This is the conclusion that we have come to at IL, too. For our own work
we're finding that a pure 'pull' model works just fine. We 'pull' stories
off the top of our customer-sorted stack and implement them. Planning
meetings have gotten smaller and focus now on 'what is most important'.
Josh gave a talk about these techniques at Agile 2008. Maybe he can chime
in some more.
On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 4:17 PM, J. B. Rainsberger <jbrains762@...>wrote:
> Hello, folks.
>
> I took the opportunity of attending Agile 2008 to spend a few hours
> speaking with Arlo Belshee, who I'd like to congratulate publicly here
> for winning a Gordon Pask Award. He told me about some research and
> practice he has completed regarding cost estimates--notably, not
> making them. He argued, or so I managed to discern, that the energy
> that goes in to making and managing cost estimates outweighs the
> benefit of having them. I immediately saw how that would work, but I
> wanted to know whether anyone out there has any experience running
> projects where you measured results but didn't estimate costs.
>
> Stories? Studies? Journals? Financial statements? Anyone? Anything?
>
> Thanks.
> ----
> J. B. (Joe) Rainsberger :: http://www.jbrains.ca
> Your guide to software craftsmanship
> JUnit Recipes: Practical Methods for Programmer Testing
> 2005 Gordon Pask Award for contributions to Agile Software Practice
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joe... This is the conclusion that we have come to at IL, too. For our own work we're finding that a pure 'pull' model works just fine. We 'pull' stories off...
Joe... This is the conclusion that we have come to at IL, too. For our own work we're finding that a pure 'pull' model works just fine. We 'pull' stories off...
Hi Mike, ... I was there for the talk. It was interesting - no estimates, just gut feels for what you can get done using microreleases. I would love to hear...
... I'm another IL coach working with Josh & Mike. At one customer Josh mentioned in his talk we did long-term forecasting for approximately 2 month releases....
... Seeing as all the IL folks are experts at (I)XP, wouldn't this be considered an expert-level practice? If a team is in the Shu or Ha stages, I'm not...
... I definitely don't consider doing planning without points or estimates to be only for experts. In fact, we've been actively teaching this to clients for ...
... I don't think so. It may be that this way of working is where some experts have evolved to, but we are also learning how to explain and teach it to new...
Hello, Karl. On Thursday, August 14, 2008, at 11:39:42 AM, you ... The first XP team was not terribly expert. Good people but not great. And it went fine. Ron...
... Yes, I think that perception will fade away over time. It's a matter of embracing change, once again. Even without estimates, at the end of a timebox...
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 7:21 AM, Joshua Kerievsky ... Work in process when the timebox expires is waste. Various strategies to reduce this waste include: 1....
... So if a user story is half done in timebox 1 and completed in timebox 2, that is waste? I would think if the half-finished work from timebox 1 is never...
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Joshua Kerievsky < ... Work-in-process is waste because it ties up capital. The longer something remains WIP, the more...
WIP is inventory and, yes, inventory is waste. However, even Dell has *some* inventory. Dave Rooney Mayford Technologies "Helping you become AGILE... to...
Hello, Joshua. On Friday, August 15, 2008, at 2:14:53 PM, you ... True, but it is very bad precedent, especially for teams that are keeping score in points or...
... completed, ... But what if you 'keep score' in ways that don't require iterations? Two ways that I recommend are throughput and cycle-time. Throughput...
... Yes, if you don't keep score of cycle time, then that concern goes away. I don't think kanban-style is therefore concern free, but nothing is. Ron Jeffries...
Hi Ron, ... I'm confused by your reply, you seem to be agreeing and disagreeing at the same time which makes me think we've got our wires crossed somewhere! ...
... Sorry, meant to say that if you don't try to use iteration velocity ... I was trying to agree at that level. :) ... You paid attention to me. Ron Jeffries ...
On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 2:08 AM, Karl Scotland ... Under this scoring system, ending the time box with multiple stories half-done yields a lower score than...
Hi Steve, ... Using the metrics I described, time-boxes aren't required, so there there is never any half done work at the end of a time-box :) ... Agreed....
... [snip] ... Not to put too fine a point on it, but as I understand it work in process inventory is waste by definition whether or not the inventory is...
Dave, ... no ... the ... WIP inventory in a production environment is waste by definition because it takes up physical space which any operations person can...
Hi Matt, ... Yes. ... It seems to me the issue in this context is not physical space or about extra code, but simply time. If you visualize a batch-and-queue ...
... A lot of this discussion has focused on waste from not shipping. What about waste from shipping code? Consider a burdensome registration process that ...
On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 8:36 AM, Joshua Kerievsky ... Delivering working software is not necessarily the same thing as shipping it. Before releasing the...
... Yes, work on only a few valuable stories for your micro-release and if you don't finish a story in time for the micro-release, it ain't no big friggen ...
... Exactly. I think a lot of the waste people see with WIP is in the context of longer "legacy" release cycles. Dave Rooney Mayford Technologies "Helping you...
Hi all, I'll send this question, because even when I've read a lot of articles still unclear for me which is the best approach. I'm programming my business...
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