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Re: Separating Prints from Glass   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #84241 of 103335 |
Re: Separating Prints from Glass


----- Original Message -----
From: "Laurie Solomon" <laurie@...>
To: <epson-inkjet@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 4:21 AM
Subject: RE: Separating Prints from Glass


> different type of resin coating that enables the creation of surface
> textures on it as well as protecting the emulsion layers from scratching
and
> abrasion. The earlier papers may have been handled differently with the
> coatings encapsulating the only the paper substrata and not the emulsions
or
> on the top and bottom with no middle layer of resin coating.

Resin covers a wide group of materials. Modern coating techniques
consist often of multiple layers. The first could be to increase the
adherence of the emulsion to the corona treated polyethylene,
the second the actual silver containing layer (black and white only
but there seem to be multi sensitive layers in BW too) and then
a less hydrophile gelatine or PVA layer on top.

> With respect to inkjet papers, I would think that there may be a absorbent
> layer between the substrata and a topmost layer which is also a type of
> micropoureous layer, which serves to permit surface textures while
allowing
> the ink to be absorbed by the layer below and protected from being
attacked.

I always thought the microporeus layers are just the absorbent materials
where the particle structure has an enormous surface on a low volume.
Charcoal like. The recipes I have for that kind of material (Laponite)
says mixing it with resolved PVA. In inkjet papers the coatings
are also multiple layered. For instance a barrier layer on the paper,
a gelatine or PVA with a lower amount of absorber on that and a layer
with a lot of absorber on top. I think it is damned difficult to use
membranes on the top without getting puddling and drying problems.

What is interesting (and I have written about it several times) is a
receptive coating that can be closed and sealed after printing so
oxidation of dyes, staining, scratching has less chance. FIRST foils
are based on a heat treatment that lets the absorber particles with
pigment ink sink in the underlying wax/resin layer. Ilford is busy to
develop coatings for dyes and pigments that have similar properties.
End of the year on the market seems to be the goal. Suggested heat
tool is a lamination press but it should work with a hot air gun too.
Whether this works along the lines of the FIRST foil coating or uses
heat sensitive hardeners for the gelatine I don't know. An indication
that it works like the first :-) is the possible use of texture mould foils
in the process so you can create a variety of textures on one kind of
paper.

Ernst


-
Turn off HTML mail features. Keep quoted material short. Use accurate
subject lines. http://www.leben.com/lists for list instructions.



Thu Jun 14, 2001 8:14 am

e.dinkla@...
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Forward
Message #84241 of 103335 |
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Thanks for the detailed technical information on this. ... From: owner-epson-inkjet@... [mailto:owner-epson-inkjet@...]On Behalf Of Ernst Dinkla ...
Laurie Solomon
laurie@...
Send Email
Jun 15, 2001
5:23 am

... From: "Laurie Solomon" <laurie@...> To: <epson-inkjet@...> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 4:21 AM Subject: RE: Separating Prints from Glass...
Ernst Dinkla
e.dinkla@...
Send Email
Jun 14, 2001
9:24 am

I am just a professional photographer who runs his own black and white lab and not a chemist so my understanding is a layperson's and not a technical knowledge...
Laurie Solomon
laurie@...
Send Email
Jun 15, 2001
5:33 am

... I can see this for water-based inks, but if they are oil-based inks, will moisture really draw them out? I think not. ... Mold and fungus growth occurs on...
Victor
lights@...
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Jun 14, 2001
3:48 pm

So, why don't you people who think it is not a problem to have the print mounted flush against the glass just go ahead and display all your prints that way....
Stan McQueen
stan@...
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Jun 14, 2001
8:27 pm

Maybe I'm mistaken but I distinctly recall a polite request from mgmt to "close" this thread. This is my attempt to so do . . . ... - Turn off HTML mail...
Bob Tyson
bobicho@...
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Jun 14, 2001
7:17 pm

In article <p05010401b74e98f65ff0@[209.179.197.69]>, Bob Tyson <bobicho@...> writes ... Never truer written words! -- Kennedy Yes, Socrates himself...
Kennedy McEwen
rkm@...
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Jun 15, 2001
12:01 am

In article <p05010401b74e98f65ff0@[209.179.197.69]>, Bob Tyson <bobicho@...> writes ... I am sure that those interested and contributing to this...
Kennedy McEwen
rkm@...
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Jun 15, 2001
4:19 pm

From: Victor <lights@...> ... paper? I think ... If it is the ... contact with ... It doesn't matter whether the ink is in or on the paper. The primary ...
Dave King
kingphoto@...
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Jun 14, 2001
10:36 pm

