Manuel,

+1. I've been imagining myself as a manager while reading this thread
(omoiyari). I wouldn't trust someone who in response to a reasonable request
("So, how much do you get done?") tells me I am asking the wrong question
and that I can't have the data he uses anyway. Lines of code has many
limitations--it's like measuring a factory based on its consumption of raw
materials not on its output. However, I think that numerical measures can be
valuable. For example, with my manager hat on, I'd love to hear that a
roughly equivalent amount of work now takes 20% less time or costs 20% than
it used to. Even if the measurements were that the cycle time or cost has
grown 20%, that's something I can understand and ask intelligent questions
about.

Regards,

Kent Beck
Three Rivers Institute

_____

From: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Manuel Klimek
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:34 PM
To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [XP] Don't let them see our velocity?



Steve,

transparency? I think I'm responsible to make sure that the management knows
whats going on... If I think it's useful and if I trust the management
enough
(perhaps because the management itself is transparent), I'd consider to
communicate some metrics, like velocity, to the management.

Something like an "open hands" pattern: I'm honest, I've got nothing to
hide: look, I even show you by myself.

/Manuel

On Jan 2, 2008 8:40 PM, Steven Gordon <sgordonphd@gmail.
<mailto:sgordonphd%40gmail.com> com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 2, 2008 12:32 PM, John A. De Goes <john@n-brain.
<mailto:john%40n-brain.net> net> wrote:
> >
> > On Jan 2, 2008, at 12:11 PM, Steven Gordon wrote:
> > > Wouldn't the developers have a much better idea than management of
> > > what better tools, processes and working environments be? We are not
> > > factory workers.
> > >
> > Of course, it should be done in collaboration with the developers. But
> > developers don't have the authority to make (most) purchasing
> > decisions, nor to promote and enforce many kinds of processes.
> >
> > For example, at Toyota, employees are encouraged to identify sources
> > of waste, and managers work with them to eliminate or reduce these
> > sources.
>
> John,
>
> So, if management would just listen to what the development teams say
> (and create a working environment where teams are encouraged to admit
> and explore their problems and to recommend what would alleviate those
> problems), why would teams need to create metrics for external
> management?
>
> Teams would only need whatever internal metrics they need to manage
> themselves and diagnose their own problems.
>
> Steve
>
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > John A. De Goes
> > N-BRAIN, Inc.
> > http://www.n- <http://www.n-brain.net> brain.net
> > [n minds are better than n-1]
> >
>

--
http://klimek. <http://klimek.box4.net> box4.net





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