When I call up express pcb I get this error 13 / type mismatch.
If I call up express sch, all is well.

These progs have worked on this puter in the last yr.
I've updated, removed & re-installed several times...same deal.

I like using Expresspcb but if I cant get it to cooperate with my puter or vice
versa I'm going to have to move on.

Anyone have a clue what I, or my puter, are doing wrong?

WinXp, a gig of mem, office 2k, AVG anti-virus, all the MS updates are recent.

Thanks in advance for any insights & advice.
BobC

I created an 24x16 RGB LED matrix board fairly large about 220x185 mm in
ExpressPCB and got a quote from Futurlec as they were cheaper and offered
silkscreen and soldermasks for 2 boards at $140 while ExpressPCB did not offer
soldermasks and silkscreen for 2 boards at $148 (inc shipping). I got an email
back from Futurlec stating that they were not able to do small PCB traces (see
below):



Dear Sir

Refer to the data file which has been sent to us lately, engineer detect that
there are many points which is beyond our limitation so we would like to ask you
adjust data file as the information listed below.

Track should not be lower than 10 mils.

Diameter of via should be not lower than 40 mils and 20 mils for hole size.

Clearance should be increasing at least 8 mils.


Please kindly inform us if there are any problems about editing file. Promptly
respond would be appreciated.

Best Regards
Bee
Sales Assistant
www.futurlec.com



I decided to go with the manufacturer (ExpressPCB) and just not get the
soldermasks and silkscreen. I should have it here next week.

My point is that Futurlec is cheaper but may not be able to support all trace
sizes that the ExpressPCB software provides. It's a shame. I certainly was not
going to redesign the board to save a few bucks here.

Tim Gilmore


--- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kelsey" <wb2edv@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "georgerothbart" <george@...>
> To: <expresspcb@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:20 PM
> Subject: [expresspcb] Re: ExpressPCB or Eagle ?
>
>
> >
> >
> > Here are some costs figures from both PCBExpress and Futurelec for a board
> > that measures 60mm x100mm, double sided, solder mask, silkscreen:
> >
> > Quantity     PCBExpress     Futurelec
> > 4            $254           $84
> > 10           $272           $120
> > 50           $355           $299
> > 76           $426           $423
> > 100          $470           $538
> > 200          $735           $1015
> >
> > So for me and my board, its more cost effective to go Futurelec if I am
> > making less than 75 boards, otherwise PCBExpress is better.
> >
> >
> > --- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kelsey" <wb2edv@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Can you share an example of cost at Futurlec?
> >>
> >> Chuck
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "cataula" <cataula@>
> >> To: <expresspcb@yahoogroups.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 2:08 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [expresspcb] Re: ExpressPCB or Eagle ?
> >>
> >>
> >> > Look at http://www.futurlec.com/PCBService.shtml
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > They are less than ExpressPCB and will accept their file format.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > From: mrstevesmall
> >> > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:57 AM
> >> > To: expresspcb@yahoogroups.com
> >> > Subject: [expresspcb] Re: ExpressPCB or Eagle ?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >  I would agree. DipTrace is a very good product. It also has automatic
> >> > trace routing to simplify those cumbersome traces you may have to lay
> >> > out
> >> > by hand in ExpressPCB. You can do most of your projects with the free
> >> > version anyway as the paid version is pretty expensive...
> >> >
> >> > -Steve
> >> >
> >> > --- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, Jack Smith <Jack.Smith@> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> You might wish to look at DipTrace. There's a free version for small
> >> >> jobs and it's much easier to use than Eagle. Eagle seems to ignore the
> >> >> standard Windows conventions to a distressing degree, while DipTrace
> >> >> follows the normal Windows practices for copy, paste, etc
> >> >>
> >> >> DipTrace will import Eagle footprint libraries, by the way.
> >> >>
> >> >> Jack
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Michael V wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I also like the simplicity of ExpressPCB, and I do have Eagle loaded
> >> >> > in my computer too. Eagle seems hard to learn; whereas with
> >> >> > ExpressPCB, it is very straightforward.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Once you have your design done, you can pay ExpressPCB some money to
> >> >> > get the gerbers, and now you can go anywhere.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I really don't mind the few hundred dollars worth of setup charges,
> >> >> > since that is just a fraction of how much we sell our products for.
> >> >> > You get free layout software, but pay for it every time you have
> >> >> > boards made. What I do hate is that they don't offer bottom side
> >> >> > silkscreen!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Which leads me to another question: If I get the gerbers from
> >> >> > ExpressPCB, can I simply use a gerber editor to add my reference
> >> >> > designators on the bottom silkscreen layer?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com
> >> >> > <mailto:expresspcb%40yahoogroups.com>, "timothy.gilmore"
> >> >> > <gilmoret@> wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > I have been using ExpressPCB and ExpressSCH for a few years now
> >> >> > > and
> >> >> > had some PCB's made. However, I always thought they were expensive
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > have done and this is just what it is. Then I started thinking about
> >> >> > this as I have a new project with 6 larger RGB LED matrixes which
> >> >> > would take up a fair amount of surface area. To get these boards
> >> >> > made
> >> >> > would run $128 for 2. Another forum I belong to has a guy that uses
> >> >> > Eagle and only pays $1-$3 or so per board. Yea it probably is
> >> >> > smaller
> >> >> > and he he get's about 10 of them or so. I am looking at redesigning
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > board I see another China based company sells for $12 that my cost
> >> >> > would be 5-10 times that amount. How can I compete with that?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > I tried Eagle mainly for their Autorouting feature but found it
> >> >> > difficult to learn but may with time.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Is this common to spend so much for PCB's with ExpressPCB? I don't
> >> >> > think it should be.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Thanks!



