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Determinism/Non-Determinism   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #1045 of 1103 |
RE: [executableuml] Re: Determinism/Non-Determinism

If by “suppose we made a rule”, one means “suppose the modelers and architects on a given project together agree to make a rule for that project that said…”, one will have managed to make this one example deterministic. In other words, make an assumption at the modeler level and levy a requirement at the architecture level that will “fix” this one example. (And, BTW, the “fix” is made deterministic by making it trivial: in the fixed example the query will always return FALSE since it always completes before the signal is sent.)

 

This seems like a heavy-weight mechanism to introduce just to deal with a construct that is, IMHO, of questionable value in the first place.

 

Leon’s response provides a more general mechanism, already built into Executable UML, that allows determinism wherever desired by the modeler WITHOUT adding any additional work at the architectural level.

 

The suggested change in semantics is not required to make any arbitrary Executable UML domain model deterministic, nor does it seem desirable, nor would it make the Wikipedia description correct in the general case.

 

Nevertheless I agree that Marc’s original response was correct: his rule makes the specific example deterministic.

 

--Erick

 

 

Erick G. Hagstrom
Lead Information Systems Engineer

The MITRE Corporation
7515 Colshire Dr.
McLean VA 22102-7508

ehagstrom@...

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703.983.2451

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From: executableuml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:executableuml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ashley at Metamaxim
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 3:26 AM
To: executableuml@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [executableuml] Re: Determinism/Non-Determinism

 

Hi Marc

> Suppose we made a rule that said, "no matter how the procedure is
written, all 'send signal' actions occur at the end of the procedure's
execution."

You seem to be suggesting that the semantics of the Executable UML
language can (by the introduction of new rules) be changed so that
models expressed in it are deterministic. I have no doubt that this is
possible, although might require more than just the rule single extra
rule that you suggest.

Are you saying that such a change to the semantics is required/desirable?

The introduction of such a change would, of course, make the Wikipedia
description correct!

Rgds
Ashley



Mon Oct 6, 2008 3:30 pm

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Message #1045 of 1103 |
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Hi All Some time ago, I posted a question (message 704) to this list about Determinism/Non-Determinism in Executable UML, which Marc was kind enough to answer...
Ashley McNeile
keplervic
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Oct 4, 2008
7:26 pm

My quick stab at the question inserted below. I am hoping your question provokes some further discussion. ... I think the confusion may center around the...
Leon Starr
model_integr...
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Oct 5, 2008
3:44 am

The problem posed in question 704 <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/executableuml/message/704> was Suppose you have a PIM expressed in Executable UML...
mjbalcer
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Oct 5, 2008
8:33 pm

Hi Marc ... written, all 'send signal' actions occur at the end of the procedure's execution." You seem to be suggesting that the semantics of the Executable...
Ashley at Metamaxim
keplervic
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Oct 6, 2008
7:25 am

If by "suppose we made a rule", one means "suppose the modelers and architects on a given project together agree to make a rule for that project that said...",...
Hagstrom, Erick G.
eghagstrom
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Oct 6, 2008
3:30 pm

... I actually put that wording into the Wikipedia entry. I'm not sure what prompted me to use "deterministic system" vs "system", but the Wikipedia...
Lee Riemenschneider
lwriemen
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Oct 7, 2008
3:18 pm

Hi Lee ... This is not true if the two objects are on different computers, and the signal and query mechanisms are implemented using different communication...
Ashley at Metamaxim
keplervic
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Oct 7, 2008
5:35 pm

... What I meant was, if you use an architecture that ensures a strictly synchronous signaling mechanism on a single-threaded system (no side effects), then...
Lee Riemenschneider
lwriemen
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Oct 8, 2008
4:21 pm

Hi Lee ... Exactly. And if this is possible, the Wikipedia entry is wrong (or at least misleading). I would suggest that it be changed, to avoid trouble from...
Ashley at Metamaxim
keplervic
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Oct 8, 2008
5:38 pm

Hi All Just to make my own point of view clear, and lest my position be seen as gratuitous pedantry: There are some languages that deal with concurrency but do...
Ashley at Metamaxim
keplervic
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Oct 9, 2008
7:11 am

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:11 AM, Ashley at Metamaxim ... I would agree that it is misleading, perhaps even fundamentally so. Properly understood, any...
Caitlin Bestler
caitlinbestler
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Oct 9, 2008
8:44 pm

Hi All I see that the Wikipedia entry has been changed. Thanks. Actually, the same text appears in the entry for MDA (...
Ashley at Metamaxim
keplervic
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Oct 10, 2008
9:00 am

Hmmm... Somebody copied where a link would have sufficed. This is the actual problem that should be corrected. I posted as much to the discussion section of...
Lee Riemenschneider
lwriemen
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Oct 10, 2008
12:47 pm

Someone's not clear on what's in which Domain. J From: executableuml@yahoogroups.com [mailto:executableuml@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lee Riemenschneider ...
Hagstrom, Erick G.
eghagstrom
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Oct 10, 2008
5:44 pm

... If ExecutableUML were truly deterministic it would no longer be useful for interacting with a physical world that was not in fact deterministic. I would...
Caitlin Bestler
caitlinbestler
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Oct 8, 2008
11:52 pm
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