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Today's Topics:

1. Re: OT Simpson VOM question (Dave Hale)
2. Why not drop the other shoe and have an all electric volt?
(Ken Fry)
3. Re: OT Simpson VOM question (Kelly Hales)
4. Re: OT Simpson VOM question (Kelly Hales)
5. Re: OT Simpson VOM question (evan foss)
6. Re: 2009, comeback for low rolling resistance tires ?
(Ricky Suiter)
7. Re: Personal "Plasma Event" (stub@...)
8. Re: OT Simpson VOM question (JS)
9. Re: 2009, comeback for low rolling resistance tires ? (m gol)
10. Re: Smurf gloves (was: Personal "Plasma Event") (Toby B)
11. Help for a Spokane Washington area EV'er (AMPhibian)
12. Australian EV Insurance (Christie Cooksey)
13. How many miles on lithium? (Al)
14. Re: Smurf gloves (was: Personal "Plasma Event") (Thos True)
15. Re: Smurf gloves (was: Personal "Plasma Event") (Thos True)
16. Looking for EV Grins. (Nathan Stowe)
17. Re: Help for a Spokane Washington area EV'er (damon henry)
18. Re: Laguna Seca (Will Beckett)
19. Re: How many miles on lithium? (Willie McKemie)
20. Re: How many miles on lithium?How FAR on a
charge????????????? (Bob Rice)
21. Re: Help for a Spokane Washington area EV'er (AMPhibian)
22. Re: How many miles on lithium?How FAR on a
charge????????????? (Willie McKemie)
23. Re: 2009, comeback for low rolling resistance tires ?
(Jeff Shanab)
24. Re: How many miles on lithium?How FAR on a
charge????????????? (gottdi@...)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:32:49 -0700
From: Dave Hale <dave@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT Simpson VOM question
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Message-ID:
<6368e4f70907021232o3e9ef6bbsab79b61df3295d4f@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

In a DC circuit the fact that it is wire-wound should not matter, but in
this application you probably do need to adhere to a <= 1% tolerance
resistor so your 22 ohm is out (which may be 22 ohm +/- 10%, even). Metal
foil is typically the construction of precision resistors. If you don't find
what you need through the surplus channels, you can buy these off the shelf
at places like digikey.com or mouser.com. For example,
Mouser part # 71-PTF6522R600FYBF

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtn16vD%252bEOkdyoSW\
WFdsY%252bNgR1Qtz63AWQ%3d

might do it.


On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Kelly Hales <khales@...> wrote:

> The resistor in question is a 22.5 ohm and the parts list says its wire
> wound. A trip to Elliot Electronics here in Tucson wasn't much help on the
> wire wound spec. But I did pick up some 22 ohm 1 watt and 2 watt resistors,
> in the standard variety. My question is, will the not being wire wound
> matter much and will the .5 ohm make much of a difference.
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 15:30:19 -0400
From: "Ken Fry" <kenfry@...>
Subject: [EVDL] Why not drop the other shoe and have an all electric
volt?
To: <ev@...>
Message-ID: <000001c9fb4b$8b59b1c0$0201a8c0@gaia>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Jack,
I agree that, ultimately, small battery packs and ubiquitous fast charge
stations is a great approach. The battery swapping approach (Better
Place) can only work if you have agreement on one or two battery pack
sizes - and such agreement will be impossible to get, other than for
test programs, fleets, etc... That does not lead to mass market
acceptance. Obviously, the very last thing a vehicle like mine needs is
a battery pack suitable for a midsized car: efficiency would plummet
from hauling around excess weight, and aerodynamics would suffer from
the packaging requirements.

Today, there are 10C-charge-capable batteries (albeit at a high price).
That's 6 minutes to a full charge, so if we stop for 3 minutes when the
battery is half discharged, we'd have completely acceptable convenience.
(Of course, if the stations are standardized -- at let's say 480 VAC
600A -- then each vehicle would need a hefty onboard charger to do the
rectification, control, etc. - but the weight and cost would be
manageable, no doubt.) Of course, we don't have these fast charge
stations, and no one wants to install them without a guarantee of usage.
Thus, the requirement for PHEVS to lead the way. When you have 300,000
people saying "Gee, it would be nice to just charge up my Volt at
Starbucks, rather that at a dirty smelly gas station" then a few fast
charge stations will go in.. and then some more...

My test mule, (the white vehicle) is, as you imply, a death trap. It
exists to be able to test small, cheap systems that are otherwise
functionally the same as those that will be on the pre-production
prototype. I'll end up with several thousand miles on the test mule -
but I'll be careful - at least it is a little safer than a motorcycle.


The real pre-production prototype, which will be a two-seater rather
than single-seater, and which will have the external side impact
protection system, will do better in the federal and IIHS crash tests
than the typical small car - particular in side impact, where all cars
are relatively poor because they have no crush space. (A recent IIHS
report showed that three full-sized pickups actually did worse than the
Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris in side impact tests, in which greater mass
should help: engineering counts, in this case even more than mass
counts.) The preproduction prototype will be the vehicle used in the
Progressive Insurance Automotive X Prize - and one of their requirements
is that you can demonstrate that the vehicle will be safe, in both
active and passive senses.

The pre-production prototype will also far exceed the current and
proposed rollover roof strength requirements, which, in my view, are
simply unacceptably lenient. (Even my POC death trap substantially
exceeds the proposed standards.)

