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consultant fees for an xp shop?   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #137268 of 152428 |
hi all,

I have friend running his own consulting company who is thinking about
giving xp a try since they are almost doing it naturally. they code
in pairs, do tdd, and their customers come in on site a few times a
week.

his question he has for me is that they've been doing hourly rates,
but he wonders if there is a charging system that fits more with xp.

my suggestion is to maybe charge for each feature, maybe put a price
on each unițwhich would give clients a realistic choice because each
feature would have a cost attached.

anyhow, I am assuming there are several consultants lurking on this
list, so what kind of pricing system do you guys use?

thanks,
james


Sun Dec 2, 2007 12:48 am

jay_c_the_man
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Message #137268 of 152428 |
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hi all, I have friend running his own consulting company who is thinking about giving xp a try since they are almost doing it naturally. they code in pairs,...
James Carr
jay_c_the_man
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Dec 2, 2007
12:48 am

Alistair Cockburn has a nice overview over different contract models in an Agile context: http://alistair.cockburn.us/index.php/Agile_contracts Cheers, Ilja...
Ilja Preuss
ipreussde
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Dec 2, 2007
10:15 am

Dear James, Hourly rates are a simple, accountable, and well-understood way of charging for XP-related services. I am generally satisfied with the results when...
Kent Beck
kentlbeck
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Dec 6, 2007
3:13 pm

Coupele of very interesting responses. Can I explore a couple of them a little more? (comments below) ... charging ... when I ... consultant's ... pricing. ......
Simon Jones
simontcb
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Dec 6, 2007
3:47 pm

Dear Simon, I do love synchronicity. I was reading the McKinsey Quarterly (http://www.mckinseyquarterly.com/Information_Technology/Applications/Eight_ ...
Kent Beck
kentlbeck
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Dec 10, 2007
2:59 pm

... Wow, Kent. I *am* impressed with your courage. My gut reaction is a fear that charging only for "successfully trained students" might misalign my...
George Dinwiddie
gdinwiddie
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Dec 6, 2007
4:36 pm

Hi George, ... One thing you can easily do is try a hybrid model. Set your training fee to 90% of the usual and a 10% bonus to be contingent on a later ...
Laurent Bossavit
morendilfoo
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Dec 6, 2007
5:01 pm

... model ... Good idea, but I'm still unclear as to how you evaluate effectiveness in an unambiguous form that can be expressed contractually? And over what...
Simon Jones
simontcb
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Dec 6, 2007
5:22 pm

The other part that needs trust is that you have an asymmetric relationship with most any company. Their training budget is incidental to their total turnover,...
Steve Freeman
smg_freeman
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Dec 6, 2007
6:19 pm

... I would fear that this model motivates my client to encourage its people to make it look like they don't do TDD, in order to lower the price. In what...
J. B. Rainsberger
nails762
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Dec 11, 2007
4:55 am

This is getting interesting... I like the courage others have in pricing a feature. I have avoided this my entire adult life after a very bad experience of...
captainkirk16384
captainkirk1...
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Dec 11, 2007
3:51 pm

Hello, captainkirk16384. On Tuesday, December 11, 2007, at 9:44:25 ... Yes. As I understand XP, it is important for the business people to consider the value...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
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Dec 11, 2007
5:04 pm

... It is a little more nuanced than this. I want one click ordering and that may add value to me of (say) $100,000 a year. I want to capture as much of that...
Peter Bell
freshstartsw
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Dec 11, 2007
8:04 pm

Joe, My experience is that 19 out of 20 people I do business with are honest and could be trusted with a cooperative pay-for-value contract. The other 1 seems...
Kent Beck
kentlbeck
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Dec 11, 2007
5:48 pm

... I'd like to make sure I'm reading this correctly...are you saying that no visible conflict is a warning sign? I think it might be the case that there's...
Pat Maddox
burritoooboy
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Dec 12, 2007
3:43 am

Pat, Exactly--I have learned to regard the lack of visible conflict as a warning sign that trust is not present. When I'm aware of this I can work to build ...
Kent Beck
kentlbeck
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Dec 17, 2007
5:04 pm

... Joe, that was my initial thought. But since I'm willing to offer a money-back guarantee if not satisfied, I don't think that's really what bothers me. ...
George Dinwiddie
gdinwiddie
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Dec 13, 2007
12:15 am

Hi, James! ... I'm strictly a by-the-hour guy for most work, although if I'm particularly impressed with a client I'll sometimes take a piece of the action in...
William Pietri
william_pietri
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Dec 7, 2007
12:54 am

... pricing Indeed. And it was not altogether successful. One of the key things about making this model work is informing the client before you start ...
Tobias Mayer
tobiasgmayer
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Dec 11, 2007
12:40 am

... things ... start ... requirement ... environment, ... of ... to ... of the ... of ... make it ... altogether and ... time. ... theirs. ... before ... ...
Simon Jones
simontcb
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Dec 11, 2007
10:05 am

Hi Simon, I have responded to some of your points below... ... The key here is to keep stories very small. Smaller stories are easier to estimate and don't...
Tobias Mayer
tobiasgmayer
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Dec 12, 2007
4:34 am

Hi Tobias, Hope you don't mind if I respond to both your comments and those of the other posts in the same place:) This thread has been very interesting for...
Simon Jones
simontcb
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Dec 12, 2007
10:33 am

Hi Simon, You are right. There is essentially no difference between price-per-feature and fixed price. Except this: the fixed prices are much, much smaller....
Tobias Mayer
tobiasgmayer
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Dec 12, 2007
12:21 pm

... per-feature and fixed price. Except this: the fixed prices are much, much smaller. I am all in favor of fixing prices ahead of time, the difficulty is...
Simon Jones
simontcb
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Dec 12, 2007
12:37 pm

... [snip] My experience of the odds is better than 9/10. And I'm _much_ less famous than Kent :-) Adrian...
Adrian Howard
ajh65537
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Dec 13, 2007
2:36 pm

Simon, Others have answered much of your question so I'll just say that my reputation doesn't seem to afford me any special privileges as a business person....
Kent Beck
kentlbeck
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Dec 17, 2007
5:04 pm

Ičve been developing applications on a price per feature basis for a number of years now. There are a few experiences I can share: 1. Obviously you need to...
Peter Bell
freshstartsw
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Dec 11, 2007
1:58 pm

Peter, you charge extra when the story is bigger than you'd expected. When a story is half as much work as you estimated, do you give the customer the...
jbrains762@...
nails762
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Dec 13, 2007
12:37 am

... I think it's foolhardy to change your pricing model before you establish a long history of velocity measurements. I would go with time and materials until...
J. B. Rainsberger
nails762
Offline Send Email
Dec 11, 2007
4:53 am
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