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Today's Topics:
1. Re: How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor? (Phil Marino)
2. Re: How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor? (Dave Hale)
3. HID Headlight Transformer Interference (Jeff Mccabe)
4. open source electric trike design (gary)
5. Prop size and speed, reduction units (Gene Fusch)
6. Fw: [BMBB] Obama Has Not Done Anything About NiMH Battery
Situation (Bob Rice)
7. FW: Prop size and speed, reduction units (Gene Fusch)
8. Re: How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor? (Rush)
9. Re: Fw: [BMBB] Obama Has Not Done Anything About NiMH Battery
Situation (Larry Gales)
10. Re: How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor? (Steve Kobb)
11. Re: How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor? (David Chapman)
12. Re: How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor? (Bob Sisson)
13. Re: How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor? (Bob Sisson)
14. Re: How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor?
(Christopher Zach)
15. Re: HID Headlight Transformer Interference (evan foss)
16. Re: HID Headlight Transformer Interference (Roger Stockton)
17. Re: HID Headlight Transformer Interference (Jeff McCabe)
18. Re: HID Headlight Transformer Interference (Jeff McCabe)
19. Re: Fw: [BMBB] Obama Has Not Done Anything About NiMH Battery
Situation (evan foss)
20. Re: Wifi router EV battery tester (Chuck Hursch)
21. How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor? (Seth Allen)
22. Re: Fw: [BMBB] Obama Has Not Done Anything About NiMH Battery
Situation (John Garbarini)
23. Re: Fw: [BMBB] Obama Has Not Done Anything About NiMHBattery
Situation (Bob Rice)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 15:11:10 -0400
From: Phil Marino <
phil42277@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <
ev@...>
Message-ID:
<
660221ca0907041211q7867e5d1tb1336a874cdce3cc@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Bill
It would seem to me that you don't need a controller ( unless it's an AC
motor) for the motor that powers your stock air conditioner compressor. I
would think you could just switch on the motor ( assuming it won't overspeed
with no load) and then engage the A/C compressor clutch with the existing
A/C controls. Maybe you could even turn on the motor with the same signal
that powers the compressor clutch.
Phil
On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Bill Ferguson <
bill@...> wrote:
> EV experts,
>
> Has anyone put air conditioning in their EV conversion? If so, how
> did you do it or how would you do it?
>
> It seems the easiest way would be to add a small electric motor to
> power the existing air conditioner compressor, but I'm having trouble
> finding one that would work. I need a high quality, professional
> looking/performing solution, because we plan to sell the car.
>
> Does anyone know where I could buy a small electric motor that will
> run off 300V DC? It could be either brushless or with brushes, one
> hp. RPM could be 2,000 to 8000 rpm. I don't know if anyone makes a
> motor like this.
>
> I'm with a small group that is making our first electric car. We have
> a 2001 Honda Civic, have removed the gas motor and will be putting in
> an AC motor, controller, lithium-ion batteries and other electronics.
>
> We need a DC motor to run the air conditioner. Our battery pack is 96
> cells at 3.2 V each, so our battery pack will be 308 V. We have to
> have high voltage, in order to provide enough power to the AC motor.
> We can't run it off 12V, because it would take too much current from
> our DC/DC converter.
>
> Does anyone know a company or a brand that sells a small, electric,
> off-the-shelf, DC motor, along with the controller, that is powered
> by 300V DC? I found one company, Anaheim Automation, but they don't
> have a controller/driver for 300VDC.
>
> I see one or 2 companies sell a complete AC compressor, such as Cool
> Blue, but it's AC, so their plan to buy both the compressor and and
> inverter makes it more expensive and more complicated.
>
> Any ideas on a good solution would be appreciated.
>
> Thank you,
> Bill Ferguson
> eeVee Motors
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 12:12:57 -0700
From: Dave Hale <
dave@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <
ev@...>
Message-ID:
<
6368e4f70907041212p678c35edsb90801c34873ce5f@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I haven't looked in to this one myself but happened to have this bookmarked:
http://lonestar914ev.blogspot.com/
At the bottom of that page he mentions buying an AC unit from here:
http://www.europeancoolerair.com/
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 12:39:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Mccabe <
jeff.mccabe@...>
Subject: [EVDL] HID Headlight Transformer Interference
To:
ev@...
Message-ID: <
369903.1654.qm@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello EvListers,
First off Happy 4th of July !
My problem today, actually for over a year, I just didn't know it, is this
dc-dc converter(transformer) for my HID headlights.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13947721@N03/3688081608/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13947721@N03/3688081342/
After nearly two years of driving my 928 Porsche conversion I finally put a
radio in it. Only to find I have a lot of radio electrical noise, but not from
the usual suspects,controller,brushed motor.
Here is what I have tried so far to minimize the interference.
Tried capacitors on the 12v input (220uf & 2200uf), lights wouldn't come on !
Diode to ground on the input side
ran the 12v source through a relay directly from my 12v battery
put the unit in a aluminum sealed box (trying to eliminate conductive inter.)
None of these made a difference.
I also wanted to know if the noise was inductive or conductive, so I powered
the transformer from a separate 12v battery (all interference went away, so its
Inductive, right ? )
Now I admit I'm an electronic hack, so please be gentle and not to technical
with your advise.
Thank you all in advance !
Jeff
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 13:50:45 -0500
From: gary <
gkrysztopik@...>
Subject: [EVDL] open source electric trike design
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <
ev@...>
Message-ID: <
4A4FA485.1050000@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
I built an electric trike and I will be re-building it to fix some
things and document it for kit building. I?m starting an ?open source?
forum, email list and website. I?ll provide all details on parts, cost,
design and performance along with all of the pictures and drawings that
I have. I?d like to have other people join in to help document, design
and build. It will be based on the parts and vehicle that I already own
and have been driving on the road. I think this will give the project a
good start and increase the chances of getting a new prototype rolling
in short time.
The goal is to have a simple open air vehicle that can be assembled from
a kit in less than one week at home with basic tools and skills. The
body will have to come afterwards because getting a rolling chassis is
enough work. I?ll be updating regularly on line and I should make quick
progress so at the very least it should be entertaining.
The forum is at
http://zwos.proboards.com/index.cgi
The email list is a yahoo group called zwheelz at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ZWheelz/
The website for now is www.zwheelz.com <
http://www.zwheelz.com/> but I
will probably make another one just for the rebuild project.
I don?t have much loaded in there yet but I will do my best to keep
uploading data and explaining what works and what doesn?t. Please be
patient ? I?m new to forum management and moderating so things may move
slowly at first. Hope to see you there.
Gary Krysztopik
www.ZWheelz.com
www.aceaa.org
San Antonio, TX
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 19:56:47 +0000
From: Gene Fusch <
gfusch@...>
Subject: [EVDL] Prop size and speed, reduction units
To: <
ev@...>
Message-ID: <
COL119-W6250EACF8EEA742D628C41C32D0@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
I am new to this list and hope that you may give me some suggestions.
I am starting a new project to build in wood-epoxy a 42' Bruce Roberts Spray (18
ton displacement with a 14.5' beam) sail boat to cruise through retirement.
I plan to use a Chinese freestanding lug rig and an electrical auxiliary motor
that will recharge while under sail. As I look at various motor options I find
their pricing all over the board and limited data provided. A couple questions
that I have for anyone who has converted to an electric boat (particularly a
sail boat):
? My thinking is a large prop with a high pitch turning slow may be more
efficient while under power and for recharging while under sail. From your
experience, How large should the prop be for a 42' boat with 18 ton
displacement?
? What should the speed of the prop be?
? What experience have you had with reduction gears or reduction belt
assemblies?
? What are some good sources of reduction units (to add torque and reduce speed
from the motor to the prop)?
Thank you,
Gene
Hood Canal
_________________________________________________________________
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290
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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 15:56:55 -0400
From: "Bob Rice" <
bobrice@...>
Subject: [EVDL] Fw: [BMBB] Obama Has Not Done Anything About NiMH
Battery Situation
To: <
ev@...>
Message-ID: <A1AE71A0F133482BBEA32D24C388500F@adminwlzisp2uc>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hey? Me too> Howcome WE Sheeple haven't heard anything about
NMH's??????????Not to diss the guy, but where are his advisors, BECIDES Doug
Korthof??
Bob
40 YEARS and counting for THE badd-ery?
----- Original Message -----
From: Remy Chevalier
To: BMBB List
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:57 AM
Subject: [BMBB] Obama Has Not Done Anything About NiMH Battery Situation
The Obama Administration Has Not Done Anything About The NiMH Battery Situation
by Josh Landess
Rio Rico, AZ
Thursday | July 02, 2009
http://evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm?authorid=51
As far as I know, the Obama Administration has done nothing whatsoever about the
NiMH battery situation. For all of the energy and money they have put into
promoting clean renewable domestically-produced energy and energy efficiency,
when it came down to it, they have had nearly six months in office and have not
taken a shot at even mentioning or discussing the Oil-Company-Stultified
excellent tried-and-true energy storage technology.
