Michelle wrote:
> > Also, did anyone on this list have invisible friends with no names?  >
>Sniglet carries 4 of her invisible friends along with us in the van, > but
>she's not given them names.  I'm wondering if this is how she > feels in
>preK - never certain who is who but more than willing to be > friends.  Any
>ideas??
> >


Julie wrote:
>Becca used to have a friend called "Nothing".  And there was another called
>"Mr. Nobody".  I think they were born in "Lusasa".  Lusasa is a country
>where they follow all of Becca's "invisible rules".  (After all, think of
>all of OUR invisible rules that SHE is supposed to follow).
>


Cecilia:
I had no invisible human friends that I can remember. I had an uspecified
number of invisible apes and sharks. They had no names.

I have a question that I hope will not offend anyone. I have been wondering
if there is a connection between childrens belief in invisible friends, and
adults beliefs in invisible Gods.
You who had invisible friends with no names when you grew up, and who are
now adults. What is your thoughts and beliefs about God today? Again, I do
hope I am not offending anyone by asking this.

Kind Regards,
Cecilia






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Nothing of the kind has happened to me, and I appear on the web with both
name and photo.

:-)
Cecilia


>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michelle Wilson [mailto:mlwilson@...] Sent: den 1 mars 2003 04:50
>To: faceblind@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [faceblind] Question
>
>
>My husband has a question for the people who are faceblind in this group.
>He is very concerned that someone will take advantage of Sniglet once they
>know she is faceblind.  Like commit a crime against her because they know
>she can't ID them.  Is this something that's ever happened to anyone on
>this list?  Is it a concern?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Michelle
>





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Thanks, Cecilia. That's sort of what I thought.  I think there's a lot more risk
in not letting peers and teachers know that Sniglet is faceblind.

Michelle
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Cecilia Burman I do not read this inbox
   To: faceblind@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 5:42 AM
   Subject: RE: [faceblind] Question




   Nothing of the kind has happened to me, and I appear on the web with both
   name and photo.

   :-)
   Cecilia


   >-----Original Message-----
   >From: Michelle Wilson [mailto:mlwilson@...] Sent: den 1 mars 2003 04:50
   >To: faceblind@yahoogroups.com
   >Subject: [faceblind] Question
   >
   >
   >My husband has a question for the people who are faceblind in this group.
   >He is very concerned that someone will take advantage of Sniglet once they
   >know she is faceblind.  Like commit a crime against her because they know
   >she can't ID them.  Is this something that's ever happened to anyone on
   >this list?  Is it a concern?
   >
   >Thanks!
   >
   >Michelle
   >





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cecelia wrote:
I have a question that I hope will not offend anyone. I have been wondering
if there is a connection between childrens belief in invisible friends, and
adults beliefs in invisible Gods.
You who had invisible friends with no names when you grew up, and who are
now adults. What is your thoughts and beliefs about God today? Again, I do
hope I am not offending anyone by asking this.

Michelle Replied:
Actually, Sylvia Browne thinks that invisible friends are our spirit guides
whose job it is to make sure we fulfill our plan while here on earth.  She
thinks children can see them better than adults because they are closer to the
next world than adults.  Adults have forgotten the world from which they came. 
Sort of an interesting theory, I think.

Michelle






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Michelle,

I use to talk to Angelika about the face recognition problem, and I tell
her quite often, what features are very unusual at a special person.
She knows about her PA since she is 2.5 years and has no problem
now to tell me, from what she is recognizing somebody. Sometimes
she says " Oh, I don´t know, but that is xy" - I talked to several mothers
of children with congenital PA and they told me, that the cothes and
hair had been the first features - than when they get older they will get
the figure and the gait and other specialities:) of a person.

I think it is very usefull, if you will talk about the dresses, hairstyles ...


Martina

hello everyone -

several threads to pick up on, from mimi, mom of zeke, fb, and now almost
12....

crime against fb kids:
kids do pick on each other from time to time,
and zeke has been taunted and teased on occasion
after school by bigger kids he did not know,
at his previous school, and at a summer camp.

he could not id the kids who had harrassed him,
and that was an issue.
but the kids who did it had no idea about his vulnerability,
they just saw a smaller kid, alone, waiting to be picked up after school,
and an opportunity to bully someone.
I don't think most kids can conceive or believe in
zeke's fb condition.

at the summer camp,
zeke brought a friend and ally with him the following day,
at the same time and place in the schedule,
because he anticipated a repetition of the incident.
he was correct in his assessment, and his friend provided the id.
this was empowering.
that type of incident was not repeated.

our solution to the after-school situation was to ask for better
monitoring at the pick-up area,
(not very successful,)
to pick up zeke very promptly, after school,
and to change schools,
to one with a mellower population,
with more eccentric kids and greater acceptance for
individuality.
(these latter strategies were successful.)
--------------------

the same clothes:
zeke wore the same star trek suit to school
for the entire first semester of kindergarten.
i washed it at night,
patched the knees,
and lengthened the legs.
around the time i thought he ought to learn to launder it himself,
he gave it up.
but before that,
he had made friends with several kids of all ages
throughout the school, because of his 'uniform'.
everyone knew who he was and he became a sort of 6th grade mascot.
(this was at a small private school,
before he attended the neighborhood public school
highlighted in the previous story about bullies.)
------------------

pj's:
neither of our kids liked pajamas,
prefering to sleep in clothes.
i would have them change to clean clothes for bed,
and it made getting out in the morning
much easier,
especially when i had a preschooler and an infant.
the only time they wore pj's was on pj days
and at sleep-over parties,
where they wanted to 'fit in'.

now, zeke's sister, 15 and NT,
does wear (fashionable) pj's
to bed,
and around the house most of the weekend!

she had an imaginary friend for a while,
when 4-ish, but zeke did not.
for her, it was a matter of control of the grown-ups,
or at least that's how it seemed --
i.e. "don't sit on douglas!" or,
"douglas is hungry, please serve him more desert..."
she also had a 'crush' on the real douglas, at school.
-----------------

field trips:
is there a chance you
(or Sniglet's baby-sitter, grandma or other adult ally)
could go on some of the school field-trips
as a driver/chaperone?
with a special companion, as an anchor,
the trips may not be so scary.
our schools have always wanted volunteer
parent chaperones.
---------------

other special outfit school days:
while pj day at preschool was not a problem,
special 'school olympics' days at the neighborhood public school were.
kids wore a uniform of jeans and school t-shirts on these days.
i just kept zeke home.
but this was only once a year.

interestingly, halloween was not a problem.
the costumes were all different,
and everyone had recognition issues!
zeke loved it.