I should put up a size comparison drawing on my site. The preproduction
prototype will have about the same dimensions as a Corvette: it's more
than 3 feet longer that a Smart Car, about a foot longer than a Mini.
So it has adequate crush distances front and rear - but also, unlike any
other car, at the sides.

Re 70 mph crashes: even 35 mph frontal crash tests put occupants near
the limits of survivability in both large and small cars. In side
impacts (at 31 mph), G forces at the hip can be 100 or more. Although a
Smart Car (and many other cars) can appear (in web videos) to survive a
70 mph barrier crash with the safety cage still more or less intact, no
occupant can survive such a crash, and none of the car's systems are
designed for such impacts. (Truth be told, cars are designed to the
crash tests, just as they are designed to the EPA tests. There are some
small exceptions, with Volvo, for example, having gone beyond the
requirements, especially in the early days, but in cases where the
standards are lax, as in rollover protection, the manufacturers are lax
too.)

You're right about peak hp requirements vs steady state requirements.
Plug-in hybrids have an advantage over non-plug-in series hybrids (with
smaller battery packs) in being able to sustain peak hp longer. The
Volt is fairly close to an optimum, erring, perhaps, on the side of the
engine being a little larger than really necessary. (The Volt's 40 mile
range can take it over one heck of a big mountain.)

GM has taken the seemingly odd stance with the Volt that it is truly an
electric vehicle that just happens to carry around a generator. That
leads people to think that once the batteries are dead you have to wait
around to have the generator charge them. The reason GM has taken this
stance is for CAFE and mileage reporting reasons - the Volt looks far
more efficient than the Prius, if it is measured as an EV, because of a
6.67:1 advantage given to alternative fuel vehicles in the CAFE rules.
The volt is obviously really a series PHEV, and has been used as the
most-cited reference for that term for a couple years... it will be
interesting to see if GM can have its cake and eat it too. The actual
efficiency of the Volt, driving from New York to Chicago, will be lower
than Prius efficiency. Driven locally, it depends upon where the power
comes from. A fluidized bed coal-fired plant is 33% efficient, so in
places where most of the power is from coal, today's Prius is perhaps a
tick or two more efficient (and creates less CO2) than the Volt would,
running in its electric mode. Where most of the power is created from
hydro, etc. the Volt would, of course, be far ahead.

Although I am no big fan of GM, I'd hate to see their Volt trounced in
the marketplace by a production plug-in Prius. In a leap of faith, I
recently owned a Saturn... and it had major safety-related failures -
such as the power steering failing repeatedly. Many times it would fail
to start for causes that are well-documented on the web by hundreds of
people with the same problem. The car was truly a POS. GM drove me back
to Honda. That is not, in any way shape or form, the fault of the
people on the GM production lines, has little to do with union
contracts, and has everything to do with arrogant, short-sighted upper
management, throwing a once great company down the tubes.

Sorry for the rant, Ken

>>> Hi Ken, looks like a cool car/scooter!
>Agree with your analysis mostly. As I've said many times, the way >to
make EV's affordable and mass-market is to use small batteries, >as they
are the most expensive part of EV. If we can have >ubiquitous
fast-charge stations, it would work today for most >cities. For
long-distance, you must remember that 10-15hp works on >flat ground, try
going over the grapevine with a 50cc engine.
>I'd like to see some evidence of the crash worthiness at 70mph of >that
little car.
>Cheers, Jack




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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:34:02 -0700
From: "Kelly Hales" <khales@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT Simpson VOM question
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP32D40C13F74BA0B993F692DC2F0@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response

THANK YOU ROLAND
Don't know why I didn't loon there. Have it bookmarked. They truely have
way too much to look at, but had the exact part.
Kelly

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <ev_7@...>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT Simpson VOM question


> Hello Kelly,
>
> Go to: http://www.surplussales.com/
>
> Then click Product Index
> and click Wire wound resistors
>
> When you get there, you are going to be like a kid in a candy store.
>
> Roland
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Kelly Hales<khales@...> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I hope you don't mind this question as it's a bit of topic. I figured
>> some of you guru's might be some help here. My fater in law bought me a
>> Simpson 260-6P meter at a thrift store. It needs a little repair. We
>> found one blown resistor inside. A search of the internet found a site
>> (simson260.com) that has manuals and schematics and such. The resistor in
>> question is a 22.5 ohm and the parts list says its wire wound. A trip to
>> Elliot Electronics here in Tucson wasn't much help on the wire wound
>> spec. But I did pick up some 22 ohm 1 watt and 2 watt resistors, in the
>> standard variety. My question is, will the not being wire wound matter
>> much and will the .5 ohm make much of a difference. I can't seem to find
>> a source online for Simpson parts, just places to send them to for
>> repair. Since I'm unemployed I'd like to fix it myself if I can find the
>> part or use these. Any ideas?
>> Thanks
>> Kelly
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:36:59 -0700
From: "Kelly Hales" <khales@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT Simpson VOM question
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP455D22DFC9B971B1BCE70BDC2F0@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Indeed it is R14 and 22.5 ohms. I ordered a couple 1% 3watt 22.5 wirewounds
off the site Roland posted. Thanks for the eyes on look Evan.
Kelly

----- Original Message -----
From: "evan foss" <evanfoss@...>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT Simpson VOM question


I don't see the 22 Ohm resistor on the schematic. R14 is 22.5 Ohms if
I am reading that last smudged out digit correctly. If that is it then
you are ok although you really should use 1% parts in a meter. R14 is
for the 10mA setting on the meter.

