~~~~~~~~~EnergyResources Moderator Comment ~~~~~~~~

Denis, a main problem with your comments below, is your resistance to seeking
solutions.

You have made your point.

Now what?

~~~~~~ EnergyResources Moderator Tom Robertson ~~~~~~

Henry
You miss the point that I make. I agree that there is an urgent need for
population growth to cease. I will not comment on how that may come about or the
regions where it is most urgent. However, the reality is that the operation of
the systems of civilization invariably entail using limited natural capital.
That will continue to be the case even when the population is decreasing. What
will be happening to New York, London and here in Melbourne when the goods and
services provided by using natural material resources (including food, oil,
electricity and water) needed for their operation and maintenance become very
scarce in the near future. I am well aware of the arguments about the dangers of
growth. I will, however, continue to point out that the operation of
civilization entails the consumption of natural material capital. Growth just
increases the rate of that consumption. Do you have any problem with that
assertion?

Denis

--- On Sat, 7/11/09, Henry Warwick <misterwarwick@...> wrote:

From: Henry Warwick <misterwarwick@...>
Subject: [energyresources] Re: Film about the insanity of growth
To: energyresources@yahoogroups.com
Received: Saturday, 7 November, 2009, 7:42 AM



Denis - you're missing the point of the film: reduce population.



Less population == reduced pressure on the life support system.



If a killer disease came through and wiped out humanity - the pressure on
resources would disappear.



Therefore, reducing population *regardless of the type/style of civilisation* is
a requirement, if not a prerequisite.



In fact, IIRC, Bartlett discusses the stress on resources created by population
growth.



HW



--- In energyresources@ yahoogroups. com, Denis Frith <denisaf2000@ ...> wrote:

>

> Don

> I find it interesting that there is this widespread concern with the economic
growth paradigm. Governments do promote economic growth but the reality is that
the operation of civilization entails the irreversible consumption of limited
natural material capital at a high rate. Economic growth just speeds up that
devastation of our life support system. The natural capital is now becoming
scarce. Sound measures to adapt to the powering down are more likely when there
is widespread understanding of the real nature of the malaise.

>

> Denis

>

>

> --- On Thu, 5/11/09, Don Chisholm <donchism@.. .> wrote:

>

> From: Don Chisholm <donchism@.. .>

> Subject: [energyresources] Film about the insanity of growth

> To: "Energysources" <energyresources@ yahoogroups. com>

> Received: Thursday, 5 November, 2009, 12:57 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> The note below came by yesterday. It apparently is not yet
finished,

>

> but it is excellent right not, IMHO.

>

> It expands on we consider our Paradigm Paradox.

>

>

>

> *Paradigm Paradox*

>

>

>

> * The main policy objective of governments is economic growth.

>

> * Today's level of economic activity, with associated

>

> human population and natural resource throughput,

>

> is already beyond that which planet Earth can sustain.

>

> * Therefore, in self-destructive fashion, we undermine the

>

>

>

> future well being of humans and the stability of nature.

>

> http://www.countysu stainability. ca/GlobLocIssues .htm

>

>

>

> I hope the film of Albert Kaufman gets wide distribution.

>

> Don Chisholm

>

> >>>>>

>

> Albert Kaufman writes:

>

> I invite you to see for yourself. View an exclusive preview and

>

> discussion with the filmmaker at:

>

>

>

> Link: http://vimeo. com/6648857

>

> <http://rs6.net/ tn.jsp?et= 1102798946844& s=3167&e= 001Py0zRGZBX3DHn
D0FVyYDGfLrt4KMd tvC7sdweouXwxUzu eWOzbjhKlx8IZ21f yuJlGK3uKk7PxKvM
PTXwsaMwxpZ1nnbt jWMPHiwwX7MQ3Zp8 DGYUhDgcQ= =>

>

>

>

> You can also see a trailer at GrowthBusters. com

>

> <http://rs6.net/ tn.jsp?et= 1102798946844& s=3167&e= 001Py0zRGZBX3Axg
HVz9g4-X3nX8D04z jZA5Y645aCiAFg0n Q9YZ1yhbQ7yauJt2 co7aYHrrktcyH4Z0
-ACsBFId8IFfvJZ0 ICapgGYnQsbHDGbn 5pcUs6tfQ= =>

>

>

>

> Once you've seen the preview, I'm sure you'll agree we need to support

>

> this project. We can do that by helping build the film's grass roots

>

> support network. A large e-mail list is essential to organizing viewing

>

> parties and community screenings when the film is complete in 2010. Let

>

> your members, contacts and other organizations know about this project

>

> and encourage them to join the GrowthBusters e-mail list now

>

> <http://rs6.net/ tn.jsp?et= 1102798946844& s=3167&e= 001Py0zRGZBX3AYR
Yy9afWL2OIRnOBNK HF_FW-cv4NSBSImN 3B9dWqKNH3yeKSLI iMPMtt3KbgSo56g9
Z92npTOalcU9OhJi tFdarPdstNFngXZX PfafBSkhteIooZlc U46hveL-lWqVVk= >.

