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#14160 From: Mike Stockdale <jediwhale@...>
Date: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:00 pm
Subject: Re: Runtime test parameters/configuration
jediwhale
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I know others have done this. I haven't so my explanation may be a little inaccurate but it's something like this.

Each 'configuration' has its own root page and then includes the common suite of tests with !include or !see or something like that.

On the root pages you put a fixture that records some information in a nice global place where other fixtures can find it.

|browser config|
|set|name|ie8|

Each user's tests will run in a separate FitServer process so this config info is kept separate at runtime.

jroets01 wrote:
 

Given that user A and user B want to run the same suite of tests, from the same instance of FitNesse, at the same time; but each wants a slightly different "configuration" (i.e. runtime parameterization of tests), can I specify configuration in FitNesse such that each user doesn't stomp on the other?

Here's a contrived example to demonstrate my question: Let's say I am using FitNesse to test a UI. And let's say I have a lot of tests, organized into suites. At runtime, I want to be able to specify which browser my fixtures should use (because my tests are to be the same regardless of browser).

It doesn't seem like using !define is a good idea, because those values are global. I.e. If the value is changed in the middle of a test run, the changed value then is used.

It doesn't seem like using config files (I'm using .NET) would work either, for the same reason.

It doesn't seem like using a set-up fixture would work either, for the same reason.

It's like FitNesse is lacking the concept of a Session.

In my contrived example, I could have created separate instances of FitNesse for each configuration, since I only have one variable; but this isn't practical when you start having multiple variables.

Am I making sense? Can someone enlighten me as to how to deal with this?


--
Cheers,
Mike Stockdale

fitSharp
FitNesse.NET
Syterra Software Inc.

#14159 From: "jroets01" <jroets@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:13 pm
Subject: Runtime test parameters/configuration
jroets01
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Given that user A and user B want to run the same suite of tests, from the same
instance of FitNesse, at the same time; but each wants a slightly different
"configuration" (i.e. runtime parameterization of tests), can I specify
configuration in FitNesse such that each user doesn't stomp on the other?

Here's a contrived example to demonstrate my question: Let's say I am using
FitNesse to test a UI. And let's say I have a lot of tests, organized into
suites. At runtime, I want to be able to specify which browser my fixtures
should use (because my tests are to be the same regardless of browser).

It doesn't seem like using !define is a good idea, because those values are
global. I.e. If the value is changed in the middle of a test run, the changed
value then is used.

It doesn't seem like using config files (I'm using .NET) would work either, for
the same reason.

It doesn't seem like using a set-up fixture would work either, for the same
reason.

It's like FitNesse is lacking the concept of a Session.

In my contrived example, I could have created separate instances of FitNesse for
each configuration, since I only have one variable; but this isn't practical
when you start having multiple variables.

Am I making sense? Can someone enlighten me as to how to deal with this?

#14158 From: "dwanesun" <david.w.sun@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:10 pm
Subject: SuiteSetup not getting called from PyFIT command line runner
dwanesun
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We just tried upgrading to the latest FITnesse (release 20090818).
We are using PyFIT-0.8a1.

The problem is that by using the PyFIT FitTestRunner, SuiteSetUp is no longer
getting called.
This used to work with release 20080812.

The built in command line test runner works, but we would prefer to stick with
the Python test runner.

Any suggestions?

#14157 From: "villimucho" <villimucho@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:03 pm
Subject: Re: Running tests concurrently
villimucho
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If you take a t-shirt I think you're obligated to try it.

Wouldn't it be nice if this functionality were possibly in Fitnesse? Am I the
only one who sees a need for it?

--- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, "timander37" <tandersen@...> wrote:
>
> These guys were selling that type of a solution at the Agile 2009 conference. 
I haven't tried it, but I did get a T-Shirt from their booth.
>
> http://www.electric-cloud.com/
>
> If you do try it out, I would be curious to see how it works for you.  Good
luck.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> --- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, "villimucho" <villimucho@> wrote:
> >
> > Is it possible to run multiple tests concurrently? I have a test suite that
uses Selenium, and it takes a really long time for it to complete. It would
finish much faster if there would be some way to specify that I want it to use
more than one thread. Is there any way to do this?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
>

#14156 From: "ssaha_ghx" <ssaha@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:42 am
Subject: Re: Symbol usage in SliM
ssaha_ghx
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Thank you Gregor!

This certainly answered my question.

-Sanjeev

--- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, Gregor Gramlich <gramlich@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Sanjeev,
>
> Slim is only guaranteed to work correctly with Strings stored in symbols.
>
> There are some ways around that.
> Specify a meaningful string identifier and store the objects in a
> registry (might be a simple Hashmap).
> Or create a registry class and have it generate (numerical) ids that
> can be referenced later.
>
> In both cases store the identifiers in the Slim variable instead of the
object.
>
> In Brett Schuchert's tutorials he uses a similar technique
> http://schuchert.wikispaces.com/FitNesse.Tutorials.2
> search for $ID on the page to get the idea
>
> The registry is the SeasonPassManager (the final version at the very bottom)
>
> The creating fixture is CreateSeasonPassFor the using fixture is
> EpisodesInToDoList
>
> You can combine creation and storage into one class.
>
> Gregor
>
>
>
> 2009/11/11 ssaha_ghx <ssaha@...>
> >
> >
> >
> > Consider the following Symbol related test on SliM:
> >
> > !|script|java.lang.String|STRING_VALUE|
> > |$VAR= |get bytes |
> >
> > !|script|java.lang.String|$VAR |
> > |check |to string |STRING_VALUE|
> >
> > I was expecting to see the appropriate byte[] being used for the second
instantiation. It seems however that SliM is using the toString value instead of
the byte[] reference.
> >
> > |script |java.lang.String|STRING_VALUE|
> > |$VAR<-[[B@15eb0a9] |get bytes |
> >
> > |script|java.lang.String|$VAR->[[B@15eb0a9] |
> > |check |to string |[[B@15eb0a9] expected [STRING_VALUE]|
> >
> > Am I missing something about how Symbols behave in SliM? I see similar
behavior when trying to use a symbol that was previously populated with a custom
object. When trying to use it in an api that uses java.lang.Object as the
parameter, it complains about not finding a converter for Object.
> >
> > -Sanjeev
> >
> >
>

#14155 From: "tony_t_tubbs" <tony_t_tubbs@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:15 pm
Subject: Re: Can you help a newbie out with FitLibrary / SpiderFixture
tony_t_tubbs
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I lied.  I got in a hurry on that last post.  Adding the |element|becomes| did
make the browser do what I wanted (I guess it slows things down enough), but
FitNesse actually reports an error that no method named elementBecomes exists.

