... [snip] Me neither. I only move to test doubles when I encounter testing pain. I don't do it as a matter of course. I do have an issue with the dependency...
129870
Adrian Howard
ajh65537
Jun 1, 2007 9:51 am
On 1 Jun 2007, at 03:08, Desilets, Alain wrote: [snip] ... [snip] In the Perl world you might find Perl::Critic and Test::Perl::Critic of interest. Adrian...
129871
Elizabeth Keogh
deathbypeaches
Jun 1, 2007 10:43 am
... Some level of test isolation is inevitable if you're doing a top-down approach, and I believe that top-down is always valuable. Start with the UI and work...
129872
Dave Nicolette
dnicolet99
Jun 1, 2007 11:36 am
... first, to ... That's an interesting choice, and I must say it's a bit surprising. You say it's context-specific, and maybe that's where we're missing each...
129873
Dave Nicolette
dnicolet99
Jun 1, 2007 11:52 am
heusser and Seyit, When you say the level of test isolation is variable, or that test isolation is not necessary at all or only on a case-by-case basis, I ...
129874
Jay Flowers
jfl0wers
Jun 1, 2007 11:55 am
Thanks Brad. :-) ... -- Jay Flowers ... http://jayflowers.com ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]...
129875
Dave Nicolette
dnicolet99
Jun 1, 2007 11:57 am
... I think code reviews are a good practice anyway. But they're not a 100% substitute for good testing practices. "Other testing" - manual testing, full...
129876
Adrian Howard
ajh65537
Jun 1, 2007 12:06 pm
On 1 Jun 2007, at 12:55, Dave Nicolette wrote: [snip] ... [snip] Absolutely. I'm not arguing against automated tests! TDD all the way for me :-) I'm just...
129877
Dave Nicolette
dnicolet99
Jun 1, 2007 12:36 pm
... Logical proofs are for academicians. XP isn't an academic matter. The practices we talk about here come from the trenches. When something works, we keep...
129878
Dave Nicolette
dnicolet99
Jun 1, 2007 12:45 pm
... much as possible and I can't say that I have found it to be a problem for debugging purposes. If I change two lines of code in some class and my tests turn...
129879
Jay Flowers
jfl0wers
Jun 1, 2007 12:49 pm
I have made some progress. I have identified variables from the Article Continuous...
129880
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Jun 1, 2007 1:51 pm
... I find that I can build most software just fine without doubles. I wonder what we're doing differently. Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Talent determines...
129881
Dave Nicolette
dnicolet99
Jun 1, 2007 1:58 pm
... Well, let's talk about it and find out what we're doing differently. Just now, I've got to go make a sand--, er, go to a stand-up. Dave...
129882
Andrew Hunt
pragmaticandy
Jun 1, 2007 2:42 pm
Hi all, We are especially pleased to announce Johanna Rothman's newest book, "Manage It! Your Guide to Modern, Pragmatic Project Management" See...
129883
Desilets, Alain
alain_desilets
Jun 1, 2007 2:42 pm
... Hum... I usually don't see a single argument to a single method is a sign that there is not enough separation of concern. It's certainly not a reason to...
129884
Desilets, Alain
alain_desilets
Jun 1, 2007 2:51 pm
... Yes, that is exactly my context. ... Right. I can see that in situations like this, test isolation would be a good thing. Thx for pointing this out....
129885
Ivan Sanchez
s4nchez
Jun 1, 2007 2:55 pm
... If you don't respect your partner's opinion, you're not Pair Programming. -- Ivan Sanchez...
129886
Dave Nicolette
dnicolet99
Jun 1, 2007 3:19 pm
... That depends on the context. Dave...
129887
Kelly Anderson
kellycoinguy
Jun 1, 2007 3:23 pm
... Most of us software people are not very good at marketing ourselves. It is generally impractical for us to continuously sell ourselves to the next...
129888
Oleg Puzanov
puzanov@...
Jun 1, 2007 4:22 pm
If your partner is a stinky one, you're not Pair Programming. Oleg Puzanov IKEEN Group ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]...
129889
Rob Park
rpark68
Jun 1, 2007 7:57 pm
"I believe that top-down is always valuable" I agree. "Start with the UI and work down" . generally, I agree. although if in a WinForm, I'd start with the...
129890
Rob Park
rpark68
Jun 1, 2007 8:02 pm
How many out there do code reviews (of some form) regularly? I tend to think you don't need them as much if you pair and if you switch pairs regularly...
129891
Desilets, Alain
alain_desilets
Jun 1, 2007 8:25 pm
... I never do them. I figure pair programming and collective ownership provide plenty of oppurtunity for impromptu code reviews. Speaking of code reviews. ...
129892
Vee Harwell
vee_harwell
Jun 1, 2007 8:28 pm
I used to be a vehement supporter of code reviews, but lately all they produce for us is arguments about which coding spec is the correct coding spec... ...
129893
Desilets, Alain
alain_desilets
Jun 1, 2007 8:29 pm
... Thx. I'll give them a spin. Alain...
129894
Gary Brown
gb70840
Jun 1, 2007 8:37 pm
... I have no idea what research is being cited, but it is almost certainly referring to testing after, not test first. As I'm sure you know, TDD is about...
129895
Gary Brown
gb70840
Jun 1, 2007 8:40 pm
... Interesting, since in your context, you don't pair much and the three of you work on your own projects most of the time. But then, it's only research for...
129896
John Roth
jhrothjr
Jun 1, 2007 9:36 pm
I can't give you the refs, but there is a substantial body of research that demonstrates that rigorous, formal code inspections are _cheaper_ than testing for...
129897
Jeff Grigg
jeffgrigg63132
Jun 1, 2007 9:57 pm
... Easy: These (Java) mock object frameworks do *NOT* work with the real object at all: They generate, at run time, alternate implementations for the real...
129898
Manuel Klimek
manuel.klimek
Jun 1, 2007 10:21 pm
Alain, ... I "live" collective code ownership by skimming through the changes when I update my working copy. This is by no means a real code review, but...
