Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
extremeprogramming · Extreme Programming
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Want to share photos of your group with the world? Add a group photo to Flickr.

Best of Y! Groups

   Check them out and nominate your group.
Having problems with message search? Fill out this form to ensure your group is one of the first to be migrated to the new message search system.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
Incremental design material (was YAGNI Football Analogy)   Topic List   < Prev Topic  |  Next Topic >
Reply | Forward  | 
Re: [XP] Re: Incremental design material (was YAGNI Football Analogy)

Hello, Kim. On Tuesday, May 13, 2008, at 4:44:39 AM, you wrote:

> Yes, that seems like a reasonable assumption... Then again, talking
> about a "good design" seems like a slippery slope... Good from what
> perspective? But maybe all qualities from dependency management and
> malleability to, say, performance and localizability are increased by
> adhering to the principles of good design.

I believe that in fact all (for some definition of all) "good
design" qualities do result from some small (for some definition of
small) set of principles.

> To me, the "evolutionability" seems like just another quality (or an
> aggregate of other qualities, perhaps) that one can optimize for in
> one's designs.

I believe that by most people's lights, a "good design"
automatically turns out to be evolvable. IOW, faced with a design
that is thought to be good, but not evolvable, we can quickly come
up with a design which is similar in essence, "better", and
evolvable. The making it "better" will make it more evolvable
without working directly toward that property.

Now it is hard to read one's own mind accurately, but I've developed
this bizarre theory based on working as much as I can "only" from
Kent's four rules of simple design, without regard to move vague or
long term considerations. All on their own, as closely as I can
manage, they seem to generate designs that I consider "good".

Ron Jeffries
www.XProgramming.com
Sorry about your cow ... I didn't know she was sacred.




Tue May 13, 2008 11:56 am

RonaldEJeffries
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email

Forward
 | 
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

Hi Alistair, ... Yes, that seems like a reasonable assumption... Then again, talking about a "good design" seems like a slippery slope... Good from what ...
Kim Gräsman
kimgrasman
Offline Send Email
May 13, 2008
8:44 am

... I believe that in fact all (for some definition of all) "good design" qualities do result from some small (for some definition of small) set of principles....
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Offline Send Email
May 13, 2008
11:58 am

Hi Ron, On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Ron Jeffries ... Intuitively, that makes sense to me too. But I think there are properties that make a design not-so...
Kim Gräsman
kimgrasman
Offline Send Email
May 13, 2008
1:19 pm

... It depends a lot on just HOW you commit to a persistence engine, I'd think. For example, GemStone for Smalltalk basically works by making all objects...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Offline Send Email
May 13, 2008
1:43 pm

... We achieve code that can be evolved by explicitly not concerning ourselves with specific potential evolutionary directions. The existing core design...
Paul Campbell
pncampbell99
Online Now Send Email
May 14, 2008
8:42 am

... In my practice, I have observed that testable design is good design often enough that I can safely substitute one term for the other and I don't suffer. So...
J. B. Rainsberger
nails762
Offline Send Email
May 16, 2008
1:41 am

... To "design for evolution" I simply invoke the four elements of simple design (passes tests, avois duplication, expresses intent, avoids complexity) and...
J. B. Rainsberger
nails762
Offline Send Email
May 16, 2008
1:24 am

J.B. ... <snip/> ... This last bit has been ringing true for me lately. Any thoughts on speeding up the nuanced recognition or is it just time and experience?...
Matt
maswaffer
Offline Send Email
May 16, 2008
5:49 am

... I've had very good luck pairing with people or small groups (on screen) and talking about what I see. I suppose it's kind of like bird-spotting or...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Offline Send Email
May 16, 2008
11:20 am

... I don't know how to beat practice, observation and hanging around with people who already kick ass. ... J. B. (Joe) Rainsberger :: http://www.jbrains.ca ...
J. B. Rainsberger
nails762
Offline Send Email
May 17, 2008
3:48 am

Kim, I don't know when or if they plan to release it, but you might ask InfoQ for the recording of my QCon London talk from earlier this year. It contains the ...
Kent Beck
kentlbeck
Offline Send Email
May 12, 2008
11:08 pm

Hi Kent, ... Thanks, I'll poke around and see what I can find. Seed crystals, yum! - Kim...
Kim Gräsman
kimgrasman
Offline Send Email
May 13, 2008
8:47 am

Hi Kim, I thought I'd ping in with my 2 piasters. Good design has always been (and will continue to be?) extremely subjective. Simple/incremental/evolutionary...
amr_samadisy
Offline Send Email
May 13, 2008
12:49 pm

Hi Amr, Thanks for the tips! I'd arrived at the same conclusion: incremental design needs good design to work. In order to better do designs, read up and...
Kim Gräsman
kimgrasman
Offline Send Email
May 13, 2008
1:23 pm

... There's an ancient saying: "all design problems can be solved by adding a layer of indirection." Persistance is a good example: I prefer to use the...
John Roth
jhrothjr
Offline Send Email
May 13, 2008
2:35 pm
 First  |  |  Next > Last 
Advanced

Copyright © 2009 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help