-mimi

Greetings from Washington State, USA-- I joined the list late last year but
there was so little activity and I was so busy researching other issues that
I never got around to writing an intro. Bill and Mimi were indispensable in
helping diagnose my 7yo son, as were Brad Duchaine and Rob Jones, whose work
I appreciate.

I knew Joey had difficulty recognizing people when he was in preschool, but
when I brought this to teachers' attention they'd smirk and say "He knows
perfectly well who that is!" Joey struggled in school, behaviorally, and
presented other traits and last year was diagnosed with Sensory Integration
Dysfunction, and possibly Asperger Syndrome (AS). The jury is still out, but
since it seems much of his family on both sides has ASD (autism spectrum
disorder) "traits", and ADHD traits as well, the connection seems to be
well-established in our extended family.

My husband-- who is an ADHD-type, detail-oriented person with generous social
skills-- has PA and TA and it appears his father has at least PA. I'm not
sure if his brother has it-- but the brother probably meets criteria for AS.
There is a lot of social phobia in that nuclear family which I read is
related to the AS traits. My 9yo son has been characterized as ADHD and he
also has several SI issues, but not PA.

My sister, who is pretty much NT and a highly intelligent, vivacious, social
person, has PA, and while her son does not, he meets criteria for Asperger's.
Her daughter has neither PA nor AS but does have a lot of SI issues. In our
family we have others with suspect ASD traits, but haven't researched the
possibility of others having PA.

I'm a little overwhelmed by the interconnectedness of it all, and by the
sudden explanation of a lot of MY traits. I've got several sensory issues--
nothing to cause "dyfunction" but just enough to add to the genetic pool. I
have to turn off the car radio in order to locate addresses. I can't process
auditorily unless I have my glasses on, and I also have developed hyperacusis
in one ear. I have a few tactile issues and am clearly what they call
"sensory seeking" as is my husband and both boys.

Oddly, I have the opposite of PA-- I have the ability to pick out faces of
people I haven't seen in years-- but otherwise am not a very observant
person, and not one you'd characterize as detail-oriented like my husband and
son with PA. In fact, I've always chided myself for not being observant-- for
instance, while I remember faces, I never, ever remember what people are
wearing.

Oh, and I just can't dress myself properly! What kind of a "nerd" trait is
that???

Enough of this. If you don't mind I'll take this lazy Saturday to respond to
other posts which I found interesting.

Susan


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 2/28/03 6:27:14 AM Pacific Standard Time, leif@...
writes:

> Might sound quite odd to some of you, but I don't believe we have a
> damaged facial-recognition system. I believe it's fully functional, but
> out-of-tune with modern facial composition. That would indeed explain
> why so many face-blind people use HAIR and hairlines for recognizing
> people.

I subscribed to the Neanderthal theory long before I knew it existed, and
long before I knew my 7yo Joey had PA. He was able to run barefooted over
barnacled rocks on the beach, at night, with no apparent discomfort. But he
was also unusually sensitive to the lightest touch, which we found confusing,
until he was diagnosed with Sensory Integration Disorder. They say his wires
are crossed but it seemed to me that people with Joey's tangled neurological
system would have a genetic advantage in primitive conditions where shoes are
unheard of and a sensitivity to touch could be a lifesaving defense
mechanism. Because we live in the U.S. I've imagined him as one who would
have made a very successful Native American warrior.

I don't know where PA fits into this theory but I do believe it could be just
as important an atavistic throwback as other sensory-related traits.

Susan
Washington State USA
"Tempus Puget"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 2/28/03 12:13:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mwilson@... writes:


> ?  They are hard for Sniglet because the kids all have different clothes and
> shoes on those days.
>
>
Do they normally wear the same clothes/shoes everyday, as in a uniform? Hmmm,
I can't see why that would be easier. My Joey (7yo) attended a private school
for Kindergarten last year, and I'm guessing the uniforms were confusing,
although we didn't understand his face recognition problem at that time. Now
he's in public school and kids wear different clothes every day. He pretty
much keeps to himself, partly because of PA, and partly because of his ASD
traits, but seems to recognize people by their height, weight, hair, and
other features, not clothes at this point. I know he has problems identifying
kids-- kids call "hi" to him in the hall and he just puts his head down-- so
we've been working on having him return the "hi" with a smile, whether he
recognizes them or not.

I haven't explained to Joey yet about his PA because it's only been about 4
months since we diagnosed it and I wanted to spend time observing and testing
without being obvious. But we have talked a lot about his "special" brain,
and how everyone has one, with different abilities and qualities.

He's never mentioned imaginary friends but I -- without PA-- went through a
period of childhood where I invented several. In my case I think it was
because I was jealous of some of my friends with their very large extended
families and I wanted to populate my life a little more. Which was silly, in
retrospect, because I did have a lot of friends, but I guess I just wanted
more. On the other hand, I also gave names and ascribed personalities to my
blanket (Jerry) and to inanimate objects such as an extensive marble
collection. I've talked with others who think this is related to the Aspie
trait of "attachment to objects".

My sister grew up unaware she had PA and was a quiet, shy child, until she
blossomed as a teen. We always attended schools with uniforms and I'm sure
this affected her, but perhaps honed her skills remembering details? Her
funniest story is about going out on a date with a guy one night, and then,
the next day, having a group of friends over to the house and describing the
date, unaware that the young man was present!! I think there's an important
lesson there, to teach our children to make sure they can identify listeners
before they speak-- but this is something we should all do, eh?

Susan
Washington State
"Tempus Puget"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 2/28/03 2:10:34 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mjane@... writes:
>
>
>
> When I was in first grade, I insisted on wearing the
> same clothes to school every day.

But Jane, is this a faceblind trait or an Aspie trait? My 7yo faceblind Aspie
son has that preference for "sameness" and refuses to wear new clothes, but
only those he hasn't seen before. He wears his brother's hand-me-downs
because they are familiar. From this I learned to hang new clothes on the
bedpost for weeks, until they etched in his brain. Then he'd wear them.

