Ron, ... Agreed on both counts. ... Ah. Or maybe "we tried XP and it didn't work." I can see that would be a problem if it keeps people from trying things. ......
... Yes. Used well, and tested well, they do that. When the code that uses ours doesn't expect the exceptions the assertions throw, sometimes very bad things...
... I'll post some code tomorrow. I use them... sparingly. I find myself writing a comment to clarify the code; and the only refactoring that applies is...
... Aren't assertions like exceptions? Aren't you the one that says a program shouldn't throw exceptions? ... Assertions are typically implemented as a hard...
... [Re: Royce Waterfall paper] ... Yes, it makes for quite an interesting read. Obviously, something has gone wrong with the interpretation of Waterfall early...
... Well, let me just say that some people STILL do write methods like that. And to make things even nicer, they get buried in a 10,000+ line file.... ... He...
... While it is perfectly OK to wonder why that virtual function is coming from a completely different class than we expected it to be :) The problem is not...
... Yes. That's why I keep asking why we don't remove the f'g things. ... I think it's possible to do a hard stop at one level and recover at another. C3 used...
... There wasn't specific support like namespaces or packages. But when I designed my programs I mentally grouped different functions into modules. -- "The...
... Hmm. I would agree with that for stand-alone apps, developed test-first from scratch. But for legacy and/or libraries that you hand off to non-XP teams? ...
... The bad things that HAVE happened (which were caught by assertions) were writing bad tests and bad code because I've forgotten the constraints of a class,...
C. Keith Ray wrote ... Why don't you just use a unit-test to do this? This isn't rhetorical - I've never understood the place of assertions in a unit-testing...
... Aren't unit tests simply out-of-band assertions? Or, to quote your caveat, "there must be something I'm missing" ... ;-) -- Dossy -- Dossy Shiobara...
... Hash: SHA1 ... You (the manager) watch the best people leave, ie the 20% that code 80% of your software. If this is the way their managed, the organisation...
... Hash: SHA1 ... Maybe. Maybe some developers don't trust the abstractions given to them and want to know what's really going on behind the curtain. ... Is...
... Hash: SHA1 ... Not in this way. One thing said to me once was roughly, this test first stuff is all very well but don't let it stop you thinking. Bill de...
... Hash: SHA1 ... For me the problems with line of dialog are: o you're weak, because you can't code without tests. o you're writing code that isn't...
Laurent Bossavit [mailto:laurent@...] ... It's not the "and so on" that was at issue, IMHO. It was the particular notion that the interactions of an...
Laurent Bossavit [mailto:laurent@...] ... No. But they did intentionally take the risk of the overflow. Like I said, what was wrong with their process...
Hi Dossy, ... Unit tests ensure that the unit does the right thing. Entry criteria assertions ensure that the unit's context does the right thing. So if the...
... Compare in your mind the relative clarity of relational database over hierarchic or network, maybe XML as an example. This clarity comes in large part...
... Okay, I keep hearing this "never ever use globals" thing and I just don't get it. I completely understand the desire to reduce the use of global...
My response would be "then don't". But I'm looking for a better explanation than that - I've found people say complicated when they mean unfamiliar. An OO...
John Hayes
john.hayes@...
Apr 1, 2002 5:57 pm
46678
... Good answers, thank you. People are asking whether unit tests are just out-of-line assertions. They are not. Here are two examples: You can't write a unit...
... Well, this sounds like it works well for your project so go for it. But what if you later decide to integrate the System Monitor into a suite of other...
... seriously, has ... Well, I once had a manager who probably would have given me that kind of resistance. It was early in my career, and I didn't yet know...
