Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
extremeprogramming · Extreme Programming
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Show off your group to the world. Share a photo of your group with us.

Best of Y! Groups

   Check them out and nominate your group.
Having problems with message search? Fill out this form to ensure your group is one of the first to be migrated to the new message search system.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
Sizing projects from a budget point-of-view   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #106142 of 152312 |
RE: [XP] Sizing projects from a budget point-of-view

My general strategy is to write the stories, estimate them, and add them up.
What happens next depends on what the estimate will be used for. If I am
making a fixed-price, fixed-scope bid I would like to have at least a little
of the system implemented before making a bid. If the date is fixed, there
is likely to be a fair amount of negotiation over the stories (splitting
stories, picking cheaper infrastructure to reduce estimates, picking simpler
stories). In any case, I would include slack in the schedule so I could make
honestly confident estimates.

Kent Beck
Three Rivers Institute

> -----Original Message-----
> From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Jonathan Rasmusson
> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 2:56 PM
> To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [XP] Sizing projects from a budget point-of-view
>
> Hi all,
>
> How does XP recommmend sizing projects from a budgeting point-of-view?
>
> After coming up with high level stories for the project (say
> 100 days),
> do you then take that number, estimate a team velocity, pick a date,
> and hence the budget?
>
> i.e. I am the customer, I am asking you the XP team for how much this
> project is going to cost. Is the number 100 days? Ok thats
> I will get
> the budget setup for 100 days.
>
> Or do you add in some contingency to the number?
> For example add 10% for this, 20% for that, and call the date 130 days
> (ala more traditional forms of project estimation).




Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:35 am

kentlbeck
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email

Forward
Message #106142 of 152312 |
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

Hi all, How does XP recommmend sizing projects from a budgeting point-of-view? After coming up with high level stories for the project (say 100 days), do you...
Jonathan Rasmusson
rasmus4200
Offline Send Email
Apr 17, 2005
9:56 pm

... How agile is your organization's budgeting? For example, suppose you say something like: "We have a great idea, and we'd like four programmers for 3-5...
William Pietri
william_pietri
Offline Send Email
Apr 17, 2005
11:56 pm

As the customer, would you rather hear the traditional story (100 days really mean 130 days, but still no guarantee of a working system after 130 days), or: -...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
Offline Send Email
Apr 18, 2005
3:16 am

Yes that all makes sense to me. What I am wondering is how XP adds in contingency for all the things that traditional project managers do when they come up...
Jonathan Rasmusson
rasmus4200
Offline Send Email
Apr 18, 2005
9:34 am

... What I used to do was to have the team estimate in "perfect engineering days", or what I sometimes call "bar time". "If the b*st*rds would leave me alone,...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Offline Send Email
Apr 18, 2005
6:54 pm

Jonathan, Your question seems to be about risk management, more than about "sizing" as such. ... One way to do that would be to allow for training at the start...
Laurent Bossavit
morendilfoo
Offline Send Email
Apr 18, 2005
7:34 pm

Any rules of thumb on how you go about quantifying the amount of slack? In this context is slack another word for contingency? Jonathan ... them up. ... I am ...
Jonathan Rasmusson
rasmus4200
Offline Send Email
Apr 18, 2005
9:20 am

Jonathan, When I make an estimate, I give an answer I'm am comfortable committing to. I assume that my customer wants to know when the story will be done, not ...
Kent Beck
kentlbeck
Offline Send Email
Apr 18, 2005
10:40 pm

Probably more the latter. They don't really care what "methodology" is used to deliver the software. They just want it delivered and they need an estimate of...
Jonathan Rasmusson
rasmus4200
Offline Send Email
Apr 18, 2005
9:24 am

... Do they also know *what* they want delivered, in such detail that it can be programmed? An example: a client just wants a report function. You program it,...
Willem Bogaerts
toetah2000
Offline Send Email
Apr 18, 2005
9:37 am

... Got it. The interface between an agile team and a non-agile organization can be difficult. You may have to do a fair bit of translation as you take...
William Pietri
william_pietri
Offline Send Email
Apr 18, 2005
3:29 pm

... <william@s...> wrote: ... The team is not defined yet. ... About 1/2 the team has done XP before ... Yes ... Assume no ... 4 ... 80% ... 10%...
Jonathan Rasmusson
rasmus4200
Offline Send Email
Apr 20, 2005
12:05 pm

We follow a strategy as follows for estimation. We list down all the UserStories (just the list, prioritize them in consultation with the client) Then what we...
Sarath Kummamuru
kcsarath
Offline Send Email
Apr 18, 2005
9:49 am

Apologies - I think I failed to describe some context with regards to the question I was asking. How do you present (set expectations with customers) before...
Jonathan Rasmusson
rasmus4200
Offline Send Email
Apr 20, 2005
10:14 pm

Jonathan, My goal is to make commitments and build trust. How I proceed depends on how long I have. If asked to give an answer in one day, I would likely look...
Kent Beck
kentlbeck
Offline Send Email
Apr 22, 2005
6:59 am

Until you have a good rapport with your customers backed by a proven track record, you may have to estimate the same way you did for waterfall development,...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
Offline Send Email
Apr 20, 2005
11:48 pm

My general strategy is to write the stories, estimate them, and add them up. What happens next depends on what the estimate will be used for. If I am making a...
Kent Beck
kentlbeck
Offline Send Email
Apr 18, 2005
7:35 am

... Team velocity can't be used for initial effort estimations since it is 0 in fact :) As I understand XP, it says nothing about initial estimates. I use...
Michael Dubakov
fire_falcon_...
Offline Send Email
Apr 18, 2005
3:36 pm
Advanced

Copyright © 2009 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help