And an FYI for you...
I moved to SpiderFixture because I could not get 'clicks' to process in my app
using WebTest.  (I believe this is due to WebTest sending only a 'click' event,
but the SmartClient framework tiggers much of it's functionality off of
'mouseUp')  I had the same problem w/ clicks not processing as expected using
SpiderFixture out of the box.  However, we've had success with WebDriver in
JUnit, and found that we were using a newer version for that.  I had to copy the
newer version of WebDriver into my FitNesse libs to get 'click' events to work
there too.


--- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, Rick Mugridge <rick@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> tony_t_tubbs wrote:
> >
> >
> > Something I've ran into today trying to test a logon page.
> > 1. Enter bad username; expect error message
> > 2. Enter bad password; expect error message
> > 3. Enter bad username and password; expect error message
> > 4. Enter good username and password; expect page to change
> >
> > On 1st test, I get expected error (a popup div) and click its close
> > button, BUT that div is just hidden, not removed from the DOM. On the
> > second test the click on the close happens before the div is made
> > visible again. I get a org.openqa.selenium.ElementNotVisibleException.
> > Can I force an pause or wait somehow? Should the polling wait for
> > visibility changes too?
> >
>
> You could test that the element 'becomes' visible, so it polls until
> it's visible, and then click on the close.
>
> I suppose polling could allow automatically for visibility; it should be
> easy enough to add. I'll give it some thought....
>
> Cheers, Rick
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > TT
> >
> >
>

#14154 From: "tony_t_tubbs" <tony_t_tubbs@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:51 pm
Subject: Re: Can you help a newbie out with FitLibrary / SpiderFixture
tony_t_tubbs
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Ok, that's good news.  I looked and looked for anything about visible, but
couldn't find anything about that.  I did an expand all on the Command User
Guide, then did a browser text search but 'visible' is not there.  I'm sure
that's due in part to my newbiness, but since I didn't find anything on it, I
did know it was available.  However, that did the trick.  Thanks!



--- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, Rick Mugridge <rick@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> tony_t_tubbs wrote:
> >
> >
> > Something I've ran into today trying to test a logon page.
> > 1. Enter bad username; expect error message
> > 2. Enter bad password; expect error message
> > 3. Enter bad username and password; expect error message
> > 4. Enter good username and password; expect page to change
> >
> > On 1st test, I get expected error (a popup div) and click its close
> > button, BUT that div is just hidden, not removed from the DOM. On the
> > second test the click on the close happens before the div is made
> > visible again. I get a org.openqa.selenium.ElementNotVisibleException.
> > Can I force an pause or wait somehow? Should the polling wait for
> > visibility changes too?
> >
>
> You could test that the element 'becomes' visible, so it polls until
> it's visible, and then click on the close.
>
> I suppose polling could allow automatically for visibility; it should be
> easy enough to add. I'll give it some thought....
>
> Cheers, Rick
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > TT
> >
> >
>

#14153 From: "tony_t_tubbs" <tony_t_tubbs@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:44 pm
Subject: Re: Can you help a newbie out with FitLibrary / SpiderFixture
tony_t_tubbs
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I was able to grab them.  Making those available is very nice, thank you.


--- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, "ravneet_madan" <ravneet_crab@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tony
>
> We have set of tests that we were completing for a CMS system (Silverstripe).
You can copy them to your FitnesseRoot folder and then access it usin the
hyperlink localhost:"port its running on"/SuiteWebTestDemo.
> You can check out the test folder from our svn repository using the following
link:
> https://webtest-svn.cvsdude.com/fitnesse/FitnesseCmsDemoTests/SuiteWebTestDemo
> with user name: guestuser
> and password: password
>
> If this doesnt work, let me know and can send u a zip file containing the
tests.
>
> Cheers
>
> Ravneet Madan
> WebTest Ltd
> www.webtest.co.nz
> --- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, "tony_t_tubbs" <tony_t_tubbs@> wrote:
> >
> > I think I've jumped in the deep end here...
> >
> > My end goal is to test my (SmartCliet based) web app.  I hit a wall trying
WebTest, but have had some luck with WebDriver.  This has brought me to the
SpiderFixture.  Through trial and error I have hacked a test together, but only
just...
> >
> > I guess my base question is can you provide the recipe a newbie needs to
follow to get up to speed on using this combo of tools?
> >
> > Some background
> > - I see SpecSetUp is magically included on some pages.  How?
> > - There is a series of |firefox profile| stuff I was able to hack to get
through my proxy, but would like to learn more.
> > - I tried to add a SetUp page as I have done in FitNesse, but this seems to
be assumed or built in now.  I had to delete and add using the page footer link.
WT-?
> > - I'm trying to get a picture of how all the new layers play together:
SetUp, SuitSetUp, SpecSetUp etc. (or at least I didn't see all of these in just
FitNesse).
> >
> > Is there a guide, and I just missed it?  I appreciate the tools and work
that must have gone into them, but a small, yet friendly, criticism is that it
is slow going for a newbie.  A few how-to guides would be much appreciated (with
a big please and thanks added in here).  Sometimes command references just
aren't enough.
> >
> > Thanks all,
> > TT
> >
>

#14152 From: Rick Mugridge <rick@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:46 am
Subject: Re: Re: Can you help a newbie out with FitLibrary / SpiderFixture
rickmugridge
Offline Offline
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Hi Tony,

tony_t_tubbs wrote:
 

Something I've ran into today trying to test a logon page.
1. Enter bad username; expect error message
2. Enter bad password; expect error message
3. Enter bad username and password; expect error message
4. Enter good username and password; expect page to change

On 1st test, I get expected error (a popup div) and click its close button, BUT that div is just hidden, not removed from the DOM. On the second test the click on the close happens before the div is made visible again. I get a org.openqa.selenium.ElementNotVisibleException. Can I force an pause or wait somehow? Should the polling wait for visibility changes too?


