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Reply | Forward Message #151525 of 152463 |
Re: pairing

Warning: Bluntness ahead

Point me to the study that proves...point me to the study that proves...point me
to the study that proves...<yawn>

There is no answer that will satisfy the person who demands studies as proof.

Studies aren't proof. Studies are analyses of observed phenomena. The thing a
study analyzes has already happened before the study is performed.

Point me to the study that proves...sounds just like the knee-jerk resistance to
agile itself that we used to hear, 8+ years ago. The proof is in the doing.

If the described approach worked for Arlo, I want to know how it was done and
what the necessary conditions for success might be, so that I can add it to my
toolkit and use it at the appropriate times and in the appropriate way.

If academicians want to publish a study about it someday, I won't stop them. But
I won't wait for them, either.

I don't base my work on studies. Studies base their results on my work (and
everyone else's work, of course). Point is, results come first, studies come
later.

Dave


--- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Chris Wheeler
<christopher.wheeler@...> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> wrote:
>
> > Hello, Jeff,
> >
> > What you and others seem to be missing is that Arlo reported actual,
> > measured, productivity under this "promiscuous pairing" practice.
> > All out concerns about would it be more interruptions etc etc cannot
> > change the fact that he actually tried many ways of doing things and
> > of them all, this one really was fastest for his team.
> >
> > I don't suggest that this means that you and I should switch pairs
> > every 90 minutes ... but it sure does suggest that our hypothesizing
> > about it not working is faulty ... since it really did work.
>
>
> It really worked...once. Seems as though the results haven't been replicated
> consistently. Perhaps someone could point me to a writeup of the study that
> includes data and results - always a skeptic, I'd like to see for myself
> what really happened.
>
> Chris.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





Thu Sep 3, 2009 11:04 am

davenicolette
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Message #151525 of 152463 |
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Hi Chris-- ... Can you please post the link? Thanks, Jeff http://langrsoft.com http://agileinaflash.com...
Jeff Langr
jlangr
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Aug 27, 2009
3:07 pm

Warning: Bluntness ahead Point me to the study that proves...point me to the study that proves...point me to the study that proves...<yawn> There is no answer...
davenicolette
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Sep 3, 2009
11:05 am

Dave, Proof, or evidence, or data that shows a method produces the results claimed does satisfy. Arlo's results (90 minute pair switches lead to highest ...
Chris Wheeler
chris_h_wheeler
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Sep 3, 2009
3:49 pm

Chris, Granted, there's more than one way to form beliefs and more than one way for a person to satisfy himself that something might be worth a try. Healthy...
davenicolette
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Sep 3, 2009
5:12 pm

Hello, davenicolette. On Thursday, September 3, 2009, at 1:12:13 ... Let's get real. If one team tries 90 minutes and measures the hell out of it, down to...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
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Sep 3, 2009
5:27 pm

Yep. Seems intuitively obvious to me. I guess it doesn't seem that way to everyone, though. Dave...
davenicolette
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Sep 3, 2009
5:47 pm

... FWIW, I've nothing against a 'just try it' approach and approach many things that way. As I reflect on when I've chosen to use that way of learning over a...
Chris Wheeler
chris_h_wheeler
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Sep 4, 2009
2:35 pm

Hello, Chris. On Friday, September 4, 2009, at 10:34:37 AM, you ... What if there were ten articles agreeing with Arlo's? What if there were a hundred? Then...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
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Sep 4, 2009
5:01 pm

... If there were ten or one hundred articles that had replicated the experiment that Arlo originally created and got the same results, is there something that...
Chris Wheeler
chris_h_wheeler
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Sep 4, 2009
5:26 pm

On 3 Sep 2009, at 16:49, Chris Wheeler wrote: [snip] ... [snip] Me neither. Might still try it though. That's often worked well for me (e.g. TDD). Sometimes it...
Adrian Howard
ajh65537
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Sep 3, 2009
6:10 pm

Hi Jeff, ... Even if, would that invariably be bad? Wouldn't it, for example, lead to more learning? One more effect I would expect is that Sam feels more...
Ilja Preuß
ipreussde
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Aug 28, 2009
11:41 am

Greetings Ilja, ... I had no such conclusion that such interruptions would be invariably bad, more that they would initially detract from productivity--which...
Jeff Langr
jlangr
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Aug 28, 2009
11:00 pm

... I've found it to be a problem if pairs only switch between stories: Unless stories are significantly shorter than the pairing time (or are of the same and...
jeffgrigg63132
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Sep 5, 2009
12:25 pm

... It's also easier to switch off when the trade is still in ... We suspected this and wondered how to mitigate it. We have a small team. One pair on one new...
w6rabbit
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Aug 25, 2009
4:24 pm

What do people complain about? Why is it too often? Curious, Ilja...
Ilja Preuß
ipreussde
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Aug 25, 2009
8:04 am

... 1) Context switching. 2) Having a hard time getting and holding the big picture when jumping from project to project. 3) Tried one thing, didn't work. ...
w6rabbit
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Aug 25, 2009
10:46 pm

Hello, w6rabbit. On Tuesday, August 25, 2009, at 5:45:15 PM, you ... Why would the leftover person not remember what hadn't worked? And why would they be...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
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Aug 26, 2009
12:47 am

... What if every pair was working on a different part of the same story instead of different stories?...
Steven Gordon
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Aug 27, 2009
2:21 pm

Hi ... So you have one team working on several projects? In the same iteration? ... Frankly, that doesn't sound like teamwork to me. Why would they not build...
Ilja Preuß
ipreussde
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Aug 28, 2009
11:49 am

Brad, ... I think it depends on what's the goal, to switch pairs or to get the work done. Regards, Slava Imeshev...
Slava Imeshev
imeshev
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Aug 25, 2009
8:46 pm

Hello, Slava. On Tuesday, August 25, 2009, at 3:45:06 PM, you ... The goal, I imagine, is to get the work done. What Arlo's team discovered was that they got...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
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Aug 26, 2009
1:03 am

... I asked timing of pair swapping in a general way because in general I don't think it is talked about enough. In our specific situation, we have one team,...
w6rabbit
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Aug 25, 2009
10:56 pm

... An important goal of Agile development is any programmer could work on any module at any time. You can go fast when you have that much backup....
Phlip
phlipcpp
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Aug 26, 2009
12:55 am

... Amplifying: There is getting the work done today and then getting it done tomorrow. Agile works partly because it makes tomorrow no worse (and hopefully a ...
Tim Ottinger
linux_tim
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Aug 26, 2009
1:46 am

... Hmm. I though the goal was to get things done fast[er] with required quality. At any rate, one should expect that within a given user story pair's...
imeshev
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Aug 26, 2009
5:38 am

Hello, imeshev. On Wednesday, August 26, 2009, at 12:37:29 AM, ... Faster would be nice ... ... One might be wrong ... it might be that velocity grows for a...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
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Aug 26, 2009
7:15 am

... I'm not sure how you'd come to the conclusion that there is *the* goal. ... That's certainly one thing you *could* expect. Sometimes, reality just doesn't...
Ilja Preuß
ipreussde
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Aug 26, 2009
7:28 am

... It's the same difference - mine is the observable goal and yours is the effect you expect for a result. Mine is "keep going up until you can't go up any...
Phlip
phlipcpp
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Aug 26, 2009
11:41 pm

... When you say "not getting good results," what do you mean? ... How long have the developers been practicing pairing? Have they ever liked it, or have they...
George Dinwiddie
gdinwiddie
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Aug 30, 2009
12:33 am
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