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Agile Isn't a "Thing"   Message List  
Reply Message #155140 of 157781 |
The ongoing thread about whether is always/sometimes/not always/never/whatever
"right" for a given environment seems to me to be missing something rather
important. It seems to be based on the assumption that "agile" is some
particular thing that we can talk about unambiguously.

It isn't.

Agile started as a coming-together of a few pretty smart developers, each having
their own peculiar way of writing software. It was a definition of common ground
among folks with rather different approaches. It still is today.

So, it seems to me that we can talk rather precisely about whether XP or Scrum
Evo or FDD fits a particular environment, I think we get into trouble when we
want to apply the same level of precision to "agile."

Agile is a set of values. They fit anywhere that those values are respected,
including places where folks are trying to move the company culture away
from antithetical values and towards those of agile.

I don't know how to do either XP or "agile" with a "team" of 100 people.
But there's a difference. I can imagine that there might be some way to
follow agile values with a group of 100 people - some way I have not
yet learned. But I'm real sure you can't do XP with teams of that size.

So if we want to get beyond the values, I think we have to talk about
specific agile approaches, not about "agile" in general.

Charlie



Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:53 pm

cpoole98370
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Message #155140 of 157781 |
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The ongoing thread about whether is always/sometimes/not always/never/whatever "right" for a given environment seems to me to be missing something rather ...
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370 Offline Send Email
Sep 10, 2010
11:53 pm

Hi Charlie, For me Agile is a belief system. Mary Poppendiek has a presentation where she talks about leadership and the beliefs held within organisations. Her...
PAUL
beckfordp... Offline Send Email
Sep 11, 2010
10:07 am

Hi Paul, ... I believe that's true at a certain (high) level. But even when it comes to belief systems, there is quite a bit of diversity among folks in the...
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370 Offline Send Email
Sep 11, 2010
1:21 pm

Occasionally this type of speech is given, moving agile into the realm of mystery and legend, instead of something that it really is - a family of software...
Chris Wheeler
chris_h_wheeler Offline Send Email
Sep 15, 2010
2:45 am

Hi Chris, I'm not clear which parts/sides of the discussion you are seeing as "moving agile into the realm of mystery and legend." Can you explain? For my...
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370 Offline Send Email
Sep 15, 2010
3:16 am

Hello, Charlie. On Tuesday, September 14, 2010, at 11:15:55 PM, ... Is mathematics a thing? Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com www.xprogramming.com/blog I...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries Offline Send Email
Sep 15, 2010
4:03 am

Hi Ron, As with "agile" there are contexts in which it makes sense to talk about mathematics as one thing and other contexts where it doesn't. In the case of...
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370 Offline Send Email
Sep 15, 2010
4:59 pm

Hello, Charlie. On Wednesday, September 15, 2010, at 12:59:27 PM, ... I don't share that mental model, thus my analogy. I guess I'd need an example or N ... ...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries Offline Send Email
Sep 16, 2010
12:40 am

... I'm writing on Agile (not just XP or just SCRUM) a lot lately, and have opinions on it. I think that "Agile" is too abstract for most people. People...
Tim Ottinger
linux_tim Offline Send Email
Sep 15, 2010
12:56 pm

Hi Tim, I'd venture a guess that most people need are more ready to grasp the abstraction after they have been introduced to an particular instantiation of...
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370 Offline Send Email
Sep 15, 2010
5:03 pm

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Charlie Poole <charlie@... ... Agile ultimately is about the whole development team taking responsibility for...
Steven Gordon
sfman2k Offline Send Email
Sep 15, 2010
7:02 pm

Hi Steven, For the record, I didn't write the last sentence quoted for me - the one starting "It depends..." - and don't know who did. I agree with you that...
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370 Offline Send Email
Sep 15, 2010
10:28 pm

... I wasn't saying it's necessarily wrong, only that it's true. We shouldn't get so wrapped up in our work that we forget that it out to be incredibly simple...
Tim Ottinger
linux_tim Offline Send Email
Sep 16, 2010
12:53 am

Hi Charlie, Some coaches choose to focus on peoples behaviours in the belief that it will in turn influence peoples feelings and thoughts, helping them towards...
PAUL
beckfordp... Offline Send Email
Sep 16, 2010
3:12 am

Hi Paul, While I agree with you regarding the holistic aspect of it, I don't find I need to generalize about agile in order to get to it. For example, I don't...
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370 Offline Send Email
Sep 16, 2010
5:03 am

Hi Charlie, Please see my comments. ... Agreed. I am not suggesting generalising. I am just using 'Agile" as a convenient label for these other "things" ... I...
PAUL
beckfordp... Offline Send Email
Sep 16, 2010
5:51 am

Hi Paul, ... out wanting to know where and when will XP/Scrum/etc will not work? The answer >seems to be where there are bits missing. ... Today I believe that...
Lior Friedman
friedmanlior Offline Send Email
Sep 16, 2010
9:06 am

Hi, Your wording is better then mine. ... This is worth discussing, and if some of the things that made it fail were fixed "constraints" at the outset then...
PAUL
beckfordp... Offline Send Email
Sep 16, 2010
9:31 am

Hi Paul, ... fixed "constraints" at the outset then perhaps XP was ... you are right some of the constraints you can see before, and those are the things that...
Lior Friedman
friedmanlior Offline Send Email
Sep 16, 2010
11:36 am

Hi Lior, ... Agreed. One way of dealing with some of these constraints is by recognising that the environment isn't ready for XP. You can water down the...
PAUL
beckfordp... Offline Send Email
Sep 16, 2010
12:02 pm

Hi Paul, ... pre-requisites. Whilst this is a useful sales pitch, it also ... I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean by prerequisite. I think that the...
Lior Friedman
friedmanlior Offline Send Email
Sep 16, 2010
12:40 pm

... A pre-requisite is that you buy into the underlying values. Otherwise you'll be doing XP but..., or Scrum but... Mr Marvin Toll has provided us with...
PAUL
beckfordp... Offline Send Email
Sep 16, 2010
1:07 pm

Hi Paul, ... you'll be doing XP but..., or Scrum but... ... Don't care. i buy into the values and that helps me use techniques that sometimes benefits other. I...
Lior Friedman
friedmanlior Offline Send Email
Sep 16, 2010
1:35 pm

Hi Lior, I don't mind small steps and I don't mind improvement either. I am making a small point. What do you call what you are doing? Labels are important I...
PAUL
beckfordp... Offline Send Email
Sep 16, 2010
1:48 pm

Hi Paul, I'll start by saying that Ron is much more clearer on my points exactly. i also think that if you stick to an agile practice it doesn't really matter ...
Lior Friedman
friedmanlior Offline Send Email
Sep 16, 2010
3:20 pm

Hi Lior, ... Yes it does. As Brad rightly points out, I think we are all somewhat guilty of being loose in our use of language. If I was going to re-phrase...
PAUL
beckfordp... Offline Send Email
Sep 16, 2010
3:58 pm

Hi Lior, ... Agreed. I'm running the same danger right now on this thread, but I think it's worth the risk. We should be clear about what being Agile (or...
PAUL
beckfordp... Offline Send Email
Sep 16, 2010
4:11 pm

Hi Lior, ... Agreed. One way of dealing with some of these constraints is by recognising that the environment isn't ready for XP. You can water down the...
PAUL
beckfordp... Offline Send Email
Sep 16, 2010
12:02 pm

Hi Lior, ... Agreed. One way of dealing with some of these constraints is by recognising that the environment isn't ready for XP. You can water down the...
PAUL
beckfordp... Offline Send Email
Sep 16, 2010
12:02 pm
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