You could test that the element 'becomes' visible, so it polls until it's visible, and then click on the close.

I suppose polling could allow automatically for visibility; it should be easy enough to add. I'll give it some thought....

Cheers, Rick


Thanks,
TT


#14151 From: Rick Mugridge <rick@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:42 am
Subject: Re: Re: Can you help a newbie out with FitLibrary / SpiderFixture
rickmugridge
Offline Offline
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Hi Tony,

tony_t_tubbs wrote:
 


Thanks, for all the info. and I look forward to the guide.

I am thinking my biggest problem right now is figuring out what package/plugin is responsible for what part(s) of a command so I can find more about them. I am not able to quickly figure out what I can or cannot do, it seems to be all trial and error. For example...

- I cannot run either the Google or Amazon tests out of the box, and I don't fully understand them. There is no command to start firefox or htmlunit, so I don't know how or what is going to make them run anyway. To get them running, I had to add a start firefox command. I had problems loading the page then, and assumed a proxy problem. I have no idea how to debug/trace/log anything with these tools, and no errors were reported in the FitNesse wiki page. So, I tried the |proxy|<ip here>|port|<port#| command didn't seem to do anything. I wasn't looking, but found the firefox profiles stuff on the GetUrl(spec) page so gave those a try. After changing the pac filename to the one I use I can run the tests.


By default, SpiderFixture runs htmlunit. You're right that you need to specifically start Firefox and provide profile details, as mentioned on the front page of the DocuMentation.

What additional logging would be useful?


- I tried to do a |url|matches|http://localhost.*/<my path here>| to keep from using a hardcoded port # (easier to share the tests that way). Couldn't get it to work, and can't find rules for 'matches' anywhere.


The special action 'matches' is a part of FitLibrary. It uses regular expression matching on the result of the action (url here). There is a polling form: 'eventually matches'. See FitLibrary.SpecifiCations.DoWorkflow.SpecialActions. I will update the UserGuide to cover these.



- I also tried a |url|becomes| command after clicking a button, but this seems to check the URL straight way, and doesn't poll like I was expecting. I had to wait for an element to appear then do a |url|is| instead.


You may need to set the timeout period, in milliseconds, for the polling:

|checking timeout|1000|

This can be changed at any time, so you can tailor the timeout according to the expected delay.

This is documented in FitLibraryWeb.SpiderFixture.DocuMentation.PollingForAnElement


- On the SetUp thing... If I create the SetUp by typing that new page name in the Address bar (as I'm used to doing in FitNesse alone), it will create the new page as expected. However, the wiki page shows the SetUp information twice. Once collapsed in the auto included setup block, then again expanded on the page as this is in fact the 'SetUp' page. If I create via the page footer, I do not get the auto included SetUp block.


SetUp pages are automatically included in pages that 'inherit' it. Don't explicitly !include it.



I don't know if that helps explain my slow goings, but that's where I'm at.


OK, so we clearly need somes docs on fault-finding with proxies, as they end up being the major problem.

I'll also change the basic examples to use Firefix by default, so it's obvious that something is happening. And I'll add extra information to those examples about what the actions are doing.

Cheers, Rick


--- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, Rick Mugridge <rick@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> Writing a guide is on my list of things to do. Given your prompting, I
> will aim to get on to it in 2-3 days. I'll answer your immediate
> questions below...
>
> tony_t_tubbs wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think I've jumped in the deep end here...
> >
> > My end goal is to test my (SmartCliet based) web app. I hit a wall
> > trying WebTest, but have had some luck with WebDriver. This has
> > brought me to the SpiderFixture. Through trial and error I have hacked
> > a test together, but only just...
> >
> > I guess my base question is can you provide the recipe a newbie needs
> > to follow to get up to speed on using this combo of tools?
> >
> > Some background
> > - I see SpecSetUp is magically included on some pages. How?
> >
>
> SpecSetUp is explicitly included in each of the specification storytests
> for SpiderFixture. However, you won't need it in your storytests, as
> it's there purely to support the self-testing of SpiderFixture itself.
>
> For more realistic (but short) examples of how to approach it, see the
> two examples at FitLibraryWeb.SpiderFixture.TestGoogle and TestAmazon.
> Sorry I don't (yet) have more substantial examples; SpiderFixture has
> been used extensively on several client projects but they're not
> available for public viewing!
>
> > - There is a series of |firefox profile| stuff I was able to hack to
> > get through my proxy, but would like to learn more.
> >
>
> Yes, I would too! I will ask someone who is more knowledgeable about
> profiles and proxies to write something up. There's also a little info
> on the WebDriver website.
>
> > - I tried to add a SetUp page as I have done in FitNesse, but this
> > seems to be assumed or built in now. I had to delete and add using the
> > page footer link. WT-?
> >
>
> FitNesse uses the closest SetUp in the ancestors of the current page. So
> add a SetUp page more closely and it will be auto-included instead of
> the other one.
>
> > - I'm trying to get a picture of how all the new layers play together:
> > SetUp, SuitSetUp, SpecSetUp etc. (or at least I didn't see all of
> > these in just FitNesse).
> >
>
> SpecSetUp is explained above. You won't need SuiteSetUp - at least for now.
>
> SuiteSetUp is managed by FitNesse and is run before any test or suite
> below it in the page structure. I use it in the SpdierFixture specs so
> that I can tag some storytests to specify that they only run on FireFox,
> for example. This makes it easy for me to allow for minor differences in
> different browsers.
>
> >
> > Is there a guide, and I just missed it? I appreciate the tools and
> > work that must have gone into them, but a small, yet friendly,
> > criticism is that it is slow going for a newbie. A few how-to guides
> > would be much appreciated (with a big please and thanks added in
> > here). Sometimes command references just aren't enough.
> >
>
> I'm on to it. What other things would you like addressed? How do you
> find the documentation that's already provided (there's lots there on
> the various commands)? Do you find it useful to read the specs to
> understand any finer points of how things work?
>
> I also have on my list to write an article on this, and especially how
> to use defined actions in association with SpiderFixture.
>
> Cheers, Rick
>
> >
> > Thanks all,
> > TT
> >
> >
>


