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"Agile Imposition is a Very Red Flag" - discuss   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #123257 of 152250 |
I thought some members of this list might be interested in this item,
which I posted today, if you've not already seen it on Fowler's own site:

http://www.infoq.com/news/imposed-mandated-agile-fowler

Martin Fowler says: "Agile Imposition is a Very Red Flag"

Martin Fowler, one of the original creators of the Agile Manifesto in
2001, reflected last week on reports of Agile process being imposed on
teams from the outside. He states his reaction succinctly: "Imposing a
process on a team is completely opposed to the principles of agile
software, and has been since its inception."

This follows up on the "Good Agile, Bad Agile" item of last week.
http://www.infoq.com/news/yegge-good-bad-agile

deb

--
Deborah Hartmann
Agile Community Editor
www.InfoQ.com









Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:28 pm

debhart9
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I thought some members of this list might be interested in this item, which I posted today, if you've not already seen it on Fowler's own site: ...
Deb
debhart9
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Oct 10, 2006
1:31 pm

What Martin doesn't address in his message is what management *can* do. All he says is that they *can't* impose a process. I think my employers have the right...
Kent Beck
kentlbeck
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Oct 11, 2006
8:47 pm

Hi Kent, My impression (which may be wrong) is that there is a lack of balance in your discussion. Reading it, sounds like the power game comes from the...
Victor
vmgoldberg2
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Oct 11, 2006
11:50 pm

Victor, You're right--I wasn't trying to present a balanced discussion. I was responding to what I saw as flaws in the original post--that only programmers can...
Kent Beck
kentlbeck
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Oct 13, 2006
5:45 am

Hi Kent, all, ... I'm not good at staying out of the sandbox either. But I've gotten better at getting out once I notice I'm in. That's progress. I'm...
Dale Emery
dalehemery
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Oct 14, 2006
12:20 am

Hello, Dale, all. Not bad at all for "pre-thought", Dale! I'm of a mind to riff on your thoughts. Below. On Friday, October 13, 2006, ... It's curious ... I...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
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Oct 14, 2006
1:42 am

Hi Ron, ... Ooops. You've interpreted "pre-thought" too generously. I didn't mean to say that these things just popped into my head. My half-baked ideas...
Dale Emery
dalehemery
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Oct 14, 2006
7:32 am

Hello, Dale. Interesting ... On Saturday, October 14, 2006, at ... Well, you deny on the one hand any notion of "rightness", and on the other hand call these...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
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Oct 14, 2006
11:14 am

... And if we add Context to the mix, we get congruence. Very nice! -- ... * George Dinwiddie * gdinwiddie@... Software...
George Dinwiddie
gdinwiddie
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Oct 18, 2006
2:37 am

Hello, Kent. Thanks for this contribution. I have some questions, more invitations to clarify your expression than actual objections. Again: I may seem to be...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
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Oct 12, 2006
2:03 am

Ron, My point is that in all cases I can choose my response. If I receive an email that says, "Starting Monday you will be an Extreme Programmer," I choose how...
Kent Beck
kentlbeck
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Oct 13, 2006
5:43 am

Hello, Kent. Total agreement. On Thursday, October 12, 2006, at ... Yes, absolutely. We have the ability to lead with any response available to us. I generally...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
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Oct 13, 2006
9:52 am

... I don't think that. I believe I have the right to say that *I* will work in an Agile way. I have the right not to take jobs that won't let me, and I have...
Bill Caputo
logosity
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Oct 12, 2006
4:27 am

I think this is part of a bigger problem that I call 'the death of locality' when I talk about it with friends. It just seems to work better when people...
Michael Feathers
mfeathers256
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Oct 12, 2006
2:41 pm

Michael, There are certainly some actions and signals that are are suicidal in political enviroments. While I agree with your general point, in this particular...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
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Oct 12, 2006
4:07 pm

Steven, I don't think any of those things would've been useful. The team had been in death-march mode for a while and they were clearly exhausted. I think,...
Michael Feathers
mfeathers256
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Oct 12, 2006
5:46 pm

Then the lack of anything to do was just an excuse. The real reason to give the team some time off was to recover from a death march. I would call it...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
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Oct 14, 2006
2:55 pm

Yes, we can see it that way, but it's moot. The team didn't take any time off. Ignoring the team for a second, I think that the real issue was the ability of...
Michael Feathers
mfeathers256
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Oct 14, 2006
3:50 pm

Hello, Michael ... On Saturday, October 14, 2006, at 11:44:20 AM, ... I suspect that the specificity of your example masks your general question, which I agree...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
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Oct 14, 2006
4:21 pm

Ron, I think it comes down to bandwidth. Imagine an organization with complete transparency.. there's still an issue of how much information any one person...
Michael Feathers
mfeathers256
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Oct 14, 2006
4:59 pm

Hi Micheal, I don't think that there really can be too much transparency. We recently had a similar problem: we had publicly posted an information radiator,...
Ilja Preuss
ipreussde
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Oct 23, 2006
5:08 pm

... Ilja, I agree with the principle that transparency is better, but I think there are some limits to its utility. In your example, when you released the...
Michael Feathers
mfeathers256
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Oct 24, 2006
9:29 pm

It would be cool if a team can use the power of self-organization to use an agile process, but some people can't agree whether something is a floor wax or a...
Chris Gardner
chris_gardner76
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Oct 12, 2006
1:06 pm

There are a lot of ways for a CEO (or "leadership team") to introduce change. This might be easier when there is a dire threat like the company going under,...
Keith Ray
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Oct 12, 2006
3:40 pm

... Hi, Chris. I agree that people with power can use it to change the situation, but I'm not persuaded that ordering people to be agile would be very...
William Pietri
william_pietri
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Oct 13, 2006
6:14 am

If there is significant resistance by say half, what might be some effective management approaches to sell agile? How long should the agile champions try to...
Chris Gardner
chris_gardner76
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Oct 13, 2006
1:03 pm

Hello, Chris. A question. On Friday, October 13, 2006, at 5:59:16 ... What is management's purpose in "selling agile"? What would they get if they were able to...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
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Oct 13, 2006
2:17 pm

... Perhaps a concrete example will be of use. In my organization, we have about 55 developers working XP style, more or less, on nine teams. Prior to...
Gary Brown
gb70840
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Oct 13, 2006
6:41 pm

Gary, Excellent example. Maybe, management should have made it an invitation, something like: "Everyone is invitied to participate in the future reformation...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
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Oct 13, 2006
7:13 pm
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