I'm not faceblind, nor am I an Aspie, but I carry AS traits and have the same
preference for "sameness". I drove my mother and sister crazy for years with
my limited choice in clothing. Mainly whites, khakis, browns. When I was in
my 20's my mother forced a red turtleneck on me; it hung in my closet for
months before I could put it on, and then I wore it for years, only
discarding it when it became a rag.

My sister and husband are both faceblind and neither has a problem with
clothes. In fact, my sister has always had a knack for coordinating outfits,
and so has been my sartorial mentor. ;)

Susan
Washington State
"Tempus Puget"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 2/28/03 5:13:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, mlwilson@...
writes:


> What sort of visual impairment does your daughter have?  Sniglet has mild
> CVI and probable simultagnosia.

This is fascinating and I'm just now beginning to learn about the relatedness
of vision anomalies to my Joey's PA or Asperger traits. Right now I am pretty
clueless about his vision profile, other than he is extraordinarly
visual-spatial. Besides that, a couple of years ago he had a standard
ophthalmalogical test and passed without incident. Recently, a school
administered test rated his vision 20/30. Reading difficulties have revealed
a tracking problem, but so far nothing else. Thoughts?

Oh, by the way, you know those games that have answers to questions hidden
with a pattern of colored dots, and you need to use an overlay to read the
answer? The games "Password" and "Cranium Cadoo" (and probably other Cranium
games) use this method. Joey can read the answer easily without the overlay.
So can I, but not my husband or other son. I queried a set of people and
found some who can, but most cannot, although perhaps they've never tried.
Have you?

Susan
Washington State
"Tempus Puget"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 3/1/03 2:43:14 AM Pacific Standard Time,
cecilia_burman@... writes:


> . I have been wondering
> if there is a connection between childrens belief in invisible friends, and
>
> adults beliefs in invisible Gods.
>

I think this is a very interesting question. Recently, on a message board for
"gifted" children, someone posed the same question, and the answers were
fascinating.

I'm not faceblind but my sister and husband are. My sister has an unwavering
faith in God; my husband has faith in God but it's more from childhood
indoctrination than personal journey. My 9yo NT son has never questioned the
existence of God; he accepts it blindly. My 7yo faceblind Aspie questions it
all the time. He has never accepted the existence of a God he cannot see, but
I have no idea if this is related to his PA, his AS, or his extreme
giftedness. (Not to suggest that someone higly intelligent would not have
faith in God-- not at all--but it just adds an intellectual component that
the rest of us aren't blessed with.)

Susan
Washington State
"Tempus Puget"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michelle,

Becca has ocular albinism.  This is a form of albinism, but the pigment is
mising in the retina, she is blonde but does have pigment in her skin to
tan. Her near vision is very good, she can read small print, loves reading.
Beyond 6 feet her vision is less and less -- she can see big signs at a
distance, but definitely not a child at the other end of the block in the
neighborhood.

Kids with albinism often have delayed visual development, so that Becca saw
very little in the first months, a critical period for developing facial
recognition.

Now that she has been in the same school for the second year, I barely
notice the faceblindness, whereas last year it was a very noticeable
problem.  But, there are only 12 kids in kindergarten and 1st grade classes
combined.  Next year we are sending her to public school, and probably it
will be quite noticeable again.  Except, I think that now she is able to
intentionally use strategies to remember who is who, and also is beginning
to use strategies to cope with challenging situations.  Like at Brownies (25
girls), Becca always goes to sit next to a particular girl with long dark
hair, who is very affectionate.  (Becca has lots of behavior problems at
Brownies, though, that I don't see at school, so I  know it's hard for her,
at least it's only once every two weeks).

It would be so hard to remember who is who by clothing, you'd have to
memorize it each day, or remember the sort of clothing a person wore.  Shoes
would be easier.  It might help if the kids wore the same shoes on PJ day --
maybe the teachers could ask parents to have kids wear regular shoes,
pretend it's a safety issue.

Dealing with anxiety is a really big problem.  I think, when you are missing
so many cues (for Becca, facial expressions, "invisible" social rules), you
really begin to rely on other things remaining constant.  So any change can
be pretty upsetting -- changes in seating arrangements, routines.  Becca is
coping pretty well with people at school, but her overall anxiety is
increasing as she is more and more aware of the social expectations.


Julie

Julie





on 2/28/03 8:12 PM, Michelle  Wilson at mlwilson@... wrote:

>
> Julie wrote:
>
> My daughter is 7, and has a mild visual impairment and PDD.nos (more or less
> high functioning autism, Asperger's).  The faceblindness has been less of an
> issue in the past year, although before it was a big concern to me.
> However, she is in a very tiny private 1st grade and by now knows the
> children very well.
>
> We did a lot of work with pictures - from magazines, from real people,
> everything.  We did alot of describing hair styles, color and texture, and
> attention to details like glasses.  I notice that she really prefers girls
> with long dark hair.  Since she focuses on hair and voice, the changes of
> clothes are less traumatic.  Of course this year the school started with
> uniforms, I was really scared, but it was okay due to the small number of
> kids.  She also has a few girls she is closest too, who will hold hands and
> hug and this is very reassuring -- finding a very outgoing friend who will
> always make the initiation helped.
>
> Michelle replied:
> Julie,
> It's great your daughter is coping so well.  Sniglet is unable to tell people
> apart by voice, hair color or eye color.  She can sometimes tell if they have
> glasses.
>
> What sort of visual impairment does your daughter have?  Sniglet has mild CVI
> and probable simultagnosia.
>
> Jule wrote:
> Becca used to have a friend called "Nothing".  And there was another called
> "Mr. Nobody".  I think they were born in "Lusasa".  Lusasa is a country
> where they follow all of Becca's "invisible rules".  (After all, think of
> all of OUR invisible rules that SHE is supposed to follow).
>
> Michelle replied:
> Interesting that both children did not/have not given their invisible friends
> real people names.  Sniglet's friends only appear when she is stressed, like
> on PJ days or field trip days.  Since she won't have either in the future, I
> wonder if her invisible no name friends will disappear.
>
> Michelle
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> faceblind-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

what is a pj day?----- Original Message -----
   From: Glenn Alperin
   To: faceblind@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 4:56 PM
   Subject: Re: [faceblind] PJ Days and Invisible Friends


   Michelle Wilson wrote:
   >
   > Hi,
   >
   > Our daughter is 5 and has PA amongst a variety of other things.  We've given
   > up on PJ days at preK.  They are just too hard on Sniglet.  She made it
   > through the PJ day yesterday, only to melt down when she got home - this is
   > very uncharacteristic of her.  Anyone on this list have any good ideas for
   > dealing with PJ days?  They are hard for Sniglet because the kids all have
   > different clothes and shoes on those days.