#14150 From: "ravneet_madan" <ravneet_crab@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:34 am
Subject: Re: Can you help a newbie out with FitLibrary / SpiderFixture
ravneet_madan
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Tony

We have set of tests that we were completing for a CMS system (Silverstripe).
You can copy them to your FitnesseRoot folder and then access it usin the
hyperlink localhost:"port its running on"/SuiteWebTestDemo.
You can check out the test folder from our svn repository using the following
link:
https://webtest-svn.cvsdude.com/fitnesse/FitnesseCmsDemoTests/SuiteWebTestDemo
with user name: guestuser
and password: password

If this doesnt work, let me know and can send u a zip file containing the tests.

Cheers

Ravneet Madan
WebTest Ltd
www.webtest.co.nz
--- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, "tony_t_tubbs" <tony_t_tubbs@...> wrote:
>
> I think I've jumped in the deep end here...
>
> My end goal is to test my (SmartCliet based) web app.  I hit a wall trying
WebTest, but have had some luck with WebDriver.  This has brought me to the
SpiderFixture.  Through trial and error I have hacked a test together, but only
just...
>
> I guess my base question is can you provide the recipe a newbie needs to
follow to get up to speed on using this combo of tools?
>
> Some background
> - I see SpecSetUp is magically included on some pages.  How?
> - There is a series of |firefox profile| stuff I was able to hack to get
through my proxy, but would like to learn more.
> - I tried to add a SetUp page as I have done in FitNesse, but this seems to be
assumed or built in now.  I had to delete and add using the page footer link. 
WT-?
> - I'm trying to get a picture of how all the new layers play together: SetUp,
SuitSetUp, SpecSetUp etc. (or at least I didn't see all of these in just
FitNesse).
>
> Is there a guide, and I just missed it?  I appreciate the tools and work that
must have gone into them, but a small, yet friendly, criticism is that it is
slow going for a newbie.  A few how-to guides would be much appreciated (with a
big please and thanks added in here).  Sometimes command references just aren't
enough.
>
> Thanks all,
> TT
>

#14149 From: "timander37" <tandersen@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:56 am
Subject: Re: Runing tests concurrently
timander37
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
These guys were selling that type of a solution at the Agile 2009 conference.  I
haven't tried it, but I did get a T-Shirt from their booth.

http://www.electric-cloud.com/

If you do try it out, I would be curious to see how it works for you.  Good
luck.

Tim



--- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, "villimucho" <villimucho@...> wrote:
>
> Is it possible to run multiple tests concurrently? I have a test suite that
uses Selenium, and it takes a really long time for it to complete. It would
finish much faster if there would be some way to specify that I want it to use
more than one thread. Is there any way to do this?
>
> Thanks!
>

#14148 From: "KarstenTech" <paul.karsten@...>
Date: Wed Nov 4, 2009 10:53 pm
Subject: Re: wget and downloading fitnesse
KarstenTech
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Doh.  That was it.  Thanks Gregor.

--- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, Gregor Gramlich <gramlich@...> wrote:
>
> put the address in double quotes.
>
> wget "
> http://fitnesse.org/fitnesse.jar?responder=releaseDownload&release=20090818"
>
>
> Gregor
>
> 2009/11/4 KarstenTech <paul.karsten@...>
>
> >
> >
> > I will admit from the get go that I am probably doing something that should
> > be very simple just a little bit wrong. However, if I try to download
> > fitnesse to my centos virtual using wget (see below), I keep getting a 400
> > bad request.
> >
> > I haven't been able to find an alternate site (one with a more straight
> > forward url) for this release.
> >
> > So any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > wget
> > http://fitnesse.org/fitnesse.jar?responder=releaseDownload&release=20090818
> >
> >
> >
>

#14147 From: "tony_t_tubbs" <tony_t_tubbs@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:37 pm
Subject: Re: Can you help a newbie out with FitLibrary / SpiderFixture
tony_t_tubbs
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Something I've ran into today trying to test a logon page.
1. Enter bad username; expect error message
2. Enter bad password; expect error message
3. Enter bad username and password; expect error message
4. Enter good username and password; expect page to change

On 1st test, I get expected error (a popup div) and click its close button, BUT
that div is just hidden, not removed from the DOM.  On the second test the click
on the close happens before the div is made visible again.  I get a
org.openqa.selenium.ElementNotVisibleException.  Can I force an pause or wait
somehow?  Should the polling wait for visibility changes too?

Thanks,
TT

#14146 From: Gregor Gramlich <gramlich@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:47 pm
Subject: Re: Importing tests to new server
gregorgramlich
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Hello Michael,

usually you can simply zip the FitNesseRoot directory and unpack it on
the other machine. Just make sure, to have the correct user / access
rights.
I assume that the system under test will also run on the new server.

Gregor

2009/11/11 mfurmaniuk <mfurmaniuk@...>
>
>
>
> Does anyone have some advice on how to move my Fitnesse tests to a new server?
I want to move the ones I have to a more permanent location and then get rid of
the test server, but I would like to reuse as many of the existing tests I have
now. Looking at the import function it seems like it keeps a link to the
original server, is there a way to move the tests over so they can go to the new
location and stay there?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael
>
>

#14145 From: "mfurmaniuk" <mfurmaniuk@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:15 pm
Subject: Importing tests to new server
mfurmaniuk
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
Does anyone have some advice on how to move my Fitnesse tests to a new server? 
I want to move the ones I have to a more permanent location and then get rid of
the test server, but I would like to reuse as many of the existing tests I have
now.  Looking at the import function it seems like it keeps a link to the
original server, is there a way to move the tests over so they can go to the new
location and stay there?

