Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
extremeprogramming · Extreme Programming
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Message search is now enhanced, find messages faster. Take it for a spin.

Best of Y! Groups

   Check them out and nominate your group.
Having problems with message search? Fill out this form to ensure your group is one of the first to be migrated to the new message search system.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
Cargo Cult   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #142275 of 152428 |
Matt Heusser has been writing some provocative notes on the
agile-testing list. I thought I'd take one of those as my text
today.

I'm very interested in discussion and feedback on this. I've been
observing what I'll talk about here for a long time.

He wrote:

> If anyone is interested in the long version of this discussion, the
> definitive work is Steve McConnell's "Cargo Cult Software
> Engineering", available on-line here:
>
> http://www.stevemcconnell.com/ieeesoftware/eic10.htm

I don't agree with that whole article but I'd suggest giving it an
open-minded read. I look at it in this light:

McConnell writes about process-imposter and commitment-imposter
organizations, and points out that they are similar in that each
group does poorly because they don't fully understand what they are
doing, whether it is following a process or trying to gain a
hard-working commitment. He says:

Cargo cult software engineering is easy to identify. Cargo cult
software engineers justify their practices by saying, "We’ve
always done it this way in the past," or "our company standards
require us to do it this way"—even when those ways make no sense.
They refuse to acknowledge the tradeoffs involved in either
process-oriented or commitment-oriented development. Both have
strengths and weaknesses. When presented with more effective, new
practices, cargo cult software engineers prefer to stay in their
wooden huts of familiar, comfortable and-not-necessarily-effective
work habits. "Doing the same thing again and again and expecting
different results is a sign of insanity," the old saying goes.
It’s also a sign of cargo cult software engineering.

Now McConnell moves from these observations to a call for increasing
competence through education and training. He points out -- and I
agree -- that more competent people are more likely to succeed.

But while I agree with him on that, my own concerns are a bit
different. Over the past decade+ of doing this, I've seen a lot of
teams who plateau, never attaining the level that they could. And
that's not just my judgment of how good they could be, but their
own, and their management's. I've seen a lot of teams reach a really
good level of performance, and then fall away from the behaviors
that got them there. Even worse, I've seen teams who seem to be
sticking to the practices that got them there, but nonetheless do
not prosper.

I am not entirely sure why this happens, and suppose that different
teams have different reasons. But here are some patterns I've
noticed:

1. The team does its practices as if they were some kind of ritual
that is followed for its own sake. Perhaps they have never
understood why they do them, or perhaps they have forgotten.

2. The team does its practices because it has been told to do the
practices. "That's just the way we work here."

3. The team is under pressure, imposed by management, or
self-imposed from a feeling of urgency, which causes them to
revert to old habits, or to rush the hidden aspects of their work.

Now at first there seems to be no common element here. But I think
there are one, perhaps two.

First, the team may not be doing its practices mindfully. If we want
to increase our skill, we have to think about what we are doing. We
have to do a thing, experience the results, and reflect on them.
This is the Feedback value of XP in action.

Second, the team may not be continually varying their practices and
observing what happens. When we drive, we are always adjusting the
wheel based on what we see. When we drive for performance, we change
our route around the track in small ways, to find what works best.
Again Feedback in action.

So I hypothesize, based on a lot of observation, that teams that
plateau or fall back have not been paying attention to what happens
as their practices vary. There are a number of reasons why they
might not do that. I'll list a few here:

The practices may not be their own but imposed through fiat or
habit.

The practices may not vary, because of habit or external
influence.

The practices may be seen as not important, owing to louder
voices in the organization, who may be calling for more features
and harder work.

It would be necessary to look at a team that wasn't improving, and
to assess openly and honestly what might be getting in their way. It
seems likely that every one of the items above would be happening
with the best of will. Unfortunately, good will is not enough to
provide good results.

Introspection might help. Help from outside might be of value.
Ultimately the team has to examine itself with a cool head and
recognize that they need to change, no matter how good their will
may be, and no matter how well they believe things should work.

To improve, we have to change.

Ron Jeffries
www.XProgramming.com
In times of stress, I like to turn to the wisdom of my Portuguese waitress,
who said: "Olá, meu nome é Marisol e eu serei sua garçonete."
-- after Mark Vaughn, Autoweek.




Mon May 12, 2008 3:01 pm

RonaldEJeffries
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email

Forward
Message #142275 of 152428 |
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

Matt Heusser has been writing some provocative notes on the agile-testing list. I thought I'd take one of those as my text today. I'm very interested in...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Offline Send Email
May 12, 2008
3:04 pm

Hi Ron, I have seen another pattern that potentially prevents a team from reaching higher levels of productivity (I've mentioned it recently in another post): ...
Marta Gonzalez Ferrero
martagf_99
Offline Send Email
May 12, 2008
5:40 pm

... I think it can in fact happen to an XP team. It can happen to anyone, I'd estimate. After all, how many of us going around improving improving improving...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Offline Send Email
May 21, 2008
11:09 pm

Hi Ron, I read Marta differently. Not "improving, improving, improving" for the sake of improving in abstract, but when an opportunity to improve is...
Victor
vmgoldberg2
Offline Send Email
May 22, 2008
12:21 am

