I took the opportunity of attending Agile 2008 to spend a few hours
speaking with Arlo Belshee, who I'd like to congratulate publicly here
for winning a Gordon Pask Award. He told me about some research and
practice he has completed regarding cost estimates--notably, not
making them. He argued, or so I managed to discern, that the energy
that goes in to making and managing cost estimates outweighs the
benefit of having them. I immediately saw how that would work, but I
wanted to know whether anyone out there has any experience running
projects where you measured results but didn't estimate costs.
Thanks.
----
J. B. (Joe) Rainsberger :: http://www.jbrains.ca
Your guide to software craftsmanship
JUnit Recipes: Practical Methods for Programmer Testing
2005 Gordon Pask Award for contributions to Agile Software Practice
Hello, folks. I took the opportunity of attending Agile 2008 to spend a few hours speaking with Arlo Belshee, who I'd like to congratulate publicly here for...
Joe... This is the conclusion that we have come to at IL, too. For our own work we're finding that a pure 'pull' model works just fine. We 'pull' stories off...
Joe... This is the conclusion that we have come to at IL, too. For our own work we're finding that a pure 'pull' model works just fine. We 'pull' stories off...
Hi Mike, ... I was there for the talk. It was interesting - no estimates, just gut feels for what you can get done using microreleases. I would love to hear...
... I'm another IL coach working with Josh & Mike. At one customer Josh mentioned in his talk we did long-term forecasting for approximately 2 month releases....
... Seeing as all the IL folks are experts at (I)XP, wouldn't this be considered an expert-level practice? If a team is in the Shu or Ha stages, I'm not...
... I definitely don't consider doing planning without points or estimates to be only for experts. In fact, we've been actively teaching this to clients for ...
... I don't think so. It may be that this way of working is where some experts have evolved to, but we are also learning how to explain and teach it to new...
Hello, Karl. On Thursday, August 14, 2008, at 11:39:42 AM, you ... The first XP team was not terribly expert. Good people but not great. And it went fine. Ron...
... Yes, I think that perception will fade away over time. It's a matter of embracing change, once again. Even without estimates, at the end of a timebox...
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 7:21 AM, Joshua Kerievsky ... Work in process when the timebox expires is waste. Various strategies to reduce this waste include: 1....
... So if a user story is half done in timebox 1 and completed in timebox 2, that is waste? I would think if the half-finished work from timebox 1 is never...
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Joshua Kerievsky < ... Work-in-process is waste because it ties up capital. The longer something remains WIP, the more...
WIP is inventory and, yes, inventory is waste. However, even Dell has *some* inventory. Dave Rooney Mayford Technologies "Helping you become AGILE... to...
Hello, Joshua. On Friday, August 15, 2008, at 2:14:53 PM, you ... True, but it is very bad precedent, especially for teams that are keeping score in points or...
... completed, ... But what if you 'keep score' in ways that don't require iterations? Two ways that I recommend are throughput and cycle-time. Throughput...
... Yes, if you don't keep score of cycle time, then that concern goes away. I don't think kanban-style is therefore concern free, but nothing is. Ron Jeffries...
Hi Ron, ... I'm confused by your reply, you seem to be agreeing and disagreeing at the same time which makes me think we've got our wires crossed somewhere! ...
... Sorry, meant to say that if you don't try to use iteration velocity ... I was trying to agree at that level. :) ... You paid attention to me. Ron Jeffries ...
On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 2:08 AM, Karl Scotland ... Under this scoring system, ending the time box with multiple stories half-done yields a lower score than...
Hi Steve, ... Using the metrics I described, time-boxes aren't required, so there there is never any half done work at the end of a time-box :) ... Agreed....
... [snip] ... Not to put too fine a point on it, but as I understand it work in process inventory is waste by definition whether or not the inventory is...
Dave, ... no ... the ... WIP inventory in a production environment is waste by definition because it takes up physical space which any operations person can...
Hi Matt, ... Yes. ... It seems to me the issue in this context is not physical space or about extra code, but simply time. If you visualize a batch-and-queue ...
... A lot of this discussion has focused on waste from not shipping. What about waste from shipping code? Consider a burdensome registration process that ...
On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 8:36 AM, Joshua Kerievsky ... Delivering working software is not necessarily the same thing as shipping it. Before releasing the...
... Yes, work on only a few valuable stories for your micro-release and if you don't finish a story in time for the micro-release, it ain't no big friggen ...
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