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Kelly Hales<khales@...> wrote:
> All the other resistors inside are marked 1%. I'd like to find the right
> one. Sorry it should have been www.Simpson260.com
> Thanks
> Kelly
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "evan foss" <evanfoss@...>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 10:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT Simpson VOM question
>
>
> It is hard to tell what effect that half ohm change will have with out
> the schematic. Typically meters are made with better than 5% parts
> though. If the old one wasn't I guess you could get away with it. For
> some reason that simson260.com wouldn't load for me.
>
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Kelly Hales<khales@...> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I hope you don't mind this question as it's a bit of topic. I figured
>> some
>> of you guru's might be some help here. My fater in law bought me a
>> Simpson
>> 260-6P meter at a thrift store. It needs a little repair. We found one
>> blown resistor inside. A search of the internet found a site
>> (simson260.com) that has manuals and schematics and such. The resistor in
>> question is a 22.5 ohm and the parts list says its wire wound. A trip to
>> Elliot Electronics here in Tucson wasn't much help on the wire wound
>> spec.
>> But I did pick up some 22 ohm 1 watt and 2 watt resistors, in the
>> standard
>> variety. My question is, will the not being wire wound matter much and
>> will the .5 ohm make much of a difference. I can't seem to find a source
>> online for Simpson parts, just places to send them to for repair. Since
>> I'm unemployed I'd like to fix it myself if I can find the part or use
>> these. Any ideas?
>> Thanks
>> Kelly
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
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>> _______________________________________________
>> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
>> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.coe.neu.edu/~efoss/
> http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
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> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>



--
http://www.coe.neu.edu/~efoss/
http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/

_______________________________________________
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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 15:55:24 -0400
From: evan foss <evanfoss@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT Simpson VOM question
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Message-ID:
<4a55afb80907021255p2d8c7025if1419b4eca6d6c06@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Kelly Hales<khales@...> wrote:
> Indeed it is R14 and 22.5 ohms. ?I ordered a couple 1% 3watt 22.5 wirewounds

I am known in my family as the miss reader. As a result I always
double check these things. That way I have two wrong numbers to use
instead of just one. :)

> off the site Roland posted. ?Thanks for the eyes on look Evan.

I am always happy to help a fellow unemployed person.

> Kelly

Evan

--
http://www.coe.neu.edu/~efoss/
http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:53:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ricky Suiter <ricksuiter@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2009, comeback for low rolling resistance tires ?
To: EV List <ev@...>
Message-ID: <728764.75644.qm@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


What is the bolt pattern and offset? The 14's I got are 4X100mm and 38mm offset,
which is very common. I'm guessing not that many people are looking for wheels
for a Geo Metro so it might be worth giving them a call on the phone.

Ohh, and Discount Tire will price match Tire Rack.

Rick

---------------------------
>Doesn't look like Kosei fits the Geo Metro.
>
>Tirerack had two 14" wheels available. They weigh 15 lbs...I was hoping to
>get something lighter for the same price...like you did...







------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 22:34:22 +0000
From: stub@...
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event"
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Message-ID:

<1185986045-1246573994-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-718346460-@bxe11\
86.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Content-Type: text/plain

Search tools.
The pliers are usable but flex a little, the needle nose version is useless. I
haven't tried the ratchet but I'd guess it to be strong enough for battery
terminals.

Stub
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Willmon <electrabishi@...>

Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:10:39
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'<ev@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event"


One thing I am wanting to do for my Junior racer is get some of those plastic
(composite) tools, like the composite ratchet and open
end wrenches. Has anyone ever played with any of those? Most of the stuff the
Junior has to use does not take that much torque so
the plastic tools should be fine. They are plastic handles with the metal
inserts for the ends. I saw some of the plastic ratchets
a while back but don't remember where to get them. Does any one know?

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ev-bounces@... [mailto:ev-bounces@...] On Behalf
Of gary
> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:53 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Personal "Plasma Event"
>
>
> thanks for the safety reminder Bill, we can't repeat this too often.
> I've added a couple comments ...
> >
> > 1) _Always_ wear those blue nitrile mechanic's gloves when working on
> > the battery pack or the high-current wiring of your EV.
> >
> >
> - or even better - lineman's gloves. much thicker and rated for the big
> HV ($40 grainger). optional leather covers ($40).
> > 4) Take a few extra moments to tape up the metal surfaces of the
> > tool. Then cover surrounding exposed parts with a heavy cloth, rubber
> > matt, blue painter's tape, insulating board, etc.
> >
> - careful! a quick wrap of electrical tape might not insulate HV.
> Better than nothing but maybe use thicker pipe insulation, rubber sheet,
> etc.
>
> Gary Krysztopik
> www.ZWheelz.com
> www.aceaa.org
> San Antonio, TX
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:48:50 -0700
From: JS <za145@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT Simpson VOM question
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Message-ID: <4A4D3952.1000605@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Kelly Hales wrote:
My father in law bought me a Simpson 260-6P meter at a thrift store.
It needs a little repair.

We found one blown resistor inside.

A search of the internet found a site (simson260.com) that has manuals
and schematics and such.

The resistor in question is a 22.5 ohm and the parts list says its wire
wound.