   The only way I can think of to "deal with" the PJ days might be to just get
   a heads up from the teachers when/if they are going to be planned again,
   and opt to give Sniglet the day off from school altogether for that one day.

   > Also, did anyone on this list have invisible friends with no names?
   > Sniglet carries 4 of her invisible friends along with us in the van, but
   > she's not given them names.  I'm wondering if this is how she feels in
   > preK - never certain who is who but more than willing to be friends.
   > Any ideas??

   I tried invisible friends once or twice when I was very young.  I must
   admit I had a very difficult time convincing even myself of their
   "existance", so I never really tried after the first time or two in
   which I did.

   > Thanks!
   >
   > Michelle

   Glenn


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elizabeth Hensley wrote:
>
> what is a pj day?----- Original Message -----

It is customary in many schools to do things which break up the monotony of
actually going to and being in school.  One tactic which teachers often use
with much success is to allow the students on certain specific days to dress
up in a manner quite uncustomary of actually being in school.  It often
allows the students to learn a little bit more about each other's personal
styles, and everybody knows that most children have a rather incredible
imagination, and this gives the students yet another layer for which to use
their minds at play.  This is all good and well, of course, for students
and teachers and parents who use the face as the primary recognition mechanism,
but for a child with PA, it can be quite traumatic walking into a room filled
with people who are not wearing the same clothing you expect them to be wearing,
and as a result, each person looks even more like a total stranger than they
did the previous day.

Glenn

Elizabeth -
pj day is pajama day.
kids wear their pajamas, bedroom slippers and bathrobes to school.
-mimi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Hensley" <lhensley@...>
To: <faceblind@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: [faceblind] PJ Days and Invisible Friends


> what is a pj day

Michelle Wilson wrote:
>
> My husband has a question for the people who are faceblind in this group.
> He is very concerned that someone will take advantage of Sniglet once they
> know she is faceblind.  Like commit a crime against her because they know
> she can't ID them.  Is this something that's ever happened to anyone on this
> list?  Is it a concern?

I've talked about this topic off-list with several different people on several
different occasions.  What follows is my particular experiences related to this,
in addition to some helpful advice I've gleaned from talking with others about
it.

I remember being absolutely petrified, as a child, when I learned that there
were people who were "not nice" (which I mean from the child's-eye view, as
it would probably hold a very different meaning if those words were used in
an adult perspective) and I became quite fearful of the very possibility
you bring up here.  Even today, I can not really shake the notion that this
particular fear of mine, persistant even to this day, is perhaps not quite
rational.  I still possess this fear, at least to some degree.

On days in which pictures were taken for the purposes of promotion of the
school that I was attending at the time, my parents refused to sign a
release allowing the photographer to take pictures of me for purposes
of publicity for the school.  Obviously, they shared similar concerns
with me, though admittedly, by that point in time, I really didn't quite
understand the whole deal.  I did feel a little left out at the time,
but looking back on it now, I'm certain it was the wiser move to have been
made.

A while back, for my own purposes, I had my mother take some pictures of
me from various angles so that I could scan them and post them on the
web for a very small group of people to see.  She was afraid that other
people might run across those pictures, and I had to assure her that I had
no intention whatsoever of making those pictures viewable to anybody except
for the small group of people whom I intended to view them.  They were not
linked up with my web site at all.

You asked if it was a concern.  Certainly, it should be a concern, but
there are also ways in which to approach this to lessen the concern.
When I was young, a code word was created.  (This was actually an idea
that I had suggested based upon a public service ad campaign I had seen on
television offering a similar suggestion.)  If anybody wanted me to go
with them, they had to know the code word, because I wasn't going to go
with them unless they said it.  Even to this day, I remember what the word
was, though strangely enough, I had some difficulty initially implanting
it into my head.  Whether or not this approach will work with Sniglet,
giving the specific hearing/cognitive difficulties involved, I can not say.
I don't think it can hurt to try.  Alternatively, you can create some kind
of family sound or guesture that only people in the family and close friends
are aware of.  I mentioned a while ago that in my family there has always
been the family whistle.  I know that if I hear that specific whistle, I
should try and locate its source, and then I will probably locate a
person trying to grab my attention with a large hand motion.

Obviously, I can't say if Sniglet experiences the same level of fear that
I did when I was only slightly older.  I don't really remember quite when
I became sufficiently self-aware to notice that I had substantial problems
with recognition, but I'm certain that I had one of my first experiences
in kindergarten when my parents were looking for a suitable school for me,
and evidently, they picked the wrong one for me to try out one day.  I
wound up letting the person whom I thought was my tormentor really have
it.  I can't remember for certain if I slugged the person (if such can
be called a person) or bit him.  In any event, I wound up feeling quite
foolish when asked, "Why did you do that?" because all I could really say
was something like "He was teasing me." which got a reply of "I was not."
from the person in question, and since I knew even then I had no way to
tell for certain if it really was that person or not....well, I think you
get the idea.  I don't want to say that what I did was proper.  Looking
back on the incident, it certainly was not, but I don't think it would be
unreasonable to expect similar behavior from similarly challenged
individuals of that age group should they encounter a similar situation.

I should stress again that for all intents and purposes, almost everybody
winds up being a stranger to such a child.  The whole concept of
"Don't talk to strangers" is a ridiculous idea to a person who firmly
believes that all people are strangers until they can be proven to be
friends.  Even now, I can't really trust my intuition on this since it
fails me far more often than it helps me.  I'm much safer as an adult
assuming that all people are strangers until proven otherwise.  With this
in mind, I think I limit the chances that people might take to do things
to me since I'm pretty much suspicious of everybody.  While this may
lead to a safer appraoch to life for me, it also has its significant
down sides, specifically, it leads to what I can only call a
self-social-isolation.  I pretty much choose to be on my own most of the
time largely because I never really learned how to trust people
quickly.  It may thus be wiser for you to teach Sniglet that it is okay,
and probably even proper, for Sniglet to be afraid of strangers, but that
will come at a high social cost.  At some point, I decided it was safer for
me to trust nobody, and in the end, that ultimately made me quite bitter.
My more recent approach is to still initially trust nobody, but to leave
open the possibility that some people might become worthy of being
trusted.  To date, thats the best I've been able to muster for myself
and still hold onto my sanity and the hope that I won't become socially
burned because I limit my opportunities to be burned.  I do lose a lot
of potential social relationships in the process though, largely because
I'm not so willing to trust people.

