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Preparing XP for the big projects   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #150934 of 152320 |
Re: [XP] Preparing XP for the big projects

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 8:48 PM, zdnfa<zdnfa@...> wrote:
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> i want to share with you the idea of my PhD. research
>
> the idea is that Kent Beck says that XP works fine for projects of 10 to 20
> programmers, but not for the big ones.
>

10-20 programmers is /huge/. In my experience XP teams are successful
with far fewer.

> our research is that some modifications on XP may well make it fine with big
> ones. these modifications are as follows:
>

Why? Why would you want your team to be bigger than that? What
advantage does having a large team provide?

> 1. XP focuses on tacit knowledge sharing but on explicit, we need to increse
> our focus on explicit knowledge by increasing the amount of documentation
> but rationally.
>

Is running code with tests a form of "explicit knowledge?" Might we
perhaps be more successful with more of that rather than more
documentation (rational or otherwise?)

> 2. if we add an analysis phase per iteration we increase the amount of
> explicit knowledge sharing with customers.
>

We analyze continuously. How would separating analysis from other
day-to-day activities give us any advantage?

> 3. we introduce the concept of pair development over instead of pair
> programming, that is instead of doing the programming in pairs, we do the
> analysis, design, and coding in pairs.
>

We already do this. Analysis, design, and coding are all part of the
existing pair programming/TDD paradigm.



Sat Jul 4, 2009 6:53 am

adamjaph
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Dear all, i want to share with you the idea of my PhD. research the idea is that Kent Beck says that XP works fine for projects of 10 to 20 programmers, but...
zdnfa
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Jul 3, 2009
1:33 pm

Hello Zaidoun, When you say research, do you mean that you have found a statistically significant difference in the success rates of large teams that are doing...
Chet Hendrickson
suechet
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Jul 3, 2009
1:50 pm

    Dear all, thanks for your reply   your questions could be answered through reading this article...
zaidoun alzoabi
zdnfa
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Jul 4, 2009
9:39 am

... Every project encounters obstacles. In the vast majority of cases, the obstacles can be cleared given determination, courage and organizational support...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
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Jul 4, 2009
1:03 pm

Dear Zaidoun, It sounds like you made a sensible local adaptation of XP for your situation. That's what XPers do. The question of whether those adaptations are...
kentb
kentlbeck
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Jul 6, 2009
5:03 am

Always an optimist. I love that. Whenever someone says to me, "The way you described turned out to be sub-optimal. So I modified it." And then in the course of...
Adam Sroka
adamjaph
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Jul 6, 2009
6:39 am

Dear Adam, I've been working on a way to respond positively to your message below. I hope I have it. What I appreciate about the work Zaidoun is doing is that...
kentb
kentlbeck
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Jul 13, 2009
3:09 pm

... I appreciate that. As I said, I don't see how what he is doing or purporting to have done moves our knowledge "forward." But, if you do see that, then that...
Adam Sroka
adamjaph
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Jul 13, 2009
3:47 pm

... Adam, As people who pride themselves on quick thinking and quick learning, we tend to jump to 'ha' and 'ri' without much 'shu'. I mostly worry about...
Tim Ottinger
linux_tim
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Jul 14, 2009
1:35 pm

... Perhaps you are right. On the other hand, I don't feel terribly guilty about thinking the former in absence of any evidence of the latter. I also don't...
Adam Sroka
adamjaph
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Jul 14, 2009
3:13 pm

... Especially when they call it research and/or hold it up as an exemplar....
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
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Jul 14, 2009
3:35 pm

... It would only be the exemplar thing that bothers me in the least. But I was convinced of a lot of things when I first read of XP, too. Tim Ottinger ...
Tim Ottinger
linux_tim
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Jul 14, 2009
7:39 pm

... I got the impression that the original poster was presenting a hypothesis, formed from his experiences, which he hadn't tested but wanted to further ...
Chris Wheeler
chris_h_wheeler
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Jul 14, 2009
5:58 pm

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Chris ... That would depend on what the OP means by the word "is". My reading is that the research is well under way, if not...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
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Jul 14, 2009
6:50 pm

... Yes I can read it that way, once I factored in the OP's English-as-a-second-language. Chris. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]...
Chris Wheeler
chris_h_wheeler
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Jul 15, 2009
1:45 am

Dear all, Thanks for your comments on the topic, but I was a bit surprised at the extremism I saw about XP, something I don't think Kent Beck really meant by...
zdnfa
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Jul 15, 2009
3:08 am

Hello, zdnfa. On Tuesday, July 14, 2009, at 10:48:03 PM, you ... Yes. It is surely possible to be successful using the approach you've talked about: it's...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
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Jul 15, 2009
3:38 am

... agreed. ... agreed. ... Agile does away with phases by rotating the traditional process 90 degrees. Instead of doing phases in order such as these: -...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
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Jul 15, 2009
3:40 am

... That's dangerously close to an ad hominem. No one here has said anything that extreme thus far. ... It's rare that 95.5% of people agree on anything. The...
Adam Sroka
adamjaph
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Jul 18, 2009
2:56 am

Adam, you appear quite passionate about research and XP. Since this research clearly isn't up to your standard, or even necessary, would you suggest a few...
Chris Wheeler
chris_h_wheeler
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Jul 18, 2009
4:08 pm

Dear all, thanks for your reply your questions could be answered through reading this article www.ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/4520396/4529902/04530347.pdf but for...
zdnfa
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Jul 4, 2009
9:40 am

... I'm not currently a member of IEEE, and I'm not inclined to pay to read this. However, I wanted to point out that your abstract is incorrect. The...
Adam Sroka
adamjaph
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Jul 4, 2009
10:30 am

Hello, zaidoun. My biggest and first question is to understand the extent to which you and your colleagues have actually done XP as it exists. Some smaller...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
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Jul 3, 2009
1:51 pm

PhD research should go beyond what has already been done. How would your research surpass Balancing Agility and Discipline By Barry W Boehm, Richard Turner? ...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
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Jul 3, 2009
1:54 pm

The reason for small teams is because communication breaks down as teams size up. In other words communication is maximized by intentionally keeping team size...
Tim Ottinger
linux_tim
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Jul 3, 2009
6:53 pm

... No downside for us, maybe. However, they do not grant PhDs for confirming something that is generally believed, especially if the basis of that...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
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Jul 3, 2009
8:50 pm

Along the same lines, to what area of knowledge would a work on Ph.D. thesis on XP improvement belong? Psychology? Business administration? Regards, Slava...
Slava Imeshev
imeshev
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Jul 4, 2009
6:37 am

... 10-20 programmers is /huge/. In my experience XP teams are successful with far fewer. ... Why? Why would you want your team to be bigger than that? What ...
Adam Sroka
adamjaph
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Jul 4, 2009
6:55 am

Tim Ottinger http://agileinaflash.blogspot.com/ http://agileotter.blogspot.com/...
Tim Ottinger
linux_tim
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Jul 4, 2009
3:01 pm

... How about you locate the 10 biggest, most successful projects you can, and then study what they actually did? Not what ideology they worshiped! ... Look at...
Phlip
phlipcpp
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Jul 5, 2009
10:35 pm
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