can always store links to files on your
> >>
> >>
> >file
> >
> >
> >>server in your Ecco file.
> >>
> >>-- Chris
> >>
> >>epanen wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hi all!!
> >>>
> >>>Greatly fascinated by EccPro's wonderfull opportunities, I'm
trying to
> >>>investigate how and what can be done RE: sharing & groupscheduling.
> >>>
> >>>I have Exchange Server running but am working towards abandoning
this,
> >>>furthermore the Exch Serv is not tied to my domain anymore, so I
> >>>wouldn't consider this an option;
> >>>
> >>>What are the possibilities in using Ecco with other mail clients
apart
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>from Outlook, that will allow for groups, and group scheduling?
> >>
> >>
> >>>I prefer not to complicate things, with domain names, and all that
> >>>
> >>>
> >stuff;
> >
> >
> >>>Preferably I would like to be able to create a 'shared directory' and
> >>>one way or the other set up a limited group of users so that they can
> >>>access shared files and do group scheduling.
> >>>
> >>>I have Linux and Samba server at my disposition;
> >>>
> >>>Thanks for all your help!!
> >>>
> >>>Erwin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>To Post a message, send it to:   eccopro@e...
> >>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: eccopro-unsubscribe@e...
> >>>
> >>>Group web-site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/
> >>>Files: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/files/
> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >To Post a message, send it to:   eccopro@e...
> >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: eccopro-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> >Group web-site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/
> >Files: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/files/
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

I found this as to Z-Mail Pro:
http://papa.indstate.edu:8888/ftp/main!Windows95!Mail.html

Does anybody have experience with Z-Mail?

--- In eccopro@yahoogroups.com, "epanen" <erwinpanen@i...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Chris;
>
> Do you or anybody else have an idea as to whether Z-Mail still lives,
> or is somewhere available for download?
> As this seems to be a NetManage product, it might be preferable to try
> the benefit of this?
>
> Furthermore:
> Do you have experience with Poco? Regarding IMAP? I tried it once,
> liked the looks, but it failed on IMAP, and blocked the program or
> even the CPU...
> I could give it another try...
>
> Erwin
>
>
> --- In eccopro@yahoogroups.com, Chris Thompson <thompson.chris@g...>
> wrote:
> > I've never set up shared Ecco, but I'd first try "MAPI compliant" and
> > use Ecco with a MAPI email client (virtually everything on Windows,
> > including Poco and Eudora, perhaps not Thunderbird).  If that doesn't
> > work, I'd try "Ecco only messaging" and follow the instructions in
the
> > document titled "Group Scheduling with ECCO-Only Messaging Transport"
> > available here:
> > http://supportweb.netmanage.com/ecco/
> >
> > Someone who uses the shared Ecco functionality may have more insight
> > into this.
> >
> > -- Chris
> >
> > epanen wrote:
> >
> > >Thanks Chris,
> > >
> > >
> > >I've already setup Ecco Server component, although, it's not really a
> > >server side component as far as I get the picture;
> > >It's more of an administrator tool.
> > >
> > >My point is: How and where do I get my 'users' in???
> > >That is, when not using Outlook, or underlying, Exchange....
> > >
> > >Before being able to share a file, or initiating groupscheduling,
> > >you're supposed to set up mail, this inevitably gets you to first
> > >setting up your mail system:
> > >there you can choose ->
> > > None
> > > NetManage Chameleon 5.0
> > > Z-Mail Pro
> > > Ecco only messaging
> > > Notes
> > > cc:Mail and cc:Mobile
> > > Eudora Pro 3.0.1 (simple MAPI)
> > > HP Openmail
> > > CMC compliant
> > > VIM compliant
> > > Mapi compliant
> > >
> > >Now, apart form Outlook, what are 'contemporary' alternative mail
> > >clients??
> > >
> > >Thanks for your help!!
> > >
> > >Erwin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In eccopro@yahoogroups.com, Chris Thompson <thompson.chris@g...>
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>If you're not aware of it, Ecco has a server component that can do
> > >>
> > >>
> > >group
> > >
> > >
> > >>scheduling.  Just set it up and try it out.  It used to be
especially
> > >>popular in law firms.  It may have trouble handling more than 200+
> > >>users, so depending on the scope of your needs it may not be
able to
> > >>replace Exchange.  You can find the server component in the
"Network"
> > >>subdirectory here:
> > >>ftp://ftp.netmanage.com/support/pub/utilities/EC401/Ecco32/
> > >>Documentation is available on the Netmanage FTP site, and there
are a
> > >>few additional resources here:
> > >>http://supportweb.netmanage.com/ecco/
> > >>
> > >>The Ecco server component does not do shared files, but that's
what a
> > >>file server (or an intranet server, or a SharePoint-type server)
> is for
> > >>anyway.  If you've got Samba set up, file sharing is already taken
> care
> > >>of.  For collaboration, you can always store links to files on your
> > >>
> > >>
> > >file
> > >
> > >
> > >>server in your Ecco file.
> > >>
> > >>-- Chris
> > >>
> > >>epanen wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Hi all!!
> > >>>
> > >>>Greatly fascinated by EccPro's wonderfull opportunities, I'm
> trying to
> > >>>investigate how and what can be done RE: sharing & groupscheduling.
> > >>>
> > >>>I have Exchange Server running but am working towards abandoning
> this,
> > >>>furthermore the Exch Serv is not tied to my domain anymore, so I
> > >>>wouldn't consider this an option;
> > >>>
> > >>>What are the possibilities in using Ecco with other mail clients
> apart
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>from Outlook, that will allow for groups, and group scheduling?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>I prefer not to complicate things, with domain names, and all that
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >stuff;
> > >
> > >
> > >>>Preferably I would like to be able to create a 'shared
directory' and
> > >>>one way or the other set up a limited group of users so that
they can
> > >>>access shared files and do group scheduling.
> > >>>
> > >>>I have Linux and Samba server at my disposition;
> > >>>
> > >>>Thanks for all your help!!
> > >>>
> > >>>Erwin
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>To Post a message, send it to:   eccopro@e...
> > >>>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: eccopro-unsubscribe@e...
> > >>>
> > >>>Group web-site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/
> > >>>Files: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/files/
> > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >To Post a message, send it to:   eccopro@e...
> > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: eccopro-unsubscribe@e...
> > >
> > >Group web-site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/
> > >Files: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/files/
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >

I just went to download Katmouse so that I could scroll in Eccopro but
apparently it is not compatible with Logitech mice. Is there another
program which does the same thing but can live with my Logitech mouse?

Nancy,

I have a Logitech Cordless Laser Mouse and use Katmouse at the same time.
I've noticed no conflict.

Floyd

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:35:57 -0500, Nancy Hayden <nhayden1@...>
wrote:

>
> I just went to download Katmouse so that I could scroll in Eccopro but
> apparently it is not compatible with Logitech mice. Is there another
> program which does the same thing but can live with my Logitech mouse?
>
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   eccopro@eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: eccopro-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>
> Group web-site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/
> Files: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/files/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hi Nancy:

> I just went to download Katmouse so that I could scroll
> in Eccopro but apparently it is not compatible with
> Logitech mice. Is there another program which does the
> same thing but can live with my Logitech mouse?

It works fine with Logitech mice! - I have a Logitech cordless. Best guess
is that whatever the problem the author is refering to it was with earlier
versions of Logitech mouse *DRIVERS* - it certainly works with both Win2K
and WinXP.

Regards ... Alec
--
  ( ) {  } [ ] \ |  9 0  + =  () {} []


---- Original Message ----
From: "Nancy Hayden" <nhayden1@...>
To: <eccopro@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 14:35
Subject: [gla: [eccopro] scrolling and Logitech

Thanks so much; what was I thinking to wait so long to be able to scroll? I
read about Katmouse months ago. Works fine with my Logitech corded mouse.