Hello, Victor. On Wednesday, May 21, 2008, at 8:20:51 PM, you ... I suspect that the above is a grand oversimplification, verging on some kind of ageism or...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Offline Send Email
May 22, 2008
1:20 am

Hello Ron, I think we are talking about different things. ... I am not talking about the comparison between a hard driving person and a laid back one. I am...
Victor
vmgoldberg2
Offline Send Email
May 22, 2008
1:37 am

Hello, Victor. On Wednesday, May 21, 2008, at 9:36:40 PM, you ... I'm sorry, that went so general that I can't connect it back. Can you describe a case, even...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Offline Send Email
May 22, 2008
1:59 am

... I think it's helpful to follow the train of thought, "Why should the team want to improve its processes?" If, after many successive queries, the answer...
John A. De Goes
jdegoes
Online Now Send Email
May 12, 2008
7:33 pm

Hello, John. Very interesting response. Thanks. ... Yes. I like the notion of asking why many times in this situation. I think it would be enlightening for...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Offline Send Email
May 13, 2008
2:38 pm

... Absolutely. ... This is one example, and there are surely others. ... Now here is where you brought me up against my own notions. I really like it when a...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Offline Send Email
May 13, 2008
3:05 pm

2008/5/12 Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...>: [big snip] ... I can't agree more. What I've seen working very well in practice is an approach where...
Piergiuliano Bossi
pgbossi
Offline Send Email
May 13, 2008
4:36 pm

... From: "Ron Jeffries" <ronjeffries@...> To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [XP] Cargo...
Gary Brown
gb70840
Offline Send Email
May 21, 2008
11:51 pm

... Yes. I feel the same way. But are you really focusing on improvement, or is it more like you are doing various kinds of work, many of them that you find...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Offline Send Email
May 22, 2008
1:04 am

... It should go far beyond improving the code we write. What is really important is continuously improving the tangible value of what we deliver to our...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
Offline Send Email
May 22, 2008
1:16 am

Hello, Steven. On Wednesday, May 21, 2008, at 9:16:00 PM, you ... Yes. Although if we are sharing code and paying attention to defects, this seems unlikely. ...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Offline Send Email
May 22, 2008
2:05 am

Hi Ron, ... I am glad you wrote this. Very important. On the other hand, there should be a very clear understanding between payer and payee on what is the...
Victor
vmgoldberg2
Offline Send Email
May 22, 2008
9:58 am

Hello, Victor. On Thursday, May 22, 2008, at 5:58:40 AM, you ... I have been asking why "should" is used. In this case I have an opinion as to why there...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Offline Send Email
May 22, 2008
11:29 am

... Nice. Is that a Jeffries' original? Regardless, I plan to quote it "early and often". ;) Dave Rooney Mayford Technologies "Helping you become AGILE... to...
Dave Rooney
daverooneyca
Offline Send Email
May 22, 2008
1:26 pm

... The words just came out of my fingers. The idea ... years of dissolution, I suppose. Thanks, Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Agility is not an...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Offline Send Email
May 22, 2008
2:00 pm

Hi Victor, ... between payer and payee on what is the payment for. I think this is also a very important point, and it ties up with other answers in the thread...
martagf_99
Offline Send Email
May 22, 2008
11:34 am

Hi Marta, You explained very clearly the balance between short term results and long term planning. It's a spectrum. Various enterprises find their spot in...
Victor
vmgoldberg2
Offline Send Email
May 22, 2008
12:22 pm

On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 6:28 AM, martagf_99 <marta.gferrero@...> ... Deliver the product. Worry about this later. The new tester will improve by virtue...
Chris Wheeler
chris_h_wheeler
Offline Send Email
May 22, 2008
2:08 pm

Hi Chris, ... improve by ... down to ... There is no question about delivering or not delivering the product, it's about the balance between delivering and...
martagf_99
Offline Send Email
May 22, 2008
4:18 pm

On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 12:12 PM, martagf_99 <marta.gferrero@...> ... When you talk about improvement, what exactly is it that you are talking about? Do...
Chris Wheeler
chris_h_wheeler
Offline Send Email
May 22, 2008
7:19 pm

I mean, for example, having the opportunity to try out things that will improve the overall quality of the product (sometimes by getting new skills or...
martagf_99
Offline Send Email
May 23, 2008
9:22 am

Hello, martagf_99. On Friday, May 23, 2008, at 5:22:20 AM, you ... In my experience, companies that allow people time to learn do exist but are rare. There...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Offline Send Email
May 23, 2008
11:20 am

Hi Ron, ... strong an idea for some snappy code, or a test that is a little hard to write ... and I'm back doing things the old way. It is very important that...
Victor
vmgoldberg2
Offline Send Email
May 23, 2008
11:41 am

I agree, companies that allow for additional time to be able to introduce something new and learn from it are rare. At least until the benefit of having that...
martagf_99
Offline Send Email
May 23, 2008
2:18 pm

Hello, martagf_99. On Friday, May 23, 2008, at 5:22:20 AM, you ... Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com If you're not throwing some gravel once in a while, ...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Offline Send Email
May 23, 2008
11:20 am
First  | < Prev  |  Last 
Advanced

Copyright © 2009 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help