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Today's Topics:

1. Re: 200 watt hours /Kg ? Was: Cost effectiveness of EVs (Altenguy)
2. Re: 200 watt hours /Kg ? Was: Cost effectiveness of EVs
(Zeke Yewdall)
3. Re: Batteries vs capacitors (was: Cost effectiveness of EVs)
(Roland Wiench)
4. Re: 200 watt hours /Kg ? Was: Cost effectiveness of EVs
(Morgan LaMoore)
5. Electric Trabants. WAS Re: Found on eBay (Nikki Bloomfield)
6. Re: 200 watt hours /Kg ? Was: Cost effectiveness of EVs (Altenguy)
7. Logisystems so far so good this rev (Sam Maynard)
8. Re: Logisystems so far so good this rev (Brian Pikkula)
9. Re: 200 watt hours /Kg ? Was: Cost effectiveness of EVs
(Morgan LaMoore)
10. Re: easy heat solution? (Eric Poulsen)
11. Re: Does V2G (Vehicle to Grid) Make Sense? (Jon Bishop)
12. Chevy Volt on Today Show Video (Peter Oppewall)
13. Looking for experiences with Shandong HiPower, ThunderSky, or
Seiden (Thor Johnson)
14. Re: Does V2 Grid Make Sense (Peter Oppewall)
15. Re: Does V2G (Vehicle to Grid) Make Sense? (Ryan Stotts)
16. Re: easy heat solution? (Roland Wiench)
17. Re: Does V2G (Vehicle to Grid) Make Sense? (RICKRUNS26@...)
18. Re: Does V2G (Vehicle to Grid) Make Sense? (Harris, Lawrence)
19. Re: Does V2G (Vehicle to Grid) Make Sense? (Cory Cross)
20. Looking for an Avcon car end, (female connector) (Paul Wallace)
21. Re: Logisystems so far so good this rev (SLPinfo.org)
22. Re: Cost effectiveness of EVs (Jeff Shanab)
23. Re: 200 watt hours /Kg ? Was: Cost effectiveness of EVs
(Jeff Shanab)
24. Re: 200 watt hours /Kg ? Was: Cost effectiveness of EVs
(Jeff Shanab)
25. Re: Looking for an Avcon car end, (female connector)
(Okaauto@...)
26. Re: AC Meter for measuring KWhours? (Tom Coddington)
27. Re: Looking for an Avcon car end, (female connector)
(Morgan LaMoore)
28. Re: Electric Trabants. WAS Re: Found on eBay (dave cover)
29. Re: Looking for experiences with Shandong HiPower,
ThunderSky, or Seiden (dave cover)
30. Re: Electric Trabants. WAS Re: Found on eBay (cowtown@...)
31. Re: 200 watt hours /Kg ? Was: Cost effectiveness of EVs
(EVtrainingCenter@...)
32. Re: easy heat solution? (Chris Stephens)
33. Re: 200 watt hours /Kg ? Was: Cost effectiveness of EVs
(EVDL Administrator)
34. Re: Looking for experiences with Shandong HiPower,
ThunderSky, or Seiden (matt)
35. Re: 78 Toyota conversion (kd7sys)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 13:10:24 -0700
From: Altenguy <altenguy@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 200 watt hours /Kg ? Was: Cost effectiveness of
EVs
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Message-ID: <1231531824.5829.50.camel@...>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 13:07 -0600, Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> > Note the use of the word USEABLE in my statement below. Lithium Polymer
> > might have a nominal capacity of 200Wh/Kg, but you can't USE all of that
> > in an EV or the battery won't live.
>
> When I say "tested at over 200Wh/kg", I mean tested at over 200Wh/kg
> usable in a big battery pack in a car on the road.

Show me the test. I want that battery pack.

> What research shows that using the full capacity of a Lithium Polymer
> battery will murder the battery?

Every battery I know of has trouble with 100% charge discharge. Someone
else chime in here.




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 13:19:05 -0700
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <zyewdall@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 200 watt hours /Kg ? Was: Cost effectiveness of
EVs
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Message-ID:
<f446b2df0901091219h5db72cd7l65b5dec3db98f160@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Altenguy <altenguy@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> Every battery I know of has trouble with 100% charge discharge. Someone
> else chime in here.
>
>
It varies what the "trouble" is. With flooded NiCads 100% (and way more)
discharge is a way of equalizing them -- shorting each cell out to zero
volts with a bolted jumper, then recharge the pack again from zero. It's
only a problem for them if you have some of the string dead, and others not,
because you get reversed cells, I think.


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 13:14:57 -0800
From: "Roland Wiench" <ev_7@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Batteries vs capacitors (was: Cost effectiveness
of EVs)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Message-ID: <BLU144-DS33513B328FC7E2FAB9A01BEDD0@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Some time ago, before I did the last EV mod which included a Zilla, PFC and
180 volts of T-145's, I contacted ESMA in Russia at http://www.esma-cap.com
and a article at http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=338

I request what type of super capacitors that will take to replace the
battery space of 12 inches high by 45 inches wide and 55 inches long to
drive a 7200 lb EV at least 10 miles. To be able to provide 180 to 300
volts at a maximum surge ampere of 300 amps.

They responded with a spread sheet that list 20 large modules that about as
large as two T-145's that have a output of 9 to 13 volts at 2700 farads.

You can also get them in a single unit which you can bank together your self
or get them in cell pack like a battery case has.

The cost quoted just for the super caps modules is $39,000.00. A high
performance DC-DC converter is use between the bank of super capacitors to
the load which level the load as the capacitors discharge.

The problem here is, my rig is could carry the capacitors, but there would
be no room for the DC-DC converter and all the other accessory equipment.
Need something like a bus which is shown above.