At 04:11 PM 2/26/2005, you wrote:

>Hi Nancy:
>
> > I just went to download Katmouse so that I could scroll
> > in Eccopro but apparently it is not compatible with
> > Logitech mice. Is there another program which does the
> > same thing but can live with my Logitech mouse?
>
>It works fine with Logitech mice! - I have a Logitech cordless. Best guess
>is that whatever the problem the author is refering to it was with earlier
>versions of Logitech mouse *DRIVERS* - it certainly works with both Win2K
>and WinXP.
>
>Regards ... Alec
>--
>  ( ) {  } [ ] \ |  9 0  + =  () {} []
>
>
>---- Original Message ----
>From: "Nancy Hayden" <nhayden1@...>
>To: <eccopro@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 14:35
>Subject: [gla: [eccopro] scrolling and Logitech
>
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   eccopro@eGroups.com
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: eccopro-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>
>Group web-site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/
>Files: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/files/
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Ugur Tarlig wrote:

>Actually, if I knew that a program called virtual PC was to run
>another ten years on a Mac OS platform and I could run ECCO on that
>virtual PC, I'd be completely happy for the years to come. My concern
>right now is, that I can't install ECCO on windows after I installed
>SP 2. And I suppose I don't need to install SP 2 on the mac platform.
>So I would install virtual PC on a mac, then install ECCO and finally
>not touch that virtual PC installation anymore (it would only serve
>ECCO). I'd be completely happy if I knew this would work.
>
>
>
I think you're probably safe there.  Even if VirtualPC is ever cancelled
as a product (seems unlikely to me), there will always be alternative
products that do the same thing.  There is a commercial alternative to
VirtualPC called GuestPC, and there is a free, open-source product
called Bochs as well.  Being a GPL licensed project, Bochs for sure will
always be available.  There is also a substantial effort at getting Wine
ported to OS X called Darwine, so that will probably be a viable
alternative as well.

As for your question about XP Service Pack 2, whether you would need it
depends on how you set things up.  I have two VirtualPC images set up.
One is called "Ecco" and is a clean, lean Windows 2000 install with just
Ecco and KatMouse.  I have not enabled network support on that virtual
PC, so there is no need for security updates, virus checkers, etc.  It's
basically just a self-contained little world for running Ecco, and for
the most part it behaves just like another OS X app.  I have another
VirtualPC image called "Windows XP" which is a full XP Pro install with
SP2, networking support, McAfee VirusScan, all the latest Microsoft
patches, etc.  I almost never use this, but it's kind of nice having it
around, just in case.

>By the way, how fast is ECCO on virtual pc? Plus: What about the
>shortcuts... do they work on the virtual pc as well?
>
>

Ecco basically runs at native speeds.  (It's not a demanding
application.)  It is snappy and, as a comparison, doesn't have the user
interface "lag" you tend to experience when using Java apps
(particularly Swing apps) on either Windows or MacOS.  The keyboard
shortcuts all work.  You do have to remember that "paste" in Ecco is
still control-V rather than command-V (the standard in OS X native
apps), but other than that, no problems.  The only thing that doesn't
work is the ability to double-click an Ecco item with something in the
"Net Location" folder and have it open the system web browser.
Naturally, it opens Internet Explorer and not something on the MacOS
side of things.  Fortunately, Ecco's launching behavior is customizable,
and I'm intending to write a little utility that fixes this.  Not a huge
issue though.

-- Chris

Chris -

I appreciate the kind words, but I'm really just facilitating
communication between NM and the group.  Steve Mitchell and the NM
people are really the ones who "got things rolling".  Steve contacted
me, not the other way around.  My fear is that when the engineering
analysis is completed, NM will find that removing non-NM portions of
the code (i.e., third party libraries and the like) will effectively
eviscerate the code base, leaving nothing of value to open source.

As for open source vs. new from scratch, I am of the definite opinion
that building Ecco from scratch would not be a huge undertaking.
While the serverless workgroup setup may have been innovative for the
time, I think it would be pretty easy to recreate with today's tools.
  Ditto for the underlying database.

Where open source has value, I believe, is in maintaining Ecco.  I run
my entire (rather busy) law practice from Ecco, including extensive
integration with other off the shelf and custom software.  I don't
have time to write a replacement from scratch, but I'd be willing to
fix things that broke -- and would sleep better knowing that I could.