I really can't say what the better answer is.  As I said, it seems to work
for me, but the cost does appear quite steep.

> Thanks!

You're welcome!  Once again, I've managed to write an essay in response to
a simple paragraph.  ;-)  I hope you don't mind that much.

> Michelle

Glenn

Susan:
> I subscribed to the Neanderthal theory long before I knew it existed, and
> long before I knew my 7yo Joey had PA.

I'd suspect some other people than myself got this idea. :-)
Nobody seems to have researched it thorouhgly, though.

> He was able to run barefooted over
> barnacled rocks on the beach, at night, with no apparent discomfort. But he
> was also unusually sensitive to the lightest touch, which we found confusing,
> until he was diagnosed with Sensory Integration Disorder.

Never heard of that diagnosis before. Seems to be another example of
something many aspies posseses.

> They say his wires
> are crossed but it seemed to me that people with Joey's tangled neurological
> system would have a genetic advantage in primitive conditions where shoes are
> unheard of and a sensitivity to touch could be a lifesaving defense
> mechanism.

Yes, I do too. However, I also know many aspies who don't care much about
cloth at all. Our sun really likes to run around naked at our house, and I
usually
wear out me cloth completely. I think this fits into the theory, because
Neanderthals didn't have cloth. They had something far better, fur.

> I don't know where PA fits into this theory but I do believe it could be just
> as important an atavistic throwback as other sensory-related traits.

I think it comes in because the facial recognition system is fine-tumed on
modern human faces, and if you posses a Neanderthal face recognotion
system, this will largely fail.

Leif

Glenn,

Thanks very much for sharing your experiences.  I like the idea of a code word.

Michelle
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Glenn Alperin
   To: faceblind@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 1:49 AM
   Subject: Re: [faceblind] Question


   Michelle Wilson wrote:
   >
   > My husband has a question for the people who are faceblind in this group.
   > He is very concerned that someone will take advantage of Sniglet once they
   > know she is faceblind.  Like commit a crime against her because they know
   > she can't ID them.  Is this something that's ever happened to anyone on this
   > list?  Is it a concern?

   I've talked about this topic off-list with several different people on several
   different occasions.  What follows is my particular experiences related to
this,
   in addition to some helpful advice I've gleaned from talking with others about
   it.

   I remember being absolutely petrified, as a child, when I learned that there
   were people who were "not nice" (which I mean from the child's-eye view, as
   it would probably hold a very different meaning if those words were used in
   an adult perspective) and I became quite fearful of the very possibility
   you bring up here.  Even today, I can not really shake the notion that this
   particular fear of mine, persistant even to this day, is perhaps not quite
   rational.  I still possess this fear, at least to some degree.

   On days in which pictures were taken for the purposes of promotion of the
   school that I was attending at the time, my parents refused to sign a
   release allowing the photographer to take pictures of me for purposes
   of publicity for the school.  Obviously, they shared similar concerns
   with me, though admittedly, by that point in time, I really didn't quite
   understand the whole deal.  I did feel a little left out at the time,
   but looking back on it now, I'm certain it was the wiser move to have been
   made.

   A while back, for my own purposes, I had my mother take some pictures of
   me from various angles so that I could scan them and post them on the
   web for a very small group of people to see.  She was afraid that other
   people might run across those pictures, and I had to assure her that I had
   no intention whatsoever of making those pictures viewable to anybody except
   for the small group of people whom I intended to view them.  They were not
   linked up with my web site at all.

   You asked if it was a concern.  Certainly, it should be a concern, but
   there are also ways in which to approach this to lessen the concern.
   When I was young, a code word was created.  (This was actually an idea
   that I had suggested based upon a public service ad campaign I had seen on
   television offering a similar suggestion.)  If anybody wanted me to go
   with them, they had to know the code word, because I wasn't going to go
   with them unless they said it.  Even to this day, I remember what the word
   was, though strangely enough, I had some difficulty initially implanting
   it into my head.  Whether or not this approach will work with Sniglet,
   giving the specific hearing/cognitive difficulties involved, I can not say.
   I don't think it can hurt to try.  Alternatively, you can create some kind
   of family sound or guesture that only people in the family and close friends
   are aware of.  I mentioned a while ago that in my family there has always
   been the family whistle.  I know that if I hear that specific whistle, I
   should try and locate its source, and then I will probably locate a
   person trying to grab my attention with a large hand motion.

   Obviously, I can't say if Sniglet experiences the same level of fear that
   I did when I was only slightly older.  I don't really remember quite when
   I became sufficiently self-aware to notice that I had substantial problems
   with recognition, but I'm certain that I had one of my first experiences
   in kindergarten when my parents were looking for a suitable school for me,
   and evidently, they picked the wrong one for me to try out one day.  I
   wound up letting the person whom I thought was my tormentor really have
   it.  I can't remember for certain if I slugged the person (if such can
   be called a person) or bit him.  In any event, I wound up feeling quite
   foolish when asked, "Why did you do that?" because all I could really say
   was something like "He was teasing me." which got a reply of "I was not."
   from the person in question, and since I knew even then I had no way to
   tell for certain if it really was that person or not....well, I think you
   get the idea.  I don't want to say that what I did was proper.  Looking
   back on the incident, it certainly was not, but I don't think it would be
   unreasonable to expect similar behavior from similarly challenged
   individuals of that age group should they encounter a similar situation.

   I should stress again that for all intents and purposes, almost everybody
   winds up being a stranger to such a child.  The whole concept of
   "Don't talk to strangers" is a ridiculous idea to a person who firmly
   believes that all people are strangers until they can be proven to be
   friends.  Even now, I can't really trust my intuition on this since it
   fails me far more often than it helps me.  I'm much safer as an adult
   assuming that all people are strangers until proven otherwise.  With this
   in mind, I think I limit the chances that people might take to do things
   to me since I'm pretty much suspicious of everybody.  While this may
   lead to a safer appraoch to life for me, it also has its significant
   down sides, specifically, it leads to what I can only call a
   self-social-isolation.  I pretty much choose to be on my own most of the
   time largely because I never really learned how to trust people
   quickly.  It may thus be wiser for you to teach Sniglet that it is okay,
   and probably even proper, for Sniglet to be afraid of strangers, but that
   will come at a high social cost.  At some point, I decided it was safer for
   me to trust nobody, and in the end, that ultimately made me quite bitter.
   My more recent approach is to still initially trust nobody, but to leave
   open the possibility that some people might become worthy of being
   trusted.  To date, thats the best I've been able to muster for myself
   and still hold onto my sanity and the hope that I won't become socially
   burned because I limit my opportunities to be burned.  I do lose a lot
   of potential social relationships in the process though, largely because
   I'm not so willing to trust people.