I was reviewing the specs of the Lithium-powered vehicles that are apparently
coming to market over the next few months. In some cases coming "to market" is
a bit of a stretch, but we'll see a few hundred vehicles on the road, here or
there, basically in the hands of fleets... that sort of thing. ... Some of the
specs are not actually that impressive, and some are. Whereas some NiMH-powered
vehicles were traveling well more than 100 miles on a charge, at highway
speeds, in the 1990s, the Lithium-powered offerings from Subaru and Mitsubishi
from 2009 don't seem to be there, or seem to struggle to match those numbers.
To form a counter-point, we know that a good Lithium-Powered car from Tesla or
BMW or others would at least bring out the strengths that Lithium offers, such
as excellent range and low weight.
I'm a fan of Lithium vehicles, and I hope they'll work out. In the meantime,
they are going to market with a prime proven-reliable competitor
(NiMH-powered-vehicles) apparently not allowed to compete fully.
As far as I've been able to tell in my research so far, no mention has been made
by anyone in the Obama Administration (or by anyone in policy-making for that
matter) of the NiMH Battery situation. You can't fix what you can't discuss.
Perhaps they think they can just close their eyes and hope for the best and
everything will be ok? Maybe some think that Lithium vehicles will be produced
in the hundreds of millions without any economic issues relating to a lack of
competition or insufficient resources?
Cobasys has been financially dying on the vine in Michigan for a year or two or
more, with its workers' future in limbo, and yet no policy-maker wants to talk
about this? I thought policy-makers liked to talk about jobs? ECD and Chevron
have been collaborating quietly to keep non-US companies from doing much with
NiMH batteries suitable for highway-capable BEVs, and yet no policy-maker has
anything to say about this? I thought they wanted to say they cared about
energy policy and "energy independence".
One specific idea perhaps worth pursuing would be to work to try to discover a
White Knight to purchase financially troubled Cobasys. If this course were
pursued, at least two important things would have to be kept in mind. First, we
should not be naive: the joint venture owners of Cobasys might try to harm the
company's battery production rights and business (even more?) if it is being
pried away. Second, prying Cobasys from its owners would not by any means solve
all problems. Cobasys has North American exclusive production rights to
batteries of a certain type, I believe, but they are not the basic patent
holders. So, the global licensing situation would still need to be addressed.
A funny thing is that I hear some of the same arguments from both sides: Lithium
batteries are too resource constrained we are told. Then again, Rare Earth
Metal investing seems to be driven largely these days by the idea that we will
have to turn to NiMH traction batteries whose rare earth element ingredients are
also not the most abundant things around.
What if this suppression of NiMH battery technology had occured in smaller
batteries? What if the extraordinarily quick advances in laptops and cameras
and cell phones had been held up by some artificial oil company nonsense?
Would we have stood for it if we had been told that we had to wait for a laptop
until Lithium Ion was worked out because NiMH batteries weren't available or
weren't good enough?
I see there is a new book on Amazon.com which seeks to address itself to the
NiMH battery situation, and the EV situation. I haven't read it, so I can't
venture an opinion, but I am mentioning it for EV fans.
Two Cents per Mile: Will President Obama Make it Happen WITH THE STROKE OF A
PEN? (Paperback)
by Nevres Cefo
There also seems to be a web page to petition the Obama Administration to do
something about the NiMH battery situation.
dcmonitor.com
The web page in my view is a bit too focused on the idea that hydrogen is the
false-promise answer being held up to us. I think we're going forward with
Lithium Ion Batteries, and in the end they will work somewhat. Heck, if I were
an auto designer, I'd probably have to favor designing in Lithium batteries over
NiMh batteries.
Yet, aren't automakers concerned with product durability and reliability and
safety? Isn't NiMH technology in some ways more proven than LIthium technology
in these areas for use in cars?
A problem, as I see it, is that even assuming Lithium is in many ways superior
to NiMH technology, competition is still significantly constrained and this is
bad for all concerned and is likely further to delay the necessary
cost-effective implementation of much-more-efficient and cleaner transportation.
It's good to see Mr. Cefo out there trying to get the Obama adminsitration to
step in and really make things happen on NiMH batteries. I'm not holding my
breath for anyone (anywhere) in the Obama adminsitration to do anything. You
can't fix what you aren't willing to mention. To this day, no policy-maker of
prominence, in or outside the Administration, of whom I am aware, has so much
as publicly mentioned the NiMH battery situation.
Disclaimer: I have a modest indirect interest in the fortunes of companies that
make all manner of traction batteries, including lead-acid, NiMH and
Lithium-Ion.
Originally published: July 02, 2009
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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 19:58:23 +0000
From: Gene Fusch <
gfusch@...>
Subject: [EVDL] FW: Prop size and speed, reduction units
To: <
ev@...>
Message-ID: <
COL119-W38B1122EE89E8C2DA589BC32D0@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
I am new to this list and hope that you may give me some suggestions.
I am starting a new project to build in wood-epoxy a 42' Bruce Roberts Spray (18
ton displacement with a 14.5' beam) sail boat to cruise through retirement.
I plan to use a Chinese freestanding lug rig and an electrical auxiliary motor
that will recharge while under sail. As I look at various motor options I find
their pricing all over the board and limited data provided. A couple questions
that I have for anyone who has converted to an electric boat (particularly a
sail boat):
? My thinking is that a large prop with a high pitch turning slow may be more
efficient while under power and for recharging while under sail. From your
experience, How large should the prop be for a 42' boat with 18 ton
displacement?
? What should the speed of the prop be?
? What experience have you had with reduction gears or reduction belt
assemblies?
? What are some good sources of reduction units (to add torque and reduce speed
from the motor to the prop)?
Thank you,
Gene
Hood Canal
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you.
_________________________________________________________________
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290
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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 08:17:52 -0700
From: "Rush" <
Rush@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <
ev@...>
Message-ID: <05d601c9fcba$a3ac6270$6401a8c0@5thwheel>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
The USElectric news list is having a discussion about AC in their
cars/trucks, here is a link that someone put up
http://www.sanden.com/index.php?id=TSPM4GG46
I've also found a place in Austin, run by some EVer's
http://www.revoltcustomelectric.com/components-accessories.html
that use these compressors
http://www.masterflux.com/products/sierra/
I got a quote from them and for my 180v system it would cost about $1000 for
a setup, sort of pricey for me, but it is a complete system.
Rush
Tucson AZ
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 13:16:11 -0700
From: Larry Gales <
larry.gales@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fw: [BMBB] Obama Has Not Done Anything About NiMH
Battery Situation
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <
ev@...>
Message-ID:
<
dcd0efa70907041316t7cf6e80w1214b8a1beaab616@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Why are you not much more outraged that the administration has done
nothing about the sodium nickel chloride (ZEBRA) and sodium iron
chloride batteries than the NiMH? After all, at 120 and 110 wh/kg,
respectively, they equal or outshine Lithium batteries, and far surpass
NiMH (60-70 wh/kg), rival NiMH and Lithium in safety and long life,
greatly outclass all other batteries in all weather capabilities, and
radically lower cost ($120/KWH and < $100/KWH respectively, in mass
production), and the iron chloride battery has unlimited resources (salt
and iron), has no toxic or high cost materials, such as nickel and
cobalt like the NiMH, has been in production for 10 years, and powering
real production vehicles in Britain for several years?
-- Larry
On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Bob Rice <
bobrice@...> wrote:
> Hey? Me too> Howcome WE Sheeple haven't heard anything about
> NMH's??????????Not to diss the guy, but where are his advisors, BECIDES Doug
> Korthof??
>
> Bob
>
> 40 YEARS and counting for THE badd-ery?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Remy Chevalier
> To: BMBB List
> Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:57 AM
> Subject: [BMBB] Obama Has Not Done Anything About NiMH Battery Situation
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The Obama Administration Has Not Done Anything About The NiMH Battery
> Situation
> by Josh Landess
> Rio Rico, AZ
> Thursday | July 02, 2009
>
>
http://evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm?authorid=51
> As far as I know, the Obama Administration has done nothing whatsoever
> about the NiMH battery situation. For all of the energy and money they have
> put into promoting clean renewable domestically-produced energy and energy
> efficiency, when it came down to it, they have had nearly six months in
> office and have not taken a shot at even mentioning or discussing the
> Oil-Company-Stultified excellent tried-and-true energy storage technology.