- Jeff

--- In eccopro@yahoogroups.com, Chris Thompson <thompson.chris@g...>
wrote:
> Despite the lack of visible progress, Jeff Sonnabend seems to be
working
> hard on the open source angle, and he deserves a lot of credit for
> getting the ball rolling on that and pursuing it.

--- In eccopro@yahoogroups.com, Chris Thompson <thompson.chris@g...>
wrote:
> Despite the lack of visible progress, Jeff Sonnabend seems to be
working
> hard on the open source angle, and he deserves a lot of credit for
> getting the ball rolling on that and pursuing it.

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 22:08:07 -0000, Jeff Sonnabend
<eccotools@...> wrote:

> As for open source vs. new from scratch, I am of the definite opinion
> that building Ecco from scratch would not be a huge undertaking.
> While the serverless workgroup setup may have been innovative for the
> time, I think it would be pretty easy to recreate with today's tools.
>  Ditto for the underlying database.

I definately agree with this, especially with the amount of components
out there for a language like Java. Although I'm not a huge fan of
running Java apps, it would make the most sense for its platform
compatibility and for the amount of ready-to-go components that exist.

>
> Where open source has value, I believe, is in maintaining Ecco.  I run
> my entire (rather busy) law practice from Ecco, including extensive
> integration with other off the shelf and custom software.  I don't
> have time to write a replacement from scratch, but I'd be willing to
> fix things that broke -- and would sleep better knowing that I could.

I agree with this too - everybody on here has the part of the
application they care about the most. Would this be a quick project?
No, not for a finished product. Could we see relative progress made in
a reasonable time given a few motivated developers? Of course. One
think I truly think would help in the progress is make the program
itself as open architecturally as possible.  This way, the core
program will not even try to be everything to everybody - instead, it
will provide the foundation and if done strategically, can be extended
by developers as they see fit.  This should tremendously help both the
development time (ie, all features that anyone wants don't need to be
in from the start) and prolong its life-cycle.

I will admit I've never been involved in a project like this - all my
development has been solo work.  It won't be a quick answer, but Ecco
isn't getting any younger either.

Daniel

--- In eccopro@yahoogroups.com, Chris Thompson <thompson.chris@g...>
wrote:

> You want to clone
> Ecco's functionality, plus build a full-featured email client, plus add
> serious CRM capabilities... that's an enormous amount of work,
certainly
> more than a man-year of full-time development.

I have experience with (commercial) projects of this magnitude and I
must say that the amount of actual development is much smaller than
most people think. There is a large amount of work in developping good
specifications to work from and in finding the needed components. From
there, working and stable software can be put together resonably fast.
For example (using Java), if we have a clearly defined data-model then
all object-relational mapping code and object management code can be
generated without any coding effort.

> If you think you can do
> it though, go for it.  Before you do, it might be worthwhile
> reconsidering whether or not to your efforts might be better spent
> towards reviving outlining integration in Chandler, or even adding
> outlining to Evolution.

As I stated, outlining is important to me. But there is a lot of stuff
I want besides that. Another thing is that I'm almost certain that the
codebase of Evolution does not lend itself for implementing outlining
easily as outlining the way that Ecco does it has to be an integral
design desicion from the start (as far as I see it). And I already
said why I don't want to go the Chandler route.

Within a month or two I will launch my own project-portal and I will
probably start this project there. When the project is launched I will
post a notice to this list so anyone interested can find the way.

Hans Peter.

--- In eccopro@yahoogroups.com, "softechmatrix" <softechmatrix@y...>
wrote:
> Within a month or two I will launch my own project-portal and I will
> probably start this project there. When the project is launched I
will
> post a notice to this list so anyone interested can find the way.

Python and Java are a bit slow, though, and the GTK widgets look funny
under Windows. Do people here have experience with wxWidgets and C++,
and could tell us how practical a solution it would be to write an
open-source Ecco with those tools?

Fred.

--- In eccopro@yahoogroups.com, "frdtheman" <frdtheman@y...> wrote:

> Python and Java are a bit slow, though, and the GTK widgets look funny
> under Windows. Do people here have experience with wxWidgets and C++,
> and could tell us how practical a solution it would be to write an
> open-source Ecco with those tools?