   I really can't say what the better answer is.  As I said, it seems to work
   for me, but the cost does appear quite steep.

   > Thanks!

   You're welcome!  Once again, I've managed to write an essay in response to
   a simple paragraph.  ;-)  I hope you don't mind that much.

   > Michelle

   Glenn


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Martina wrote:

   I use to talk to Angelika about the face recognition problem, and I tell
   her quite often, what features are very unusual at a special person.
   She knows about her PA since she is 2.5 years and has no problem
   now to tell me, from what she is recognizing somebody. Sometimes
   she says " Oh, I don´t know, but that is xy" - I talked to several mothers
   of children with congenital PA and they told me, that the cothes and
   hair had been the first features - than when they get older they will get
   the figure and the gait and other specialities:) of a person.

   I think it is very usefull, if you will talk about the dresses, hairstyles ...


   Michele replied:
   Martina,

   Thanks!  Sniglet can't see hair styles or color, just if the hair is long or
short or straight or curly.  I do try to point these things out, as well as any
jewelry or shoes or clothes the person has on.

   Michelle

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mimi wrote:
at the summer camp,
zeke brought a friend and ally with him the following day,
at the same time and place in the schedule,
because he anticipated a repetition of the incident.
he was correct in his assessment, and his friend provided the id.
this was empowering.
that type of incident was not repeated.

Michelle Replied:
What good thinking!


Mimi wrote:
field trips:
is there a chance you
(or Sniglet's baby-sitter, grandma or other adult ally)
could go on some of the school field-trips
as a driver/chaperone?
with a special companion, as an anchor,
the trips may not be so scary.
our schools have always wanted volunteer
parent chaperones.

Michelle Replied:
I do this, but I pick and choose the field trips.  I'll go along on a field trip
to someplace Sniglet has already been several times.  If the field trip is in
the woods or someplace else she's never been, I keep her home or make
arrangements for her to be a helper in a younger class.  Sniglet breaks down in
new environments whether I'm there or not.  I can barely get her to go with me
to a new grocery store.  She always holds onto the cart or rides so she doesn't
fall down or get lost or bump into something.  Maybe this will change once she
gets comfortable with her cane.

Michelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Susan wrote:

I knew Joey had difficulty recognizing people when he was in preschool, but
when I brought this to teachers' attention they'd smirk and say "He knows
perfectly well who that is!"

Michelle Replied:

We got the same response.  Even the school psychologist had this response. 
After the preK psychologist visited the preK to do her observations, the preK
teachers lined the kids up against the wall and had Sniglet ID them.  They said
they did this because of the psychologists questions.  We were less than happy
about this!  Livid is more like it.

Susan wrote:.

I'm a little overwhelmed by the interconnectedness of it all, and by the
sudden explanation of a lot of MY traits.

Michelle Replied:

Sounds like you've quite a family history of PA and other traits.  Sniglet's PA
was caused by a brain injury at birth.



Michelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Susan wrote:
This is fascinating and I'm just now beginning to learn about the relatedness
of vision anomalies to my Joey's PA or Asperger traits. Right now I am pretty
clueless about his vision profile, other than he is extraordinarly
visual-spatial. Besides that, a couple of years ago he had a standard
ophthalmalogical test and passed without incident. Recently, a school
administered test rated his vision 20/30. Reading difficulties have revealed
a tracking problem, but so far nothing else. Thoughts?

  Michelle Replied:

Forgot to mention that Sniglet also has tracking problems.  Hers range from mild
to ocular motor apraxia and vary from minute to minute.  We tried vision therapy
but it didn't help much.



Michelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julie wrote:

Except, I think that now she is able to
intentionally use strategies to remember who is who, and also is beginning
to use strategies to cope with challenging situations.  Like at Brownies (25
girls), Becca always goes to sit next to a particular girl with long dark
hair, who is very affectionate.  (Becca has lots of behavior problems at
Brownies, though, that I don't see at school, so I  know it's hard for her,
at least it's only once every two weeks).

Michelle Replied:

Sniglet is the same way.  She has many more behavior problems in social skills
where the kids are different every week than in preK.

Julie wrote:

It would be so hard to remember who is who by clothing, you'd have to
memorize it each day, or remember the sort of clothing a person wore.  Shoes
would be easier.

Michelle replied:

Sniglet uses both shoes and clothes.  It takes her about a month to settle into
a new classroom.  I think that's about how long it takes her to memorize
everyone's clothes.  She has a very good memory, but still, it is stressful to
have it taxed in this way.

Julie wrote:

Becca is
coping pretty well with people at school, but her overall anxiety is
increasing as she is more and more aware of the social expectations.

Michelle replied:

We have noticed the same thing with Sniglet.  Now that she is more aware, her
anxieties are increasing.

Take care.

Michelle

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Michelle Wilson wrote:
>>
>> My husband has a question for the people who are faceblind in this group.
>> He is very concerned that someone will take advantage of Sniglet once they
>> know she is faceblind.  Like commit a crime against her because they know
>> she can't ID them.  Is this something that's ever happened to anyone on this
>> list?  Is it a concern?

Glenn wrote:

>I've talked about this topic off-list with several different people on several
>different occasions.  What follows is my particular experiences related to
>this....

And then Glenn told of his experiences growing up face blind and afraid
of being harmed.

Each face blind person is different.  Having come to knowing Glenn and
quite a few other face blind people over the last few years, I think
I can fairly say that Glenn is on one end of the paranoia scale and
I am on the other.  Each of us has to make our own decisions on this,
because each of us has a unique neurological makeup and social
environment.  I'll say what my thoughts are to provide balance.  I'd
bet most people settle for something in between.  :-)

First, some preliminary thoughts....