>
> I was reviewing the specs of the Lithium-powered vehicles that are
> apparently coming to market over the next few months. In some cases coming
> "to market" is a bit of a stretch, but we'll see a few hundred vehicles on
> the road, here or there, basically in the hands of fleets... that sort of
> thing. ... Some of the specs are not actually that impressive, and some
> are. Whereas some NiMH-powered vehicles were traveling well more than 100
> miles on a charge, at highway speeds, in the 1990s, the Lithium-powered
> offerings from Subaru and Mitsubishi from 2009 don't seem to be there, or
> seem to struggle to match those numbers. To form a counter-point, we know
> that a good Lithium-Powered car from Tesla or BMW or others would at least
> bring out the strengths that Lithium offers, such as excellent range and low
> weight.
>
> I'm a fan of Lithium vehicles, and I hope they'll work out. In the
> meantime, they are going to market with a prime proven-reliable competitor
> (NiMH-powered-vehicles) apparently not allowed to compete fully.
>
> As far as I've been able to tell in my research so far, no mention has been
> made by anyone in the Obama Administration (or by anyone in policy-making
> for that matter) of the NiMH Battery situation. You can't fix what you
> can't discuss. Perhaps they think they can just close their eyes and hope
> for the best and everything will be ok? Maybe some think that Lithium
> vehicles will be produced in the hundreds of millions without any economic
> issues relating to a lack of competition or insufficient resources?
>
> Cobasys has been financially dying on the vine in Michigan for a year or
> two or more, with its workers' future in limbo, and yet no policy-maker
> wants to talk about this? I thought policy-makers liked to talk about jobs?
> ECD and Chevron have been collaborating quietly to keep non-US companies
> from doing much with NiMH batteries suitable for highway-capable BEVs, and
> yet no policy-maker has anything to say about this? I thought they wanted
> to say they cared about energy policy and "energy independence".
>
> One specific idea perhaps worth pursuing would be to work to try to
> discover a White Knight to purchase financially troubled Cobasys. If this
> course were pursued, at least two important things would have to be kept in
> mind. First, we should not be naive: the joint venture owners of Cobasys
> might try to harm the company's battery production rights and business (even
> more?) if it is being pried away. Second, prying Cobasys from its owners
> would not by any means solve all problems. Cobasys has North American
> exclusive production rights to batteries of a certain type, I believe, but
> they are not the basic patent holders. So, the global licensing situation
> would still need to be addressed.
>
> A funny thing is that I hear some of the same arguments from both sides:
> Lithium batteries are too resource constrained we are told. Then again,
> Rare Earth Metal investing seems to be driven largely these days by the idea
> that we will have to turn to NiMH traction batteries whose rare earth
> element ingredients are also not the most abundant things around.
>
> What if this suppression of NiMH battery technology had occured in smaller
> batteries? What if the extraordinarily quick advances in laptops and
> cameras and cell phones had been held up by some artificial oil company
> nonsense? Would we have stood for it if we had been told that we had to
> wait for a laptop until Lithium Ion was worked out because NiMH batteries
> weren't available or weren't good enough?
>
> I see there is a new book on Amazon.com which seeks to address itself to
> the NiMH battery situation, and the EV situation. I haven't read it, so I
> can't venture an opinion, but I am mentioning it for EV fans.
>
> Two Cents per Mile: Will President Obama Make it Happen WITH THE STROKE OF
> A PEN? (Paperback)
> by Nevres Cefo
>
> There also seems to be a web page to petition the Obama Administration to
> do something about the NiMH battery situation.
>
> dcmonitor.com
>
> The web page in my view is a bit too focused on the idea that hydrogen is
> the false-promise answer being held up to us. I think we're going forward
> with Lithium Ion Batteries, and in the end they will work somewhat. Heck,
> if I were an auto designer, I'd probably have to favor designing in Lithium
> batteries over NiMh batteries.
>
> Yet, aren't automakers concerned with product durability and reliability
> and safety? Isn't NiMH technology in some ways more proven than LIthium
> technology in these areas for use in cars?
>
> A problem, as I see it, is that even assuming Lithium is in many ways
> superior to NiMH technology, competition is still significantly constrained
> and this is bad for all concerned and is likely further to delay the
> necessary cost-effective implementation of much-more-efficient and cleaner
> transportation.
>
> It's good to see Mr. Cefo out there trying to get the Obama adminsitration
> to step in and really make things happen on NiMH batteries. I'm not holding
> my breath for anyone (anywhere) in the Obama adminsitration to do anything.
> You can't fix what you aren't willing to mention. To this day, no
> policy-maker of prominence, in or outside the Administration, of whom I am
> aware, has so much as publicly mentioned the NiMH battery situation.
>
> Disclaimer: I have a modest indirect interest in the fortunes of companies
> that make all manner of traction batteries, including lead-acid, NiMH and
> Lithium-Ion.
>
> Originally published: July 02, 2009
>
> __._,_.___
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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 14:07:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Kobb <
sk@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor?
To:
ev@...
Message-ID: <
24338031.post@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi, Bill --
I installed A/C in my 2002 Chevy S-10.
Got a 180vdc motor running off of my 156v pack. This 1 HP GE motor uses a
belt to drive a Denso compressor. (Yes, I realize the motor is
underpowered.)
Am I pleased with the result?
Mmm... sort of... but it's definitely sub-optimal.
When my finances recover, I'm going to replace the whole thing with a
MasterFlux.
Good luck with your project. A/C is definitely a challenge for the EV
converter.
Cheers from Houston,
Steve Kobb
http://www.myelectrictruck.com
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/How-to-do-air-conditioning--or-300VDC-motor--tp24332086p24\
338031.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 16:51:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Chapman <
iasimovian@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <
ev@...>
Message-ID: <
523404.58687.qm@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Steve,
How is this setup "sub-optimal"? What rpm are you driving the compressor? Which
Denso compressor are you using and what refrigerant? Regards, David Chapman.
--- On Sat, 7/4/09, Steve Kobb <
sk@...> wrote:
> From: Steve Kobb <
sk@...>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor?
> To:
ev@...
> Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 2:07 PM
>
> Hi, Bill --
>
> I installed A/C in my 2002 Chevy S-10.
>
> Got a 180vdc motor running off of my 156v pack. This 1 HP
> GE motor uses a
> belt to drive a Denso compressor. (Yes, I realize the motor
> is
> underpowered.)
>
> Am I pleased with the result?
>
> Mmm... sort of... but it's definitely sub-optimal.
>
> When my finances recover, I'm going to replace the whole
> thing with a
> MasterFlux.
>
> Good luck with your project. A/C is definitely a challenge
> for the EV
> converter.
>
>
> Cheers from Houston,
>
> Steve Kobb
>
http://www.myelectrictruck.com
>
> --
> View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/How-to-do-air-conditioning--or-300VDC-motor--tp24332086p24\
338031.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list
> archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support:
http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines:
http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives:
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> Subscription options:
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>
>
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 22:20:46 -0400
From: "Bob Sisson" <
Garage@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor?
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <
ev@...>
Message-ID: <007201c9fd17$34d74c90$9e85e5b0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Run this off your 12V pack...or your 144V tap... or where ever... they offer
different voltages...
http://www.evdrive.com/BMW_project/AirConditioning.html
Bob Sisson
1993 Geo Metro Convertible Project
Gaithersburg MD
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 22:21:50 -0400
From: "Bob Sisson" <
Garage@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor?
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <
ev@...>
Message-ID: <007301c9fd17$5b362500$11a26f00$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Here is the link to the 300V compressor...
http://www.masterflux.com/products/sierra/
Bob Sisson
1993 Geo Metro Convertible Project
Gaithersburg MD
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:38:21 -0400
From: Christopher Zach <
czach@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <
ev@...>
Message-ID: <
4A50202D.3080203@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Just a thought for those planning AC systems for their EV's.
In addition to a compressor and all that remember that you need a FAN
behind the radiator/condenser. Preferably a big one. Or two. And they
need to run whenever the compressor is running.
Otherwise the heat will not dump out and the AC will not work. Bigger
the condenser the better. Bigger the fan, the better.
Just something to keep in mind. On my Prizm the AC is pretty good, but
if I add another fan behind the radiator it becomes incredibly cold.
Chris
Bob Sisson wrote:
> Here is the link to the 300V compressor...