Thanks,

Michael

#14144 From: "tony_t_tubbs" <tony_t_tubbs@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:27 pm
Subject: Re: Can you help a newbie out with FitLibrary / SpiderFixture
tony_t_tubbs
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Thanks, for all the info. and I look forward to the guide.

I am thinking my biggest problem right now is figuring out what package/plugin
is responsible for what part(s) of a command so I can find more about them.  I
am not able to quickly figure out what I can or cannot do, it seems to be all
trial and error.  For example...

- I cannot run either the Google or Amazon tests out of the box, and I don't
fully understand them.  There is no command to start firefox or htmlunit, so I
don't know how or what is going to make them run anyway.  To get them running, I
had to add a start firefox command.  I had problems loading the page then, and
assumed a proxy problem.  I have no idea how to debug/trace/log anything with
these tools, and no errors were reported in the FitNesse wiki page.  So, I tried
the |proxy|<ip here>|port|<port#| command didn't seem to do anything.  I wasn't
looking, but found the firefox profiles stuff on the GetUrl(spec) page so gave
those a try.  After changing the pac filename to the one I use I can run the
tests.

- I tried to do a |url|matches|http://localhost.*/<my path here>| to keep from
using a hardcoded port # (easier to share the tests that way).  Couldn't get it
to work, and can't find rules for 'matches' anywhere.

- I also tried a |url|becomes| command after clicking a button, but this seems
to check the URL straight way, and doesn't poll like I was expecting.  I had to
wait for an element to appear then do a |url|is| instead.

- On the SetUp thing...  If I create the SetUp by typing that new page name in
the Address bar (as I'm used to doing in FitNesse alone), it will create the new
page as expected.  However, the wiki page shows the SetUp information twice. 
Once collapsed in the auto included setup block, then again expanded on the page
as this is in fact the 'SetUp' page.  If I create via the page footer, I do not
get the auto included SetUp block.

I don't know if that helps explain my slow goings, but that's where I'm at.


--- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, Rick Mugridge <rick@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> Writing a guide is on my list of things to do. Given your prompting, I
> will aim to get on to it in 2-3 days. I'll answer your immediate
> questions below...
>
> tony_t_tubbs wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think I've jumped in the deep end here...
> >
> > My end goal is to test my (SmartCliet based) web app. I hit a wall
> > trying WebTest, but have had some luck with WebDriver. This has
> > brought me to the SpiderFixture. Through trial and error I have hacked
> > a test together, but only just...
> >
> > I guess my base question is can you provide the recipe a newbie needs
> > to follow to get up to speed on using this combo of tools?
> >
> > Some background
> > - I see SpecSetUp is magically included on some pages. How?
> >
>
> SpecSetUp is explicitly included in each of the specification storytests
> for SpiderFixture. However, you won't need it in your storytests, as
> it's there purely to support the self-testing of SpiderFixture itself.
>
> For more realistic (but short) examples of how to approach it, see the
> two examples at FitLibraryWeb.SpiderFixture.TestGoogle and TestAmazon.
> Sorry I don't (yet) have more substantial examples; SpiderFixture has
> been used extensively on several client projects but they're not
> available for public viewing!
>
> > - There is a series of |firefox profile| stuff I was able to hack to
> > get through my proxy, but would like to learn more.
> >
>
> Yes, I would too! I will ask someone who is more knowledgeable about
> profiles and proxies to write something up. There's also a little info
> on the WebDriver website.
>
> > - I tried to add a SetUp page as I have done in FitNesse, but this
> > seems to be assumed or built in now. I had to delete and add using the
> > page footer link. WT-?
> >
>
> FitNesse uses the closest SetUp in the ancestors of the current page. So
> add a SetUp page more closely and it will be auto-included instead of
> the other one.
>
> > - I'm trying to get a picture of how all the new layers play together:
> > SetUp, SuitSetUp, SpecSetUp etc. (or at least I didn't see all of
> > these in just FitNesse).
> >
>
> SpecSetUp is explained above. You won't need SuiteSetUp - at least for now.
>
> SuiteSetUp is managed by FitNesse and is run before any test or suite
> below it in the page structure. I use it in the SpdierFixture specs so
> that I can tag some storytests to specify that they only run on FireFox,
> for example. This makes it easy for me to allow for minor differences in
> different browsers.
>
> >
> > Is there a guide, and I just missed it? I appreciate the tools and
> > work that must have gone into them, but a small, yet friendly,
> > criticism is that it is slow going for a newbie. A few how-to guides
> > would be much appreciated (with a big please and thanks added in
> > here). Sometimes command references just aren't enough.
> >
>
> I'm on to it. What other things would you like addressed? How do you
> find the documentation that's already provided (there's lots there on
> the various commands)? Do you find it useful to read the specs to
> understand any finer points of how things work?
>
> I also have on my list to write an article on this, and especially how
> to use defined actions in association with SpiderFixture.
>
> Cheers, Rick
>
> >
> > Thanks all,
> > TT
> >
> >
>

#14143 From: Gojko Adzic <gojko-yahoolist@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:36 pm
Subject: Re: Trinidad Maven Plugin
gojko_lastname
Offline Offline
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there was an issue with 1.0.9 with some classpaths. you can either
upgrade to the latest version or, if you can figure out which artifacts
fail to load completely, add a dependency to the plugin. see
http://www.sonatype.com/people/2008/04/how-to-override-a-plugins-dependency-in-m\
aven/
for an example.