----- Original Message -----
From: "georgerothbart" <george@...>
To: <expresspcb@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:20 PM
Subject: [expresspcb] Re: ExpressPCB or Eagle ?


>
>
> Here are some costs figures from both PCBExpress and Futurelec for a board
> that measures 60mm x100mm, double sided, solder mask, silkscreen:
>
> Quantity     PCBExpress     Futurelec
> 4            $254           $84
> 10           $272           $120
> 50           $355           $299
> 76           $426           $423
> 100          $470           $538
> 200          $735           $1015
>
> So for me and my board, its more cost effective to go Futurelec if I am
> making less than 75 boards, otherwise PCBExpress is better.
>
>
> --- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kelsey" <wb2edv@...> wrote:
>>
>> Can you share an example of cost at Futurlec?
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "cataula" <cataula@...>
>> To: <expresspcb@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 2:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: [expresspcb] Re: ExpressPCB or Eagle ?
>>
>>
>> > Look at http://www.futurlec.com/PCBService.shtml
>> >
>> >
>> > They are less than ExpressPCB and will accept their file format.
>> >
>> >
>> > From: mrstevesmall
>> > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:57 AM
>> > To: expresspcb@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: [expresspcb] Re: ExpressPCB or Eagle ?
>> >
>> >
>> >  I would agree. DipTrace is a very good product. It also has automatic
>> > trace routing to simplify those cumbersome traces you may have to lay
>> > out
>> > by hand in ExpressPCB. You can do most of your projects with the free
>> > version anyway as the paid version is pretty expensive...
>> >
>> > -Steve
>> >
>> > --- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, Jack Smith <Jack.Smith@> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> You might wish to look at DipTrace. There's a free version for small
>> >> jobs and it's much easier to use than Eagle. Eagle seems to ignore the
>> >> standard Windows conventions to a distressing degree, while DipTrace
>> >> follows the normal Windows practices for copy, paste, etc
>> >>
>> >> DipTrace will import Eagle footprint libraries, by the way.
>> >>
>> >> Jack
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Michael V wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I also like the simplicity of ExpressPCB, and I do have Eagle loaded
>> >> > in my computer too. Eagle seems hard to learn; whereas with
>> >> > ExpressPCB, it is very straightforward.
>> >> >
>> >> > Once you have your design done, you can pay ExpressPCB some money to
>> >> > get the gerbers, and now you can go anywhere.
>> >> >
>> >> > I really don't mind the few hundred dollars worth of setup charges,
>> >> > since that is just a fraction of how much we sell our products for.
>> >> > You get free layout software, but pay for it every time you have
>> >> > boards made. What I do hate is that they don't offer bottom side
>> >> > silkscreen!
>> >> >
>> >> > Which leads me to another question: If I get the gerbers from
>> >> > ExpressPCB, can I simply use a gerber editor to add my reference
>> >> > designators on the bottom silkscreen layer?
>> >> >
>> >> > --- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com
>> >> > <mailto:expresspcb%40yahoogroups.com>, "timothy.gilmore"
>> >> > <gilmoret@> wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I have been using ExpressPCB and ExpressSCH for a few years now
>> >> > > and
>> >> > had some PCB's made. However, I always thought they were expensive
>> >> > to
>> >> > have done and this is just what it is. Then I started thinking about
>> >> > this as I have a new project with 6 larger RGB LED matrixes which
>> >> > would take up a fair amount of surface area. To get these boards
>> >> > made
>> >> > would run $128 for 2. Another forum I belong to has a guy that uses
>> >> > Eagle and only pays $1-$3 or so per board. Yea it probably is
>> >> > smaller
>> >> > and he he get's about 10 of them or so. I am looking at redesigning
>> >> > a
>> >> > board I see another China based company sells for $12 that my cost
>> >> > would be 5-10 times that amount. How can I compete with that?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I tried Eagle mainly for their Autorouting feature but found it
>> >> > difficult to learn but may with time.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Is this common to spend so much for PCB's with ExpressPCB? I don't
>> >> > think it should be.
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Here are some costs figures from both PCBExpress and Futurelec for a board that
measures 60mm x100mm, double sided, solder mask, silkscreen:

Quantity     PCBExpress     Futurelec
4            $254           $84
10           $272           $120
50           $355           $299
76           $426           $423
100          $470           $538
200          $735           $1015

So for me and my board, its more cost effective to go Futurelec if I am making
less than 75 boards, otherwise PCBExpress is better.


--- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Kelsey" <wb2edv@...> wrote:
>
> Can you share an example of cost at Futurlec?
>
> Chuck
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "cataula" <cataula@...>
> To: <expresspcb@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 2:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [expresspcb] Re: ExpressPCB or Eagle ?
>
>
> > Look at http://www.futurlec.com/PCBService.shtml
> >
> >
> > They are less than ExpressPCB and will accept their file format.
> >
> >
> > From: mrstevesmall
> > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:57 AM
> > To: expresspcb@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [expresspcb] Re: ExpressPCB or Eagle ?
> >
> >
> >  I would agree. DipTrace is a very good product. It also has automatic
> > trace routing to simplify those cumbersome traces you may have to lay out
> > by hand in ExpressPCB. You can do most of your projects with the free
> > version anyway as the paid version is pretty expensive...
> >
> > -Steve
> >
> > --- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, Jack Smith <Jack.Smith@> wrote:
> >>
> >> You might wish to look at DipTrace. There's a free version for small
> >> jobs and it's much easier to use than Eagle. Eagle seems to ignore the
> >> standard Windows conventions to a distressing degree, while DipTrace
> >> follows the normal Windows practices for copy, paste, etc
> >>
> >> DipTrace will import Eagle footprint libraries, by the way.
> >>
> >> Jack
> >>
> >>
> >> Michael V wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I also like the simplicity of ExpressPCB, and I do have Eagle loaded
> >> > in my computer too. Eagle seems hard to learn; whereas with
> >> > ExpressPCB, it is very straightforward.
> >> >
> >> > Once you have your design done, you can pay ExpressPCB some money to
> >> > get the gerbers, and now you can go anywhere.
> >> >
> >> > I really don't mind the few hundred dollars worth of setup charges,
> >> > since that is just a fraction of how much we sell our products for.
> >> > You get free layout software, but pay for it every time you have
> >> > boards made. What I do hate is that they don't offer bottom side
> >> > silkscreen!
> >> >
> >> > Which leads me to another question: If I get the gerbers from
> >> > ExpressPCB, can I simply use a gerber editor to add my reference
> >> > designators on the bottom silkscreen layer?
> >> >
> >> > --- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com
> >> > <mailto:expresspcb%40yahoogroups.com>, "timothy.gilmore"
> >> > <gilmoret@> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > I have been using ExpressPCB and ExpressSCH for a few years now and
> >> > had some PCB's made. However, I always thought they were expensive to
> >> > have done and this is just what it is. Then I started thinking about
> >> > this as I have a new project with 6 larger RGB LED matrixes which
> >> > would take up a fair amount of surface area. To get these boards made
> >> > would run $128 for 2. Another forum I belong to has a guy that uses
> >> > Eagle and only pays $1-$3 or so per board. Yea it probably is smaller
> >> > and he he get's about 10 of them or so. I am looking at redesigning a
> >> > board I see another China based company sells for $12 that my cost
> >> > would be 5-10 times that amount. How can I compete with that?
> >> > >
> >> > > I tried Eagle mainly for their Autorouting feature but found it
> >> > difficult to learn but may with time.
> >> > >
> >> > > Is this common to spend so much for PCB's with ExpressPCB? I don't
> >> > think it should be.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Follow the link at http://www.futurlec.com/PCBService.shtml and plug in your
board dimensions, board type, quantity, etc and they will give you a price.


From: Chuck Kelsey
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 8:46 PM
To: expresspcb@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [expresspcb] Re: ExpressPCB or Eagle ?


   Can you share an example of cost at Futurlec?

Chuck

----- Original Message -----
From: "cataula" <cataula@...>
To: <expresspcb@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: [expresspcb] Re: ExpressPCB or Eagle ?

> Look at http://www.futurlec.com/PCBService.shtml
>
>
> They are less than ExpressPCB and will accept their file format.
>
>
> From: mrstevesmall
> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:57 AM
> To: expresspcb@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [expresspcb] Re: ExpressPCB or Eagle ?
>
>
> I would agree. DipTrace is a very good product. It also has automatic
> trace routing to simplify those cumbersome traces you may have to lay out
> by hand in ExpressPCB. You can do most of your projects with the free
> version anyway as the paid version is pretty expensive...
>
> -Steve
>
> --- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, Jack Smith <Jack.Smith@...> wrote:
>>
>> You might wish to look at DipTrace. There's a free version for small
>> jobs and it's much easier to use than Eagle. Eagle seems to ignore the
>> standard Windows conventions to a distressing degree, while DipTrace
>> follows the normal Windows practices for copy, paste, etc
>>
>> DipTrace will import Eagle footprint libraries, by the way.
>>
>> Jack
>>
>>
>> Michael V wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > I also like the simplicity of ExpressPCB, and I do have Eagle loaded
>> > in my computer too. Eagle seems hard to learn; whereas with
>> > ExpressPCB, it is very straightforward.
>> >
>> > Once you have your design done, you can pay ExpressPCB some money to
>> > get the gerbers, and now you can go anywhere.
>> >
>> > I really don't mind the few hundred dollars worth of setup charges,
>> > since that is just a fraction of how much we sell our products for.
>> > You get free layout software, but pay for it every time you have
>> > boards made. What I do hate is that they don't offer bottom side
>> > silkscreen!
>> >
>> > Which leads me to another question: If I get the gerbers from
>> > ExpressPCB, can I simply use a gerber editor to add my reference
>> > designators on the bottom silkscreen layer?
>> >
>> > --- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com
>> > <mailto:expresspcb%40yahoogroups.com>, "timothy.gilmore"
>> > <gilmoret@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I have been using ExpressPCB and ExpressSCH for a few years now and
>> > had some PCB's made. However, I always thought they were expensive to
>> > have done and this is just what it is. Then I started thinking about
>> > this as I have a new project with 6 larger RGB LED matrixes which
>> > would take up a fair amount of surface area. To get these boards made
>> > would run $128 for 2. Another forum I belong to has a guy that uses
>> > Eagle and only pays $1-$3 or so per board. Yea it probably is smaller
>> > and he he get's about 10 of them or so. I am looking at redesigning a
>> > board I see another China based company sells for $12 that my cost
>> > would be 5-10 times that amount. How can I compete with that?
>> > >
>> > > I tried Eagle mainly for their Autorouting feature but found it
>> > difficult to learn but may with time.
>> > >
>> > > Is this common to spend so much for PCB's with ExpressPCB? I don't
>> > think it should be.
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Can you share an example of cost at Futurlec?