I have the manual for the model 260 series III, which lists it as R18.
An examination of the schematic shows it as part of a voltage divider
for the current scales, and may affect all of them.

The part number from simpson is 0-008133

John in Sylmar, CA



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 16:23:47 -0800
From: m gol <gol.m86@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2009, comeback for low rolling resistance tires ?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Message-ID:
<1f1ce8720907021723g7b82fb34je3a6ab2e4aaa9892@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

The tirerack does have two rims for the Geo:
Offset: +38mm or 44mm
Backspacing: 5.00" or 5.04"
Bolt Pattern: 4-114

I guess they are OK, but they are 15 pounds, which gets me jealous that you
got 10 pound ones...

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Ricky Suiter <ricksuiter@...> wrote:

>
> What is the bolt pattern and offset? The 14's I got are 4X100mm and 38mm
> offset, which is very common. I'm guessing not that many people are looking
> for wheels for a Geo Metro so it might be worth giving them a call on the
> phone.
>
> Ohh, and Discount Tire will price match Tire Rack.
>
> Rick
>
> ---------------------------
> >Doesn't look like Kosei fits the Geo Metro.
> >
> >Tirerack had two 14" wheels available. They weigh 15 lbs...I was hoping to
> >get something lighter for the same price...like you did...
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 17:33:57 -0700
From: Toby B <racerdnf@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Smurf gloves (was: Personal "Plasma Event")
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Message-ID:
<e2ead1ec0907021733r2a8e3e00u277a502731a8c0c9@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

... and of course, they keep your hands clean and free of carcinogenic
substances...
which is why I wear them working on the stinkier cars, too...

Toby

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Bill Dube <billdube@...> wrote:

> Let us not allow "perfect" to interfere with "good enough". What we
> need to keep firmly in mind is that most folks wear _nothing_ on
> their hands when working with live packs and EV traction wiring.
>
> The blue nitrile mechanic's gloves (Smurf gloves) are 100 times
> better than bare hands. They are inexpensive and are not
> uncomfortable to wear. They don't interfere with your dexterity. They
> are available in every hardware store. You can get them at Walmart.
>
> You can think up more "perfect" protection, but it is expensive,
> cumbersome, and generally so inconvenient that folks will "skip it"
> unless forced to comply. The safest solution is to never get out of
> bed and never do anything. All safety equipment is a compromise. (See
> "bear-proof suit".)
>
> Like condoms, the Smurf gloves do not offer perfect protection. They
> are much, much, much better than nothing. They _help_ protect from
> the plasma flash. They cover your skin and will greatly reduce the
> amount of metal vapor deposition on your skin. They will prevent 99%
> of the shocks you would get with bare hands. (This alone will prevent
> 99% of the injuries because you jump or jerk and injure yourself.)
> You will be much better off wearing the Smurf gloves than not. If you
> have ever touched a hot exhaust manifold (or a drop light bulb) with
> the back of your hand when wearing Smurf gloves, you fully appreciate
> the additional (but limited) burn protection you get.
>
> Like condoms, it would be much safer if you did not touch anything,
> ever. They are an imperfect, but easy and practical solution that
> offers a _lot_ of protection for a small effort and low cost.
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
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>
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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 19:37:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: AMPhibian <amp_phibian@...>
Subject: [EVDL] Help for a Spokane Washington area EV'er
To: ev@...
Message-ID: <24316763.post@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


I've been trying to help out a fellow EV'er in Spokane. He purchased a
Porsche conversion from a shop in Florida and it's not exactly performing as
expected. It has a Warp11 and a 144 volt pack of ChinaHipower 100ah cells
wired into 200ah pairs with a Curtis 500 amp controller. It was supposed to
have a 1000amp Logisystems, but when they were having problems the Curtis
was substituted. The owner had someone lined up to sell him and install a
Z2K but that individual backed out. At this point the owner is willing to
try a newer and hopefully improved Logisystems 1000amp but lacks the ability
to install it. Anyone nearby willing and able to help him out? I believe
he would be willing to compensate for the work. Here's a link to his
discussion at DIYEV
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/newbie-needs-better-controll\
er-32560.html
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/newbie-needs-better-controll\
er-32560.html

John
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Nabble.com.



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:24:08 +1000
From: "Christie Cooksey" <christie@...>
Subject: [EVDL] Australian EV Insurance
To: "EV List" <ev@...>
Message-ID: <B4F1940CA5D74BD5AD8076FB5044FF82@CHRISTIE>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

I have a favour to ask of Australian EV owners...

Who do you insure your vehicles with and what is included in your policy?

I belong to the AEVA and would like to compile a list of things that EV
owners would like to see in their policies and how they would like the value
of their vehicles to be determined. Then I'd like to canvass the various
insurers to see what they are willing to offer.

If we can get them to see that EVs are valued by enthusiasts just as much as
HotRods and Classics maybe we can get our vehicles insured for their real
value.

Cheers
Christie Cooksey
www.evalbum.com/1805



------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 00:01:49 -0400
From: "Al" <bigg_al@...>
Subject: [EVDL] How many miles on lithium?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Message-ID: <007701c9fb92$fe247950$4001a8c0@ALANAMD64>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original

I am looking real hard at lithium for my next pack.
The big question is will they live up to their specs of 1000 to 3000 cycles?
The specs say standard charge/discharge current of .3C, only 33 amps for a
100ah cell. Also, just a 10% change in DOD from 80 to 70 yields 1000 more
cycles! May be too risky at this point to drop $10K to $15K on a pack.