The PFC-50 charger could be use, as long you taper up the current from 0 to
the maximum ampere the charger and circuit is design for. This is normally
done with this charger anyway. These super capacitors can be charge at a
pad mount charging station up to 300 amps for a quick charge.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: <EVtrainingCenter@...>
To: <ev@...>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Batteries vs capacitors (was: Cost effectiveness of EVs)


> Brings up old memories, in 1978, I went to Factory sponsored training on
> Panasonic "Video Disk" player ( the twelve inch disk that the compact
> audio disk
> "CD" descended from) And part of the Laser circuitry was a two farad
> polarized capacitor. It operated at 1.2 v. and we were told it was a
> specially
> constructed ni-cad cell to allow rapid charge and discharge and filtered
> out 1.2
> Mhz video noise. But I never had to replace one.
>
>
> In a message dated 1/9/2009 11:35:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> billdube@... writes:
>
> .
>
> Just in case you didn't know, nearly all of these "supercapacitors"
> use electrochemical energy storage.
> (Sounds like a battery to me.)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercapacitor
>
> As they strive to increase the energy storage of "capacitors" they
> indeed become "batteries".
>
> Bill Dube'
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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>
>
>
> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2
> easy
> steps!
>
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> cemailfooterNO62)
> _______________________________________________
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> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 15:27:19 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <morganl@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 200 watt hours /Kg ? Was: Cost effectiveness of
EVs
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Message-ID:
<4230c7190901091327v697a20bav741e217dba035286@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

> Show me the test. I want that battery pack.

http://www.svp.umn.edu/index.php

We drew over 6kWh from a 30kg pack multiple times during road testing
and the race (2008 NASC). The car transmitted telemetry data to
another vehicle, and that vehicle provided an interface for race
strategy, including battery energy. I don't have a nice test summary
with only publicly releasable data; if you think I'm lying, I'm not
going to try to convince you otherwise.

Note, however, that this vehicle is extremely efficient and has solar
cells helping it, so the average discharge was around 0.1-0.3C and the
peak discharge was just over 1C. These low currents mean that we saw
almost no voltage sag. Such low currents aren't possible in normal EV
conversions.

> Every battery I know of has trouble with 100% charge discharge. Someone
> else chime in here.

As Zeke said, NiCd doesn't have trouble with 100%. What makes you
sure that Lithium Polymer has this problem other than a broad
generalization that isn't universally true?

-Morgan LaMoore

On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Altenguy <altenguy@...> wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 13:07 -0600, Morgan LaMoore wrote:
>> > Note the use of the word USEABLE in my statement below. Lithium Polymer
>> > might have a nominal capacity of 200Wh/Kg, but you can't USE all of that
>> > in an EV or the battery won't live.
>>
>> When I say "tested at over 200Wh/kg", I mean tested at over 200Wh/kg
>> usable in a big battery pack in a car on the road.
>
> Show me the test. I want that battery pack.
>
>> What research shows that using the full capacity of a Lithium Polymer
>> battery will murder the battery?
>
> Every battery I know of has trouble with 100% charge discharge. Someone
> else chime in here.



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 15:43:14 +0000
From: Nikki Bloomfield <nikki@...>
Subject: [EVDL] Electric Trabants. WAS Re: Found on eBay
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Message-ID: <FC29AD69-23ED-4F0D-8731-E7AC753431FC@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

OH yes...

And i've ridden in it ;)

In fact, several people have converted a Trabant. The one locally to
me in Bristol, UK, is limited to about 75mph by it's owner. He says
it's wheel-spinning-tastic in lower gears. I believe it's the fastest
electric Trabant out there as he's kept the gearbox and gone for a
custom-wound motor. (Don't quote me on the last bit though). He's
implemented software limits to both RPM and top speed.

FlickrAlbum for it is here:
http://flickr.com/photos/anachrocomputer/sets/72157604747849759/
- A friend of mine took various photos of the Trabant during
conversion and subsequent trips.

We had a pub meet last weekend where the owner turned up. He's managed
to do something to the brushes after a stray piece of road-debris hit
it at speed. He's awaiting a replacement from the US. Since the
photos above were taken the car has had a re-spray. I've got a photo
of it on my blog :
http://aminorjourney.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/160920083192.jpg

The couple who converted it, Martin and Judy Joinson, are Trabant fans
and thought it quite fine to convert this particular trabbi.

Nikki.



> While searching for NEVs, I came across this:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110334519430
>
> which lead to this:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAZ-1111
>
> which made me wonder:
> Has anyone ever converted a Trabant? May not be Russian, but just as
> much "russky business" in a collision...
>
> Think more
> Talk less
> Become wise
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 15:20:38 -0700
From: Altenguy <altenguy@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 200 watt hours /Kg ? Was: Cost effectiveness of
EVs
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Message-ID: <1231539638.5829.56.camel@...>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 15:27 -0600, Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> > Show me the test. I want that battery pack.
>
> http://www.svp.umn.edu/index.php
>
> We drew over 6kWh from a 30kg pack multiple times during road testing
> and the race (2008 NASC). The car transmitted telemetry data to
> another vehicle, and that vehicle provided an interface for race
> strategy, including battery energy. I don't have a nice test summary
> with only publicly releasable data; if you think I'm lying, I'm not
> going to try to convince you otherwise.
>
> Note, however, that this vehicle is extremely efficient and has solar
> cells helping it, so the average discharge was around 0.1-0.3C and the
> peak discharge was just over 1C.

:rolls eyes:

I shouldn't have to say this, but when I saw 200 watthours/Kg, I mean
under real world operating conditions in a real world EV based on a mass
produced vehicle.

> These low currents mean that we saw
> almost no voltage sag. Such low currents aren't possible in normal EV
> conversions.

Yeah.

> > Every battery I know of has trouble with 100% charge discharge. Someone
> > else chime in here.
>
> As Zeke said, NiCd doesn't have trouble with 100%. What makes you
> sure that Lithium Polymer has this problem other than a broad
> generalization that isn't universally true?