>
>
http://www.masterflux.com/products/sierra/
>
> Bob Sisson
> 1993 Geo Metro Convertible Project
> Gaithersburg MD
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support:
http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines:
http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
> Archives:
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> Subscription options:
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>
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 00:12:05 -0400
From: evan foss <
evanfoss@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] HID Headlight Transformer Interference
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <
ev@...>
Message-ID:
<
4a55afb80907042112n7e8d322ao75b977809214bac8@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Jeff Mccabe<
jeff.mccabe@...> wrote:
>
> ?Hello EvListers,
> ?First off Happy 4th of July !
> ?My problem today, actually for over a year, I just didn't know it, is this
dc-dc converter(transformer) for my HID headlights.
>
>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13947721@N03/3688081608/
>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13947721@N03/3688081342/
>
> ?After nearly two years of driving my 928 Porsche conversion I finally put a
radio in it. Only to find I have a lot of radio electrical noise, but not from
the usual suspects,controller,brushed motor.
> ?Here is what I have tried so far to minimize the interference.
> Tried capacitors on the 12v input (220uf & 2200uf), lights wouldn't come on !
Adding capacitors in parallel to the input side of the dc/dc should
have at worst done nothing, not stopped the lights from turning on.
Also I would have started with a smaller value. Larger caps are for
dealing with lower frequency fluctuations (more often sudden spikes in
power use). Small caps will pass RF.
> Diode to ground on the input side
This was not likely to do anything.
> ran the 12v source through a relay directly from my 12v battery
> put the unit in a aluminum sealed box (trying to eliminate conductive inter.)
> ?None of these made a difference.
So the noise isn't traveling threw the air but back up stream from the
HID DC/DC to the +12V source and then to everywhere else.
> ?I also wanted to know if the noise was inductive or conductive, so I powered
the transformer from a separate 12v battery (all interference went away, so its
Inductive, right ? )
You got good data from your experiments but not the right conclusion.
Your last experiment isolated the two things and stopped the problem,
so it is conductive. I think you might try an inductor in series with
the lamps to block the noise from propagating. How far (physically) is
the DC/DC from the Lamps? You want them and anything blocking the
noise to be close in proximity to minimize any RF prorogation (Not
that you seem to have evidence of any).
> ?Now I admit I'm an electronic hack, so please be gentle and not to technical
with your advise.
The capacitors were a good guess.
> Thank you all in advance !
> ? ? ? ? ? ? Jeff
Evan
--
http://www.coe.neu.edu/~efoss/
http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 21:14:23 -0700
From: Roger Stockton <
rstockton@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] HID Headlight Transformer Interference
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <
ev@...>
Message-ID:
<
706F54AA6AA33D48AD2CDA168A1E35CF28BB26119A@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jeff Mccabe wrote:
> My problem today, actually for over a year, I just didn't
> know it, is this dc-dc converter(transformer) for my HID headlights.
> I also wanted to know if the noise was inductive or
> conductive, so I powered the transformer from a separate 12v
> battery (all interference went away, so its Inductive, right ? )
The more usual terms are conducted and radiated. Conducted means the
interference is getting from the source to the destination via a conductive path
(the 12V power or ground connections). Radiated means the interference is
getting from the source through the air as RF energy (same as the signal from
the radio station gets to your radio receiver).
If powering the DC/DC from a separate source eliminated the interference, then
you have determined that the interference is conducted.
> Tried capacitors on the 12v input (220uf & 2200uf), lights
> wouldn't come on !
I can't think of any reason why capacitors between 12V and ground would possibly
interfere with the DC/DC starting. You did try the caps between 12V and ground,
not between 12V and the DC/DC, right?
You are on the right track with the capacitors. I would try much smaller
values, such as 0.1uF or 1uF,and connect it/them between 12V and ground as close
to the input to the DC/DC as you can.
The idea here is that capacitors look nearly like a short circuit to high
frequencies, so connecting one or more capacitors between 12V and ground
"shorts" out the high-frequeny noise that comes out of the DC/DC on the 12V or
ground lines.
Smaller value capacitors are more effective for higher frequencies. The 220uF
and 2200uF caps you tried are relatively large values and will be electrolytic
types, which may not be very effective if the noise from the DC/DC is fairly
high frequency.
I would start with a 0.1uF film or ceramic capacitor and see how it does. If
the noise isn't reduced enough, add a 1uF film in parallel with it. If it still
isn't reduced enough, add the 220uF or 2200uF in parallel with the other caps.
If you can't reduce the noise sufficiently with caps alone, try adding an
inductor in series with the 12V line, between the caps and the car. If the
noise still isn't reduced sufficiently, try moving the inductor to between the
caps and the DC/DC.
This article may explain a bit better or in greater detail:
<
http://www.popularmechanics.com/how_to_central/automotive/1272491.html?page=3>
You may be able to find an off-the-shelf noise filter that you can install
between the DC/DC and the 12V system. From your pictures, we can see that the
DC/DC draws 3.2A in normal operation and a peak of 20A, so you need a filter
capable of handling these sorts of currents.
This one, for instance is rated 15A/250W:
<
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/60-1055>
As long as it can tolerate the 20A peak (I'm assuming it is a turn-on surge),
this is an inexpensive option.
Here's some beefier (and more costly) options:
<
http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProducts.do?groupId=619&subgroupId=65>
> Diode to ground on the input side
I wouldn't expect this to help.
> ran the 12v source through a relay directly from my 12v
This has the potential of helping, but you would need to use a double-pole relay
so that you switch both 12V and ground to the DC/DC. Twist the 12V and ground
leads together between the battery and relay and between the relay and DC/DC,
and use the double-pole relay to connect the DC/DC directly to the 12V battery.
Cheers,
Roger.
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 23:19:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff McCabe <
jeff.mccabe@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] HID Headlight Transformer Interference
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <
ev@...>
Message-ID: <
28327.91999.qm@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Happy 4th Roger,
Sent from my iPod
On Jul 4, 2009, at 9:14 PM, Roger Stockton <
rstockton@...> wrote:
Jeff Mccabe wrote:
My problem today, actually for over a year, I just didn't
know it, is this dc-dc converter(transformer) for my HID headlights.
I also wanted to know if the noise was inductive or
conductive, so I powered the transformer from a separate 12v
battery (all interference went away, so its Inductive, right ? )
The more usual terms are conducted and radiated. Conducted means the
interference is getting from the source to the destination via a conductive path
(the 12V power or ground connections). Radiated means the interference is
getting from the source through the air as RF energy (same as the signal from
the radio station gets to your radio receiver).
If powering the DC/DC from a separate source eliminated the interference, then
you have determined that the interference is conducted.
Good, got that one right
Tried capacitors on the 12v input (220uf & 2200uf), lights
wouldn't come on !
I can't think of any reason why capacitors between 12V and ground would possibly
interfere with the DC/DC starting. You did try the caps between 12V and ground,
not between 12V and the DC/DC, right?
Oops , no , I tried them in series with the positive side .
You are on the right track with the capacitors. I would try much smaller
values, such as 0.1uF or 1uF,and connect it/them between 12V and ground as close
to the input to the DC/DC as you can.
Thanks, I'll try this one tomarrow.
The idea here is that capacitors look nearly like a short circuit to high
frequencies, so connecting one or more capacitors between 12V and ground
"shorts" out the high-frequeny noise that comes out of the DC/DC on the 12V or
ground lines.
Smaller value capacitors are more effective for higher frequencies. The 220uF
and 2200uF caps you tried are relatively large values and will be electrolytic
types, which may not be very effective if the noise from the DC/DC is fairly
high frequency.
I would start with a 0.1uF film or ceramic capacitor and see how it does. If
the noise isn't reduced enough, add a 1uF film in parallel with it. If it still
isn't reduced enough, add the 220uF or 2200uF in parallel with the other caps.
Sounds like a plan, thanks
If you can't reduce the noise sufficiently with caps alone, try adding an
inductor in series with the 12V line, between the caps and the car. If the
noise still isn't reduced sufficiently, try moving the inductor to between the
caps and the DC/DC.
This article may explain a bit better or in greater detail:
<
http://www.popularmechanics.com/how_to_central/automotive/1272491.html?page=3>
You may be able to find an off-the-shelf noise filter that you can install
between the DC/DC and the 12V system. From your pictures, we can see that the
DC/DC draws 3.2A in normal operation and a peak of 20A, so you need a filter
capable of handling these sorts of currents.
This one, for instance is rated 15A/250W:
<
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/60-1055>
As long as it can tolerate the 20A peak (I'm assuming it is a turn-on surge),
this is an inexpensive option.
Yes, the current quikly drops as the lights brighten.
Here's some beefier (and more costly) options:
<
http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProducts.do?groupId=619&subgroupId=65>
Diode to ground on the input side
I wouldn't expect this to help.
ran the 12v source through a relay directly from my 12v
This has the potential of helping, but you would need to use a double-pole relay
so that you switch both 12V and ground to the DC/DC. Twist the 12V and ground
leads together between the battery and relay and between the relay and DC/DC,
and use the double-pole relay to connect the DC/DC directly to the 12V battery.