Any of the early adopters, what is the most miles you have put on a pack of
the large format lithuim cells so far?

Al



------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 22:14:12 -0700
From: Thos True <evparts@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Smurf gloves (was: Personal "Plasma Event")
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Message-ID:
<138c000907022214q65161d0eg58eaa080d5cf774e@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello All,
While I agree that the blue nitrile gloves are a solution, my experience
tells me that they are extremely prone to tearing with the slightest nick.
This voids your effort for protection. What I wear for the wiring process is
a thin rubber coated cotton glove made by Atlas. I am not talking about the
thick blue ones, rather the thin, grey ones. They seem a bit clunky at
first, but one can easily manipulate nuts, bolts and washers while wearing
them. They also have a slightly sticky quality to them that helps to inhibit
the ocaisional dropping of such parts.
Just

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Bill Dube <billdube@...> wrote:

> Let us not allow "perfect" to interfere with "good enough". What we
> need to keep firmly in mind is that most folks wear _nothing_ on
> their hands when working with live packs and EV traction wiring.
>
> The blue nitrile mechanic's gloves (Smurf gloves) are 100 times
> better than bare hands. They are inexpensive and are not
> uncomfortable to wear. They don't interfere with your dexterity. They
> are available in every hardware store. You can get them at Walmart.
>
> You can think up more "perfect" protection, but it is expensive,
> cumbersome, and generally so inconvenient that folks will "skip it"
> unless forced to comply. The safest solution is to never get out of
> bed and never do anything. All safety equipment is a compromise. (See
> "bear-proof suit".)
>
> Like condoms, the Smurf gloves do not offer perfect protection. They
> are much, much, much better than nothing. They _help_ protect from
> the plasma flash. They cover your skin and will greatly reduce the
> amount of metal vapor deposition on your skin. They will prevent 99%
> of the shocks you would get with bare hands. (This alone will prevent
> 99% of the injuries because you jump or jerk and injure yourself.)
> You will be much better off wearing the Smurf gloves than not. If you
> have ever touched a hot exhaust manifold (or a drop light bulb) with
> the back of your hand when wearing Smurf gloves, you fully appreciate
> the additional (but limited) burn protection you get.
>
> Like condoms, it would be much safer if you did not touch anything,
> ever. They are an imperfect, but easy and practical solution that
> offers a _lot_ of protection for a small effort and low cost.
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 22:25:01 -0700
From: Thos True <evparts@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Smurf gloves (was: Personal "Plasma Event")
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Message-ID:
<138c000907022225r6e0d20dbua010a71fe108d59b@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

The final sentence was to read " Just my $.02 worth" -Thos

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Thos True <evparts@...> wrote:

> Hello All,
> While I agree that the blue nitrile gloves are a solution, my experience
> tells me that they are extremely prone to tearing with the slightest nick.
> This voids your effort for protection. What I wear for the wiring process is
> a thin rubber coated cotton glove made by Atlas. I am not talking about the
> thick blue ones, rather the thin, grey ones. They seem a bit clunky at
> first, but one can easily manipulate nuts, bolts and washers while wearing
> them. They also have a slightly sticky quality to them that helps to inhibit
> the ocaisional dropping of such parts.
> Just
>
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Bill Dube <billdube@...> wrote:
>
>> Let us not allow "perfect" to interfere with "good enough". What we
>> need to keep firmly in mind is that most folks wear _nothing_ on
>> their hands when working with live packs and EV traction wiring.
>>
>> The blue nitrile mechanic's gloves (Smurf gloves) are 100 times
>> better than bare hands. They are inexpensive and are not
>> uncomfortable to wear. They don't interfere with your dexterity. They
>> are available in every hardware store. You can get them at Walmart.
>>
>> You can think up more "perfect" protection, but it is expensive,
>> cumbersome, and generally so inconvenient that folks will "skip it"
>> unless forced to comply. The safest solution is to never get out of
>> bed and never do anything. All safety equipment is a compromise. (See
>> "bear-proof suit".)
>>
>> Like condoms, the Smurf gloves do not offer perfect protection. They
>> are much, much, much better than nothing. They _help_ protect from
>> the plasma flash. They cover your skin and will greatly reduce the
>> amount of metal vapor deposition on your skin. They will prevent 99%
>> of the shocks you would get with bare hands. (This alone will prevent
>> 99% of the injuries because you jump or jerk and injure yourself.)
>> You will be much better off wearing the Smurf gloves than not. If you
>> have ever touched a hot exhaust manifold (or a drop light bulb) with
>> the back of your hand when wearing Smurf gloves, you fully appreciate
>> the additional (but limited) burn protection you get.
>>
>> Like condoms, it would be much safer if you did not touch anything,
>> ever. They are an imperfect, but easy and practical solution that
>> offers a _lot_ of protection for a small effort and low cost.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
>> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>
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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 22:33:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nathan Stowe <n.stowe@...>
Subject: [EVDL] Looking for EV Grins.
To: ev@...
Message-ID: <24317848.post@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


Hi All,

I am looking to collect some pictures of folks with their EV Grins on. I
would like to post these on a web page that I am creating. Can you email a
picture of yourself grinning your head off in your EV? ( Maybe a link to
your car too, at evalbum if possible.)

If you can't access my email from the list, you can also send it to dummy269
at comcast dot net

Thanks and I am looking forward to seeing many smiling faces.