Chuck


----- Original Message -----
From: "cataula" <cataula@...>
To: <expresspcb@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: [expresspcb] Re: ExpressPCB or Eagle ?


> Look at http://www.futurlec.com/PCBService.shtml
>
>
> They are less than ExpressPCB and will accept their file format.
>
>
> From: mrstevesmall
> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:57 AM
> To: expresspcb@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [expresspcb] Re: ExpressPCB or Eagle ?
>
>
>  I would agree. DipTrace is a very good product. It also has automatic
> trace routing to simplify those cumbersome traces you may have to lay out
> by hand in ExpressPCB. You can do most of your projects with the free
> version anyway as the paid version is pretty expensive...
>
> -Steve
>
> --- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, Jack Smith <Jack.Smith@...> wrote:
>>
>> You might wish to look at DipTrace. There's a free version for small
>> jobs and it's much easier to use than Eagle. Eagle seems to ignore the
>> standard Windows conventions to a distressing degree, while DipTrace
>> follows the normal Windows practices for copy, paste, etc
>>
>> DipTrace will import Eagle footprint libraries, by the way.
>>
>> Jack
>>
>>
>> Michael V wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > I also like the simplicity of ExpressPCB, and I do have Eagle loaded
>> > in my computer too. Eagle seems hard to learn; whereas with
>> > ExpressPCB, it is very straightforward.
>> >
>> > Once you have your design done, you can pay ExpressPCB some money to
>> > get the gerbers, and now you can go anywhere.
>> >
>> > I really don't mind the few hundred dollars worth of setup charges,
>> > since that is just a fraction of how much we sell our products for.
>> > You get free layout software, but pay for it every time you have
>> > boards made. What I do hate is that they don't offer bottom side
>> > silkscreen!
>> >
>> > Which leads me to another question: If I get the gerbers from
>> > ExpressPCB, can I simply use a gerber editor to add my reference
>> > designators on the bottom silkscreen layer?
>> >
>> > --- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com
>> > <mailto:expresspcb%40yahoogroups.com>, "timothy.gilmore"
>> > <gilmoret@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I have been using ExpressPCB and ExpressSCH for a few years now and
>> > had some PCB's made. However, I always thought they were expensive to
>> > have done and this is just what it is. Then I started thinking about
>> > this as I have a new project with 6 larger RGB LED matrixes which
>> > would take up a fair amount of surface area. To get these boards made
>> > would run $128 for 2. Another forum I belong to has a guy that uses
>> > Eagle and only pays $1-$3 or so per board. Yea it probably is smaller
>> > and he he get's about 10 of them or so. I am looking at redesigning a
>> > board I see another China based company sells for $12 that my cost
>> > would be 5-10 times that amount. How can I compete with that?
>> > >
>> > > I tried Eagle mainly for their Autorouting feature but found it
>> > difficult to learn but may with time.
>> > >
>> > > Is this common to spend so much for PCB's with ExpressPCB? I don't
>> > think it should be.
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Look at http://www.futurlec.com/PCBService.shtml


They are less than ExpressPCB and will accept their file format.


From: mrstevesmall
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:57 AM
To: expresspcb@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [expresspcb] Re: ExpressPCB or Eagle ?


   I would agree. DipTrace is a very good product. It also has automatic trace
routing to simplify those cumbersome traces you may have to lay out by hand in
ExpressPCB. You can do most of your projects with the free version anyway as the
paid version is pretty expensive...