I'll try this also, I have a double pole laying around someware.
Cheers,
Roger.
Thanks again Roger !
Jeff
_______________________________________________
General EVDL support:
http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines:
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Subscription options:
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------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 23:29:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff McCabe <
jeff.mccabe@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] HID Headlight Transformer Interference
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <
ev@...>
Message-ID: <
682922.95522.qm@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Evan,
Thanks , your advice agreed with Rogers.
I have several things to try tomarrow.
Happy 4th,
Jeff
Sent from my iPod
On Jul 4, 2009, at 9:12 PM, evan foss <
evanfoss@...> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Jeff Mccabe<
jeff.mccabe@...> wrote:
Hello EvListers,
First off Happy 4th of July !
My problem today, actually for over a year, I just didn't know it, is this
dc-dc converter(transformer) for my HID headlights.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13947721@N03/3688081608/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13947721@N03/3688081342/
After nearly two years of driving my 928 Porsche conversion I finally put a
radio in it. Only to find I have a lot of radio electrical noise, but not from
the usual suspects,controller,brushed motor.
Here is what I have tried so far to minimize the interference.
Tried capacitors on the 12v input (220uf & 2200uf), lights wouldn't come on !
Adding capacitors in parallel to the input side of the dc/dc should
have at worst done nothing, not stopped the lights from turning on.
Also I would have started with a smaller value. Larger caps are for
dealing with lower frequency fluctuations (more often sudden spikes in
power use). Small caps will pass RF.
Diode to ground on the input side
This was not likely to do anything.
ran the 12v source through a relay directly from my 12v battery
put the unit in a aluminum sealed box (trying to eliminate conductive inter.)
None of these made a difference.
So the noise isn't traveling threw the air but back up stream from the
HID DC/DC to the +12V source and then to everywhere else.
I also wanted to know if the noise was inductive or conductive, so I powered
the transformer from a separate 12v battery (all interference went away, so its
Inductive, right ? )
You got good data from your experiments but not the right conclusion.
Your last experiment isolated the two things and stopped the problem,
so it is conductive. I think you might try an inductor in series with
the lamps to block the noise from propagating. How far (physically) is
the DC/DC from the Lamps? You want them and anything blocking the
noise to be close in proximity to minimize any RF prorogation (Not
that you seem to have evidence of any).
Now I admit I'm an electronic hack, so please be gentle and not to technical
with your advise.
The capacitors were a good guess.
Thank you all in advance !
Jeff
Evan
--
http://www.coe.neu.edu/~efoss/
http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/
_______________________________________________
General EVDL support:
http://evdl.org/help/
Usage guidelines:
http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Archives:
http://evdl.org/archive/
Subscription options:
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 03:02:05 -0400
From: evan foss <
evanfoss@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fw: [BMBB] Obama Has Not Done Anything About NiMH
Battery Situation
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <
ev@...>
Message-ID:
<
4a55afb80907050002q6f3fd908q5d25534262575c82@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
That would be because we have seen good working NiMH EVs with +140Mile
ranges and good Lithium EVs with +200Mile ranges. What I have never
seen a Zebra battery powered EV that came close to ether. NiMH is
actually being kept out of sight by Chevron, no one is actually
suppressing Zebra. The only Zebra battery powered car I have seen to
date was more an NEV than an a highway capable EV. Plus for all the
talk about Zebra they loose a lot of their stored power in heat. As
for the toxicity of Cobalt any EV battery should and would be recycled
(just like lead acid) and there are a multiplicity of alternate alloys
for use in the Metal part of NiMH. I don't care for Mr. Rice's grammar
but I think he is on the money here.
On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Larry Gales<
larry.gales@...> wrote:
> Why are you not much more outraged that the administration has done
> nothing about the sodium nickel chloride (ZEBRA) and sodium iron
> chloride batteries than the NiMH? ?After all, at 120 and 110 wh/kg,
> respectively, they equal or outshine Lithium batteries, and far surpass
> NiMH (60-70 wh/kg), rival NiMH and Lithium in safety and long life,
> greatly outclass all other batteries in all weather capabilities, and
> radically lower cost ($120/KWH and < $100/KWH respectively, in mass
> production), and the iron chloride battery has unlimited resources (salt
> and iron), has no toxic or high cost materials, such as nickel and
> cobalt like the NiMH, has been in production for 10 years, and powering
> real production vehicles in Britain for several years?
>
> ?-- Larry
>
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Bob Rice <
bobrice@...> wrote:
>
>> ? Hey? Me too> Howcome WE Sheeple haven't heard anything about
>> NMH's??????????Not to diss the guy, but where are his advisors, BECIDES Doug
>> Korthof??
>>
>> ? ? Bob
>>
>> ? ?40 YEARS and counting for THE badd-ery?
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Remy Chevalier
>> To: BMBB List
>> Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:57 AM
>> Subject: [BMBB] Obama Has Not Done Anything About NiMH Battery Situation
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The Obama Administration Has Not Done Anything About The NiMH Battery
>> Situation
>> by Josh Landess
>> Rio Rico, AZ
>> Thursday | July 02, 2009
>>
>>
http://evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm?authorid=51
>> As far as I know, the Obama Administration has done nothing whatsoever
>> about the NiMH battery situation. ?For all of the energy and money they have
>> put into promoting clean renewable domestically-produced energy and energy
>> efficiency, when it came down to it, they have had nearly six months in
>> office and have not taken a shot at even mentioning or discussing the
>> Oil-Company-Stultified excellent tried-and-true energy storage technology.
>>
>> I was reviewing the specs of the Lithium-powered vehicles that are
>> apparently coming to market over the next few ?months. ?In some cases coming
>> "to market" is a bit of a stretch, but we'll see a few hundred vehicles on
>> the road, here ?or there, basically in the hands of fleets... that sort of
>> thing. ?... Some of the specs are not actually that impressive, and some
>> are. ?Whereas some NiMH-powered vehicles ?were traveling well more than 100
>> miles on a charge, at highway speeds, in the 1990s, the Lithium-powered
>> offerings ?from Subaru and Mitsubishi from 2009 don't seem to be there, or
>> seem to struggle to match those numbers. ?To form a counter-point, we know
>> that a good Lithium-Powered car from Tesla or BMW or others would at least
>> bring out the strengths that Lithium offers, such as excellent range and low
>> weight.
>>
>> I'm a fan of Lithium vehicles, and I hope they'll work out. ?In the
>> meantime, they are going to market with a prime proven-reliable competitor
>> (NiMH-powered-vehicles) apparently not allowed to compete fully.
>>
>> As far as I've been able to tell in my research so far, no mention has been
>> made by anyone in the Obama Administration (or by anyone in policy-making
>> for that matter) of the NiMH Battery situation. ?You can't fix what you
>> can't discuss. ?Perhaps they think they can just close their eyes and hope
>> for the best and everything will be ok? ?Maybe some think that Lithium
>> vehicles will be produced in the hundreds of millions without any economic
>> issues relating to a lack of competition or insufficient resources?
>>
>> Cobasys has been financially dying on the vine in Michigan for a year or
>> two or more, with its workers' future in limbo, and yet no policy-maker
>> wants to talk about this? ?I thought policy-makers liked to talk about jobs?
>> ?ECD and Chevron have been collaborating quietly to keep non-US companies
>> from doing much with NiMH batteries suitable for highway-capable BEVs, and
>> yet no policy-maker has anything to say about this? ?I thought they wanted
>> to say they cared about energy policy and ?"energy independence".
>>
>> One specific idea perhaps worth pursuing would be to work to try to
>> discover a White Knight to purchase financially troubled Cobasys. ?If this
>> course were pursued, at least two important things would have to be kept in
>> mind. ?First, we should not be naive: the joint venture owners of Cobasys
>> might try to harm the company's battery production rights and business (even
>> more?) if it is being pried away. ?Second, prying Cobasys from its owners
>> would not by any means solve all problems. ?Cobasys has North American
>> exclusive production rights to batteries of a certain type, I believe, but
>> they are not the basic patent holders. ?So, the global licensing situation
>> would still need to be addressed.
>>
>> A funny thing is that I hear some of the same arguments from both sides:
>> Lithium batteries are too resource constrained ?we are told. ?Then again,
>> Rare Earth Metal investing seems to be driven largely these days by the idea
>> that we will have to turn to NiMH traction batteries whose rare earth
>> element ingredients are also not the most abundant things around.