I have several Java-based programs running on my laptop. Although I
have a fairly powerfull laptop, just comparing the performance of
Java-apps to .NET apps for example shows that Java performance is very
smooth in comparison. As for the 'look and feel', with the SWT-toolkit
from Eclipse it is possible to have Java apps look native on each
platform.

I choose Java over Python. While I do like Python for it's very
elegant syntax, Java has much more components available at the moment
for building apps like Ecco. The way I see it, Python is currently
geared more towards being a contender for web-based apps in general
and PHP in particular. Java on the other hand is clearly aimed at
building business-applications with fat-clients (if needed/wanted).

Java also has good object-relational mapping tools like Hibernate,
that take a lot of coding out of the project and have a proven
trackrecord for delivering very stable performance. In addition there
are several Java-based embedded database-engines available as Open
Source. IBM just released their flagship embedded java database
Cloudscape as Open Source and HypersonicSQL also has a very good
trackrecord. These databases can run stand-alone on a networkserver
for workgroup scenarios but they can be embedded into an application
(they have a small installation footprint) so the stand-alone user
dont have to install it seperately. They are SQL-complient and have a
JDBC-driver available so data stored into these databases can be
accesses by OpenOffice without any additional coding (the OpenOffice
developers took care of that). This again takes another big part of
coding OUT of the project.

Just for information, I'm a software consultant specialised (among
other things) in application and technology selection for all kinds of
projects, mainly based on Open Source technology.

Hans Peter.

Great! did you just remove apps 0 through 3 or did you hunt through the
registry and remove other keys as well? I'm still not sure how far one
has to go to ensure a complete uninstall.

John LeBlanc

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 04:34:45 -0600, Abhishek Gupta wrote:
Thanks for the help. I just went ahead and deleted all references to
palm's sync conduits for address, contacts, tasks and memos. Everything
works fine now.

--Abhi

On 24 Feb 2005 19:22:17 -0000, <eccopro@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> ______________________________________________________________________
__
> ______________________________________________________________________
__
>
> Message: 3
>    Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:17:35 -0400
>    From: John LeBlanc <John.LeBlanc@...>
> Subject: Re: Ecco and Palm Sync Problem
>
> getting the todo function to work well, especially from the palm to
> ecco, seems to be hit or miss. I've had this problem and sometimes on
> reinstallation, it went away. But this is not guaranteed. I think
> removal of the U. S. Robotics registry settings for applications zero
> through three and then reinstallation of the ecco pilot
synchronization
> files is the only way to go. I'm not aware that there are any easy
> registry edits that will fix this.
>
> John LeBlanc
> __________________________________________________________
> John C. LeBlanc, MD, MSc, FRCPC
> Assistant Professor
> Pediatrics, Psychiatry, Community Health and Epidemiology
> Dalhousie University
> IWK Health Centre               Work phone: (902) 470-8930
> 5850 University Avenue          Work fax:   (902) 470-6913
> Halifax, Nova Scotia            Email: John.LeBlanc@...
> B3K 6R8 CANADA                  Pager:      (902) 470-8888
> __________________________________________________________
>
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:21:26 -0600, Abhishek Gupta wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>   I have set up my Palm Tunsten E to sync with Ecco using the registry
> hack, and it seems to work  fine except for one behavior. When I
> delete a task on my Palm and sync, it is not deleted from ecco's
> to-do's. On the other hand, marking it done on the Palm or changing
> the due date works just fine. Any idea what might be happening?
>
> Thanks in Advance,
> --Abhi
>
--
My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those
who
do the work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in
the
first group; there is less competition there.


                                       ---
Indira Gandhi

My ECCO file is some 5 MB, and sometimes I get a message "Low memory
condition detected".

I found that the only way to get rid of this message and continue
using ECCO is to delete a lot of contents and then run
File/Database/Recover.

Is there a way to increase the amount of memory used by ECCO to
circumvent this problem?

This is a major problem for me.

Regards,

I do not remember exactly as I had to play around a bit. But, I went through all
of them and deleted entries for calendars, contacts, tasks and memos referring
to sg*.dll. I did not even have to rename the original palm conduits.

