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Reply Message #95559 of 157782 |
RE: [XP] Resistance to index cards

Managers and most other people in business are pretty well accustomed to
attending
training sessions where they are asked to do strange things - fall on the
ground,
walk around in circles, etc. They are willing to do those things because
they believe
they will learn some thing in the process.

Where there is resistance, or I strongly suspect it will be there, I teach
people to
use index cards as a planning exercise and as a metaphor for planning. I
tell them
"You may not be able to do this for your real projects, but lets investigate
the
benefits that would accrue if you /could/ do it" They are generally willing
to
stretch the exercise to larger and larger (imaginary) projects, just to see
what
happens - a very XPish thing indeed. At the end, some of them will use index
cards
directly on real projects - usually the smaller ones that don't involve
getting
anyone else's approval.

For the other people and projects, index cards become a metaphor for a
better
way of doing things. By setting up the index card as a sort of ideal that
cannot
be reached - at least not in the cave of their current environment - they
have
a simple way to seek out improvements within their current planning
approach.
For example, from the cards they may learn
* To be brief
* To identify clear tests for knowing when something is done
* To leave details for discussion later and to make sure the discussion
happens
* To create, change or delete only one requirement at a time

The last seems to be particularly useful. So many non-agile companies
construct
baroque review processes that call for practically everyone to review
practically
everything in a requirements document whenever any single thing changes. For
them,
short of going to XP, learning how to look at one story at a time is one of
the
biggest improvements they can make.

Cards as a metaphor is not nearly as good as real cards, so I don't do it if
there
is actually a chance of using cards themselves. But it's still a useful
approach
and a sneaky way to talk about something that might otherwise get shut down.
It
can even lead to doing the real thing once people start thinking about it.

Charlie


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Rooney [mailto:dave.rooney@...]
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 7:07 PM
> To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [XP] Resistance to index cards
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: J. B. Rainsberger [mailto:jbrains@...]
> > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 2:04 AM
> > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [XP] Resistance to index cards
> >
> > <snip />
> >
> > Might this work?
> >
> > Me: I understand that you're worried about our using index cards for
> > this project. I am personally not worried about using them,
> > owing mainly
> > to the success I have had with them on past projects. I would like to
> > propose a compromise: please let us continue to use index cards as
> > usual. At each iteration's planning meeting, we will make
> > copies of all
> > the cards for you, so you can keep track of them in a manner
> > that makes
> > you feel comfortable. Whenever we change a card, we'll let you know.
> > Whenever we tear up a card, we'll let you know. Feel free to have
> > whoever you want maintain this information for you. All I ask is that
> > you let those of us building the software travel as lightly as
> > possible--this will enable us to deliver running, tested
> > features at the
> > highest possible speed, which I imagine is particularly
> > important to you.
> > --
> > J. B. Rainsberger,
> > Diaspar Software Services
> > http://www.diasparsoftware.com :: +1 416 791-8603
> > Let's write software that people understand
>
> See my other response talking about 'bandwidth'. I'm starting to think
> that I should become the local reseller for VersionOne (semi-seriously).
> "That's a pretty big sounding system. It should cost about $10.00 in
> index cards to do the planning. I could also sell you this tool for a
> couple of thousand dollars..." ;)
>
> Dave Rooney
> Mayford Technologies
> http://www.mayford.ca
>
>
>
>
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Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:22 pm

cpoole98370
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Send Email Send Email

Message #95559 of 157782 |
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... See my other response talking about 'bandwidth'. I'm starting to think that I should become the local reseller for VersionOne (semi-seriously). "That's a...
Dave Rooney
daverooneyca Offline Send Email
Aug 23, 2004
2:07 am

Managers and most other people in business are pretty well accustomed to attending training sessions where they are asked to do strange things - fall on the ...
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370 Offline Send Email
Aug 23, 2004
5:23 pm

... Charlie, this one line is worth the price of the whole thread. Thank you. -- J. B. Rainsberger, Diaspar Software Services http://www.diasparsoftware.com ::...
J. B. Rainsberger
nails762 Offline Send Email
Aug 24, 2004
3:12 pm

Hi J.B. ... That's a high compliment, considering that the thread is priceless. :-) Charlie...
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370 Offline Send Email
Aug 24, 2004
6:45 pm

... People forget that 50 years ago the entire world ran on paper, and a *lot* of that paper was cards. People forget that 30 years ago nearly all data...
Robert C. Martin
rmartinoma Offline Send Email
Aug 22, 2004
2:54 am

... I think it would be very difficult. XPlanner has a way to print out stories, but they are 8.5 x 11 and difficult to move around. Less than satisfactory. ...
banshee858 Offline Send Email Aug 18, 2004
3:54 pm