-Steve

--- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, Jack Smith <Jack.Smith@...> wrote:
>
> You might wish to look at DipTrace. There's a free version for small
> jobs and it's much easier to use than Eagle. Eagle seems to ignore the
> standard Windows conventions to a distressing degree, while DipTrace
> follows the normal Windows practices for copy, paste, etc
>
> DipTrace will import Eagle footprint libraries, by the way.
>
> Jack
>
>
> Michael V wrote:
> >
> >
> > I also like the simplicity of ExpressPCB, and I do have Eagle loaded
> > in my computer too. Eagle seems hard to learn; whereas with
> > ExpressPCB, it is very straightforward.
> >
> > Once you have your design done, you can pay ExpressPCB some money to
> > get the gerbers, and now you can go anywhere.
> >
> > I really don't mind the few hundred dollars worth of setup charges,
> > since that is just a fraction of how much we sell our products for.
> > You get free layout software, but pay for it every time you have
> > boards made. What I do hate is that they don't offer bottom side
> > silkscreen!
> >
> > Which leads me to another question: If I get the gerbers from
> > ExpressPCB, can I simply use a gerber editor to add my reference
> > designators on the bottom silkscreen layer?
> >
> > --- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:expresspcb%40yahoogroups.com>, "timothy.gilmore"
> > <gilmoret@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have been using ExpressPCB and ExpressSCH for a few years now and
> > had some PCB's made. However, I always thought they were expensive to
> > have done and this is just what it is. Then I started thinking about
> > this as I have a new project with 6 larger RGB LED matrixes which
> > would take up a fair amount of surface area. To get these boards made
> > would run $128 for 2. Another forum I belong to has a guy that uses
> > Eagle and only pays $1-$3 or so per board. Yea it probably is smaller
> > and he he get's about 10 of them or so. I am looking at redesigning a
> > board I see another China based company sells for $12 that my cost
> > would be 5-10 times that amount. How can I compete with that?
> > >
> > > I tried Eagle mainly for their Autorouting feature but found it
> > difficult to learn but may with time.
> > >
> > > Is this common to spend so much for PCB's with ExpressPCB? I don't
> > think it should be.
> > >
> >
> >
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was hoping someone may know a part number from any supplier, for a socket that
would allow me to socket mount 5mm high flux piranha leds to my pcbs?

Forgot to mention that if you are not in a hurry, SparkFun Electronics
has a very good prototype service. Double sided boards, with solder mask
and silk screen on both sides at $2.50 per square inch in any quantity
from 1 on up. I've used the service many times and the quality is
excellent. Not fast, as they wait until a number of orders have arrived
and batch them into one or more full panels. Usual time from submission
of Gerbers to receipt of boards is around 3 weeks although I've had a
few take as long as 4 weeks. The price is computed on the actual board
area and the  boards can be of any shape. http://www.batchpcb.com/
There's also a $10 order charge so it saves money if you have several
designs submitted at the same time as the order charge applies only once
so long as the designs are submitted together.

You might also find the "bare bones" boards from Advanced Circuits of
some use. Double sided boards, no silk screen, no solder mask but the
production is very fast, 24 hours normally. There's a minimum order
quantity. http://www.4pcb.com/index.php?load=content&page_id=132

Jack



mrstevesmall wrote:
>
>
> I would agree. DipTrace is a very good product. It also has automatic
> trace routing to simplify those cumbersome traces you may have to lay
> out by hand in ExpressPCB. You can do most of your projects with the
> free version anyway as the paid version is pretty expensive...
>
> -Steve
>
> --- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:expresspcb%40yahoogroups.com>, Jack Smith <Jack.Smith@...> wrote:
> >
> > You might wish to look at DipTrace. There's a free version for small
> > jobs and it's much easier to use than Eagle. Eagle seems to ignore the
> > standard Windows conventions to a distressing degree, while DipTrace
> > follows the normal Windows practices for copy, paste, etc
> >
> > DipTrace will import Eagle footprint libraries, by the way.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> >
> > Michael V wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I also like the simplicity of ExpressPCB, and I do have Eagle loaded
> > > in my computer too. Eagle seems hard to learn; whereas with
> > > ExpressPCB, it is very straightforward.
> > >
> > > Once you have your design done, you can pay ExpressPCB some money to
> > > get the gerbers, and now you can go anywhere.
> > >
> > > I really don't mind the few hundred dollars worth of setup charges,
> > > since that is just a fraction of how much we sell our products for.
> > > You get free layout software, but pay for it every time you have
> > > boards made. What I do hate is that they don't offer bottom side
> > > silkscreen!
> > >
> > > Which leads me to another question: If I get the gerbers from
> > > ExpressPCB, can I simply use a gerber editor to add my reference
> > > designators on the bottom silkscreen layer?
> > >
> > > --- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:expresspcb%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <mailto:expresspcb%40yahoogroups.com>, "timothy.gilmore"
> > > <gilmoret@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have been using ExpressPCB and ExpressSCH for a few years now and
> > > had some PCB's made. However, I always thought they were expensive to
> > > have done and this is just what it is. Then I started thinking about
> > > this as I have a new project with 6 larger RGB LED matrixes which
> > > would take up a fair amount of surface area. To get these boards made
> > > would run $128 for 2. Another forum I belong to has a guy that uses
> > > Eagle and only pays $1-$3 or so per board. Yea it probably is smaller
> > > and he he get's about 10 of them or so. I am looking at redesigning a
> > > board I see another China based company sells for $12 that my cost
> > > would be 5-10 times that amount. How can I compete with that?
> > > >
> > > > I tried Eagle mainly for their Autorouting feature but found it
> > > difficult to learn but may with time.
> > > >
> > > > Is this common to spend so much for PCB's with ExpressPCB? I don't
> > > think it should be.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

How complex?
Have you tried to use the software yet?
I've had them make me close to a thousand boards.
It's a pretty easy process. I'm not sure what your looking
for.
I may be able to help if your more specific.
Bill
N5ZTW

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "davemynatt" <dave@...>
To: expresspcb@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [expresspcb] Need Design Help
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 02:46:11 -0000

> I have a hand-drawn schematic and need it rendered for
> ExpressPCB to make me a board. Anyone do that final step?
>
> Dave
> KA0SWT
>
>

I would agree. DipTrace is a very good product. It also has automatic trace
routing to simplify those cumbersome traces you may have to lay out by hand in
ExpressPCB. You can do most of your projects with the free version anyway as the
paid version is pretty expensive...