For example:

"Specially designed electronic motor speed controls are used to prevent
excessive discharge and subsequent battery damage. This is achieved
using a low voltage cutoff (LVC) setting that is adjusted to maintain
cell voltage greater than (typically) 3 V per cell."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_polymer_battery





------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 15:51:55 -0700
From: "Sam Maynard" <samm@...>
Subject: [EVDL] Logisystems so far so good this rev
To: "EVList" <ev@...>
Message-ID:

<20090109155155.a7902b45fce56df2271aada72e1d6aa8.239b50d6a6.wbe@...\
er.net>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

It's only been 2 days of not-too-rigorous road testing, but the latest
rev of Logisystems 156V 750A PWM DC controllers appears to have finally
resolved the issues some of us were experiencing. So far I'm leaving
the throttle ramp and current limit at half mast, and have only given
the motor side brief bursts of 600A which makes the 4600 lb. lead sled
it's installed on get up and go rather nicely.

Inviting feeback from other users.

-S




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 17:06:07 -0600
From: "Brian Pikkula" <pikkula.ev@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Logisystems so far so good this rev
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Message-ID:
<66304b3f0901091506j7f755e70n30bbc4c07ee1edf@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

At how many battery amps?

Do you have a blog or austinev entry?

Thanks,
Brian


On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Sam Maynard <samm@...> wrote:
> It's only been 2 days of not-too-rigorous road testing, but the latest
> rev of Logisystems 156V 750A PWM DC controllers appears to have finally
> resolved the issues some of us were experiencing. So far I'm leaving
> the throttle ramp and current limit at half mast, and have only given
> the motor side brief bursts of 600A which makes the 4600 lb. lead sled
> it's installed on get up and go rather nicely.
>
> Inviting feeback from other users.
>
> -S
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>



--
Brian in TX
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
really quite busy.



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 17:29:24 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <morganl@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 200 watt hours /Kg ? Was: Cost effectiveness of
EVs
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Message-ID:
<4230c7190901091529q2ac9f401j749ae453f113a682@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

> For example:
>
> "Specially designed electronic motor speed controls are used to prevent
> excessive discharge and subsequent battery damage. This is achieved
> using a low voltage cutoff (LVC) setting that is adjusted to maintain
> cell voltage greater than (typically) 3 V per cell."

Yes, of course we respected these limits. Our circuitry enforced
undervoltage, overvoltage, overcurrent, and overtemperature limits
more conservative than specified in the battery datasheet, and the
cells still delivered incredible energy density.

Discharging the batteries too far below 3V will cause dendrite growth
forming minute internal shorts and permanently damaging the cell. That
doesn't imply that the cell will rapidly decay when the low voltage
cutoff is respected.

> I shouldn't have to say this, but when I saw 200 watthours/Kg, I mean
> under real world operating conditions in a real world EV based on a mass
> produced vehicle.

Then I'd like to see the real-world ultracapacitor that can get more
than 10% of this.

Even LiFePO4 has over 10 times the energy density of any real-world
ultracapacitor.

Here's some good data on the cycle and calendar life of A123 LiFePO4:

http://batteryworkshop.msfc.nasa.gov/presentations/11_Dev_Batt_Packs_Space_Appl_\
DCarmen.pdf

-Morgan LaMoore

On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Altenguy <altenguy@...> wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 15:27 -0600, Morgan LaMoore wrote:
>> ...
>>
>> Note, however, that this vehicle is extremely efficient and has solar
>> cells helping it, so the average discharge was around 0.1-0.3C and the
>> peak discharge was just over 1C.
>
> :rolls eyes:
>
> I shouldn't have to say this, but when I saw 200 watthours/Kg, I mean
> under real world operating conditions in a real world EV based on a mass
> produced vehicle.
>
>> These low currents mean that we saw
>> almost no voltage sag. Such low currents aren't possible in normal EV
>> conversions.
>
> Yeah.
>
>> > Every battery I know of has trouble with 100% charge discharge. Someone
>> > else chime in here.
>>
>> As Zeke said, NiCd doesn't have trouble with 100%. What makes you
>> sure that Lithium Polymer has this problem other than a broad
>> generalization that isn't universally true?
>
>
> For example:
>
> "Specially designed electronic motor speed controls are used to prevent
> excessive discharge and subsequent battery damage. This is achieved
> using a low voltage cutoff (LVC) setting that is adjusted to maintain
> cell voltage greater than (typically) 3 V per cell."
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_polymer_battery
>



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 15:41:02 -0800
From: Eric Poulsen <eric@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] easy heat solution?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Message-ID: <4967E08E.4020105@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

You could always salvage a gas-powered heater from an old Corvair.
Gasoline is really inefficient at moving cars, but makes plenty of good
heat.

Just Kidding.

glasers wrote:
> I have been reading all the heating threads, and have found that they are not
> helping me in my quest for an easy heating solution. Is there a plug-n-play
> heating solution available? I have 144v pack, and a 12V auxollary Batt.
> Could I just buy a heater and fan from Harbor freight and have an easy way
> to plug it into my pack?
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93231
>
> I have a VW Bus, so it could sit right behind the driver and passenger seat.
>
> It wouldn't get into my ducts, but I a having a hard time figuring out how
> to do that.
>
> Thanks
>



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 15:47:55 -0800
From: Jon Bishop <jon.the.wise.gdrive@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Does V2G (Vehicle to Grid) Make Sense?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Message-ID: <519EFE84-B54F-4F12-A294-30C467D9C656@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes


On Jan 8, 2009, at 3:36 PM, Frank John wrote:

> A "smart grid" would include some level of intelligence in a lot of
> major appliances including EV's. When is the best time to heat your
> water? Run the air conditioning? Do a load of laundry? I believe
> in the future that there will be pricing options available and
> structured in such a way that consumers can save money while making
> optimal use of resources. If your factory EV has a 20 kwh pack and
> you only need 4 kwh to get home after work (and you've programmed it
> to let it know this), then why not sell off some of the excess?
> Especially if it's profitable?