>>
>> What if this suppression of NiMH battery technology had occured in smaller
>> batteries? ?What if the extraordinarily quick advances in laptops and
>> cameras and cell phones had been held up by some artificial oil company
>> nonsense? ? Would we have stood for it if we had been told that we had to
>> wait for a laptop until Lithium Ion was worked out because NiMH batteries
>> weren't available or weren't good enough?
>>
>> I see there is a new book on Amazon.com which seeks to address itself to
>> the NiMH battery situation, and the EV situation. ?I haven't read it, so I
>> can't venture an opinion, but I am mentioning it for EV fans.
>>
>> Two Cents per Mile: Will President Obama Make it Happen WITH THE STROKE OF
>> A PEN? (Paperback)
>> by Nevres Cefo
>>
>> There also seems to be a web page to petition the Obama Administration to
>> do something about the NiMH battery situation.
>>
>> dcmonitor.com
>>
>> The web page in my view is a bit too focused on the idea that hydrogen is
>> the false-promise answer being held up to us. ?I think we're going forward
>> with Lithium Ion Batteries, and in the end they will work somewhat. ?Heck,
>> if I were an auto designer, I'd probably have to favor designing in Lithium
>> batteries over NiMh batteries.
>>
>> Yet, aren't automakers concerned with product durability and reliability
>> and safety? ?Isn't NiMH technology in some ways more proven than LIthium
>> technology in these areas for use in cars?
>>
>> A problem, as I see it, is that even assuming Lithium is in many ways
>> superior to NiMH technology, competition is still significantly constrained
>> and this is bad for all concerned and is likely further to delay the
>> necessary cost-effective implementation of much-more-efficient and cleaner
>> transportation.
>>
>> It's good to see Mr. Cefo out there trying to get the Obama adminsitration
>> to step in and really make things happen on NiMH batteries. ?I'm not holding
>> my breath for anyone (anywhere) in the Obama adminsitration to do ?anything.
>> ?You can't fix what you aren't willing to mention. ?To this day, no
>> policy-maker of prominence, in or outside the Administration, of ?whom I am
>> aware, has so much as publicly mentioned the NiMH battery situation.
>>
>> Disclaimer: I have a modest indirect interest in the fortunes of companies
>> that make all manner of traction batteries, including lead-acid, NiMH and
>> Lithium-Ion.
>>
>> Originally published: July 02, 2009
>>
>> __._,_.___
>> Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic
>> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar
>>
>> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
>> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format
>> to Traditional
>> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity
>> Visit Your Group
>> Give Back
>> Yahoo! for Good
>>
>> Get inspired
>>
>> by a good cause.
>>
>> Y! Toolbar
>> Get it Free!
>>
>> easy 1-click access
>>
>> to your groups.
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups
>> Start a group
>>
>> in 3 easy steps.
>>
>> Connect with others.
>> .
>>
>> __,_._,___
>>
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------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 23:24:50 -0700
From: "Chuck Hursch" <
ch10h3@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Wifi router EV battery tester
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <
ev@...>
Message-ID: <000001c9fd45$b4811920$9df41345@7bax5>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
David,
Thanks for your posting. Cool data collection device. When I've
had a digital clamp-on ammeter (with Hall-effect device)
measuring the DC side of an inverter, the 10Hz bar graph pulses
up and down. It's hard to say how much noise the FET's are
putting on the battery (you probably have a better idea). I
prefer using good ol' resistors for testing batteries. I use
carbon steel ones from C&H (railroad locomotive resistors), and I
have one that can be used for loading up to 24V of batteries at
75A, or the setup I like more is a series set of resistors to
load the whole car pack (96V) at 75A, and hold it nearly constant
at 75A with lightbulbs in parallel. Shouldn't be any noise on
the line with that setup, just pure DC. Lots of heat from the
car, about 7kW.
I have a software background, and when I see all those circuit
boards and components, my eyes roll up. Are you a EE by
training? Sometimes I think about going back to school so I can
build circuits, but maybe there is a better, less expensive way
to learn? (Drum roll please... "and that's by doing it").
Also it's great that you're building all those low-cost EVs (as I
saw from the links in your blog).
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Rowe" <
david@...>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <
ev@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 3:58 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Wifi router EV battery tester
> Hi,
>
> I have been messing around with a battery AH tester based on a
Wifi
> router for data collection and control, and $2 PIC
microcontroller
> board. I have blogged on it here:
>
>
http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?p=119
>
> Cheers,
>
> David
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> General EVDL support:
http://evdl.org/help/
> Usage guidelines:
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------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 09:28:48 -0400
From: Seth Allen <
seth.allen3@...>
Subject: [EVDL] How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor?
To:
ev@...
Message-ID:
<
bc1c6c20907050628n4fc32627s787e85b1aa2b4a96@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
308V is a decent place to start at for a 208VAC 3 phase powered AC
unit. You would need an inverter. Some inverters will run off DC, like
some Baldor VFD 3 phase drives. A 100 Amp Azure drive would do it, but
that's overkill for something Civic sized.
I think masterflux doesn't do this anymore, but if they do, then that
solution would be ideal.
Solectria used to sell DC motors for this rated for 150V. Two PM
motors wired in series might do it. I think they were Baldor units. So
you could surf the Baldor website.
Good luck.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 20:30:19 -0700
> From: Bill Ferguson <
bill@...>
> Subject: [EVDL] How to do air conditioning? or 300VDC motor?
> To: EV <
ev@...>
> Message-ID: <
936FA2FD-9CEF-4967-918E-F896139F0C47@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> EV experts,
>
> Has anyone put air conditioning in their EV conversion? If so, how
> did you do it or how would you do it?
>
> It seems the easiest way would be to add a small electric motor to
> power the existing air conditioner compressor, but I'm having trouble
> finding one that would work. I need a high quality, professional
> looking/performing solution, because we plan to sell the car.
>
> Does anyone know where I could buy a small electric motor that will
> run off 300V DC? It could be either brushless or with brushes, one
> hp. RPM could be 2,000 to 8000 rpm. I don't know if anyone makes a
> motor like this.
>
> I'm with a small group that is making our first electric car. We have
> a 2001 Honda Civic, have removed the gas motor and will be putting in
> an AC motor, controller, lithium-ion batteries and other electronics.
>
> We need a DC motor to run the air conditioner. Our battery pack is 96
> cells at 3.2 V each, so our battery pack will be 308 V. We have to
> have high voltage, in order to provide enough power to the AC motor.
> We can't run it off 12V, because it would take too much current from
> our DC/DC converter.
>
> Does anyone know a company or a brand that sells a small, electric,
> off-the-shelf, DC motor, along with the controller, that is powered
> by 300V DC? I found one company, Anaheim Automation, but they don't
> have a controller/driver for 300VDC.
>
> I see one or 2 companies sell a complete AC compressor, such as Cool
> Blue, but it's AC, so their plan to buy both the compressor and and
> inverter makes it more expensive and more complicated.
>
> Any ideas on a good solution would be appreciated.
>
> Thank you,
> Bill Ferguson
> eeVee Motors
> -------------- next part --------------
>
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 07:19:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Garbarini <
johnlg_2000@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fw: [BMBB] Obama Has Not Done Anything About NiMH
Battery Situation
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <
ev@...>
Message-ID: <
951060.32432.qm@...>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Obama is Cheney's cousin; do you think he'll actually do anything, except for
his masters? That's why the ballots were rigged to have him win in the first
place: to make sheeople think he's going to create change. And that goes double
(even triple) for health care reform, taxes, war, etc;
(please excuse my rant)
I'd like to start a battery factory, right here in my backyard, of Paterson, NJ.
Any suggestions on how to do it?
JG
--- On Sun, 7/5/09, evan foss <
evanfoss@...> wrote:
> From: evan foss <
evanfoss@...>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fw: [BMBB] Obama Has Not Done Anything About NiMH Battery
Situation
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <
ev@...>
> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 3:02 AM
> That would be because we have seen
> good working NiMH EVs with +140Mile
> ranges and good Lithium EVs with +200Mile ranges. What I
> have never
> seen a Zebra battery powered EV that came close to ether.
> NiMH is
> actually being kept out of sight by Chevron, no one is
> actually
> suppressing Zebra. The only Zebra battery powered car I
> have seen to
> date was more an NEV than an a highway capable EV. Plus for
> all the
> talk about Zebra they loose a lot of their stored power in
> heat. As
> for the toxicity of Cobalt any EV battery should and would
> be recycled
> (just like lead acid) and there are a multiplicity of
> alternate alloys
> for use in the Metal part of NiMH. I don't care for Mr.
> Rice's grammar
> but I think he is on the money here.