... Greater heating of the print? Explain how a print would be heated more without an airspace than with one. The insulating properties of the airspace will ...
Victor
lights@...
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Jun 16, 2001
4:55 am

... From: "Laurie Solomon" <laurie@...> To: <epson-inkjet@...> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 5:52 AM Subject: RE: Separating Prints from Glass ...
Ernst Dinkla
e.dinkla@...
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Jun 16, 2001
5:40 am

I think I am beginning to catch on. Thanks again. ... From: owner-epson-inkjet@... [mailto:owner-epson-inkjet@...]On Behalf Of Ernst Dinkla Sent:...
Laurie Solomon
laurie@...
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Jun 16, 2001
6:34 pm

From: Victor <lights@...> ... primary ... surface ... by ... more without ... will ... will still be ... I was thinking the print would reach higher...
Dave King
kingphoto@...
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Jun 16, 2001
2:16 pm

In article <009301c0f665$13068ca0$7ac5fea9@vaio>, Dave King <kingphoto@...> writes ... It all comes down to the spectral transmission of glass in...
Kennedy McEwen
rkm@...
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Jun 17, 2001
12:01 am

From: Kennedy McEwen <rkm@...> ... refraction ... thermal ... or ... to go ... material ... If ... an ... conduction ... room ... by ... their...
Dave King
kingphoto@...
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Jun 17, 2001
5:14 pm

In article <005901c0f748$5dd7bea0$7ac5fea9@vaio>, Dave King <kingphoto@...> writes ... That is my expectation - unless the print is not illuminated...
Kennedy McEwen
rkm@...
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Jun 18, 2001
1:05 am

... Several people have suggested that buckling is a problem. Please explain how there can be buckling. It seems to me that if the print is held firmly against...
Victor
lights@...
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Jun 18, 2001
2:00 am

... Yeah, that's what the Pacific plate and the North American plate thought, too. And the bimetallic strip in a thermostat. -- David Dyer-Bennet /...
David Dyer-Bennet
dd-b@...
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Jun 18, 2001
4:05 am

... I understand what you are getting at here. These analogies assume there is some flexibility in the materials, however. My thoughts are that given...
Victor
lights@...
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Jun 18, 2001
6:20 am

... And that's why I picked the first example; I don't think anything we're using is as rigid as any of the major tectonic plates. Whether the situation will...
David Dyer-Bennet
dd-b@...
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Jun 18, 2001
5:12 pm

David! Perhaps tectonic plates make a poor standard for "rigidity". One look at the rocks around San Francisco tells even the least-trained eye they bend,...
Bob Tyson
bobicho@...
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Jun 18, 2001
11:14 pm

How about Teutonic Plates? I believe they're used in a German printing process- maybe inkjet? Paul - Turn off HTML mail features. Keep quoted material short....
Paul Corsa
nipperdo@...
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Jun 19, 2001
2:06 pm

... But only if they're made from lithographic limestone. Bob (RPG #xxxx) - Turn off HTML mail features. Keep quoted material short. Use accurate subject...
Bob Tyson
bobicho@...
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Jun 19, 2001
7:01 pm

In your capacity as a professional geologist, would you say that tectonic plates were more rigid or less rigid than photo paper? Stan Former Unregistered...
Stan McQueen
stan@...
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Jun 19, 2001
4:18 pm

Dear FUP: IMMH&PPOJ (In My Most Humble And Prejudicial Professional Opinionated Judgment): Less. Bob But Inactive Professional Geologist (RBIPG) RPG xxxx ... -...
Bob Tyson
bobicho@...
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Jun 20, 2001
1:05 am

... That is the wrong question. A better question would be which is more rigid, the tectonic plates or a sheet of glass? Especially when the basis for...
Victor
lights@...
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Jun 20, 2001
2:03 am

... In fact these are NOT easy or obvious questions. They invoke a matrix of variables, not least of which are space (or scale) and time. Have you ever left a...
Bob Tyson
bobicho@...
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Jun 20, 2001
5:18 pm

Bob, You got pix of this graveyard? Bill Bob Tyson <bobicho@...>@leben.com on 06/20/2001 11:50:43 AM Please respond to epson-inkjet@... Sent...
wparsons@...
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Jun 20, 2001
6:17 pm

... Yes. Bob - Turn off HTML mail features. Keep quoted material short. Use accurate subject lines. http://www.leben.com/lists for list instructions....
Bob Tyson
bobicho@...
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Jun 21, 2001
3:53 am

It's all a matter of scale. I expect we're all just part of a big experiment to determine the archival qualities of tectonic plates as a printing medium and...
Bruce Roorda
possum1@...
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Jun 21, 2001
12:53 am
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