I've changed the subject line because we are now some distance from the orginal topic. I think Steve's view on this is very reasonable, as are Joe's comments....
133871
Kelly Anderson
kellycoinguy
Jul 28, 2007 5:11 pm
... I would guess that a lot of this is cultural. In France it is considered fair to have 8 weeks of vacation along with 12-14 holidays and short work weeks....
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Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Jul 28, 2007 7:18 pm
Hello, Ilja. On Saturday, July 28, 2007, at 10:40:43 AM, you ... You may well be right on both counts. That said, the way I'd bet is that people have to...
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Ilja Preuss
ipreussde
Jul 28, 2007 8:10 pm
Hi Ron, ... I'm sorry, but on this I have to totally agree with you. Regards, Ilja...
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Ilja Preuss
ipreussde
Jul 28, 2007 8:16 pm
Hi John, ... Well, having a bonus program come into play, I then see two scenarios: - you are lucky and the bonus program doesn't motivate this developer, or -...
133875
Ilja Preuss
ipreussde
Jul 28, 2007 8:19 pm
... I don't know about Fiji. But I think we don't just have to accept the culture we live in. We are part of it, and can influence it. Cheers, Ilja...
133876
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Jul 28, 2007 8:59 pm
... You're forgiven. Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com In times of stress, I like to turn to the wisdom of my Portuguese waitress, who said: "Olá, meu nome é...
133877
Seyit Caglar Abbasoglu
scabbasoglu_xp
Jul 29, 2007 10:01 pm
That made me think how you differ business people from software people So, for example, when the software people are seen as doing a service ... Business...
133878
Robert Biddle
robtbiddle
Jul 29, 2007 11:05 pm
... That seems reasonable. ... Hmm, this is very different than I intended. In fact, I intended pretty much the same points as the first case, only reversed. ...
133879
Craig Davidson
craigdavidso...
Jul 29, 2007 11:38 pm
Hi Robert, It's an interesting question. I would expect that business people would be less interested in the detail of the technology and processes around it...
133880
Robert Biddle
robtbiddle
Jul 29, 2007 11:46 pm
Well, I guess there are many kinds of business people. And some, as you say, come in late and their contribution is mostly management or marketing. But I do...
133881
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
Jul 30, 2007 12:00 am
This made me think of a kind of counterexample to my original point: There may be business people who are responsible for installation/deployment, training,...
133882
Kelly Anderson
kellycoinguy
Jul 30, 2007 5:59 am
... Ilja, it is my impression that you are a pretty bright fellow. With time, I am sure that Ron and I can convert you to our cynical curmudgeonly view of the...
133883
Ilja Preuss
ipreussde
Jul 30, 2007 4:52 pm
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Seyit Caglar Abbasoglu
scabbasoglu_xp
Jul 30, 2007 6:40 pm
... Yes I got it, seems like I have missed the point at first. I've seen that scenario succeeded. But every instance I had witnessed that, the 'invention' was...
133885
Andrew Forward
andrewforwar...
Jul 30, 2007 7:10 pm
Hi all, I thought that some of your may be interested in sharing your experiences, especially from the agile perspective, on software modeling. My name is...
133886
William Pietri
william_pietri
Jul 30, 2007 8:50 pm
Friday night, I hung out with a pal who has been learning TDD. He is naturally full of questions, and one exchange went like this: "If I have tested all the...
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Dave Nicolette
dnicolet99
Jul 30, 2007 9:28 pm
... Maybe it depends on who you include under the heading, "everybody." If you mean everybody who bothers to participate in a forum like this one, on a topic...
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J. B. Rainsberger
nails762
Jul 30, 2007 11:00 pm
... I assume you mean me. I'm "Joe" or "J. B.", not John. :) ... You've just hit it: if you think you already do PSD, but what we describe is different from...
133889
J. B. Rainsberger
nails762
Jul 30, 2007 11:05 pm
... I have one to help customers describe customer tests. If they seem not to want to do it, or have trouble, then when they ask me to build the feature, I...
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Cory Foy
cory_foy
Jul 31, 2007 12:51 am
... I can think of a couple: - Is pair programming appropriate for this task? - Doing this Test-First seems like we won't get a lot of benefit for it. Can we...
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Robert Biddle
robtbiddle
Jul 31, 2007 1:33 am
... I would agree this is a typical way of thinking about things. But I don't think it reflects the way things really happen. The idea of "needs" is too...
133892
Chris Wheeler
chris_h_wheeler
Jul 31, 2007 2:10 am
... I like where Manuel is taking this, because unless an idea is banged on, it won't toughen up... That said, I think one can justify anything as a Good...
133893
Chris Wheeler
chris_h_wheeler
Jul 31, 2007 2:27 am
... Robert, I am so glad you said this because I've experienced this. I can't quite describe in any concise fashion what happens when both 'sides' get together...
133894
J. B. Rainsberger
nails762
Jul 31, 2007 4:12 am
... Agreed. I wasn't trying to stop Manuel from asking questions; I just answered the one he asked. ... You might be right. However, if you give me a GBR not...
133895
Manuel Klimek
manuel.klimek
Jul 31, 2007 8:25 am
Joe, (sorry for getting the name wrong) ... In a different thread people here hit me with a trout for theoretically pondering over the business value of...
133896
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Jul 31, 2007 11:29 am
... Agreed. Teams and individuals who try to communicate, and who find themselves in a conducive environment, can generally collaborate quite effectively. It's...
133897
Joseph Little
jhlittle1
Jul 31, 2007 12:18 pm
Hi all, A San Antonio agile group (affiliated with Agile Alliance and APLN) is starting. We are having an organizational meeting Wed night at 7pm. Contact me...
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Tim Ottinger
linux_tim
Jul 31, 2007 1:28 pm
Dave I think your "everybody" includes only mentally healthy people, not the sickos who can't stop working just because the clock ticks over one too many...
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Christopher K. Joiner...
ckjoinerjr
Jul 31, 2007 8:38 pm
FYI: The next Agile Philly meeting will be presented by Comcast. The meeting starts at 6:30PM on *Tuesday, August 7th* and directions and location of the ...