I can see it now. It will be like day traders on the stock market.
They'll have huge P/U trucks that they fill with batteries so that
they can maximize the amount of energy they can hold, charge them up
at night (or whenever off peak is) and then sell back a ton of it
during the day(or whenever becomes on peak), when everyone's paying
more. This could become quite profitable.

But, if everyone did this, the biggest benefit would be an end to
brownouts. You have a peak load (AC startup, fridge, etc) and it draws
the excess off your EV which is right there in the garage instead of
pulling off the lines. The power wouldn't have to travel as far, and
would help load balance every home. Then, as soon as the startup has
completed, the EV could recharge off the AC, pulling much lower
currents.

Heck, if everyone did it, it might put an end to 'peak hours.' I know
it would help to decentralize the grid, which is something I strongly
believe needs to be done... of course, I feel that more people need to
generate their own electricity at home, as it's technically the
easiest energy to produce... We could have exercise bikes and
treadmills and rowing machines - by saving money on energy costs and
exercising at the same time, we could end the obesity epidemic and the
dependence on foreign oil (and coal power plants) at the same time.
Then there's passive solar, and windmills (where allowed) and hydro.
Heck, we could even have hamster wheels producing a little bit of power.

If we had a place to keep it all, there is very little limit to the
things we could do to create just a little bit more electricity.

~Jon



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:15:54 +0000
From: "Peter Oppewall" <info@...>
Subject: [EVDL] Chevy Volt on Today Show Video
To: ev@...
Message-ID: <W4627116408191601231546554@webmail1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

If you missed the live TV segment, here's a link to January 8, 2009
Matt Lauer and the Today Show broadcast from GM's Warren Research Center in
anticipation of next week's Detroit International Auto Show.

http://EVtransPortal.com/evindustrynews.html

Today Show Video: Is GM Volt The Car of the Future?


Regards,
Peter Oppewall
http://EVtransPortal.com







------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 19:46:49 -0500
From: "Thor Johnson" <tjohnson@...>
Subject: [EVDL] Looking for experiences with Shandong HiPower,
ThunderSky, or Seiden
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Message-ID: <7B958CF9A4D1B4428B10C703765EDAEA033B92@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Just what it says... looking for positive or negative (within the last
year or so... I've heard about the ThunderSky dead LiCo cell group buy)
experiences with the above.



I'm looking at 33 KWh of the 100AH sized cells, and I want to get some
feedback before sending a large check to a "rabbit hole where batteries
may / may not come out of".



I'm also looking to see if there's a ThunderSky buy in the next couple
of months so I can get a more recent price; I'm looking to place the
order sometime near the end of February (as far as I can tell)...



-Thor Johnson





------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:55:16 +0000
From: "Peter Oppewall" <info@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Does V2 Grid Make Sense
To: ev@...
Message-ID: <W4686220805205591231548916@webmail7>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

You can find links on the subject of vehicle to grid technology here:

http://EVtransPortal.com/cerip.html

Articles are linked at the bottom of this ongoing project page for EV recharging
information and resources.

Some suggested articles:

Vehicle to grid overview: Here is an overview of vehicle to grid (V2G)
technology that may have significant benefits for plug-in vehicle owners and the
grid.
(Google recharge link)

Vehicle To Grid Demonstration Project: Grid Regulation Ancillary Service With A
Battery Electric Vehicle
This is a bit old, from 2002, but this report by Alec Brooks of AC propulsion
was an early landmark in V2 Grid study.

Vehicle to Grid Power: University of Delaware Articles and Links (Headed up by
Dr. Willet Kempton a prominent researcher in V2 grid technology and economic
feasibility.)

There are a number of Peer reviewed articles on this link, including "Vehicle to
Grid Fundamentals: Calculating Capacity and net revenue"


I was at a conference last spring where Dr. kempton gave a presentation on the
potential for battery electric vehicles to earn several thousand dollars per
year for owners who would take advantage of "buying" elecgtericity during low
demand periods at low cost, and selling back to the grid during peak times, with
the ability to monitor the state of discharge to insure sufficient charge for a
trip home (based on user input).

One interesting point is that you don't absolutely have to have a "smart" grid
to do V2g, but it sure helps with taking advantage of the variability of
electric rates made possible by continuous monitoring of the demand and supply
cycles possible with a smart grid.

California is presently spending over US 1 billion to make their grid smart. In
some other parts of the country Utilities are taking a "wait and see what
happens in California" approach to investing in smart grid technology.

A good resource on smart grids is a newsletter http://www.smartgridnews.com/

If anyone finds additional articles for this EVtransPortal recharging
information project page please forward to info@... and I will
add.

Kind Regards,
Peter Oppewall
http://EVtransPortal.com









------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 19:41:12 -0600
From: "Ryan Stotts" <stotts.ryan@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Does V2G (Vehicle to Grid) Make Sense?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Message-ID:
<d26fa1ae0901091741i79f8e10arab55b2fb7f597ddc@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

> Does any of this make sense,

If I had a vehicle that had V2G; I would disable it. I want my
vehicle fully charged at all times while it is awaiting me to drive
it. How could having it tied into the power grid in such a fashion
allow the battery to be fully charged and stay that way?



------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 17:59:56 -0800
From: "Roland Wiench" <ev_7@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] easy heat solution?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Message-ID: <BLU144-DS275D17F68C9F1FCF2C627BEDA0@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello Eric,

That's is about the same type I got from Sam's Club. I only use it to
pre-heat my battery pack by inputting the heated air in a port in the
battery box, when my EV is going to set outside more than 8 hours in 0
degree temperature. The temperature of the batteries read 120 degrees while
heating and 77 degrees after setting 8 hours.