gojko

erikpragt wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've just installed Trinidad for Fitnesse, and it works quite well. I've got
the unit testing working, etc. However, when using the same configuration in
Maven, the tests fail, because the Fixtures cannot be instantiated. I thought
(and still think) has to do with the classpath. I did, however, start Maven with
-X, to show the classpath, and the fixture Fitnesse/Trinidad is looking for
seems to be in the classpath.
>
> Any suggestions on how to solve this, or is there anyone who did got it to
work?
>
> This is my configuration btw:
>
>             <plugin>
>                 <artifactId>maven-trinidad-plugin</artifactId>
>                 <version>1.0.9</version>
>                 <executions>
>                     <execution>
>                         <phase>test</phase>
>                         <goals>
>                             <goal>run-tests</goal>
>                         </goals>
>                         <configuration>
>                             <testEngine>slim</testEngine>
>                             <testRepositoryType>fitnesse</testRepositoryType>
>                            
<testRepositoryUri>/Volumes/project/fitnesse2009</testRepositoryUri>
>                             <breakBuildOnFailure>true</breakBuildOnFailure>
>                             <suites>
>                                
<suite>FrontPage.AbwMasterDataClient.WorkSuite</suite>
>                             </suites>
>                         </configuration>
>                     </execution>
>                 </executions>
>             </plugin>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Erik Pragt
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

#14142 From: "erikpragt" <epragt@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:07 am
Subject: Trinidad Maven Plugin
erikpragt
Offline Offline
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Hi all,

I've just installed Trinidad for Fitnesse, and it works quite well. I've got the
unit testing working, etc. However, when using the same configuration in Maven,
the tests fail, because the Fixtures cannot be instantiated. I thought (and
still think) has to do with the classpath. I did, however, start Maven with -X,
to show the classpath, and the fixture Fitnesse/Trinidad is looking for seems to
be in the classpath.

Any suggestions on how to solve this, or is there anyone who did got it to work?

This is my configuration btw:

             <plugin>
                 <artifactId>maven-trinidad-plugin</artifactId>
                 <version>1.0.9</version>
                 <executions>
                     <execution>
                         <phase>test</phase>
                         <goals>
                             <goal>run-tests</goal>
                         </goals>
                         <configuration>
                             <testEngine>slim</testEngine>
                             <testRepositoryType>fitnesse</testRepositoryType>
                            
<testRepositoryUri>/Volumes/project/fitnesse2009</testRepositoryUri>
                             <breakBuildOnFailure>true</breakBuildOnFailure>
                             <suites>
                                
<suite>FrontPage.AbwMasterDataClient.WorkSuite</suite>
                             </suites>
                         </configuration>
                     </execution>
                 </executions>
             </plugin>

Thanks,

Erik Pragt

#14141 From: Gregor Gramlich <gramlich@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:44 am
Subject: Re: Symbol usage in SliM
gregorgramlich
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Hi Sanjeev,

Slim is only guaranteed to work correctly with Strings stored in symbols.

There are some ways around that.
Specify a meaningful string identifier and store the objects in a
registry (might be a simple Hashmap).
Or create a registry class and have it generate (numerical) ids that
can be referenced later.

In both cases store the identifiers in the Slim variable instead of the object.

In Brett Schuchert's tutorials he uses a similar technique
http://schuchert.wikispaces.com/FitNesse.Tutorials.2
search for $ID on the page to get the idea

The registry is the SeasonPassManager (the final version at the very bottom)

The creating fixture is CreateSeasonPassFor the using fixture is
EpisodesInToDoList

You can combine creation and storage into one class.

Gregor



2009/11/11 ssaha_ghx <ssaha@...>
>
>
>
> Consider the following Symbol related test on SliM:
>
> !|script|java.lang.String|STRING_VALUE|
> |$VAR= |get bytes |
>
> !|script|java.lang.String|$VAR |
> |check |to string |STRING_VALUE|
>
> I was expecting to see the appropriate byte[] being used for the second
instantiation. It seems however that SliM is using the toString value instead of
the byte[] reference.
>
> |script |java.lang.String|STRING_VALUE|
> |$VAR<-[[B@15eb0a9] |get bytes |
>
> |script|java.lang.String|$VAR->[[B@15eb0a9] |
> |check |to string |[[B@15eb0a9] expected [STRING_VALUE]|
>
> Am I missing something about how Symbols behave in SliM? I see similar
behavior when trying to use a symbol that was previously populated with a custom
object. When trying to use it in an api that uses java.lang.Object as the
parameter, it complains about not finding a converter for Object.
>
> -Sanjeev
>
>

#14140 From: Rick Mugridge <rick@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:44 am
Subject: Re: FitLibrary / SpiderFixture and Firefox profiles
rickmugridge
Offline Offline
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Hi Tony,

Here's Darren Rowley's explanation for Firefox profiles. We will add it
to the SpiderFixture documentation once Darren has git working on
sourceforge.

Cheers, Rick
----------------------
A profile in Firefox is where your personal configuration is stored
(i.e. bookmarks, proxy settings etc). When Firefox is installed, a
profile called “default” is created. It is possible to create new
profiles using the –profileManager command line option for Firefox. The
majority of settings that you modify through the tools->options are
stored inside this profile, as well as many options that can’t be set
via Firefox’s menus.

You can see a list of all these properties by typing

about:config

into the URL bar. Firefox will show in bold any changes you have made
from the default profile setting. This will include any changes to your
proxy/network settings. You can change and even add new properties here
although you should be careful.

For further information on Firefox profiles see
http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Profiles

Before SpiderFixture opens the browser, it will create a brand new
profile just as if you’d installed Firefox for the first time. You can
use the SpiderFixture’s “firefox profile” call to directly manipulate
those same about:config properties. Here’s an example of some of the
properties I use.

|''firefox profile''|network.proxy.http|''as string''|myproxy|
|''firefox profile''|network.proxy.type|''as integer''|1|
|''firefox profile''|network.proxy.http_port|''as integer''|5862|
|''firefox profile''|network.proxy.no_proxies_on|''as
string''|localhost, 127.0.0.1|
|''firefox profile''|app.update.enabled|''as boolean''|false|
|''firefox profile''|extensions.update.enabled|''as boolean''|false|
|''firefox profile''|layout.spellcheckDefault|''as integer''|0|
|''firefox profile''|browser.formfill.enable|''as boolean''|false|

Again you can figure out what works for you by making changes in Firefox
and looking at the values in about:config.