1. Face blindness is rare.  We all know how tough it is to find another
one in our communities.  It is thus unlikely that anyone would build up
a criminal M.O. based on taking advantage of face blind people.  There
are too few potential victims and they are not easy to find.  Criminals
are lazy.

2. Face blind people are not totally blind.  They can still make an ID
based on other items observed.  They can fight back, and others can call
the police.  In any scuffle, physical evidence such as scratches, torn
clothing, and blood leave damning clues.  The reliable usefulness of our
inability to nail people in a lineup as a guaranteed Get Out Of Jail
Free card is tenuous at best.

3. All the other kids will know you don't recognize them whether they
are told you are face blind or not.  The bullies in my school figured
it out, and even that in P.E. where uniforms were worn was where I was
most vulnerable.  However, throughout my childhood, I'd say I knew
who more bullies were, than not.  See #2 above.

4. Bullies mostly operate with impunity, because adults really don't
care.  "Kids will be kids" stuff.  However, adults do get riled up if
a disabled kid is harassed and his disability is taken advantage of.
Bullies don't go for the blind kid for that reason.

5. People who don't know you won't know you're face blind and will
treat you just the same as any other kid.

6. Neurologically quirky kids are not exactly prime child-stealing
targets.

When you add all that up, your only increased risk is from kids who
know you already.  They also know you're face blind already.  "Not
telling" only keeps adults in the dark as well as others who might
come to your aid.  If bullies sense that aid is not to be available
because of your silence, they will be emboldened.  Thus, I'd say,
"Let it be known."

As for traveling about town, go places the bullies are not apt to
be.  Or take a friend.  Or go where there will be witnesses.  Don't
go down isolated alleys with kids you "don't know".  Get real.

As an adult, I once walked from Boston to Rome, NY, on back roads.
No, I didn't know anybody along the roads, but a guy who was not
face blind would not have known anybody either.  No one messed with
me at all.  I'm really glad I did not grow up needlessly over-
paranoid for my situation.  I enjoy my freedom way too much for that.

My two cents.

Bill

Susan,
There is research about Aspergers/Autism, showing differences in the
scanning of faces - there is more scanning of the mouth, less of the eyes.
So, we have worked with Becca on recognizing facial emotion,which has been
somewhat helpful, but notice that she also looks more at the mouth than
eyes.  There is much research on visual processing by infants, and the
development of the pattern of scanning faces.

There are developmental optometrists who believe that many types of learning
disabilities are causes by difficulties with tracking, and eye teaming. It
sounded like it made sense to me.   We went to see one who does vision
therapy, he didn't think about at Becca as an individual, and ended up
prescribing expensive prism glasses which I never bought.   I just wasn't
impressed.

Julie


on 3/2/03 10:33 AM, Michelle  Wilson at mlwilson@... wrote:

> Susan wrote:
> This is fascinating and I'm just now beginning to learn about the relatedness
> of vision anomalies to my Joey's PA or Asperger traits. Right now I am pretty
> clueless about his vision profile, other than he is extraordinarly
> visual-spatial. Besides that, a couple of years ago he had a standard
> ophthalmalogical test and passed without incident. Recently, a school
> administered test rated his vision 20/30. Reading difficulties have revealed
> a tracking problem, but so far nothing else. Thoughts?
>
> Michelle Replied:
>
> Forgot to mention that Sniglet also has tracking problems.  Hers range from
> mild to ocular motor apraxia and vary from minute to minute.  We tried vision
> therapy but it didn't help much.
>
>
>
> Michelle
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> faceblind-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Bill,

Very good points, thanks!  Especially the one about neurologically quirky kids
not being prime targets.  Sniglet is very cute, but her lack of coordination and
her propensity for holding onto the shopping cart while grocery shopping would
probably make most child snatchers think twice, not to mention that this quirk
keeps Sniglet closer to me than NT kids.  I think my husband is on one end of
the paranoia scale and I'm on the other.

Michelle
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Bill Choisser
   To: faceblind@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 2:37 PM
   Subject: Re: [faceblind] Question


   >Michelle Wilson wrote:
   >>
   >> My husband has a question for the people who are faceblind in this group.
   >> He is very concerned that someone will take advantage of Sniglet once they
   >> know she is faceblind.  Like commit a crime against her because they know
   >> she can't ID them.  Is this something that's ever happened to anyone on
this
   >> list?  Is it a concern?

   Glenn wrote:

   >I've talked about this topic off-list with several different people on
several
   >different occasions.  What follows is my particular experiences related to
   >this....

   And then Glenn told of his experiences growing up face blind and afraid
   of being harmed.

   Each face blind person is different.  Having come to knowing Glenn and
   quite a few other face blind people over the last few years, I think
   I can fairly say that Glenn is on one end of the paranoia scale and
   I am on the other.  Each of us has to make our own decisions on this,
   because each of us has a unique neurological makeup and social
   environment.  I'll say what my thoughts are to provide balance.  I'd
   bet most people settle for something in between.  :-)

   First, some preliminary thoughts....

   1. Face blindness is rare.  We all know how tough it is to find another
   one in our communities.  It is thus unlikely that anyone would build up
   a criminal M.O. based on taking advantage of face blind people.  There
   are too few potential victims and they are not easy to find.  Criminals
   are lazy.

   2. Face blind people are not totally blind.  They can still make an ID
   based on other items observed.  They can fight back, and others can call
   the police.  In any scuffle, physical evidence such as scratches, torn
   clothing, and blood leave damning clues.  The reliable usefulness of our
   inability to nail people in a lineup as a guaranteed Get Out Of Jail
   Free card is tenuous at best.

   3. All the other kids will know you don't recognize them whether they
   are told you are face blind or not.  The bullies in my school figured
   it out, and even that in P.E. where uniforms were worn was where I was
   most vulnerable.  However, throughout my childhood, I'd say I knew
   who more bullies were, than not.  See #2 above.

   4. Bullies mostly operate with impunity, because adults really don't
   care.  "Kids will be kids" stuff.  However, adults do get riled up if
   a disabled kid is harassed and his disability is taken advantage of.
   Bullies don't go for the blind kid for that reason.

   5. People who don't know you won't know you're face blind and will
   treat you just the same as any other kid.

   6. Neurologically quirky kids are not exactly prime child-stealing
   targets.

   When you add all that up, your only increased risk is from kids who
   know you already.  They also know you're face blind already.  "Not
   telling" only keeps adults in the dark as well as others who might
   come to your aid.  If bullies sense that aid is not to be available
   because of your silence, they will be emboldened.  Thus, I'd say,
   "Let it be known."