>

> Feel free to share the links above.

>

>

>

> It's easy to put a blurb or a complete story into your next email, blog,

>

> tweet or newsletter, using the photos, graphics, video, social

>

> networking links and suggested copy you'll find right here

>

> <http://rs6.net/ tn.jsp?et= 1102798946844& s=3167&e= 001Py0zRGZBX3Auz
SKNhjrvG7XcCw7Jp Cu6hNn60B8OLeq97 -lcRpEjx1rqfSUJu ILCShbkCeibxZP65
7vBIZVssN4qMRGzN qylNrxtEvNd5sNXN 8pINDGBalL7wqm- _1t6EnGG4eq5G3Gk dVhXAy5-Gw=
=>.

>

> Please also consider a link from your website and also promoting this

>

> project on your social network sites.

>

>

>

> If possible, please let me know about your efforts to promote the film.

>

> If you want to do more, call the filmmaker, Dave Gardner @ 719-576-5565

>

> or drop Dave an email @ dave@growthbusters. com

>

> <mailto:dave@ growthbusters. com>. Some groups have held fundraisers for

>

> the project and even invited Dave to speak and screen clips from the film.

>

>

>

> Contributions are always welcome

>

> <http://rs6.net/ tn.jsp?et= 1102798946844& s=3167&e= 001Py0zRGZBX3DXA
vO5TgeSY26Zf3G4a C_Bfe3NO2evjgCCm RQLppv11vyoVcdSq mDxhoMrbsmQACKE2
MoFlh9Qljzx6cnrQ jNMe6f61wBJqfFJx r5N_A15uqYmRAb9k 03CDCfquvLdEaccu
hwQWaIOpojZXyumn CYb>

>

> (AND VERY MUCH NEEDED), of course. Hooked on Growth is attracting

>

> volunteers and contributors from around the world.

>

>

>

> And be sure you personally:

>

>

>

> Join the e-mail list

>

> <http://rs6.net/ tn.jsp?et= 1102798946844& s=3167&e= 001Py0zRGZBX3AYR
Yy9afWL2OIRnOBNK HF_FW-cv4NSBSImN 3B9dWqKNH3yeKSLI iMPMtt3KbgSo56g9
Z92npTOalcU9OhJi tFdarPdstNFngXZX PfafBSkhteIooZlc U46hveL-lWqVVk= >

>

> Fan GrowthBusters on Facebook

>

> <http://rs6.net/ tn.jsp?et= 1102798946844& s=3167&e= 001Py0zRGZBX3B1o
bGIwobJflACCqu34 tQkEZd5lXbEUxkhb D-WK4oY9gYEQAsI6 8RwqPGk0EX1R08Gm
4hpkvZzstSum- aalBVwBhRkYgnQHs GwIduJu5mdA3f- F3h8vihHcwLZKvkK CwHGQx8qmIRSLgro
DMI65dd_JXqCv1Kn jmo=>

>

> Follow GrowthBusters on Twitter

>

> <http://rs6.net/ tn.jsp?et= 1102798946844& s=3167&e= 001Py0zRGZBX3Av5
AuXyCqGkcgIoR8L2 jgA-nhDUBh2RyC6Z hWGtiqEgL- 94HsEzmV6OHFHB35 Y4SElD3EGJU2xijZ
Yx61LIgWFXbNa2Wp 0VCvazSS6KMDrWcG Hb0kSfiYO>

>

> Make a Tax-Deductible Contribution

>

> <http://rs6.net/ tn.jsp?et= 1102798946844& s=3167&e= 001Py0zRGZBX3DXA
vO5TgeSY26Zf3G4a C_Bfe3NO2evjgCCm RQLppv11vyoVcdSq mDxhoMrbsmQACKE2
MoFlh9Qljzx6cnrQ jNMe6f61wBJqfFJx r5N_A15uqYmRAb9k 03CDCfquvLdEaccu
hwQWaIOpojZXyumn CYb>

>

>

>

> I'm very excited about this film. That's why I've volunteered to help

>

> spread the word. I hope you'll join me. We need Hooked on Growth to help

>

> us shift to a new, sustainable paradigm.

>

>

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

>

> Albert Kaufman

>

> Portland, Oregon

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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>

>

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>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

> Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail.

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