>
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Larry Gales<
larry.gales@...>
> wrote:
> > Why are you not much more outraged that the
> administration has done
> > nothing about the sodium nickel chloride (ZEBRA) and
> sodium iron
> > chloride batteries than the NiMH? ?After all, at 120
> and 110 wh/kg,
> > respectively, they equal or outshine Lithium
> batteries, and far surpass
> > NiMH (60-70 wh/kg), rival NiMH and Lithium in safety
> and long life,
> > greatly outclass all other batteries in all weather
> capabilities, and
> > radically lower cost ($120/KWH and < $100/KWH
> respectively, in mass
> > production), and the iron chloride battery has
> unlimited resources (salt
> > and iron), has no toxic or high cost materials, such
> as nickel and
> > cobalt like the NiMH, has been in production for 10
> years, and powering
> > real production vehicles in Britain for several
> years?
> >
> > ?-- Larry
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Bob Rice <
bobrice@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >> ? Hey? Me too> Howcome WE Sheeple haven't
> heard anything about
> >> NMH's??????????Not to diss the guy, but where are
> his advisors, BECIDES Doug
> >> Korthof??
> >>
> >> ? ? Bob
> >>
> >> ? ?40 YEARS and counting for THE badd-ery?
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Remy Chevalier
> >> To: BMBB List
> >> Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:57 AM
> >> Subject: [BMBB] Obama Has Not Done Anything About
> NiMH Battery Situation
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The Obama Administration Has Not Done Anything
> About The NiMH Battery
> >> Situation
> >> by Josh Landess
> >> Rio Rico, AZ
> >> Thursday | July 02, 2009
> >>
> >>
http://evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm?authorid=51
> >> As far as I know, the Obama Administration has
> done nothing whatsoever
> >> about the NiMH battery situation. ?For all of the
> energy and money they have
> >> put into promoting clean renewable
> domestically-produced energy and energy
> >> efficiency, when it came down to it, they have had
> nearly six months in
> >> office and have not taken a shot at even
> mentioning or discussing the
> >> Oil-Company-Stultified excellent tried-and-true
> energy storage technology.
> >>
> >> I was reviewing the specs of the Lithium-powered
> vehicles that are
> >> apparently coming to market over the next few
> ?months. ?In some cases coming
> >> "to market" is a bit of a stretch, but we'll see a
> few hundred vehicles on
> >> the road, here ?or there, basically in the hands
> of fleets... that sort of
> >> thing. ?... Some of the specs are not actually
> that impressive, and some
> >> are. ?Whereas some NiMH-powered vehicles ?were
> traveling well more than 100
> >> miles on a charge, at highway speeds, in the
> 1990s, the Lithium-powered
> >> offerings ?from Subaru and Mitsubishi from 2009
> don't seem to be there, or
> >> seem to struggle to match those numbers. ?To form
> a counter-point, we know
> >> that a good Lithium-Powered car from Tesla or BMW
> or others would at least
> >> bring out the strengths that Lithium offers, such
> as excellent range and low
> >> weight.
> >>
> >> I'm a fan of Lithium vehicles, and I hope they'll
> work out. ?In the
> >> meantime, they are going to market with a prime
> proven-reliable competitor
> >> (NiMH-powered-vehicles) apparently not allowed to
> compete fully.
> >>
> >> As far as I've been able to tell in my research so
> far, no mention has been
> >> made by anyone in the Obama Administration (or by
> anyone in policy-making
> >> for that matter) of the NiMH Battery situation.
> ?You can't fix what you
> >> can't discuss. ?Perhaps they think they can just
> close their eyes and hope
> >> for the best and everything will be ok? ?Maybe
> some think that Lithium
> >> vehicles will be produced in the hundreds of
> millions without any economic
> >> issues relating to a lack of competition or
> insufficient resources?
> >>
> >> Cobasys has been financially dying on the vine in
> Michigan for a year or
> >> two or more, with its workers' future in limbo,
> and yet no policy-maker
> >> wants to talk about this? ?I thought
> policy-makers liked to talk about jobs?
> >> ?ECD and Chevron have been collaborating quietly
> to keep non-US companies
> >> from doing much with NiMH batteries suitable for
> highway-capable BEVs, and
> >> yet no policy-maker has anything to say about
> this? ?I thought they wanted
> >> to say they cared about energy policy and
> ?"energy independence".
> >>
> >> One specific idea perhaps worth pursuing would be
> to work to try to
> >> discover a White Knight to purchase financially
> troubled Cobasys. ?If this
> >> course were pursued, at least two important things
> would have to be kept in
> >> mind. ?First, we should not be naive: the joint
> venture owners of Cobasys
> >> might try to harm the company's battery production
> rights and business (even
> >> more?) if it is being pried away. ?Second, prying
> Cobasys from its owners
> >> would not by any means solve all problems.
> ?Cobasys has North American
> >> exclusive production rights to batteries of a
> certain type, I believe, but
> >> they are not the basic patent holders. ?So, the
> global licensing situation
> >> would still need to be addressed.
> >>
> >> A funny thing is that I hear some of the same
> arguments from both sides:
> >> Lithium batteries are too resource constrained
> ?we are told. ?Then again,
> >> Rare Earth Metal investing seems to be driven
> largely these days by the idea
> >> that we will have to turn to NiMH traction
> batteries whose rare earth
> >> element ingredients are also not the most abundant
> things around.
> >>
> >> What if this suppression of NiMH battery
> technology had occured in smaller
> >> batteries? ?What if the extraordinarily quick
> advances in laptops and
> >> cameras and cell phones had been held up by some
> artificial oil company
> >> nonsense? ? Would we have stood for it if we had
> been told that we had to
> >> wait for a laptop until Lithium Ion was worked out
> because NiMH batteries
> >> weren't available or weren't good enough?
> >>
> >> I see there is a new book on Amazon.com which
> seeks to address itself to
> >> the NiMH battery situation, and the EV situation.
> ?I haven't read it, so I
> >> can't venture an opinion, but I am mentioning it
> for EV fans.
> >>
> >> Two Cents per Mile: Will President Obama Make it
> Happen WITH THE STROKE OF
> >> A PEN? (Paperback)
> >> by Nevres Cefo
> >>
> >> There also seems to be a web page to petition the
> Obama Administration to
> >> do something about the NiMH battery situation.
> >>
> >> dcmonitor.com
> >>
> >> The web page in my view is a bit too focused on
> the idea that hydrogen is
> >> the false-promise answer being held up to us. ?I
> think we're going forward
> >> with Lithium Ion Batteries, and in the end they
> will work somewhat. ?Heck,
> >> if I were an auto designer, I'd probably have to
> favor designing in Lithium
> >> batteries over NiMh batteries.
> >>
> >> Yet, aren't automakers concerned with product
> durability and reliability
> >> and safety? ?Isn't NiMH technology in some ways
> more proven than LIthium
> >> technology in these areas for use in cars?
> >>
> >> A problem, as I see it, is that even assuming
> Lithium is in many ways
> >> superior to NiMH technology, competition is still
> significantly constrained
> >> and this is bad for all concerned and is likely
> further to delay the
> >> necessary cost-effective implementation of
> much-more-efficient and cleaner
> >> transportation.
> >>
> >> It's good to see Mr. Cefo out there trying to get
> the Obama adminsitration
> >> to step in and really make things happen on NiMH
> batteries. ?I'm not holding
> >> my breath for anyone (anywhere) in the Obama
> adminsitration to do ?anything.
> >> ?You can't fix what you aren't willing to
> mention. ?To this day, no
> >> policy-maker of prominence, in or outside the
> Administration, of ?whom I am
> >> aware, has so much as publicly mentioned the NiMH
> battery situation.
> >>
> >> Disclaimer: I have a modest indirect interest in
> the fortunes of companies
> >> that make all manner of traction batteries,
> including lead-acid, NiMH and
> >> Lithium-Ion.
> >>
> >> Originally published: July 02, 2009
> >>
> >> __._,_.___
> >> Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) |
> Start a new topic
> >> Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database |
> Polls | Members | Calendar
> >>
> >> Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
> >> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to
> Daily Digest | Switch format
> >> to Traditional
> >> Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use |
> Unsubscribe Recent Activity
> >> Visit Your Group
> >> Give Back
> >> Yahoo! for Good
> >>
> >> Get inspired
> >>
> >> by a good cause.
> >>
> >> Y! Toolbar
> >> Get it Free!
> >>
> >> easy 1-click access
> >>
> >> to your groups.
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups
> >> Start a group
> >>
> >> in 3 easy steps.
> >>
> >> Connect with others.
> >> .