The benefit of this approach is that anyone can run your tests without
needing to create a Firefox profile beforehand. However SpiderFixture
will allow you to use a specific profile if you want to, using:

|use firefox profile|MyProfileNameHere|

When you do this, Spiderfixture will create a copy of this profile, so
that you can even reconfigure it using further “firefox profile” options
and it will have a separate session / cookies etc. Sometimes you’ll want
to use a specific profile because some of Firefox’s options cannot be
set with about:config properties. i.e. disabling the Flash add-on or
installing extensions.

Darren

#14139 From: "ssaha_ghx" <ssaha@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:57 am
Subject: Symbol usage in SliM
ssaha_ghx
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Consider the following Symbol related test on SliM:

!|script|java.lang.String|STRING_VALUE|
|$VAR=  |get bytes                    |

!|script|java.lang.String|$VAR        |
|check  |to string       |STRING_VALUE|

I was expecting to see the appropriate byte[] being used for the second
instantiation. It seems however that SliM is using the toString value instead of
the byte[] reference.

|script                 |java.lang.String|STRING_VALUE|
|$VAR<-[[B@15eb0a9] |get bytes                    |

|script|java.lang.String|$VAR->[[B@15eb0a9]                  |
|check |to string       |[[B@15eb0a9] expected [STRING_VALUE]|

Am I missing something about how Symbols behave in SliM? I see similar behavior
when trying to use a symbol that was previously populated with a custom object.
When trying to use it in an api that uses java.lang.Object as the parameter, it
complains about not finding a converter for Object.

-Sanjeev

#14138 From: "Sanjeev Saha" <ssaha@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:29 am
Subject: Symbol usage in SliM
ghx.ssaha
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Consider the following Symbol related test on SliM:

!|script|java.lang.String|STRING_VALUE|
|$VAR=  |get bytes                    |

!|script|java.lang.String|$VAR        |
|check  |to string       |STRING_VALUE|

I was expecting to see the appropriate byte[] being used for the second
instantiation. It seems however that SliM is using the toString value instead of
the byte[] reference.

|script                 |java.lang.String|STRING_VALUE|
|$VAR<-[[B@15eb0a9] |get bytes                    |

|script|java.lang.String|$VAR->[[B@15eb0a9]                  |
|check |to string       |[[B@15eb0a9] expected [STRING_VALUE]|

Am I missing something about how Symbols behave in SliM?

-Sanjeev


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#14137 From: Rick Mugridge <rick@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:10 am
Subject: Re: Can you help a newbie out with FitLibrary / SpiderFixture
rickmugridge
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Hi Tony,

Writing a guide is on my list of things to do. Given your prompting, I will aim to get on to it in 2-3 days. I'll answer your immediate questions below...

tony_t_tubbs wrote:
 

I think I've jumped in the deep end here...

My end goal is to test my (SmartCliet based) web app. I hit a wall trying WebTest, but have had some luck with WebDriver. This has brought me to the SpiderFixture. Through trial and error I have hacked a test together, but only just...

I guess my base question is can you provide the recipe a newbie needs to follow to get up to speed on using this combo of tools?

Some background
- I see SpecSetUp is magically included on some pages. How?


SpecSetUp is explicitly included in each of the specification storytests for SpiderFixture. However, you won't need it in your storytests, as it's there purely to support the self-testing of SpiderFixture itself.

For more realistic (but short) examples of how to approach it, see the two examples at FitLibraryWeb.SpiderFixture.TestGoogle and TestAmazon. Sorry I don't (yet) have more substantial examples; SpiderFixture has been used extensively on several client projects but they're not available for public viewing!

- There is a series of |firefox profile| stuff I was able to hack to get through my proxy, but would like to learn more.


Yes, I would too! I will ask someone who is more knowledgeable about profiles and proxies to write something up. There's also a little info on the WebDriver website.

- I tried to add a SetUp page as I have done in FitNesse, but this seems to be assumed or built in now. I had to delete and add using the page footer link. WT-?


FitNesse uses the closest SetUp in the ancestors of the current page. So add a SetUp page more closely and it will be auto-included instead of the other one.

- I'm trying to get a picture of how all the new layers play together: SetUp, SuitSetUp, SpecSetUp etc. (or at least I didn't see all of these in just FitNesse).


SpecSetUp is explained above. You won't need SuiteSetUp - at least for now.

SuiteSetUp is managed by FitNesse and is run before any test or suite below it in the page structure. I use it in the SpdierFixture specs so that I can tag some storytests to specify that they only run on FireFox, for example. This makes it easy for me to allow for minor differences in different browsers.


Is there a guide, and I just missed it? I appreciate the tools and work that must have gone into them, but a small, yet friendly, criticism is that it is slow going for a newbie. A few how-to guides would be much appreciated (with a big please and thanks added in here). Sometimes command references just aren't enough.


I'm on to it. What other things would you like addressed? How do you find the documentation that's already provided (there's lots there on the various commands)? Do you find it useful to read the specs to understand any finer points of how things work?

I also have on my list to write an article on this, and especially how to use defined actions in association with SpiderFixture.

Cheers, Rick


Thanks all,
TT


#14136 From: Robert Martin <UncleBob@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:49 pm
Subject: Re: Trinidad test runner + Included pages
rmartinoma
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
> Re: Trinidad test runner + Included pagesPosted by: "adoptablecoho"
adoptablecoho@...
>    adoptablecohoMon Nov 9, 2009 1:47 pm (PST)
>
> This is my first time using Git, so I am stumbling a bit...
>
> I've made the changes to my local branch, and all compiles. When I
> run Fitnesse and browse to a test page CPU usage spikes (and stays)
> and takes a very long time to load the page (15 - 20 seconds.)
>
> I don't believe my changes in the trinidad namespace would have had
> this effect. I reached the end of my timebox for working on this
> today - but I thought I would check if anyone else working on the
> HEAD is seeing that behavior?

Yes, that's been fixed in the latest HEAD.