>
> Message: 5
>    Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:47:16 -0400
>    From: John LeBlanc <John.LeBlanc@...>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 1655: uninstall Ecco
>
> Great! did you just remove apps 0 through 3 or did you hunt through the
> registry and remove other keys as well? I'm still not sure how far one
> has to go to ensure a complete uninstall.
>
> John LeBlanc
>
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 04:34:45 -0600, Abhishek Gupta wrote:
> Thanks for the help. I just went ahead and deleted all references to
> palm's sync conduits for address, contacts, tasks and memos. Everything
> works fine now.
>
> --Abhi
>
> On 24 Feb 2005 19:22:17 -0000, <eccopro@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> >
> > Message: 3
> >    Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:17:35 -0400
> >    From: John LeBlanc <John.LeBlanc@...>
> > Subject: Re: Ecco and Palm Sync Problem
> >
> > getting the todo function to work well, especially from the palm to
> > ecco, seems to be hit or miss. I've had this problem and sometimes on
> > reinstallation, it went away. But this is not guaranteed. I think
> > removal of the U. S. Robotics registry settings for applications zero
> > through three and then reinstallation of the ecco pilot
> synchronization
> > files is the only way to go. I'm not aware that there are any easy
> > registry edits that will fix this.
> >
> > John LeBlanc
> > __________________________________________________________
> > John C. LeBlanc, MD, MSc, FRCPC
> > Assistant Professor
> > Pediatrics, Psychiatry, Community Health and Epidemiology
> > Dalhousie University
> > IWK Health Centre               Work phone: (902) 470-8930
> > 5850 University Avenue          Work fax:   (902) 470-6913
> > Halifax, Nova Scotia            Email: John.LeBlanc@...
> > B3K 6R8 CANADA                  Pager:      (902) 470-8888
> > __________________________________________________________
> >
> > On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 17:21:26 -0600, Abhishek Gupta wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >   I have set up my Palm Tunsten E to sync with Ecco using the registry
> > hack, and it seems to work  fine except for one behavior. When I
> > delete a task on my Palm and sync, it is not deleted from ecco's
> > to-do's. On the other hand, marking it done on the Palm or changing
> > the due date works just fine. Any idea what might be happening?
> >
> > Thanks in Advance,
> > --Abhi
> >
> --
> My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those
> who
> do the work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in
> the
> first group; there is less competition there.
>
>
>                                       ---
> Indira Gandhi
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   eccopro@eGroups.com
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: eccopro-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>
> Group web-site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/
> Files: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eccopro/files/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>

Hi, Chris & Ugur,

Your exchange is very useful to me as well. I am also
switching to Mac fairly recently (less than one month,
switching the project laptop from Dell to Powerbook).

I am keeping both for now, but will need to return the
Dell within the week. I also found the only app I
couldn't find a good counterpart is ECCO. :-)

I just got Virtual PC and installed a clean WinXP-SP2.
But it is very slow and slows down my other Mac apps
considerably. It's a Powerbook 15" 1.5GHz with 512MB
RAM. Is memory the problem? What's your config?

Chris Thompson wrote:
> Ugur Tarlig wrote:

>>Actually, if I knew that a program called virtual PC was to run
>>another ten years on a Mac OS platform and I could run ECCO on that
>>virtual PC, I'd be completely happy for the years to come. My concern
>>right now is, that I can't install ECCO on windows after I installed
>>SP 2. And I suppose I don't need to install SP 2 on the mac platform.
>>So I would install virtual PC on a mac, then install ECCO and finally
>>not touch that virtual PC installation anymore (it would only serve
>>ECCO). I'd be completely happy if I knew this would work.

Hmm, I've been using ECCO on XP-SP2 for sometime without
problems. But I usually backed all my data up and reinstall
Windows completely from scratch (wiped out the entire
partition and reinstall everything.) Also my ECCO files
are _not_ very big.