Nathan.

--
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http://www.nabble.com/Looking-for-EV-Grins.-tp24317848p24317848.html
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Nabble.com.



------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 06:08:53 +0000
From: damon henry <damonhenry@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Help for a Spokane Washington area EV'er
To: EV List <ev@...>
Message-ID: <SNT104-W23B7E6C4F7449E8435CD4DCE2C0@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


Well, I am not the best choice as I am in Vancouver Washington which is about a
6 hour drive from Spokane. However, my son has to make an appearance in Spokane
on July 17 - 18 to pick up a scholarship he won. We have been debating whether
just he and his mom will go in the Insight, or if we are going to load the whole
family of 6 up in the SUV, so I am a possibility. As far as the actual job it
should be easy enough unless the cables are cut to an exact length that does not
quite fit, but the layout of both controllers should be very similar, so that
probably will not be an issue.

damon

> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 19:37:35 -0700
> From: amp_phibian@...
> To: ev@...
> Subject: [EVDL] Help for a Spokane Washington area EV'er
>
>
> I've been trying to help out a fellow EV'er in Spokane. He purchased a
> Porsche conversion from a shop in Florida and it's not exactly performing as
> expected. It has a Warp11 and a 144 volt pack of ChinaHipower 100ah cells
> wired into 200ah pairs with a Curtis 500 amp controller. It was supposed to
> have a 1000amp Logisystems, but when they were having problems the Curtis
> was substituted. The owner had someone lined up to sell him and install a
> Z2K but that individual backed out. At this point the owner is willing to
> try a newer and hopefully improved Logisystems 1000amp but lacks the ability
> to install it. Anyone nearby willing and able to help him out? I believe
> he would be willing to compensate for the work. Here's a link to his
> discussion at DIYEV
>
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/newbie-needs-better-controll\
er-32560.html
>
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/newbie-needs-better-controll\
er-32560.html
>
> John
> --
> View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Help-for-a-Spokane-Washington-area-EV%27er-tp24316763p2431\
6763.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:35:04 -0700
From: "Will Beckett" <will@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Laguna Seca
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@...>
Message-ID: <00c401c9fba8$67bd8180$37388480$@ws>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Speed Ventures, www.refuelraces.com

- Will

Electric Auto Association
Membership
323 Los Altos Drive
Aptos, CA 95003

(831) 688-8669

http://eaaev.org/eaamembership.html


-----Original Message-----
From: ev-bounces@... [mailto:ev-bounces@...] On Behalf
Of Jeff Mccabe
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:45 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Laguna Seca


Hey Bob,
What asociation or group is running it. Would love to be their with my 928
Porsche.
Jeff McCabe

--- On Wed, 7/1/09, Will Beckett <will@...> wrote:

> From: Will Beckett <will@...>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Laguna Seca
> To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@...>
> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 11:37 PM Thanks for sending the message
> Bob.? I will be there with the t-Zero.
>
> - Will Beckett
> Aptos, CA? 95003
> (831) 688-8669
> will@...
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ev-bounces@...
> [mailto:ev-bounces@...]
> On Behalf
> Of Bob Martin
> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 9:01 PM
> To: ev@...
> Subject: [EVDL] Laguna Seca
>
> Is anybody planning to attend the EV event at Laguna Seca on July
> 18th. As I understand, EV's have been invited to run Solo 1 (one
> vehicle at a time for lap time). Bikes, GoKarts, Cars, Electrathon
> Vehicles...See Ya'll there! Bob
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> hment.html
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines:
> http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/ Usage guidelines:
> http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>

_______________________________________________
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http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev




------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 05:53:16 -0500
From: Willie McKemie <mckemie@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How many miles on lithium?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Message-ID: <20090703105316.GB12158@c25>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Fri, Jul 03, 2009 at 12:01:49AM -0400, Al wrote:

> Any of the early adopters, what is the most miles you have put on a pack of
> the large format lithuim cells so far?

I'm at about 5400 miles in 6 months.
http://www.evalbum.com/2314

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 565 days 23 hours 51 minutes



------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 08:29:26 -0400
From: "Bob Rice" <bobrice@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How many miles on lithium?How FAR on a
charge?????????????
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Cc: Jack a Smith <starbiz1@...>
Message-ID: <6C355AEDC8DD408C99513FED2F87CA62@adminwlzisp2uc>
Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type="original"

Hi EVerybody;

OK how MANY miles on a charge you guyz getting? Any 100 mile runs? Or
150? Like the PRODUCTION EV's are getting? THIS is what the REST of us
Sheeple wanna hear? Can I drive off to, say, Boston, and get HOME again,
without any Lithium Teakettles or dismaying voltage sag? Can I/we get away
with an occasional LONG trip, IF yur nice to yur Badd-eries the rest of the
time?

Or if not? Why not? Am I gunna drop 10-15 K for a car load of moody
batteri? Not to rain on anybodies parade, but ARE we making any progress?
Come on! Make my day! Tell me how great yur Lithiums are? Til SOMEBODY steps
up to the Governmental plate and busts the MNH patents and we enjoy
productrion (EV-1 and Rav-4, by Toyota,) performance in our crappy
conversions?

Oh yeah? Happy 4th!!!!!!!!Hang out yur flag and Smile!

Seeya

Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al" <bigg_al@...>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 12:01 AM
Subject: [EVDL] How many miles on lithium?


