I've forgotten ~87% of what I used to know about using cards to stay focused without losing track of the important trails that we discover along the way. What...
158545
John Carter
refactored
Mar 13, 2013 3:48 am
So Alastair Cockburn <http://alistair.cockburn.us/> came by this furthest corner of the planet and gave refreshing breeze of good sense.... But one thing he...
158546
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370
Mar 13, 2013 4:07 am
I've worked with XP teams where every issue reported became a story or a part of a story. We didn't have a bug tracker. Problems found when a story was...
158547
Adrian Howard
ajh65537
Mar 13, 2013 4:20 am
I can't speak for Alastair as to what he meant - but there are at least a few more options: i) There are little to no issues being tracked since they are fixed...
158548
George Dinwiddie
gdinwiddie
Mar 13, 2013 4:20 am
John, I've seen a team of ordinary programmers reach the state of frequently shipping zero bugs (even measured after deployment), and quickly taking care of...
158549
John Carter
refactored
Mar 13, 2013 4:42 am
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 5:20 PM, George Dinwiddie ... This is the Very Interesting Answer which I would like to bring home to the rest of the company.... My...
158550
George Dinwiddie
gdinwiddie
Mar 13, 2013 4:52 am
John, ... Do you think that will convince them? It didn't even convince the organization around them. The comment on their first release, when 92% of the...
158551
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370
Mar 13, 2013 5:57 am
Hi George, Maybe we should just say "Yes, we cheated. And we figured out a way to keep cheating, so that tests keep passing. Do you want us to stop?" Charlie ...
158552
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Mar 13, 2013 10:35 am
Hello, John, ... I have to say that I'm a bit surprised to see you asking this question. Alistair's point is that good teams don't have very many defects....
158553
George Dinwiddie
gdinwiddie
Mar 13, 2013 10:50 am
Charlie, ... Yes, it was amazing to me that anyone would want to treat software release like a pop test. - George -- ... * George Dinwiddie *...
158554
steveropa
Mar 13, 2013 2:19 pm
I had the same experience, and it actually got me laid off. Our team was consistently producing zero bugs, or if something did escape, it was so small and...
158555
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Mar 13, 2013 3:51 pm
Hi Steve, ... This sounds like a communication problem to me ... was it? Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com If another does not intend offense, it is wrong for...
158556
Curtis Cooley
TheDarkSavant
Mar 13, 2013 3:56 pm
... Or his organization was so dysfunctional he really won the layoff lottery. -- ... Curtis Cooley curtis@... [Non-text portions of this...
158557
Michal Svoboda
pht@...
Mar 13, 2013 6:00 pm
... Hi, ... as if there were other kinds of problems. ;-)...
158558
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Mar 13, 2013 6:12 pm
Hi Michal, ... Oh, there are. Like if the team doesn't know how to write code that works, and tests that demonstrate that fact. Of course one could argue that...
158559
Steve Smith
stevenator2
Mar 13, 2013 6:14 pm
I'm not sure who said it first (it wasn't me), but I like the quote: "If you have a process that is producing defects, then you have a defective process." ...
158560
Keith Ray
attkeithray
Mar 13, 2013 6:28 pm
Can I quote you on that ? (Twitter) C. Keith Ray http://agilesolutionspace.blogspot.com/ twitter: @ckeithray...
158561
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
Mar 13, 2013 7:16 pm
... A dangerous quote - it is people who do or do not produce defects. Processes can only help or hinder. A process that attempts to make it impossible for...
158562
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Mar 13, 2013 7:37 pm
Hi Steven, ... Could you perhaps phrase this idea in such a way as to do two things that this does not: First, offer advice on what one might do, rather than...
158563
John Carter
refactored
Mar 13, 2013 7:57 pm
... Problems found later became a (possibly high priority) story. That is effectively, although perhaps not consciously, the "lean manufacturing" route. ie....
158564
Steve Smith
stevenator2
Mar 13, 2013 8:20 pm
One might try to create an uber-prescriptive process that makes defects impossible - and it might be successful, in that it might prevent any work at all from...
158565
Steve Smith
stevenator2
Mar 13, 2013 8:21 pm
Sure, I'm @ardalis and I actually tweeted it myself right after posting this... :) ... -- Steve Smith http://Ardalis.com/ http://twitter.com/ardalis [Non-text...
158566
John Carter
refactored
Mar 13, 2013 8:24 pm
... One push back I always get is "You can't expect zero bugs on the scale of software we're doing (200+ man years multi-threaded embedded C). Of course you...
158567
George Dinwiddie
gdinwiddie
Mar 13, 2013 8:37 pm
John, ... I think this is another case of expecting to get bugs and then getting them. ... Part of the issue with scaling, is the implicit expectation to do...
158568
Steven Gordon
sfman2k
Mar 13, 2013 8:45 pm
... I would agree with offering advice, but I would prefer not to prescribe it. In practice, teams generally follow said advice much better if they own it. ......
158569
Charlie Poole
cpoole98370
Mar 13, 2013 9:48 pm
Hi John, I can't prove it but I feel intuitively (and my experience matches the feeling) that bug "injection" is related more closely to rate of code change...
158570
Ron Jeffries
RonaldEJeffries
Mar 13, 2013 10:42 pm
Hi John, ... Do you work one day at a time? Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Sometimes you just have to stop holding on with both hands, both feet, and your...
158571
Michal Svoboda
pht@...
Mar 14, 2013 11:12 am
... Fair enough. But I would say that's a natural occurrence, or imperfection if you will. No-one is born with coding skills, we all learn. Now if or how big...
158572
Kay A Pentecost
tranzpuppy
Mar 15, 2013 12:22 am
+1 ... magic....
158573
JeffGrigg
jeffgrigg63132
Mar 16, 2013 9:56 pm
... It turns out that our industry has ridiculously low standards. Embarrassingly low standards. Well of course you will never achieve /absolutely zero/...
