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The amazing misunderstanding of XP   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #116776 of 152288 |
Re: Hiring : was Re: [XP] The amazing misunderstanding of XP

Here is how our interview process goes:

1. HR phone screen
2. Software Development Directors phone screen
3. Onsite interviews with the Software Development Directors
4. Onsite interviews with two XP teams
5. Lunch with our VP and XP Coach
6. Pairing in with one or two XP teams

Steps 1 - 4 all include a scripted set of interview questions. By the time we
get to step 6, we know if we are going to make an offer.

Step 6 is mostly about letting the candidate learn about us and what it is like
to work in a large open space with 5 XP teams. We get rarely get any value
from the pairing session.

Gary Brown



Quoting geoffrey_slinker <geoffrey_slinker@...>:

> --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Larry Brunelle
> <brunelle@i...> wrote:
> >
> > Steven Gordon wrote:
> > > I wonder how much of the code produced by pairing with candidates
> could
> > > actually be leveraged. Would there be an obligation to pay the
> candidate
> > > for an hour of work if the code developed in the pairing session was
> > > actually used?
> >
> > You bring up an interesting point. Several corollary
> > questions suggest themselves.
> > o Would some employers use this approach in bad faith
> > to gain expertise into the organization?
>
> Yes, anything is possible.
>
> 1) I wouldn't let a candidate into the real system. There are two many
> reasons not to let them in. (e.g. if you system stores customer
> information then that is confidential to employees only).
>
> 2) It seems easy enough to come up with "interview projects" that are
> similar to the work at hand. The interview project can start at any
> point, that is you could cover the tasks necessary at project
> conception or the design of an existing project, what ever you want.
>
> 3) If a candidate were to write code that was useful to the company
> (and since the company is hiring) then it would be expected that the
> person be hired. If not, delete the code and be done with it. If the
> candidate came up with a design that you want to use, then hire the
> person because the candidate came up with something your team couldn't
> and since you were hiring it is the right thing to do. Otherwise, I say
> you have to forget it and let it go. With those two options I feel most
> will hire and hiring is the best thing IMO.
>
> 4) Do the "team" fit test before you do the technical test. It is more
> important to match team fit for most projects. (some projects need a
> person that is expert in some special branch of technology and it
> doesn't matter if they work well in a larger team.) If you do the team
> fit tests first then when you get to the technical test and someone
> creates something you would like to own it is easy, hire them.
>
> Geoff
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@eGroups.com
>
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>
> ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>






Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:09 pm

gb70840
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Message #116776 of 152288 |
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... could ... candidate ... Yes, anything is possible. 1) I wouldn't let a candidate into the real system. There are two many reasons not to let them in. (e.g....
geoffrey_slinker
geoffrey_sli...
Online Now Send Email
Jan 30, 2006
4:26 am

Here is how our interview process goes: 1. HR phone screen 2. Software Development Directors phone screen 3. Onsite interviews with the Software Development...
glbrown@...
gb70840
Offline Send Email
Jan 30, 2006
1:10 pm

... Who influences the decision most? The XP teams he/she has to work with or the VP ? -d...
David H.
bitchauctioneer
Offline Send Email
Jan 30, 2006
1:39 pm

... The XP teams make the final hiring decision. Lunch with our VP is mainly about selling the candidate on our company, and talking about future directions. ...
glbrown@...
gb70840
Offline Send Email
Jan 30, 2006
2:24 pm

... Gary, How is it like having 5 XP teams in the same work area? How do you manage to keep the noise level acceptable? I ask because I worked in a place where...
Luiz Esmiralha
lesmiralha
Offline Send Email
Jan 30, 2006
3:07 pm

... It really isn't a problem. The teams have learned to speak softly when pairing. Larger team discussions usually move to a conference room. We also have a...
glbrown@...
gb70840
Offline Send Email
Jan 30, 2006
4:23 pm

... How do you deal with the lack of wall space to put graphs, story cards, taskings, sketches of ideas, et cetera on? Presumably, each group is missing the...
Susan Davis
futabachan
Offline Send Email
Feb 1, 2006
2:26 am

... Each team has a 4' x 6' rolling white board on one side with cork board on the other side, plus we have a couple of spares when needed. Some of the teams...
glbrown@...
gb70840
Offline Send Email
Feb 1, 2006
3:20 am

... We have approximately four teams in the same physical area. You are right, wall space is always at a premium. We use a couple of techniques. We have a...
Doug Swartz
gruverguy
Offline Send Email
Feb 1, 2006
4:27 am