In the passenger compartment, I use two under dash heaters which one is a
640 watt and 840 watt at 120 vac. I got these units from a auto parts store.
I use a on dash 30 amp 2 pole 3 position selector switch to either select a
fuse AC power from the main AC plug in. or even can plug these units in
with a separate 120 vac plug in cord.

The other position of the selector switch can be use to select a future on
board AC 120 vac to main battery inverter which are costly at this time. I
have no ideal what they cost now, but my unit back in 1985 cost about
$500.00.

So far for the last 3 years, all I had to do is to preheat the passenger
compartment for about 15 minutes, before I leave. I can get the temperature
to over 80 degrees if I want to.

I try the 1500 watt Ceramic Pro-Heater by Lasko from Sam's Club for
preheating for about 30 minutes and it was cooking. The car was at work at
20 below and the outside of the car was steaming. Defrosted and melted all
the snow off. It was like driving on a hot summer day. The temperature was
reading 122 F! at the high setting.

So I found I did not have to have it that high wattage heater for a
permanent installation.

Roland








----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <eric@...>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] easy heat solution?


> You could always salvage a gas-powered heater from an old Corvair.
> Gasoline is really inefficient at moving cars, but makes plenty of good
> heat.
>
> Just Kidding.
>
> glasers wrote:
> > I have been reading all the heating threads, and have found that they
> > are not
> > helping me in my quest for an easy heating solution. Is there a
> > plug-n-play
> > heating solution available? I have 144v pack, and a 12V auxollary Batt.
> > Could I just buy a heater and fan from Harbor freight and have an easy
> > way
> > to plug it into my pack?
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93231
> >
> > I have a VW Bus, so it could sit right behind the driver and passenger
> > seat.
> >
> > It wouldn't get into my ducts, but I a having a hard time figuring out
> > how
> > to do that.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>



------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 21:04:05 EST
From: RICKRUNS26@...
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Does V2G (Vehicle to Grid) Make Sense?
To: ev@...
Message-ID: <d06.49420d40.36995c15@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

If the Grid is set up for V2G I wouldn't want to have my expensive light
weight high tech battery pack cycled at the power companies will. I would
rather
have a large backup system in my house made of cheap golf car batteries.
Call it H2G. (sounds redundant doesn't it) The wiring is already there all I
need is a battery pack and some electronics. Let the power companies play with
my non critical power storage not the one in our electric cars parked at work.
I'd hate to get out early and not be able to go home.
Rick

In a message dated 1/9/2009 7:43:28 P.M. Central Standard Time,
stotts.ryan@... writes:
> Does any of this make sense,

If I had a vehicle that had V2G; I would disable it. I want my
vehicle fully charged at all times while it is awaiting me to drive
it. How could having it tied into the power grid in such a fashion
allow the battery to be fully charged and stay that way?

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

**************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
headlines. (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002)



------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 18:06:05 -0800
From: "Harris, Lawrence" <Lawrence.Harris@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Does V2G (Vehicle to Grid) Make Sense?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Message-ID:
<56CC8ED5680E7F4CB9B940E73E8E766F06C6EF6D@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

The idea is you have a vehicle with a range of say 50% more than you
need on a daily basis. You then take a full charge at a discount but
offer up to say 10% of your charge back if the grid needs it. As soon
as the grid is ok again you charge back up. If you decide to go driving
at the low point you get 10% less range over what you might have had but
that should still be enough for your normal commuting needs. You
directly benefit from lower charge costs, the grid benefits from not
needing 'peaking' plants, you benefit indirectly from not paying for
those peaking plants. In a perfect world it's a win win scenario. It
does take some effort and buy-in to get there.

Lawrence

-----Original Message-----
From: ev-bounces@... [mailto:ev-bounces@...] On
Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 5:41 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Does V2G (Vehicle to Grid) Make Sense?

> Does any of this make sense,

If I had a vehicle that had V2G; I would disable it. I want my
vehicle fully charged at all times while it is awaiting me to drive
it. How could having it tied into the power grid in such a fashion
allow the battery to be fully charged and stay that way?

_______________________________________________
General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev





------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 18:16:09 -0800
From: Cory Cross <crcross@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Does V2G (Vehicle to Grid) Make Sense?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Message-ID: <496804E9.2040505@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

RICKRUNS26@... wrote:
> If the Grid is set up for V2G I wouldn't want to have my expensive light
> weight high tech battery pack cycled at the power companies will.
Some lithium batteries will have higher cycle life than you can use in
their calendar life. If so, any money you can get above the price it
cost to fill up will be profit to you up until you match the cycle life
to calendar life.

Cory



------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 18:27:46 -0800
From: Paul Wallace <ianaudio@...>
Subject: [EVDL] Looking for an Avcon car end, (female connector)
To: ev@...
Message-ID: <4DE38443-5003-469D-AD89-47344BBB3058@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

Does anyone have a source for the Avcon female, the car connector?

Thanks,
Paul Wallace



------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 19:42:42 -0700
From: "SLPinfo.org" <slpinfoprof@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Logisystems so far so good this rev
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Message-ID:
<e459cfaf0901091842w6fff9618l4ed1d588a798ab60@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Sam,

Actually I just heard from the guys are building my car
http://utahelectriccars.com/ who said they had had installed my logsystems
controller (750 A; 20-144V) and it goes makes my little Plymouth Colt (
http://www.evabum.co/1974) go like crazy. A few little tweaks and I should
be driving my first EV very soon.

They also said they spoke length with someone at Logsystems and essentially
they have gone back to their old design on these beause they couldn't really
get upgrades they were planning to work. But this is 'third hand' info so
you now know as much about it as I do.