> I think you're probably safe there.  Even if VirtualPC is ever cancelled
> as a product (seems unlikely to me), there will always be alternative
> products that do the same thing.  There is a commercial alternative to
> VirtualPC called GuestPC, and there is a free, open-source product
> called Bochs as well.  Being a GPL licensed project, Bochs for sure will
> always be available.  There is also a substantial effort at getting Wine
> ported to OS X called Darwine, so that will probably be a viable
> alternative as well.

Yes, QEMU is another alternative. Although they still have
some bugs on Mac OSX.

> As for your question about XP Service Pack 2, whether you would need it
> depends on how you set things up.  I have two VirtualPC images set up.
> One is called "Ecco" and is a clean, lean Windows 2000 install with just
> Ecco and KatMouse.  I have not enabled network support on that virtual
> PC, so there is no need for security updates, virus checkers, etc.  It's
> basically just a self-contained little world for running Ecco, and for
> the most part it behaves just like another OS X app.  I have another
> VirtualPC image called "Windows XP" which is a full XP Pro install with
> SP2, networking support, McAfee VirusScan, all the latest Microsoft
> patches, etc.  I almost never use this, but it's kind of nice having it
> around, just in case.

My thoughts exactly. After running Windows forever, it's
a bit scary to completely switching over without a backup. :-)

>>By the way, how fast is ECCO on virtual pc? Plus: What about the
>>shortcuts... do they work on the virtual pc as well?

> Ecco basically runs at native speeds.  (It's not a demanding
> application.)  It is snappy and, as a comparison, doesn't have the user
> interface "lag" you tend to experience when using Java apps
> (particularly Swing apps) on either Windows or MacOS.  The keyboard
> shortcuts all work.  You do have to remember that "paste" in Ecco is
> still control-V rather than command-V (the standard in OS X native
> apps), but other than that, no problems.  The only thing that doesn't
> work is the ability to double-click an Ecco item with something in the
> "Net Location" folder and have it open the system web browser.
> Naturally, it opens Internet Explorer and not something on the MacOS
> side of things.  Fortunately, Ecco's launching behavior is customizable,
> and I'm intending to write a little utility that fixes this.  Not a huge
> issue though.

Thanks, this is also very helpful.

Regards,

yushun

I just got Virtual PC and installed a clean WinXP-SP2.
But it is very slow and slows down my other Mac apps
considerably. It's a Powerbook 15" 1.5GHz with 512MB
RAM. Is memory the problem? What's your config?

Chris Thompson wrote:

Ugur Tarlig wrote:

Actually, if I knew that a program called virtual PC was to run
another ten years on a Mac OS platform and I could run ECCO on that
virtual PC, I'd be completely happy for the years to come. My concern
right now is, that I can't install ECCO on windows after I installed
SP 2. And I suppose I don't need to install SP 2 on the mac platform.
So I would install virtual PC on a mac, then install ECCO and finally
not touch that virtual PC installation anymore (it would only serve
ECCO). I'd be completely happy if I knew this would work.

Hmm, I've been using ECCO on XP-SP2 for sometime without
problems. But I usually backed all my data up and reinstall
Windows completely from scratch (wiped out the entire
partition and reinstall everything.) Also my ECCO files
are _not_ very big.

I think you're probably safe there. Even if VirtualPC is ever cancelled as a product (seems unlikely to me), there will always be alternative products that do the same thing. There is a commercial alternative to VirtualPC called GuestPC, and there is a free, open-source product called Bochs as well. Being a GPL licensed project, Bochs for sure will always be available. There is also a substantial effort at getting Wine ported to OS X called Darwine, so that will probably be a viable alternative as well.

Yes, QEMU is another alternative. Although they still have
some bugs on Mac OSX.

As for your question about XP Service Pack 2, whether you would need it depends on how you set things up. I have two VirtualPC images set up. One is called "Ecco" and is a clean, lean Windows 2000 install with just Ecco and KatMouse. I have not enabled network support on that virtual PC, so there is no need for security updates, virus checkers, etc. It's basically just a self-contained little world for running Ecco, and for the most part it behaves just like another OS X app. I have another VirtualPC image called "Windows XP" which is a full XP Pro install with SP2, networking support, McAfee VirusScan, all the latest Microsoft patches, etc. I almost never use this, but it's kind of nice having it around, just in case.