... http://fairlygoodpractices.com/rolling.htm for photos of the whiteboards. A shot of our old room (same theory) can be found at ...
Ken Boucher
bonsai1966
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Feb 1, 2006
4:58 am

I was under the impression that you have 5 XP pairs in the same room (i.e. 10 people). Do you really have 5 XP teams in the same room? I would take that to...
Jerred Cook
jerred345
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Jan 30, 2006
5:03 pm

... It really is 5 XP teams. 44 developers when all are present. Besides the occasional celebratory outburst, the individual conversations just fade into the...
glbrown@...
gb70840
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Jan 30, 2006
5:33 pm

Any way you could send a picture of this space so we can see how it looks? Perhaps post them to the files area for this group. -Alex On 01 30 2006 10:33 AM,...
Alex Pukinskis
alexpukinskis
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Jan 30, 2006
5:51 pm

... From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com [mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ken Boucher Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:58 PM To:...
Bob Bertolatus
rider714
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Feb 1, 2006
8:46 pm

... Prepare a short written agreement for the applicant to sign. Steve...
Steve Bate
noetic8
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Jan 30, 2006
6:44 am

... could ... candidate ... It wasn't pair programming, but in the last job I had, I later found my interview test code in the production system. I looked at...
whojgalt04
Offline Send Email
Feb 7, 2006
7:33 pm

Sounds like a good idea, but as someone pointed out, the legal, ethical, and corporate issues could get pretty sticky. Also, my clients are often not in those...
Jeff Langr
jlangr
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Jan 30, 2006
5:32 pm

The open source idea would be a good way to be more constructive and less artificial. Netmeeting or other distributed means is not ideal, but it should still ...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
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Jan 30, 2006
6:12 pm

Hi, Everybody, The thread about asking someone to pair as part of an interview has me wondering. What are people looking for when they want to experience...
Kay A. Pentecost
tranzpupy
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Jan 30, 2006
7:45 pm

... In our case, it was mainly about fitting in, did the candidate gel with is pair, was he happy pairing or was it hard? This works both ways, if the...
Ian Collins
masumanz
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Jan 30, 2006
8:14 pm

... pairing? ... as part ... Or is ... In my experience, both. There's a great deal you can learn about someone's problem solving abiltities, code abilities,...
Keith Braithwaite
keithwdssg
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Jan 31, 2006
11:09 am

... I'm looking for the following: 1) Compatibility 2) Confidence without cockiness. 3) How they ask questions 4) Can they admit there's something they don't...
Ken Boucher
bonsai1966
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Jan 31, 2006
6:34 pm

... First, Ken its good to see your alive and well. I haven't noticed many posts from you. Compatibility is extremely important. Here is a snippet from one of...
geoffrey_slinker
geoffrey_sli...
Online Now Send Email
Feb 1, 2006
6:43 pm

... pairing? I ran a pair programming session in December as part of an interview series. Dev candidates for Thoughtworks are required to write a bit of code...
Elizabeth Keogh
deathbypeaches
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Feb 3, 2006
4:42 pm

... htmlparser (on sourceforge) has loads of unit tests -- some good, some not so good. I've found it to be a useful example project, as most people can...
Joshua Kerievsky
jlk112067
Offline Send Email
Jan 30, 2006
10:24 pm

... I don't know if it's "good" unit test coverage, but Jena has a fair few unit tests. (9682 dynamic tests at the last run I have here; but some of those are...
Chris Dollin
eccentric_he...
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Feb 1, 2006
10:07 am

Hi, Paul, ... <snip> I think pairing is a great way to find out a lot about a candidate in little time. Judging from my experience at user groups and code...
Kay A. Pentecost
tranzpupy
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Jan 29, 2006
8:11 pm

... I agree. I interviewed with a company that, after requiring a lengthy, essay- style application, 2 1-hour+ phone interviews and a 4-hour programming test,...
Daryl Richter
n_going_zax
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Jan 30, 2006
2:15 pm

... Well, maybe. I went through a long hiring process recently and found it somewhat disrespectful due to wasting my time (not so much clock time as calendar...
Brian Slesinsky
skybrian
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Jan 31, 2006
2:14 am

... I'm with you here. I wasn't trying to convey that it was an easy decision for me. It seemed like a really interesting company and as I indicated, I was...
Daryl Richter
n_going_zax
Offline Send Email
Jan 31, 2006
2:07 pm
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