- Peter Flipsen Jr

On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Sam Maynard <samm@...> wrote:

> It's only been 2 days of not-too-rigorous road testing, but the latest
> rev of Logisystems 156V 750A PWM DC controllers appears to have finally
> resolved the issues some of us were experiencing. So far I'm leaving
> the throttle ramp and current limit at half mast, and have only given
> the motor side brief bursts of 600A which makes the 4600 lb. lead sled
> it's installed on get up and go rather nicely.
>
> Inviting feeback from other users.
>
> -S
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 19:02:45 -0800
From: Jeff Shanab <jshanab@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cost effectiveness of EVs
To: ev@...
Message-ID: <49680FD5.7030904@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

>
> On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 18:44 -0700, Bill Dube wrote:
>
>> > Actually, 1 kW-hr/kg is only a 5x improvement over what we have now.
>> >
>> > Typical commute is 16 miles each way (32 total.)
>> > ( http://abcnews.go.com/technology/traffic/story?id=485098&page=1 )
>> >
>> > A practical EV must cover at least this distance. Three times this
>> > distance is more than is actually needed, but would allow a person to
>> > forget to plug it in one day and also would allow for errands, lunch
>> > runs, etc. Thus, a 100 mile range EV would fit the daily
>> > transportation needs of probably 90% of the population.
>> >
>> > Well, that is very straightforward to do with present battery
>> > technology at a very reasonable battery weight. You can easily build
>> > an EV with 100+ mile range that weighs the same as an equal HP and
>> > passenger capacity ICE car. An "OK" EV design gets 250 W-hrs/mile.
>> > You need a 25 kW-hr pack of these cells to get 100 miles. Using very
>> > common 120 W-hr/kg cells, the 100 mile EV needs a 208 kg battery
>> > pack. This is very reasonable.
>>
>
> Except that you can only run 50% DOD or the battery pack won't last. So
> then you need 416 Kg of batteries. Performance suffers and you no
> longer have a car that gets 250 W Hr per mile.
>
> We need something that lasts forever, can be charged/discharged at high
> currents without damage and can be run flat without problems. That
> sounds like a capacitor to me. Re: [EVDL] Cost effectiveness of EVs
>
>
>
Are you joking? or are you just very very young? ICE's dont last for
ever, just look at all the wrecking yards.
When you start an ICE it is metal on metal for the first few seconds.
then it wears at 100x for 1 min, 10x for 10 min and settles down to a
constant rate after that. That is why 300,000 highway miles = <100,000
city miles.

I have owned/own

1973 buick leSabre Moms car, motor threw chain at 125K,
fixed that then tranny went.
1968 Ford Fairlane Tranny went at 100K, Motor was strong
beyond 250K miles. (from the time when ford stress tested motors and
broke them in for us)
1973 Opel Manta Sisters car, Motor blew, rebuilt but
never right, too tight only run for 1-2 min.
1973 Opel Manta Got it becasue of bad tranny,
1988 Mitsubishi Pu Only new car I ever bought, 2 motors
because I autocrossed and learned the hard way about oil pan geometry.
199x nissan nsx 1600 Awsome car, but It had a low air intake
and i sucked in some water and bent every rod in the engine
1956 International S1204x4 OMG, 7200lbs, ford v8 motor 12-18MPG. ate
clutches and axles, but I beat it up. (it could get the front wheels off
the ground)
1995 Pontiac Grand am only 20K on odometer when bought in 1997.
Lemon, lost head gasket and leaked antifreeze into oil, lost #5 cylinder
on way to moms 6 mothes later. Put in a 2000 malibu motor because the
solved the piston problem by then. Tranny went by 100K. Stock tranny is
dumbed down version, not rebuildible. Put in a Heavy Duty Dyno'd tranny.

And my 1987 300zx EV first battery pack replaced under waranntee, but
may of just been the cold weather. I blew up the motor and the fix was
under $1000.
compare to the number of motors I have been thru above! The 2000 malibu
motor was 1500, the mitsu first motor was 4K under warrantee. and 1500
from wrecking yard the second time.

All the ICE's have had starters, alternators, mufflers some multiple cat
converters and smog checks; and radiators. half had have fuel pumps too.
Not a one made it 100K on the radiators. (100plus weather) The grand
am has lost it's heater core twice.

I now have about 4 years on my EV and it has allowed me to keep my
house. I think once you look at the whole picture, EV's are cost
effective and can only get better. Remember, we are still comparing OEM
ICE to backyard EV.

I am waiting, but I don't honestly believe the auto manufacturers will
really come out with a simple, reliable EV. They will not release until
they have protected every bit and have scared everyone just enough to
keep them from opening the hood. They operate on margins of planned
obselecence and designed cycle life.






------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 19:08:56 -0800
From: Jeff Shanab <jshanab@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 200 watt hours /Kg ? Was: Cost effectiveness of
EVs
To: ev@...
Message-ID: <49681148.90909@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

>
> We get 4kW out of 160 kg or 25Wh/kg on batteries with minimum 5 year
reliability and 200 w/mi (includes recharge loss) of 120 V AC from wall @ 15 A.
Probably a typo, but can we get the units correct please. So new members
won't be miss-lead.

that has to be 4kWh and 200wh/mi. Thanks



------------------------------

Message: 24
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 19:18:40 -0800
From: Jeff Shanab <jshanab@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 200 watt hours /Kg ? Was: Cost effectiveness of
EVs
To: ev@...
Message-ID: <49681390.3020309@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

>
> On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 11:42 -0600, Morgan LaMoore wrote:
>
>> > BAK Lithium Polymer: http://tinyurl.com/9vwbp4
>> >
>> > Just over 200Wh/kg tested, under $0.70/Wh for less than 1,000 cells.
>> >
>> > There are many Lithium Polymer cells with similar performance.
>>
>
> Note the use of the word USEABLE in my statement below. Lithium Polymer
> might have a nominal capacity of 200Wh/Kg, but you can't USE all of that
> in an EV or the battery won't live.
>
> We need to stop talking about nominal capacity and start talking about
> useable capacity.
>
> Furthermore, the battery capacity degrades as the pack ages. So we
> start out at maybe 200 wh/Kg, of which we can use 60% on a regular
> basis. That gives us 120wh/kg. And then the pack loses 25% as it
> ages. We are left with less than 100 wh/Kg.
>
> You can use 100% of a capacitor and not hurt it. They probably won't
> degrade as they age.
>

WROOOOONG

Capacitors have a heat cycle life and an age limit.
Addmittidly the high $ ultracaps are gonna have better construction but
I can't tell you how many electrolytics I have replaced in old power
supplies.