> >>
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> --
>
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>
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>
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------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 10:31:55 -0400
From: "Bob Rice" <
bobrice@...>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fw: [BMBB] Obama Has Not Done Anything About
NiMHBattery Situation
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <
ev@...>
Message-ID: <EF712E033C644029AC50F2269FE3849D@adminwlzisp2uc>
Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type="original"
----- Original Message -----
From: "evan foss" <
evanfoss@...>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <
ev@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 3:02 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fw: [BMBB] Obama Has Not Done Anything About NiMHBattery
Situation
That would be because we have seen good working NiMH EVs with +140Mile
ranges and good Lithium EVs with +200Mile ranges. What I have never
seen a Zebra battery powered EV that came close to ether. NiMH is
actually being kept out of sight by Chevron, no one is actually
suppressing Zebra. The only Zebra battery powered car I have seen to
date was more an NEV than an a highway capable EV. Plus for all the
talk about Zebra they loose a lot of their stored power in heat. As
for the toxicity of Cobalt any EV battery should and would be recycled
(just like lead acid) and there are a multiplicity of alternate alloys
for use in the Metal part of NiMH. I don't care for Mr. Rice's grammar
but I think he is on the money here.
It's the MESSAGE, rather than the medium, but IF I dive in, it is too
political, on here, to go off the deep end, I'll get yelled at? I forward
stuff from the "Electric Vehicles for Sale" Yahoo group, of which I follow.
Anything goes, over there. I feel that there ARE battery technologies out
there, waiting to be "discovered"? Have at it!
Grammar ? This isn't engrish 101?But STILL waiting for THE Battery;40
YEARS and counting!
Bob
On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Larry Gales<
larry.gales@...> wrote:
> Why are you not much more outraged that the administration has done
> nothing about the sodium nickel chloride (ZEBRA) and sodium iron
> chloride batteries than the NiMH? After all, at 120 and 110 wh/kg,
> respectively, they equal or outshine Lithium batteries, and far surpass
> NiMH (60-70 wh/kg), rival NiMH and Lithium in safety and long life,
> greatly outclass all other batteries in all weather capabilities, and
> radically lower cost ($120/KWH and < $100/KWH respectively, in mass
> production), and the iron chloride battery has unlimited resources (salt
> and iron), has no toxic or high cost materials, such as nickel and
> cobalt like the NiMH, has been in production for 10 years, and powering
> real production vehicles in Britain for several years?
>
> -- Larry
>
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:56 PM, Bob Rice <
bobrice@...> wrote:
>
>> Hey? Me too> Howcome WE Sheeple haven't heard anything about
>> NMH's??????????Not to diss the guy, but where are his advisors, BECIDES
>> Doug
>> Korthof??
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> 40 YEARS and counting for THE badd-ery?
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Remy Chevalier
>> To: BMBB List
>> Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 11:57 AM
>> Subject: [BMBB] Obama Has Not Done Anything About NiMH Battery Situation
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The Obama Administration Has Not Done Anything About The NiMH Battery
>> Situation
>> by Josh Landess
>> Rio Rico, AZ
>> Thursday | July 02, 2009
>>
>>
http://evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm?authorid=51
>> As far as I know, the Obama Administration has done nothing whatsoever
>> about the NiMH battery situation. For all of the energy and money they
>> have
>> put into promoting clean renewable domestically-produced energy and
>> energy
>> efficiency, when it came down to it, they have had nearly six months in
>> office and have not taken a shot at even mentioning or discussing the
>> Oil-Company-Stultified excellent tried-and-true energy storage
>> technology.
>>
>> I was reviewing the specs of the Lithium-powered vehicles that are
>> apparently coming to market over the next few months. In some cases
>> coming
>> "to market" is a bit of a stretch, but we'll see a few hundred vehicles
>> on
>> the road, here or there, basically in the hands of fleets... that sort of
>> thing. ... Some of the specs are not actually that impressive, and some
>> are. Whereas some NiMH-powered vehicles were traveling well more than 100
>> miles on a charge, at highway speeds, in the 1990s, the Lithium-powered
>> offerings from Subaru and Mitsubishi from 2009 don't seem to be there, or
>> seem to struggle to match those numbers. To form a counter-point, we know
>> that a good Lithium-Powered car from Tesla or BMW or others would at
>> least
>> bring out the strengths that Lithium offers, such as excellent range and
>> low
>> weight.
>>
>> I'm a fan of Lithium vehicles, and I hope they'll work out. In the
>> meantime, they are going to market with a prime proven-reliable
>> competitor
>> (NiMH-powered-vehicles) apparently not allowed to compete fully.
>>
>> As far as I've been able to tell in my research so far, no mention has
>> been
>> made by anyone in the Obama Administration (or by anyone in policy-making
>> for that matter) of the NiMH Battery situation. You can't fix what you
>> can't discuss. Perhaps they think they can just close their eyes and hope
>> for the best and everything will be ok? Maybe some think that Lithium
>> vehicles will be produced in the hundreds of millions without any
>> economic
>> issues relating to a lack of competition or insufficient resources?
>>
>> Cobasys has been financially dying on the vine in Michigan for a year or
>> two or more, with its workers' future in limbo, and yet no policy-maker
>> wants to talk about this? I thought policy-makers liked to talk about
>> jobs?
>> ECD and Chevron have been collaborating quietly to keep non-US companies
>> from doing much with NiMH batteries suitable for highway-capable BEVs,
>> and
>> yet no policy-maker has anything to say about this? I thought they wanted
>> to say they cared about energy policy and "energy independence".
>>
>> One specific idea perhaps worth pursuing would be to work to try to
>> discover a White Knight to purchase financially troubled Cobasys. If this
>> course were pursued, at least two important things would have to be kept
>> in
>> mind. First, we should not be naive: the joint venture owners of Cobasys
>> might try to harm the company's battery production rights and business
>> (even
>> more?) if it is being pried away. Second, prying Cobasys from its owners
>> would not by any means solve all problems. Cobasys has North American
>> exclusive production rights to batteries of a certain type, I believe,
>> but
>> they are not the basic patent holders. So, the global licensing situation
>> would still need to be addressed.
>>
>> A funny thing is that I hear some of the same arguments from both sides:
>> Lithium batteries are too resource constrained we are told. Then again,
>> Rare Earth Metal investing seems to be driven largely these days by the
>> idea
>> that we will have to turn to NiMH traction batteries whose rare earth
>> element ingredients are also not the most abundant things around.
>>
>> What if this suppression of NiMH battery technology had occured in
>> smaller
>> batteries? What if the extraordinarily quick advances in laptops and
>> cameras and cell phones had been held up by some artificial oil company
>> nonsense? Would we have stood for it if we had been told that we had to
>> wait for a laptop until Lithium Ion was worked out because NiMH batteries
>> weren't available or weren't good enough?
>>
>> I see there is a new book on Amazon.com which seeks to address itself to
>> the NiMH battery situation, and the EV situation. I haven't read it, so I
>> can't venture an opinion, but I am mentioning it for EV fans.
>>
>> Two Cents per Mile: Will President Obama Make it Happen WITH THE STROKE
>> OF
>> A PEN? (Paperback)
>> by Nevres Cefo
>>
>> There also seems to be a web page to petition the Obama Administration to
>> do something about the NiMH battery situation.
>>
>> dcmonitor.com
>>
>> The web page in my view is a bit too focused on the idea that hydrogen is
>> the false-promise answer being held up to us. I think we're going forward
>> with Lithium Ion Batteries, and in the end they will work somewhat. Heck,
>> if I were an auto designer, I'd probably have to favor designing in
>> Lithium
>> batteries over NiMh batteries.
>>
>> Yet, aren't automakers concerned with product durability and reliability
>> and safety? Isn't NiMH technology in some ways more proven than LIthium
>> technology in these areas for use in cars?
>>
>> A problem, as I see it, is that even assuming Lithium is in many ways
>> superior to NiMH technology, competition is still significantly
>> constrained
>> and this is bad for all concerned and is likely further to delay the
>> necessary cost-effective implementation of much-more-efficient and
>> cleaner
>> transportation.
>>
>> It's good to see Mr. Cefo out there trying to get the Obama
>> adminsitration
>> to step in and really make things happen on NiMH batteries. I'm not
>> holding
>> my breath for anyone (anywhere) in the Obama adminsitration to do
>> anything.
>> You can't fix what you aren't willing to mention. To this day, no
>> policy-maker of prominence, in or outside the Administration, of whom I
>> am
>> aware, has so much as publicly mentioned the NiMH battery situation.
>>
>> Disclaimer: I have a modest indirect interest in the fortunes of
>> companies
>> that make all manner of traction batteries, including lead-acid, NiMH and
>> Lithium-Ion.
>>
>> Originally published: July 02, 2009
>>
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