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Reply | Forward Message #6242 of 122638 |
Re: Corporations, energy, money, and the future

>> Once the amount of useful work
>> seriously declines is where the real problems start to set in.

Good point! We just have to be careful how we define "useful".

For example, I've often observed that the entire global "soft drink"
industry could and would be eliminated in any rational world, as this
is a collossal waste of energy and resources, with only two outcomes
(apart from source/sink stuff):

- a brief and mildly pleasurable stupefaction of the senses
- tooth decay

However, it is a big industry that indirectly involves many people's
livelihoods.

So, is the energy involved in the soft drink industry doing "useful
work" or not ? From a rational point of view, obviously no. From the
real-world point of view, if you eliminate it magically today, you
have to deal with the social/economic/political represcussions -
which could quickly (if analogous thinking were simultaneously
applied to other useless activities such as plastic toy industry)
take you into very deep water (social/class 'expectation
management',depression, war, revolution) which, while perhaps wll
worth venturing into, have their own serious implications for deeper
values you might wish to uphold.

No way out ?

-Scott Meredith






Wed Mar 7, 2001 8:58 pm

lynx5_5@...
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Message #6242 of 122638 |
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... Sorry, Lorenzo, but everybody does *not* "agree" with Jay Dieoff Hanson. Even on this list, there are people who feel he is wrong, and a lot more who feel...
Thomas R Mazanec
tmazanec1@...
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Mar 7, 2001
12:19 am

[Lorenzo Matteoli] You have a good point Tom Mazanec To Humans, sorry for that: what I was trying to do was to jump out of a sterile paradygm. Those who do not...
Lorenzo Matteoli
matteoli@...
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Mar 7, 2001
11:21 am

Sure I agree that if civilization holds together amd we don't have people dying in massive numbers from starvation, thirst and plagues, then we won't have...
weaseldog2001@...
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Mar 7, 2001
3:12 pm

Lorenzo Matteoli says: <Corporations will soon see the enormous economic advantages that <the consistent "management" of the slow catastrophe may <imply for...
Tom Robertson
t1r@...
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Mar 7, 2001
3:38 pm

... What is really important is "useful work," which is the energy that actually goes into the performance of what is needed economically. The rest of the...
Lawrence B. Crowell
lcrowell@...
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Mar 7, 2001
6:24 pm

... Good point! We just have to be careful how we define "useful". For example, I've often observed that the entire global "soft drink" industry could and...
lynx5_5@...
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Mar 7, 2001
11:50 pm

Lorenzo Matteoli wrote: <snip> ... Are you sure about this? You may be right if the Glomart economists can figure ways to "design the decline" so that it...
Karl Davies
kdavies@...
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Mar 12, 2001
2:25 am

[Lorenzo Matteoli] ... A lot of money can be made selling energy technologies with a negative energy return before the bottom line has to be paid (by somebody...
Lorenzo Matteoli
matteoli@...
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Mar 12, 2001
2:16 pm

~~~~~~ EnergyResources Moderator Comment ~~~~~~ In a prior post, I asked: Would someone very clearly explain what falsefiability is and how it works. Jay...
Jay Hanson
jay@...
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Mar 12, 2001
4:24 pm

... at this point in time an irrelevant mind-bender. If I were Richard Duncan, I would be very sorry indeed to read this (above comment). This means that...
lynx5_5@...
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Mar 12, 2001
11:30 pm

... Scott, Well said. The easy dismissal of Duncan is especially depressing in the context of a supposedly rational and numerate audience. Duncan has...
palladious@...
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Mar 13, 2001
4:02 pm
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