   As for traveling about town, go places the bullies are not apt to
   be.  Or take a friend.  Or go where there will be witnesses.  Don't
   go down isolated alleys with kids you "don't know".  Get real.

   As an adult, I once walked from Boston to Rome, NY, on back roads.
   No, I didn't know anybody along the roads, but a guy who was not
   face blind would not have known anybody either.  No one messed with
   me at all.  I'm really glad I did not grow up needlessly over-
   paranoid for my situation.  I enjoy my freedom way too much for that.

   My two cents.

   Bill



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julie wrote:

There are developmental optometrists who believe that many types of learning
disabilities are causes by difficulties with tracking, and eye teaming. It
sounded like it made sense to me.   We went to see one who does vision
therapy, he didn't think about at Becca as an individual, and ended up
prescribing expensive prism glasses which I never bought.   I just wasn't
impressed.

  Michelle Replied:

Finding a developmental optometrist who not only works well with kids but
integrates gross motor movements in with their visual training isn't easy.  We
found two such OD's, but still Sniglet made no progress with eye tracking after
a year.  That's when the pediatrician ordered an MRI, and for other reasons. 
Now that we know Sniglet has ocular motor apraxia, PA and possible SA and mild
CVI, it makes sense that vision therapy didn't work.  From what I've read on
other lists, vision therapy usually works within the 6 months, but all the kids
it helps are already reading.  We doubt at this point that Sniglet will be able
to read print easily.  We already know that writing by hand will be very
difficult - she is unable to copy any shapes accurately.



Michelle

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Concerning poor vision is a cause of prosopagnosia, I am very photo-phobic, that
is, my eyes are over sensitve to light. So when I was little though I could see,
I looked at things as little as possible because my eyes hurt. Later I became
near sighted and this wasn't caught for years. So not being able to see well
might have something to do with prosopagnosia. But my father also showed signs
of face blindness, so I can't be sure.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Julie Trebat
   To: faceblind@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 10:00 PM
   Subject: [faceblind] Re: vision anomalies


   Susan,
   There is research about Aspergers/Autism, showing differences in the
   scanning of faces - there is more scanning of the mouth, less of the eyes.
   So, we have worked with Becca on recognizing facial emotion,which has been
   somewhat helpful, but notice that she also looks more at the mouth than
   eyes.  There is much research on visual processing by infants, and the
   development of the pattern of scanning faces.

   There are developmental optometrists who believe that many types of learning
   disabilities are causes by difficulties with tracking, and eye teaming. It
   sounded like it made sense to me.   We went to see one who does vision
   therapy, he didn't think about at Becca as an individual, and ended up
   prescribing expensive prism glasses which I never bought.   I just wasn't
   impressed.

   Julie


   on 3/2/03 10:33 AM, Michelle  Wilson at mlwilson@... wrote:

   > Susan wrote:
   > This is fascinating and I'm just now beginning to learn about the
relatedness
   > of vision anomalies to my Joey's PA or Asperger traits. Right now I am
pretty
   > clueless about his vision profile, other than he is extraordinarly
   > visual-spatial. Besides that, a couple of years ago he had a standard
   > ophthalmalogical test and passed without incident. Recently, a school
   > administered test rated his vision 20/30. Reading difficulties have revealed
   > a tracking problem, but so far nothing else. Thoughts?
   >
   > Michelle Replied:
   >
   > Forgot to mention that Sniglet also has tracking problems.  Hers range from
   > mild to ocular motor apraxia and vary from minute to minute.  We tried
vision
   > therapy but it didn't help much.
   >
   >
   >
   > Michelle
   >
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >
   >
   >
   > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
   > faceblind-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   >
   >
   >
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We tried scanning training with a developmental optometrist
for Zeke when he was about seven years old.
He HATED it.
  The optometrist taught at the UC Berkeley School of Optometry
but was not particularly sensitive to Zeke's issues,
or Zeke as an individual.

When Zeke just couldn't do the exercises he had prescribed
the doc had no alternatives, no back up plan.

I enlarged the images about 400%,
and thus made it possible for Zeke to cope.
The optometrist didn't even seem to get that this was part of the issue,
which struck me as rather odd.
(I guess, to him, Zeke's vision was normal,
so it should not have been an issue.)

Recently, we had a neuropsych assessment for Zeke,
and the neuropsych as much as said
she thought that whole developmental optometry/scanning program was
quackery.
So I guess its efficacy is controversial.

-Mimi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie Trebat" <trebat@...>
To: <faceblind@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 7:00 PM
Subject: [faceblind] Re: vision anomalies


> Susan,
> There is research about Aspergers/Autism, showing differences in the
> scanning of faces - there is more scanning of the mouth, less of the eyes.
> So, we have worked with Becca on recognizing facial emotion,which has been
> somewhat helpful, but notice that she also looks more at the mouth than
> eyes.  There is much research on visual processing by infants, and the
> development of the pattern of scanning faces.
>
> There are developmental optometrists who believe that many types of
learning
> disabilities are causes by difficulties with tracking, and eye teaming. It
> sounded like it made sense to me.   We went to see one who does vision
> therapy, he didn't think about at Becca as an individual, and ended up
> prescribing expensive prism glasses which I never bought.   I just wasn't
> impressed.
>
> Julie
>
>
> on 3/2/03 10:33 AM, Michelle  Wilson at mlwilson@... wrote:
>
> > Susan wrote:
> > This is fascinating and I'm just now beginning to learn about the
relatedness
> > of vision anomalies to my Joey's PA or Asperger traits. Right now I am
pretty
> > clueless about his vision profile, other than he is extraordinarly
> > visual-spatial. Besides that, a couple of years ago he had a standard
> > ophthalmalogical test and passed without incident. Recently, a school
> > administered test rated his vision 20/30. Reading difficulties have
revealed
> > a tracking problem, but so far nothing else. Thoughts?
> >
> > Michelle Replied:
> >
> > Forgot to mention that Sniglet also has tracking problems.  Hers range
from
> > mild to ocular motor apraxia and vary from minute to minute.  We tried
vision
> > therapy but it didn't help much.
> >
> >
> >
> > Michelle
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > faceblind-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> faceblind-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>