Let me wade a little further into the jungle. If we presume that in a typical application (Pareto Principle) perhaps 80% of our code is using existing...
157700
Joshua Kerievsky
jlk112067
May 14, 2012 11:50 am
... Terminology lives within a context. Our context is lean/agile transitions. Our objective as coaches is to help folks improve people's skills as rapidly as...
157701
PAUL
beckfordp...
May 14, 2012 12:27 pm
Hi Joshua, ... Evidence? Sounds very confrontational. I've got examples yes. The language of Domain Driven Design, Eric Evans work. He comes up with new names...
157702
Buddha Buck
buddhabuck
May 14, 2012 12:30 pm
... The more I think about this question, the less it makes sense to me. In TDD, the tests+refactoring are driving the design. I would think that in a TDD'd...
157703
PAUL
beckfordp...
May 14, 2012 12:32 pm
Hi Dave, ... Yes. The avoidance of prior package does have it's advantages. Microtest is a new term to me, so in this discussion is a barrier to communication....
157704
MarvinToll.com
y153446
May 14, 2012 12:35 pm
hmmm... this is a little tricky. Is the "whim" associated with the content or the marketing term? I have six years of emergent content I'm marketing on a...
157705
MarvinToll.com
y153446
May 14, 2012 12:39 pm
Ah... yes... and the implication is that IF an applicable formalized "pattern" is discovered - and implemented... those unit tests that led to the discovery...
157706
M. Manca
micronpn
May 14, 2012 12:40 pm
... Dan North proposed BDD and its therminolgy as an answer to questions and confusion he reported teaching TDD. What do you think about? Had he clarified some...
157707
Adrian Howard
ajh65537
May 14, 2012 12:54 pm
... Like? DDD seems interestingly different from the Shlaer-Mellor method in the same way that "stories" are interestingly different from what most people call...
157708
PAUL
beckfordp...
May 14, 2012 12:55 pm
Hi, ... I think Dan has been very explicit about his intent, and he makes numerous references to TDD. AFAIK he has never claimed that BDD was something other...
157709
PAUL
beckfordp...
May 14, 2012 1:03 pm
Hi Adrian, An interesting point of view. I agree that Erics book covers much more then Schlaer-Mellor, for the size of it you would expect it to :) I agree...
157710
M. Manca
micronpn
May 14, 2012 1:11 pm
... He said he would provide a better definition of BDD later, but in my knowledge he didn't. So in my mind I use this scheme to think about: there is a set of...
157711
Joshua Kerievsky
jlk112067
May 14, 2012 1:12 pm
... I'm simply not aware of how you could tell if someone created a new term after careful consideration or on a whim. ... He runs an email list on DDD. You...
157712
PAUL
beckfordp...
May 14, 2012 1:29 pm
hi Joshua, I can't tell anyone's whims :) Bad choice of words. It would be nice to see more citations and some justification for introducing new language I...
157713
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370
May 14, 2012 3:58 pm
Hi Paul, ... Sticking with this single example, I have to say that you seem to have missed Joshua's point. The rapidity with which many of us have adopted ...
157714
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370
May 14, 2012 4:06 pm
Hi Paul ... I think we're a tad off the topic here: Eric decided to write a particular type of book, long on how-to and short on references in your view. I...
157715
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370
May 14, 2012 4:19 pm
Hi Massimo, <snip/> ... I wrote it earlier, but I must object again! There *is* no TDD syntax. TDD is done in a wide variety of languages using a variety of...
157716
M. Manca
micronpn
May 14, 2012 4:40 pm
... Yes, it is not correct to say that TDD has its own syntax. There are many unit (and not unit) test frameworks with their own rules to follow. I think it...
157717
Adam Sroka
adam.sroka@...
May 14, 2012 4:42 pm
I don't think this is fair. There have been a proliferation of TDD frameworks based on xUnit, and there have also been a proliferation of BDD frameworks based...
157718
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370
May 14, 2012 4:43 pm
Hi Marvin, I write tests for code I create. I only know how to test code, not patterns. Following the link, it appears that CachingSingleton is your ...
157719
M. Manca
micronpn
May 14, 2012 4:58 pm
... Yes, as for legacy code or also to test libraries classes/functions that were written by others. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]...
157720
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370
May 14, 2012 4:59 pm
Hi Adam, Except for the first sentence, you appear to be agreeing with everything I wrote - or at least with what I imagine my writing to mean. What exactly is...
157721
Adam Sroka
adam.sroka@...
May 14, 2012 5:04 pm
It is an oversimplification to say that there is a specific syntax for BDD and not for TDD. There are common syntactic elements and significant deviations...
157722
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370
May 14, 2012 5:33 pm
Hi Adam, Right... what I meant is that BDD proponents seem to dictate syntax in a way that I had not seen done before BDD. I didn't mean that each of them...
157723
MarvinToll.com
y153446
May 14, 2012 7:22 pm
The notion of testing patterns starts with defining a pattern. In the case of the Caching Singleton referenced, Joshua Bloch has defined the pattern. (...
157724
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
May 14, 2012 7:38 pm
Marvin, you have the cart before the horse again. What matters is whether the code reliably meets the requirements, not how well it complies with some pattern....
157725
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370
May 14, 2012 7:44 pm
Hi Marvin, On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 12:21 PM, MarvinToll.com ... Actually, I believe it really starts with observing a pattern present in some code. At some...
157726
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370
May 14, 2012 7:50 pm
Hi Steve, ... It's subtle. I think it's OK to start with a pattern _in_your_head_. It would be a form of premature commitment to simply go ahead and implement...
157727
Nayan Hajratwala
nhajratw
May 14, 2012 8:01 pm
On May 14, 2012, at 3:22 PM, "MarvinToll.com" <MarvinToll@...> wrote: Said another way, we normally don't test that dependent frameworks 'work'... we...
157728
RonJeffries
RonaldEJeffries
May 14, 2012 9:49 pm
Marvin, ... Well, to begin with, TDD is not a kind of "unit testing". Given that we are implementing some capability, what we write tests for, in a loop, is...