-Steve

--- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, Jack Smith <Jack.Smith@...> wrote:
>
> You might wish to look at DipTrace. There's a free version for small
> jobs and it's much easier to use than Eagle. Eagle seems to ignore the
> standard Windows conventions to a distressing degree, while DipTrace
> follows the normal Windows practices for copy, paste, etc
>
> DipTrace will import Eagle footprint libraries, by the way.
>
> Jack
>
>
> Michael V wrote:
> >
> >
> > I also like the simplicity of ExpressPCB, and I do have Eagle loaded
> > in my computer too. Eagle seems hard to learn; whereas with
> > ExpressPCB, it is very straightforward.
> >
> > Once you have your design done, you can pay ExpressPCB some money to
> > get the gerbers, and now you can go anywhere.
> >
> > I really don't mind the few hundred dollars worth of setup charges,
> > since that is just a fraction of how much we sell our products for.
> > You get free layout software, but pay for it every time you have
> > boards made. What I do hate is that they don't offer bottom side
> > silkscreen!
> >
> > Which leads me to another question: If I get the gerbers from
> > ExpressPCB, can I simply use a gerber editor to add my reference
> > designators on the bottom silkscreen layer?
> >
> > --- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:expresspcb%40yahoogroups.com>, "timothy.gilmore"
> > <gilmoret@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have been using ExpressPCB and ExpressSCH for a few years now and
> > had some PCB's made. However, I always thought they were expensive to
> > have done and this is just what it is. Then I started thinking about
> > this as I have a new project with 6 larger RGB LED matrixes which
> > would take up a fair amount of surface area. To get these boards made
> > would run $128 for 2. Another forum I belong to has a guy that uses
> > Eagle and only pays $1-$3 or so per board. Yea it probably is smaller
> > and he he get's about 10 of them or so. I am looking at redesigning a
> > board I see another China based company sells for $12 that my cost
> > would be 5-10 times that amount. How can I compete with that?
> > >
> > > I tried Eagle mainly for their Autorouting feature but found it
> > difficult to learn but may with time.
> > >
> > > Is this common to spend so much for PCB's with ExpressPCB? I don't
> > think it should be.
> > >
> >
> >
>

The problem with any quality PCB is that the setup costs are high. I find that
the breakpoint with ExpressPCB is about 100 boards. When you purchase two then
they are quire expensive but when you buy 100 you may get them for around $8
each. As you go more than 100 boards the savings gets less and less. For
building a prototype you can get boards with no silk screen or solder mask to
save some money. You can also save some money if you can fit your project to one
of their standard sized boards. I've compared Express PCB with several local
production houses and for a realtivly simple project you can't beat ExpressPCB
for good quality boards.

One thing to consider is whether or not you are ordering in bulk or not. You can
turn a $45 board into a $4 board if you order around 1000 of them. Also, how
many layers are you using and are you using silk screening? That increases the
board cost.

It's been with my experience that Eagle typically generates gerber files which
MANY websites accept for manufacturing your boards. From what I can tell, a 2
layer board is more expensive on a majority of these sites than with
ExpressPCB's 2 layer boards. 4 layer boards tend to vary dramatically. It all
depends on the size though. However, some sites like BatchPCB can be more
affordable and can include the silk screening for you at a fixed rate per square
inch. I haven't experimented with that site a lot though. You need to do some
shopping and see what works best for you.

--- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, "timothy.gilmore" <gilmoret@...> wrote:
>
> I have been using ExpressPCB and ExpressSCH for a few years now and had some
PCB's made. However, I always thought they were expensive to have done and this
is just what it is. Then I started thinking about this as I have a new project
with 6 larger RGB LED matrixes which would take up a fair amount of surface
area. To get these boards made would run $128 for 2. Another forum I belong to
has a guy that uses Eagle and only pays $1-$3 or so per board. Yea it probably
is smaller and he he get's about 10 of them or so. I am looking at redesigning a
board I see another China based company sells for $12 that my cost would be 5-10
times that amount. How can I compete with that?
>
> I tried Eagle mainly for their Autorouting feature but found it difficult to
learn but may with time.
>
> Is this common to spend so much for PCB's with ExpressPCB? I don't think it
should be.
>

You might wish to look at DipTrace. There's a free version for small
jobs and it's much easier to use than Eagle. Eagle seems to ignore the
standard Windows conventions to a distressing degree, while DipTrace
follows the normal Windows practices for copy, paste, etc

DipTrace will import Eagle footprint libraries, by the way.