They are usually "Electrochemical Double Layer Electrolytic" capacitors.
Look into them, there are failure mechinisms.
You thought LiFePo4 had tight BMS reguirements? Look into the BMS need
for suoer caps in series.!



------------------------------

Message: 25
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 23:16:20 EST
From: Okaauto@...
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for an Avcon car end, (female connector)
To: ev@...
Message-ID: <cdf.430ec4f7.36997b14@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

We have them

OKA AUTO COM

_www.okaauto.com_ (http://www.okaauto.com)

FORD OEM version
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://\
www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De
cemailfooterNO62)


------------------------------

Message: 26
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 11:48:27 -0800
From: Tom Coddington <coddington@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] AC Meter for measuring KWhours?
To: justthesells@..., Electric Vehicle Discussion List
<ev@...>
Message-ID: <4967AA0B.4070505@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Joel,
There?s a unit called a "Kill A Watt". They cost about $35. Only
good for a max. of 15 amps though. Mine is a model P4400. Maybe they
make ones that can handle more amps. Mine has a digital readout and
shows any one of the following: voltage, amps,watts, Hz and Kwh.
Tom
Joel Sell wrote:
> Where can I get a meter for measuring my KWhours that wires in BEFORE my 120v
AC outlet? I want to hard wire it into the outlet, not have it be something that
I can plug in and take out, and something that doesn't cost me an arm and a leg.
I'm finding some online, but most of them cost more than $100, and I was hoping
to spend less than $25.
> Thanks,
> Joel in Philly
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>



------------------------------

Message: 27
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 22:30:46 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <morganl@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for an Avcon car end, (female connector)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Message-ID:
<4230c7190901092030h4b68dc98g6bf232056d6a35dd@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Could you provide a more direct link? I couldn't find them, and a
google search for "site:okaauto.com Avcon" returned no results.

-Morgan LaMoore

On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:16 PM, <Okaauto@...> wrote:
> We have them
>
> OKA AUTO COM
>
> _www.okaauto.com_ (http://www.okaauto.com)
>
> FORD OEM version
> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
> steps!
>
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://\
www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De
> cemailfooterNO62)
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>



------------------------------

Message: 28
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 23:35:55 -0500
From: "dave cover" <davecover@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Trabants. WAS Re: Found on eBay
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Message-ID:
<ae3bc37c0901092035j4479939i62ec18d3532e0d5d@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Nice photos Nikki. I noticed that, even in the UK, no job is complete
without a little silver duct tape. Keep those EVs going.

Dave Cover, no stranger to bobby pins and bailing wire

On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Nikki Bloomfield <nikki@...
> wrote:

> OH yes...
>
> And i've ridden in it ;)
>
> FlickrAlbum for it is here:
> http://flickr.com/photos/anachrocomputer/sets/72157604747849759/
> - A friend of mine took various photos of the Trabant during
> conversion and subsequent trips.
>
>
> --
> http://www.evalbum.com/2149
>


------------------------------

Message: 29
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 23:39:39 -0500
From: "dave cover" <davecover@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for experiences with Shandong HiPower,
ThunderSky, or Seiden
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Message-ID:
<ae3bc37c0901092039pcd42d1bv931b6ed4a88c853e@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

In addition to Thors request, how many cells are people buying at a time? Is
there a certain minimum quantity a buyer should consider? After looking
roughly at my needs I was thinking about pricing a pack of 54 LFP100s. Is
this too small to buy on my own?

On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Thor Johnson <
tjohnson@...> wrote:

> Just what it says... looking for positive or negative (within the last
> year or so... I've heard about the ThunderSky dead LiCo cell group buy)
> experiences with the above.
>
>
>
> I'm looking at 33 KWh of the 100AH sized cells, and I want to get some
> feedback before sending a large check to a "rabbit hole where batteries
> may / may not come out of".
>
>
>
> I'm also looking to see if there's a ThunderSky buy in the next couple
> of months so I can get a more recent price; I'm looking to place the
> order sometime near the end of February (as far as I can tell)...
>
>
>
> -Thor Johnson
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>


--
http://www.evalbum.com/2149


------------------------------

Message: 30
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 20:51:08 -0800
From: cowtown@...
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Trabants. WAS Re: Found on eBay
To: ev@...
Message-ID:
<20090109205108.99qrybnhogwkss04-pbjgbja@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
format="flowed"

> OH yes...
>
> And i've ridden in it ;)
>
> FlickrAlbum for it is here:
> http://flickr.com/photos/anachrocomputer/sets/72157604747849759/
> - A friend of mine took various photos of the Trabant during
> conversion and subsequent trips.
>

To quote my son (and Carl on ATHF): "Friggin' Awesome!"

75mph? And here I was only thinking of a trabbi as an unusual NEV glider...!


Think more
Talk less
Become wise



------------------------------

Message: 31
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:03:07 EST
From: EVtrainingCenter@...
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 200 watt hours /Kg ? Was: Cost effectiveness of
EVs
To: ev@...
Message-ID: <d53.3e2a3da6.3699860b@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Edison cells, that is zinc and iron ( I think) were used in the NY Times
Paper delivery trucks used from 1905 to 1955 In an article in "Pop. Mechanics"
said they were still using same cells in the traction pack. They were stored
with a dead short of a bus bar across the terminals.