>I am looking real hard at lithium for my next pack.
> The big question is will they live up to their specs of 1000 to 3000
> cycles?
> The specs say standard charge/discharge current of .3C, only 33 amps for a
> 100ah cell. Also, just a 10% change in DOD from 80 to 70 yields 1000 more
> cycles! May be too risky at this point to drop $10K to $15K on a pack.
>
>
> Any of the early adopters, what is the most miles you have put on a pack
> of
> the large format lithuim cells so far?
>
> Al
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


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------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 06:30:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: AMPhibian <amp_phibian@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Help for a Spokane Washington area EV'er
To: ev@...
Message-ID: <24323199.post@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8


>From the pictures I've seen of his car the controller is probably somewhat
buried and will take some "surgery" to get at. If there is a problem and
you can't complete the job and have to go home he could be stuck. The
impression I get is he would not be comfortable with that possibility. It
should be a simple job but you never know until you get into it, things have
a way of popping up at the worst times. Hopefully someone nearby will chime
in.
John

damon henry wrote:
>
>
> Well, I am not the best choice as I am in Vancouver Washington which is
> about a 6 hour drive from Spokane. However, my son has to make an
> appearance in Spokane on July 17 - 18 to pick up a scholarship he won. We
> have been debating whether just he and his mom will go in the Insight, or
> if we are going to load the whole family of 6 up in the SUV, so I am a
> possibility. As far as the actual job it should be easy enough unless the
> cables are cut to an exact length that does not quite fit, but the layout
> of both controllers should be very similar, so that probably will not be
> an issue.
>
> damon
>
>> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 19:37:35 -0700
>> From: amp_phibian@...
>> To: ev@...
>> Subject: [EVDL] Help for a Spokane Washington area EV'er
>>
>>
>> I've been trying to help out a fellow EV'er in Spokane. He purchased a
>> Porsche conversion from a shop in Florida and it's not exactly performing
>> as
>> expected. It has a Warp11 and a 144 volt pack of ChinaHipower 100ah
>> cells
>> wired into 200ah pairs with a Curtis 500 amp controller. It was supposed
>> to
>> have a 1000amp Logisystems, but when they were having problems the Curtis
>> was substituted. The owner had someone lined up to sell him and install
>> a
>> Z2K but that individual backed out. At this point the owner is willing
>> to
>> try a newer and hopefully improved Logisystems 1000amp but lacks the
>> ability
>> to install it. Anyone nearby willing and able to help him out? I
>> believe
>> he would be willing to compensate for the work. Here's a link to his
>> discussion at DIYEV
>>
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/newbie-needs-better-controll\
er-32560.html
>>
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/newbie-needs-better-controll\
er-32560.html
>>
>> John
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>>
http://www.nabble.com/Help-for-a-Spokane-Washington-area-EV%27er-tp24316763p2431\
6763.html
>> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
>> Nabble.com.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
>> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
>> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
>> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?.
>
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> -------------- next part --------------
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> URL:
>
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> General EVDL support: http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
> Subscription options: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>

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------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 08:55:35 -0500
From: Willie McKemie <mckemie@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How many miles on lithium?How FAR on a
charge?????????????
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Message-ID: <20090703135535.GC12158@c25>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Fri, Jul 03, 2009 at 08:29:26AM -0400, Bob Rice wrote:
> Hi EVerybody;
>
> OK how MANY miles on a charge you guyz getting? Any 100 mile runs? Or
> 150? Like the PRODUCTION EV's are getting? THIS is what the REST of us
> Sheeple wanna hear? Can I drive off to, say, Boston, and get HOME again,
> without any Lithium Teakettles or dismaying voltage sag? Can I/we get away
> with an occasional LONG trip, IF yur nice to yur Badd-eries the rest of the
> time?

Well, Bob, I've posted several times about my opinions and experience
with my TS LFP260s. I've stated that I've drawn 301ah out of them as a
test. That puts the maximum range at over 150 miles, though we rarely
put more than 100 miles on a charge. I chose large cells, 260ah, to
maximize life; they are rarely called on to give more than 1C
discharge and we meet our trip needs with well under 70% SOC. Voltage
sag is not noticeable; we start at 155-160v and I've never noticed less
than 140v.

At 5400 miles, I've put less than 100 cycles on the pack. Well, maybe
a few more than 100. Before I was confident of the range, we would
charge after every trip and our minimum trip is about 40 miles. Now,
we might do a 60 mile trip plus a 40 mile trip before charging. If we
have two 60 mile trips in a row, we will charge before the second.

The conversion has had what I suspect are normal teething issues:
1) the Curtis controller has been replaced with a Logisystems and my
power dropout and surging problems have disappeared.
2) the heater blew it's fuses on first use and it had to be re-wired
3) the air conditioner works well, but looses it's refrigerant. Also,
it eats belts.
4) I've had several cell balancers die, probably due to my
mis-handling.
5) It took me two weeks to get the cells in balance initially.
6) The Zivan came mis-configured for the pack

Since the initial balancing, using the car is simply a matter of
putting electricity in and then driving it out. The TBS meter gives me
an accurate measure of how much energy has gone in the pack, how much
has come out, and (therefore) how much is available at any and all
times.

The Thunder Sky cells have caused me ZERO problems. So far.