Jack


Michael V wrote:
>
>
> I also like the simplicity of ExpressPCB, and I do have Eagle loaded
> in my computer too. Eagle seems hard to learn; whereas with
> ExpressPCB, it is very straightforward.
>
> Once you have your design done, you can pay ExpressPCB some money to
> get the gerbers, and now you can go anywhere.
>
> I really don't mind the few hundred dollars worth of setup charges,
> since that is just a fraction of how much we sell our products for.
> You get free layout software, but pay for it every time you have
> boards made. What I do hate is that they don't offer bottom side
> silkscreen!
>
> Which leads me to another question: If I get the gerbers from
> ExpressPCB, can I simply use a gerber editor to add my reference
> designators on the bottom silkscreen layer?
>
> --- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:expresspcb%40yahoogroups.com>, "timothy.gilmore"
> <gilmoret@...> wrote:
> >
> > I have been using ExpressPCB and ExpressSCH for a few years now and
> had some PCB's made. However, I always thought they were expensive to
> have done and this is just what it is. Then I started thinking about
> this as I have a new project with 6 larger RGB LED matrixes which
> would take up a fair amount of surface area. To get these boards made
> would run $128 for 2. Another forum I belong to has a guy that uses
> Eagle and only pays $1-$3 or so per board. Yea it probably is smaller
> and he he get's about 10 of them or so. I am looking at redesigning a
> board I see another China based company sells for $12 that my cost
> would be 5-10 times that amount. How can I compete with that?
> >
> > I tried Eagle mainly for their Autorouting feature but found it
> difficult to learn but may with time.
> >
> > Is this common to spend so much for PCB's with ExpressPCB? I don't
> think it should be.
> >
>
>

I also like the simplicity of ExpressPCB, and I do have Eagle loaded in my
computer too. Eagle seems hard to learn; whereas with ExpressPCB, it is very
straightforward.

Once you have your design done, you can pay ExpressPCB some money to get the
gerbers, and now you can go anywhere.

I really don't mind the few hundred dollars worth of setup charges, since that
is just a fraction of how much we sell our products for. You get free layout
software, but pay for it every time you have boards made. What I do hate is that
they don't offer bottom side silkscreen!

Which leads me to another question: If I get the gerbers from ExpressPCB, can I
simply use a gerber editor to add my reference designators on the bottom
silkscreen layer?



--- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, "timothy.gilmore" <gilmoret@...> wrote:
>
> I have been using ExpressPCB and ExpressSCH for a few years now and had some
PCB's made. However, I always thought they were expensive to have done and this
is just what it is. Then I started thinking about this as I have a new project
with 6 larger RGB LED matrixes which would take up a fair amount of surface
area. To get these boards made would run $128 for 2. Another forum I belong to
has a guy that uses Eagle and only pays $1-$3 or so per board. Yea it probably
is smaller and he he get's about 10 of them or so. I am looking at redesigning a
board I see another China based company sells for $12 that my cost would be 5-10
times that amount. How can I compete with that?
>
> I tried Eagle mainly for their Autorouting feature but found it difficult to
learn but may with time.
>
> Is this common to spend so much for PCB's with ExpressPCB? I don't think it
should be.
>

I have been using ExpressPCB and ExpressSCH for a few years now and had some
PCB's made. However, I always thought they were expensive to have done and this
is just what it is. Then I started thinking about this as I have a new project
with 6 larger RGB LED matrixes which would take up a fair amount of surface
area. To get these boards made would run $128 for 2. Another forum I belong to
has a guy that uses Eagle and only pays $1-$3 or so per board. Yea it probably
is smaller and he he get's about 10 of them or so. I am looking at redesigning a
board I see another China based company sells for $12 that my cost would be 5-10
times that amount. How can I compete with that?

I tried Eagle mainly for their Autorouting feature but found it difficult to
learn but may with time.

Is this common to spend so much for PCB's with ExpressPCB? I don't think it
should be.

Perfect!!  Thank you so very much.

Why couldn't I find that???

73 de Ken H.

--- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, "brianbek1981" <brianbek1981@...> wrote:
>
> Have you tried right clicking on the via and selecting 'Top Layer Pad Shape'
or 'Bottom Layer Pad Shape' (and inner layers as well) menus? From there you can
connect the via solid or using a thermal.
>
>
> --- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, "sailingto" <sailingtoo@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello All, I'm a newbie here, and a newbie with ExpressPCB.  I've done a
search for Grounded via holes and didn't find anything so I joined hoping I
could ask the question here.
> >
> > Using ExpressPCB V7.0.1 I have tried to put a via (hole thru connecting to
both sides) and would like this to connect to the ground plane.  Each via I put
automatically puts clearance around the via hole so it is not connected to the
ground plane.  If inserted to a trace the hole works nicely.  My work-around has
been to put a wide trace on top of the ground plane, click properties and put
"Zero clearance, allow trace to connect to plane".  This works, but awkward - is
there a better way?
> >
> > Thanks to all for any suggestions and help - this program is really neat -
I'm learning to like it as one of the best around.
> >
> > 73 de Ken H>
> >
>

Have you tried right clicking on the via and selecting 'Top Layer Pad Shape' or
'Bottom Layer Pad Shape' (and inner layers as well) menus? From there you can
connect the via solid or using a thermal.


--- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, "sailingto" <sailingtoo@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All, I'm a newbie here, and a newbie with ExpressPCB.  I've done a
search for Grounded via holes and didn't find anything so I joined hoping I
could ask the question here.
>
> Using ExpressPCB V7.0.1 I have tried to put a via (hole thru connecting to
both sides) and would like this to connect to the ground plane.  Each via I put
automatically puts clearance around the via hole so it is not connected to the
ground plane.  If inserted to a trace the hole works nicely.  My work-around has
been to put a wide trace on top of the ground plane, click properties and put
"Zero clearance, allow trace to connect to plane".  This works, but awkward - is
there a better way?
>
> Thanks to all for any suggestions and help - this program is really neat - I'm
learning to like it as one of the best around.
>
> 73 de Ken H>
>

Hello All, I'm a newbie here, and a newbie with ExpressPCB.  I've done a search
for Grounded via holes and didn't find anything so I joined hoping I could ask
the question here.

Using ExpressPCB V7.0.1 I have tried to put a via (hole thru connecting to both
sides) and would like this to connect to the ground plane.  Each via I put
automatically puts clearance around the via hole so it is not connected to the
ground plane.  If inserted to a trace the hole works nicely.  My work-around has
been to put a wide trace on top of the ground plane, click properties and put
"Zero clearance, allow trace to connect to plane".  This works, but awkward - is
there a better way?

Thanks to all for any suggestions and help - this program is really neat - I'm
learning to like it as one of the best around.

73 de Ken H>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the expresspcb
group.

   File        : /Express_PCB_Custom_components.zip
   Uploaded by : wb4guk <Wb4guk@...>
   Description : Custom parts, Tubes included

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/expresspcb/files/Express_PCB_Custom_components.zip

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/general.htmlfiles

Regards,

wb4guk <Wb4guk@...>

Attached is a zip file that has tube symbols  and PCB parts. I don't know
where I got it.

Dan Thompson in Bourbon County Kentucky


In a message dated 10/14/2009 8:03:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
gtbecker@... writes:




> ... vacuum tube symbols...

There was a long thread about tubes  awhile ago, but I don't think anyone
produced any components. Still, the  mechanical dimensions of PCB-mount
sockets are available, I suspect, so  you could make your own components
pretty easily.

Tom







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> ... vacuum tube symbols...

There was a long thread about tubes awhile ago, but I don't think anyone
produced any components.  Still, the mechanical dimensions of PCB-mount
sockets are available, I suspect, so you could make your own components
pretty easily.


Tom

Can you tell me where I can find the vacuum tube symbols for ExpressSCM Thanks

--- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, "twostrokeamp" <twostrokeamp@...> wrote:
>
> I understand there are vacuum tube schematic symbols available for
> Express SCH in this group.  Can anyone direct me to them?
> Thanks
>

I understand there are vacuum tube schematic symbols available for
Express SCH in this group.  Can anyone direct me to them?
Thanks

Hi Dave

Send me a copy of your schematic and I will send you a price for schematic and
PCB layout

Ed Crenshaw

--- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, "davemynatt" <dave@...> wrote:
>
> I have a hand-drawn schematic and need it rendered for ExpressPCB to make me a
board. Anyone do that final step?
>
> Dave
> KA0SWT
>

--- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, "davemynatt" <dave@...> wrote:
>
> I have a hand-drawn schematic and need it rendered for ExpressPCB to make me a
board. Anyone do that final step?
>
> Dave
> KA0SWT
>

Dave,

I do this for a living - if you can fax me the schematic (I will keep it
confidential) I can estimate what it would cost. My fax number is 540-989-1595
(you can leave a message at that number, too).

Regards,

Roger Bennison

I have a hand-drawn schematic and need it rendered for ExpressPCB to make me a
board. Anyone do that final step?

Dave
KA0SWT

--- In expresspcb@yahoogroups.com, "vijay_1988pune" <vijay88pune@...> wrote:
>
> hi people
> can any one of you please provide me the footprint as well as the schematic
diagram for the TQFP-64 package of at90can128 from ATMEL
>
> thanks and regards
> Vijay
>

Vijay;  I see from the AT90can128 datasheet that the pin spacing (pitch) is is
0.8 mm and the row to row pin spacing is 16.0 mm.  In the PCB library is a
component called "SMT QFP - 0.8mm - 64 pin"  If I am correct, that package
should work for you.  That just leaves the schematic part to build.

Good luck;
Joe C.

All:

For any who need I have uploaded a generic schematic symbol for XILINX Spartan
3E 100k/250K/500k FPGAs in the 100 pin QFP package. This is in multiple parts. I
have each bank separate as well as power and ground along with misc sections.

uploaded it into IC, Programmable Logic folder

enjoy
james

Oh, come on Vic...  He was just asking if anybody had already done the work
and would be willing to share...

Surely you'd do the same wouldn't you?  I mean why reinvent the wheel?

73, Pat K7KR

Sri, Vijay - I have not looked at this particular ATMEL package or I would
have freely helped...


----- Original Message -----
From: "Vic Fraenckel" <windswaytoo@...>
To: <expresspcb@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:30
Subject: [expresspcb] Re:atmel at90can128


> Vijay wrote:
> >can any one of you please provide me the footprint as well as the
> schematic diagram for the TQFP-64 package of at90can128 from >ATMEL
>
> Vijay,
>
> This might be an excellent time for you to learn how to do this for
> yourself! Just a thought.
>
> Vic
>
> Vic Fraenckel
> KC2GUI
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>