In a message dated 1/9/2009 3:21:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
zyewdall@... writes:

On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Altenguy <altenguy@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> Every battery I know of has trouble with 100% charge discharge. Someone
> else chime in here.
>
>
It varies what the "trouble" is. With flooded NiCads 100% (and way more)
discharge is a way of equalizing them -- shorting each cell out to zero
volts with a bolted jumper, then recharge the pack again from zero. It's
only a problem for them if you have some of the string dead, and others not,
because you get reversed cells, I think.
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 32
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:04:29 -0500
From: "Chris Stephens" <stub@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] easy heat solution?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Message-ID: <001801c972e0$eb771320$0500a8c0@chris>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

The gas heater you are talking about was made by Stewart Warner, called a
"South Wind" I think VW bugs had them as a factory option but they were also
an aftermarket thing.

You can still get them http://www.stewart-warner.com/
Stub


Eric Poulsen wrote:
> You could always salvage a gas-powered heater from an old Corvair.
> Gasoline is really inefficient at moving cars, but makes plenty of
> good heat.
>
> Just Kidding.
>
> glasers wrote:
>> I have been reading all the heating threads, and have found that
>> they are not helping me in my quest for an easy heating solution.
>> Is there a plug-n-play heating solution available? I have 144v
>> pack, and a 12V auxollary Batt. Could I just buy a heater and fan
>> from Harbor freight and have an easy way to plug it into my pack?
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93231
>>
>> I have a VW Bus, so it could sit right behind the driver and
>> passenger seat.
>>
>> It wouldn't get into my ducts, but I a having a hard time figuring
>> out how to do that.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 33
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:20:07 -0500
From: "EVDL Administrator" <evpost@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 200 watt hours /Kg ? Was: Cost effectiveness of
EVs
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Message-ID: <4967E9B7.28688.23C2796E@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On 10 Jan 2009 at 0:03, EVtrainingCenter@... wrote:

> Edison cells, that is zinc and iron ( I think) were used in the NY Times
> Paper delivery trucks used from 1905 to 1955 In an article in "Pop. Mechanics"
> said they were still using same cells in the traction pack. They were stored
> with a dead short of a bus bar across the terminals.

Edison used nickel and iron with an alkaline electrolyte. They were famously
long-lived. Modern NiMH batteries are really just an improved version of
these batteries.

http://www.evdl.org/docs/edison_brochure.pdf

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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------------------------------

Message: 34
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:31:07 +0900
From: "matt" <mc.lacey@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for experiences with Shandong HiPower,
ThunderSky, or Seiden
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@...>
Message-ID: <022b01c972e4$a34bbed0$0a01a8c0@mattlaptop2>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Guys,

Ive had good experiences with thundersky cells for my scooter in the past
year or so:
http://www.evalbum.com/1499

I also own 90 x lfp90s, which ill be putting into my mr2.

If you buy from a distributor such as everspring, you can order any quantity
you like.
If you want to buy from the factory, it really only makes sense if you are
building several cars.

I know to get the price really cheap last time ($US1.20/AH ex factory) we
bought, we had to buy around 35'000AH.

Btw, Thor, where are you loacted?
If you are after a group buy, its usually better to be buying with people
near you.
Im in Australia btw.

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: ev-bounces@... [mailto:ev-bounces@...] On Behalf
Of dave cover
Sent: Saturday, 10 January 2009 1:40 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for experiences with Shandong HiPower,
ThunderSky,or Seiden

In addition to Thors request, how many cells are people buying at a time? Is
there a certain minimum quantity a buyer should consider? After looking
roughly at my needs I was thinking about pricing a pack of 54 LFP100s. Is
this too small to buy on my own?

On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Thor Johnson <
tjohnson@...> wrote:

> Just what it says... looking for positive or negative (within the last
> year or so... I've heard about the ThunderSky dead LiCo cell group
> buy) experiences with the above.
>
>
>
> I'm looking at 33 KWh of the 100AH sized cells, and I want to get some
> feedback before sending a large check to a "rabbit hole where
> batteries may / may not come out of".
>
>
>
> I'm also looking to see if there's a ThunderSky buy in the next couple
> of months so I can get a more recent price; I'm looking to place the
> order sometime near the end of February (as far as I can tell)...
>
>
>
> -Thor Johnson
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines:
> http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>


--
http://www.evalbum.com/2149
_______________________________________________
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Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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------------------------------

Message: 35
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 21:50:33 -0800 (PST)
From: kd7sys <kd7sys@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 78 Toyota conversion
To: ev@...
Message-ID: <21385212.post@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


I have not looked at the truck yet, but from the pictures the body looks to
be in good shape. The owner said that is has a 20R. I have not found an
adapter for this one yet. There are several newer toyotas and s-10s, I may
look for one of these. Do you live in a region where you need to have heat
in your truck or is it a summer time rig?


Zeke Yewdall wrote:
>
> Sounds similar to mine. 1974 Ford Courier pickup. What engine did the
> '78
> have? There are quite a few adaptors for the 22R out there, and I'm not
> sure if it took the same bell housing and such as the 20R or not. Does it
> have power brakes or not... 4 wheel drum brakes? (I have an '81 that
> has
> front discs, but not sure when they switched). If you are doing a system
> without regen, and have hills, you probably want some disc brakes. How is
> the overall condition of the truck? It's nice to find the rust free ones,
> because otherwise you spend all your time doing damage control instead of
> building an EV.
>
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Chris Bellamy <kd7sys@...> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> I am considering converting a 78 Toyota PU to a EV. Are there any gotchas
>> I
>> should be aware of? Will I have issues getting adapter plates?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chris
>> _______________________________________________
>> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
>> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>

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------------------------------

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End of EV Digest, Vol 18, Issue 23
**********************************