----
Robert C. Martin (Uncle Bob)  | email: unclebob@...
Object Mentor Inc.            | blog:  blog.objectmentor.com
The Agile Transition Experts  | web:   www.objectmentor.com
800-338-6716                  | twitter: unclebobmartin

#14135 From: "tony_t_tubbs" <tony_t_tubbs@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:16 pm
Subject: Can you help a newbie out with FitLibrary / SpiderFixture
tony_t_tubbs
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I think I've jumped in the deep end here...

My end goal is to test my (SmartCliet based) web app.  I hit a wall trying
WebTest, but have had some luck with WebDriver.  This has brought me to the
SpiderFixture.  Through trial and error I have hacked a test together, but only
just...

I guess my base question is can you provide the recipe a newbie needs to follow
to get up to speed on using this combo of tools?

Some background
- I see SpecSetUp is magically included on some pages.  How?
- There is a series of |firefox profile| stuff I was able to hack to get through
my proxy, but would like to learn more.
- I tried to add a SetUp page as I have done in FitNesse, but this seems to be
assumed or built in now.  I had to delete and add using the page footer link. 
WT-?
- I'm trying to get a picture of how all the new layers play together: SetUp,
SuitSetUp, SpecSetUp etc. (or at least I didn't see all of these in just
FitNesse).

Is there a guide, and I just missed it?  I appreciate the tools and work that
must have gone into them, but a small, yet friendly, criticism is that it is
slow going for a newbie.  A few how-to guides would be much appreciated (with a
big please and thanks added in here).  Sometimes command references just aren't
enough.

Thanks all,
TT

#14134 From: Robert Martin <UncleBob@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:39 pm
Subject: Re:textarea problem on Search page, in IE7
rmartinoma
Offline Offline
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> textarea problem on Search page, in IE7Posted by: "jroets01" jroets@...
>    jroets01Thu Nov 5, 2009 8:03 am (PST)
>
>
> In IE7 (maybe other IEs -- I didn't check), on the FitNesse Search
> page,
> there's a problem where the Tags textarea has no width. I was able to
> fix this in my instance by making a change to fitnesse_base.css. I'm
> not
> a css expert, so I don't know if this is the best solution. I did not
> test this change beyond my FF3.5 and IE7.

This was resolved recently and is in the EDGE version.  It will be in
the upcoming release.
----
Robert C. Martin (Uncle Bob)  | email: unclebob@...
Object Mentor Inc.            | blog:  blog.objectmentor.com
The Agile Transition Experts  | web:   www.objectmentor.com
800-338-6716                  | twitter: unclebobmartin

#14133 From: "villimucho" <villimucho@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:39 pm
Subject: Runing tests concurrently
villimucho
Offline Offline
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Is it possible to run multiple tests concurrently? I have a test suite that uses
Selenium, and it takes a really long time for it to complete. It would finish
much faster if there would be some way to specify that I want it to use more
than one thread. Is there any way to do this?

Thanks!

#14132 From: "shishkin_sergey" <sergei.shishkin@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:50 pm
Subject: EnumConverter for fitSharp
shishkin_sergey
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Hello,

I'd like to propose to include the following converter to fitSharp, so that
everybody can convert enums in .net out of the box. Thoughts?

Regards,
Sergey

public class EnumConverter : Operator<string>, ParseOperator<string>,
ComposeOperator<string>
{
     public bool CanParse(Type type, TypedValue instance, Tree<string>
parameters)
     {
         return IsMatch(type);
     }

     public TypedValue Parse(Type type, TypedValue instance, Tree<string>
parameters)
     {
         return new TypedValue(Enum.Parse(type, parameters.Value, true), type);
     }

     public bool CanCompose(TypedValue instance)
     {
         return IsMatch(instance.Type);
     }

     public Tree<string> Compose(TypedValue instance)
     {
         return new TreeLeaf<string>(Enum.GetName(instance.Type,
instance.Value));
     }

     private static bool IsMatch(Type type)
     {
         return type.IsEnum;
     }
}

#14131 From: "adoptablecoho" <adoptablecoho@...>
Date: Mon Nov 9, 2009 9:46 pm
Subject: Re: Trinidad test runner + Included pages
adoptablecoho
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
This is my first time using Git, so I am stumbling a bit...

I've made the changes to my local branch, and all compiles.   When I run
Fitnesse and browse to a test page CPU usage spikes (and stays) and takes a very
long time to load the page (15 - 20 seconds.)

I don't believe my changes in the trinidad namespace would have had this effect.
I reached the end of my timebox for working on this today  - but I thought I
would check if anyone else working on the HEAD is seeing that behavior?

--- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, Robert Martin <UncleBob@...> wrote:
>
> > Re: Trinidad test runner + Included pagesPosted by: "adoptablecoho"
adoptablecoho@...
> >    adoptablecohoTue Nov 3, 2009 10:23 am (PST)
> >
> >
> >
> > We are using Trinidad to run our fitnesse tests under Hudson. While
> > we haven't had trouble with !include's, we have had issues with it
> > not including SuiteSetup and SuiteTearDown.
> >
> > I spent some time with the Fitnesse code last week and found that
> > the FitnesseRepository is not adding these pages to the list of
> > pages to be executed.
> >
> > I added the following lines to "src/fitnesse/trinidad/
> > FitnesseRepository.java" after line 77:
> >
> > PageListSetUpTearDownSurrounder surrounder = new
> > PageListSetUpTearDownSurrounder(root);
> > surrounder
> > .surroundGroupsOfTestPagesWithRespectiveSetUpAndTearDowns(pages);
> >
> > I have not spent much time in the Fitnesse codebase, so I was not
> > confident about committing my change immediately. I wanted to see my
> > changes work in our environment for a bit before committing.
> >
> > If you think this might solve your problem, either grab the code and
> > make the change, or I can send you a copy of the jar that I built.
> >
> > - Michael
>
>
> Michael,
>
> That sounds like the right change.  If it works for you, please send
> me a pull request.
>
> ----
> Robert C. Martin (Uncle Bob)  | email: unclebob@...
> Object Mentor Inc.            | blog:  blog.objectmentor.com
> The Agile Transition Experts  | web:   www.objectmentor.com
> 800-338-6716                  | twitter: unclebobmartin
>

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