... Carlton, You should get hold of Craig Larman's book "Iterative and Agile Management". It has some of the best information about the failings of up-front...
Robert C. Martin
rmartinoma Offline Send Email
Aug 22, 2004
2:56 am

... Who said that? Why? Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com The practices are not XP. They are a path to XP....
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2004
12:24 pm

... See my response to Rachel's post for a more detailed explanation. A quick summary - the Customer, the Coach, Programmers (excluding me, of course!). The...
Dave Rooney
daverooneyca Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2004
12:45 pm

Dave, ... It must be a nice feeling to look around you at all those desks without so much as a scrap of paper on them and think how many rainforests are being...
Laurent Bossavit
morendilfoo Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2004
12:57 pm

... Because it works better? Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com The central "e" in "Jeffries" is silent ... and invisible. Don't you wish he was?...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2004
12:57 pm

... BLASPHEMER!! As a friend's father used to say, "I've already made up my mind. Please don't confuse me with the facts!". Dave Rooney Mayford Technologies ...
Dave Rooney
daverooneyca Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2004
1:08 pm

... No. That doesn't matter. I did some IA/usability work with a group using post-its and index cards. Took a day and everybody liked the results. Until...
Adrian Howard
ajh65537 Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2004
3:05 pm

For some arguments to use I recommend you read the book "The Myth of the Paperless Office" by Abigail Sellen, Richard Harper I found this book from an article ...
rachelclairedavies
rachelclaire... Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2004
2:49 pm

excellent article! One of the more interesting things in the article that is relevant to this discussion is towards the end: "It is only if paper's usefulness...
Steve Berczuk
berczuk Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2004
4:20 pm

... Good point. I will keep that in mind when I get done writing this silly requirements document (I freely admit this is nothing like XP) since my boss wants...
banshee858 Offline Send Email Aug 18, 2004
3:45 pm

... Scanner? People /are/ using XP in such environments. A formal record is a customer-driven work product of such a project, and it can be scheduled and done...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2004
12:20 pm

... I have used XP in such an industry. Odd that you should suggest an electronic format, because they tend to like paper trails. We just numbered the story...
Dominic Williams
d0minicfr Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2004
12:28 pm

... Was the cost of the box important? The material of which it was made? Did it look really cool? :) Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com New and stirring things...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2004
12:39 pm

Maybe the expensive box was fire-proof - the "what if there's a fire argument" sometimes crops up as a reason not to use index cards. I have started using my...
rachelclairedavies
rachelclaire... Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2004
4:34 pm

... Those little PDAs with VGA screens and a little eyeball are sweet. Now if I could only convince those addicted to requiring others to read paper documents ...
Phlip
phlipcpp Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2004
5:43 pm

... How about a fireproof box? How about a safe? They're both cheaper than Microsoft Office, aren't they? -- J. B. Rainsberger, Diaspar Software Services ...
J. B. Rainsberger
nails762 Offline Send Email
Aug 21, 2004
6:10 am

... I didn't even notice the first six words of your reply. I suppose that happens at 2 AM. Sorry. -- J. B. Rainsberger, Diaspar Software Services ...
J. B. Rainsberger
nails762 Offline Send Email
Aug 21, 2004
6:14 am

... Is the box clearly labeled with black-on-white 76-pt Ariel Bold "Finished User Stories"? ===== Phlip ...
Phlip
phlipcpp Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2004
2:16 pm

... If you are required to keep a formal record of the stories, then keep a formal record of the stories. I sometimes type stories into a wiki, even though I...
Robert C. Martin
rmartinoma Offline Send Email
Aug 22, 2004
2:27 am

... You *do* have a formal document for your requirements. That document is your acceptance tests. The story cards are just place holders until the ...
Robert C. Martin
rmartinoma Offline Send Email
Aug 22, 2004
2:07 am

... If I recall correctly, Ron et al also said that after some initial use those 'extra' fields weren't used. Ron? Dave Rooney Mayford Technologies ...
Dave Rooney
daverooneyca Offline Send Email
Aug 17, 2004
4:56 pm

... My recollection is that for all practical purposes, we NEVER used them. I would certainly never recommend them. I recommend blank cards with a couple of...
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2004
6:26 am

For stories I have only four fields: - Intention revealing name (used as a nickname) - description, if the Intention Revealing Name is not enough - size (Tiny,...
Dan Rawsthorne
drawstho Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2004
3:06 pm

How often is the size field "unknown"? Does the incidence decrease as the project matures? ... -- Sean Gilbertson IT Systems/Software Developer...
Sean Gilbertson
SteveEwing Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2004
3:18 pm
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