--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 566 days 2 hours 27 minutes



------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 07:40:28 -0700
From: Jeff Shanab <jshanab@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2009, comeback for low rolling resistance tires ?
To: ev@...
Message-ID: <4A4E185C.3090605@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>
> I wouldn't worry too much about rim weight. It might be easier ( and
> cheaper) to save weight elsewhere. The difference between stock steel rims
> and expensive aluminum rims is not generally very much. And, the "rolling
> inertia" effect of rims is fairly small ( despite common thinking on this).
> Phil Marino
> Rochester, NY

I am gonna disagree or clarify slightly. but maybe it is a left coast
thing.

The extra energy used to spin up the additional mass also reduces
braking capacity and chews up brakes faster.

The stock steel rims are often not as bad as people think especially for
the stock tire size or when compared to the oversize billet aluminum
rims that people go nuts for out here. Although they sell for high
dollar they are actually low cost in the world of rims, cast with all
concentration on looks not strength or weight.

People out here go stupid. The shinier and bigger is better syndrome.
Ever seen a honda civic with 22" rims?

That said, luckily there is a good way to measure it. :-)

Here is how it really works out.
The rim + tire weight (bigger rim means more tire weight, even if low
profile) is totally unsprung weight.
As a vehicle comes to a bump, the wheel is launched up into the air.
This is reacted against by the spring which is constrained by the body
of the car. The spring pushes the tire back down to the road and the
shock slows this return to reduce the reaction so it doesn't overshoot.
We turn it into an over-dampened oscillation with a short period.

If you have a small light vehicle you only have so much weigh to
resist against the spring and the flying unsprung weight. To much
unsprung weight and the tire won't be held in contact with the road on a
bumpy surface for enough percent of the time. It becomes like a stone
skipping across a pond. I have witnessed this on these stupid people
putting huge shiny rims on those hondas, they hit a dip in the road at
an intersection and they are all over the road. And have experienced it
on my autocrossing.

At least in an EV we are usually increasing the weight, we therefore
can tolerate a higher weight rim. At least from the handling
perspective. A larger diameter usually gives a better ride, so
something like the Prius has to be very careful to keep the overall
unsprung weight down, but also at a know number to maintain a good ride.
The lighter the tighter the tolerance.

For rotational inertia, and how it effects acceleration, they say a lb
of rotating mass is equal to about 4 lbs of weight.
I can vouch for that. Repeated testing.

Often the choice to go away from a stock rim, is to get a different
tire size, the steel stamped rims are usually for a narrow tire, that is
where they are most economical. As a rim gets wider steels flexibility
starts to require thicker sections which increases weight. You quickly
pass a point where the rigidity of aluminum helps more than it's reduced
strength. It is also cheaper to cast deep than it is to stamp deep. As I
typed this I was trying to think of even one "sports car" that doesn't
have alloy rims, at least 80's on.

In my driveway sites an 88 mitsu PU It came with stamped steel rims but
became my autocross vehicle (long story) and it has a set of cyclone-2s
on it. These are the 70's era mags, very rigid and light.
The 95 grand am came stock with aluminum rims
The 87 300zx(EV) came stock with aluminum rims.

Get out the scale. If you are shopping rims and ask the guy how much a
rim weighs and he can't answer, shop somewhere else, this guy is
selling rims on look and they are probably 3x what they need and ride
and handling and braking will suffer!





------------------------------

Message: 24
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 07:48:54 -0700
From: gottdi@...
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How many miles on lithium?How FAR on a
charge?????????????
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@...>
Message-ID: <A4AC499F-3DCC-4FCC-A9E2-B395586218E6@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Flag's UP :)




On Jul 3, 2009, at 5:29 AM, Bob Rice wrote:

> Hi EVerybody;
>
> OK how MANY miles on a charge you guyz getting? Any 100 mile runs?
> Or
> 150? Like the PRODUCTION EV's are getting? THIS is what the REST of us
> Sheeple wanna hear? Can I drive off to, say, Boston, and get HOME
> again,
> without any Lithium Teakettles or dismaying voltage sag? Can I/we
> get away
> with an occasional LONG trip, IF yur nice to yur Badd-eries the rest
> of the
> time?
>
> Or if not? Why not? Am I gunna drop 10-15 K for a car load of moody
> batteri? Not to rain on anybodies parade, but ARE we making any
> progress?
> Come on! Make my day! Tell me how great yur Lithiums are? Til
> SOMEBODY steps
> up to the Governmental plate and busts the MNH patents and we enjoy
> productrion (EV-1 and Rav-4, by Toyota,) performance in our crappy
> conversions?
>
> Oh yeah? Happy 4th!!!!!!!!Hang out yur flag and Smile!
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Al" <bigg_al@...>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@...>
> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 12:01 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] How many miles on lithium?
>
>
>> I am looking real hard at lithium for my next pack.
>> The big question is will they live up to their specs of 1000 to 3000
>> cycles?
>> The specs say standard charge/discharge current of .3C, only 33
>> amps for a
>> 100ah cell. Also, just a 10% change in DOD from 80 to 70 yields
>> 1000 more
>> cycles! May be too risky at this point to drop $10K to $15K on a
>> pack.
>>
>>
>> Any of the early adopters, what is the most miles you have put on a
>> pack
>> of
>> the large format lithuim cells so far?
>>
>> Al
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
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> _______________________________________________
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> Usage guidelines: http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives: http://evdl.org/archive/
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>



------------------------------

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End of EV Digest, Vol 24, Issue 5
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