My thoughts exactly. After running Windows forever, it's
a bit scary to completely switching over without a backup. :-)

By the way, how fast is ECCO on virtual pc? Plus: What about the
shortcuts... do they work on the virtual pc as well?

Ecco basically runs at native speeds. (It's not a demanding application.) It is snappy and, as a comparison, doesn't have the user interface "lag" you tend to experience when using Java apps (particularly Swing apps) on either Windows or MacOS. The keyboard shortcuts all work. You do have to remember that "paste" in Ecco is still control-V rather than command-V (the standard in OS X native apps), but other than that, no problems. The only thing that doesn't work is the ability to double-click an Ecco item with something in the "Net Location" folder and have it open the system web browser. Naturally, it opens Internet Explorer and not something on the MacOS side of things. Fortunately, Ecco's launching behavior is customizable, and I'm intending to write a little utility that fixes this. Not a huge issue though.

Thanks, this is also very helpful.
Regards,
yushun

Sorry about that last email getting cut off.  I hit the Send button
prematurely.

Yushun Wang wrote:

>I just got Virtual PC and installed a clean WinXP-SP2.
>But it is very slow and slows down my other Mac apps
>considerably. It's a Powerbook 15" 1.5GHz with 512MB
>RAM. Is memory the problem? What's your config?
>
>
>
>
On my machine, Windows XP with SP2 is a lot slower in Virtual PC than
Windows 2000, which is why I use a Win2k install for running Ecco, and
keep an XP install around for everything else (I almost never use the XP
install, really have no need to, but it's nice to know it's there).  I
was really quite surprised by the speed difference between Win2k and
WinXP.  The startup time is also almost two and a half times as long for
XP, and the disk image is also about three times larger (Win2k+SP5+Ecco,
1.27Gb;  WinXP+SP2+nothing, 3.15Gb).

My WinXP Virtual PC image is set to 128 Mb of RAM, with networking
enabled.  The Win2k Virtual PC image is set to 64 Mb of RAM, with
networking disabled.  I'm currently just using a Mac Mini with the
default memory (256Mb), and it's not a problem to run Ecco in the
background.  It uses about 87Mb of RAM total, including VirtualPC
overhead.  There is a bit of a system slowdown, but nothing serious.
The WinXP image uses more than half the memory in my Mac Mini and
definitely causes quite a major slowdown in system speed.  I haven't
tried reducing the XP image's available memory to 64MB.  I assume that
would improve things a lot, perhaps putting it on par (or close to) the
Win2k image.  I also have moved the slider which controls how much CPU
time each VirtualPC gets when in the background to its minimum setting,
since Ecco really doesn't need any CPU time when it's idling.  Also,
something worth mentioning:  if you minimize a VirtualPC image to the
dock, it automatically gets "paused" so it will no longer take up any
CPU time (it still takes up some memory, however).

All that verbiage probably scared some people off, but really I think
it's a pretty elegant configuration for running Ecco.  I'm using the
bare-bones Mac Mini right now and Ecco is very usable.  If I had more
memory, I'd assume it would be even better.

-- Chris

Chris Thompson <thompson.chris@...> wrote:

    I've never set up shared Ecco, but I'd first try "MAPI compliant" and
    use Ecco with a MAPI email client (virtually everything on Windows,
    including Poco and Eudora, perhaps not Thunderbird).

This reminds me: does anyone use Thunderbird in combination with Ecco?
How much integration can I hope for? I would love to be able to get mail
message contents from Thunderbird into Ecco, for example to keep
emails relevant to a project together with project planning items.

Davor

Chris Thompson <thompson.chris@...> wrote:

    You want to clone Ecco's functionality, plus build a full-featured
    email client, plus add serious CRM capabilities... [...] Before you
    do, it might be worthwhile reconsidering whether or not to your
    efforts might be better spent towards reviving outlining integration
    in Chandler, or even adding outlining to Evolution.

Another alternative is to have a look at the project that intends to
integrate PIM functionality into Thunderbird, instead of having it
separated into a stand-alone application (Sunbird).

http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/Calendar:Lightning