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Hydrogen and Solar Energy Question   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #25271 of 122413 |
Re: Hydrogen and Solar Energy Question

--- In energyresources@y..., Ron Patterson <readyourdarwin@y...>
wrote:
> Oliver, of all the problem with converting sunlight to hydrogen,
> I believe water would be the very least of them. Huge rivers lace
> the land, any one most any one of them would be able to supply
> enough water for the operation.

Hmmm, maybe. The number I came up with (based on the numbers from
earlier in this thread) was 10E12 l/yr that, if entirely
electrolysed, would provide the equivalent amount of H2,
energy-wise, that we currently use in oil (that was my reading of
all the numbers)...

Soooo, based on that number, I get a water requirement roughly equal
to 5% of the flow of the Mississippi, which seems pretty significant
to me (10E12 liters represents about 19 days flow of the Mississippi
on average).

Now, I'm really just interested in this because it seems to be one
more relevant question in whether or not a "hydrogen economy" is
feasible; I don't think it is, but this is just another line of
thought that seems important in explaining why. I think it's
unlikely that we could use hydrogen in the same relative quantities
as we do oil now, so perhaps it's a strawman argument, but if
water is where we plan to get hydrogen from in such a world, I
think it's important to understand whether this is possible. Given
the numbers I think providing enough water for such an
endeavour will be a serious engineering problem, especially given
the amount of fresh water that we are using for other important
things.

Oh well. I'll find something else to dwell on now...

Cheers
Oliver






Sun Nov 17, 2002 5:49 am

sushik
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Message #25271 of 122413 |
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Question: Does anyone know if any numbers have ever been generated on the efficiency of using solar panels to generate electricity to generate hydrogen? How...
Ron Patterson
readyourdarwin
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Nov 15, 2002
4:52 pm

I've been looking into some of this, though I haven't tied any of it together yet. Here is a quote: http://www.dieoff.com/page84.htm Renewable Energy: Economic...
Dale & Elizabeth Pfei...
daleallen0416
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Nov 16, 2002
12:06 am

If the US population is about 285 million, then the nominal area required for solar collection would be 427,500 square kilometres or 163,000 square miles, or a...
Peter Hill
hillpa@...
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Nov 16, 2002
2:28 am

That would be larger than the three states of Alabama, Georgia and Mississippi combined. Of course it would actually be a lot more than that because you have...
Ron Patterson
readyourdarwin
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Nov 16, 2002
5:16 pm

... I'm interested in the water requirements for this. How much water would this require and where would it come from? Using the numbers from the earlier post...
sushik
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Nov 16, 2002
9:07 pm

Oliver, of all the problem with converting sunlight to hydrogen, I believe water would be the very least of them. Huge rivers lace the land, any one most any...
Ron Patterson
readyourdarwin
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Nov 17, 2002
12:29 am

... Hmmm, maybe. The number I came up with (based on the numbers from earlier in this thread) was 10E12 l/yr that, if entirely electrolysed, would provide the...
sushik
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Nov 17, 2002
8:36 am

Water would leave a film, cutting efficiency. An ammonia based cleaner like Windex would probably be used. Jack Dingler...
Jack Dingler
weaseldog2001
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Nov 17, 2002
2:05 am

... than that ... "originally published in 1994 from Voigt 1984". Are you guys stuck in a zero progress time warp. The area needed to provide x quads of ...
mduffin3
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Nov 17, 2002
1:52 am

... and ... in ... Since 1994 the amount of energy consumed has also gone up. Besides, the areas we are talking about are so vast as to make the concept ...
Eric Thurston
enthurston
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Nov 17, 2002
10:06 pm

Personally I'd prefer to get rid of Texas rather than Alabama, Georgia and Mississippi, though it is a tough choice. The world will benefit whichever way we...
John Goss
johnprometheus
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Nov 17, 2002
12:34 am

I have decided to give away some of the Dinosaur blood symbols to members of this group. After all, if I am the only one wearing it, then there can be no...
S Morningthunder
tokayo
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Nov 20, 2002
11:23 am

Hi Steve, Tuesday, November 19, 2002, 11:52:16 PM, you wrote: SM> I have decided to give away some of the Dinosaur blood symbols to SM> members of this group....
b
b@...
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Nov 21, 2002
12:53 am

... I've got an acrylic paperweight on my desk that contains a drop shaped 20 ml of crude oil, which was a promotional item made by PEMEX that inspired me to...
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Nov 21, 2002
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Would there really be so great a philosophical or symbolic difference between using crude and refined oil? If so, what would it be? Jack Dingler...
Jack Dingler
weaseldog2001
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Nov 21, 2002
4:36 pm

Hi S, ... SM> It was a real bitch for me. I finally found someone who knew someone SM> who worked in a Mexican oil refinery, and bought it from them, at some ...
b
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Nov 21, 2002
6:58 pm

Steve- Thank you for the kind offer of dino-blood pendants. I would love to have- and pledge to wear- the "square wire" model shown on the web page. I would be...
jfbaldauf
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Nov 21, 2002
12:54 am

DINOSAURS Does any member of this group have articles, information, views or comments about DINOSAURS and their relation to Fossil Energy Civilization ? Those...
Andrew MacKillop
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Nov 21, 2002
2:47 pm

... I made my effort at http://greatchange.org/bb-electricity.html which includes a link to "entire energy cost" where the additional energy that it would take...
S Morningthunder
tokayo
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Nov 20, 2002
11:24 am

... http://greatchange.org/bb-electricity.html which includes a link to "entire energy cost" where the additional energy thatit would take is treated.<<< ...
Ron Patterson
readyourdarwin
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Nov 21, 2002
12:27 am

... No, I didn't leave it out. "And, this is before taking into consideration the entire energy cost. It goes back to our dinosaur blood spooner. You've got to...
S Morningthunder
tokayo
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Nov 21, 2002
2:42 pm

... For an isothermal process the energy (barring friction etc.) is just NkT ln(V_end/V_start) or nRT ln(V_end/V_start) k is Boltzmann's constant, R is the gas...
Jacob Lund Fisker
fiskerch
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Nov 21, 2002
2:47 pm
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