I've been using BOC on and off recently, but one thing that occurred
to me is that the message you get is not all that useful when
something goes wrong.  Red false... bad...

Maybe it would be nice to let the exception propagate on falses so you
can see why validation failed.  Maybe valid() should return a string
rather than a boolean?

I think there is a deeper thing though.  Having a column for the
valid() feels wrong to me even though I do it all the time.  Kind of
superfluous.  Seems like there ought to be a particular kind of fixture
for row entry.  Maybe a subclass of ColumnFixture which inserts a row
after rows that couldn't be entered, and gives you a reason why.

Would anyone here find that useful?

Michael Feathers
www.objectmentor.com

You Bastard!  I was just thinking this exact same thing last night!  A
derivative of ColumnFixture that accepted row after row and validated them.
I was trying to figure out how to turn indivdual cells within a row red.  I
thought maybe the valid() function would return the column number of the
invalid rows.  Your idea of a string is much better.

Write this fixture!  I expect to see it by Friday.  ;-)

Bob.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Feathers [mailto:mfeathers@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 8:50 AM
> To: fitnesse@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [fitnesse] Maybe BuildOperateCheck should tell you why?
>
>
>
>
> I've been using BOC on and off recently, but one thing that occurred
> to me is that the message you get is not all that useful when
> something goes wrong.  Red false... bad...
>
> Maybe it would be nice to let the exception propagate on falses so you
> can see why validation failed.  Maybe valid() should return a string
> rather than a boolean?
>
> I think there is a deeper thing though.  Having a column for the
> valid() feels wrong to me even though I do it all the time.  Kind of
> superfluous.  Seems like there ought to be a particular kind
> of fixture
> for row entry.  Maybe a subclass of ColumnFixture which inserts a row
> after rows that couldn't be entered, and gives you a reason why.
>
> Would anyone here find that useful?
>
> Michael Feathers
> www.objectmentor.com
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~-->
> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's
> Important Questions.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/03wwlB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------~->
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> fitnesse-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

My apologies to the list and to Michael.  This was meant to be a private
message.

Sorry.

Bob.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Martin UncleBob [mailto:UncleBob@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 8:32 PM
> To: 'fitnesse@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [fitnesse] Maybe BuildOperateCheck should tell you why?
>
>
> You Bastard!  I was just thinking this exact same thing last night!  A
> derivative of ColumnFixture that accepted row after row and
> validated them.
> I was trying to figure out how to turn indivdual cells within
> a row red.  I
> thought maybe the valid() function would return the column
> number of the
> invalid rows.  Your idea of a string is much better.
>
> Write this fixture!  I expect to see it by Friday.  ;-)
>
> Bob.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael Feathers [mailto:mfeathers@...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 8:50 AM
> > To: fitnesse@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [fitnesse] Maybe BuildOperateCheck should tell you why?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I've been using BOC on and off recently, but one thing that occurred
> > to me is that the message you get is not all that useful when
> > something goes wrong.  Red false... bad...
> >
> > Maybe it would be nice to let the exception propagate on
> falses so you
> > can see why validation failed.  Maybe valid() should return a string
> > rather than a boolean?
> >
> > I think there is a deeper thing though.  Having a column for the
> > valid() feels wrong to me even though I do it all the time.  Kind of
> > superfluous.  Seems like there ought to be a particular kind
> > of fixture
> > for row entry.  Maybe a subclass of ColumnFixture which
> inserts a row
> > after rows that couldn't be entered, and gives you a reason why.
> >
> > Would anyone here find that useful?
> >
> > Michael Feathers
> > www.objectmentor.com
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ---------------------~-->
> > Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's
> > Important Questions.
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/03wwlB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------~->
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > fitnesse-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~-->
> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's
> Important Questions.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/03wwlB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------~->
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> fitnesse-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

ROTFL!!

For people outside the company, that's the way the mentors
show each other approval.  If any of us seriously has an issue with
something someone has said or done, they start out like this "X, I
love you like a brother, but..."

Anyway, I'm about to go to bed, but I glanced at ColumnFixture and
RowFixture what I have in mind would go something like this..

(uncompiled, untested, but I'm sleepy):

public abstract class RowEntryFixture extends ColumnFixture
{
    protected Parse currentRow;
    protected abstract void enterRow() throws Exception;
    private final static String ERROR_POINTER = "^---";

    public void doRow(Parse row) {
       currentRow = row;
       if (currentRow.parts.body.equals(ERROR_POINTER))
          return;
       super.doRow(row);
       try {
          enterRow();
       } catch (Exception e) {
          reportError(e);
       }
    }

    protected void reportError(Exception e) {
       Parse errorRow = new Parse("tr", null, errorCells(e), null);
       insertRow(errorRow);
    }

    private void insertRow(Parse errorRow) {
       Parse next = currentRow.more;
       currentRow.more = errorRow;
       errorRow.more = next;
    }

    protected Parse errorCells(Exception e) {
       Parse marker = new Parse("td", ERROR_POINTER, null, null);
       marker.more = new Parse("td", e.getMessage(), null, null);
       wrong(marker);
       wrong(marker.more);
       return marker;
    }
}


The idea is to override the enterRow method and have it do the work of
taking the values of the row (via currentRow) and plugging them into
your application.  The code in ColumnFixture takes care of problems
related to type conversion, so the cells of the current row could be
marked red if there are problems there.  But if the whole row is
rejected, just throw an exception.  The message of the exception is
placed in a red line of two columns that is inserted between the bad
row and the next one.

When we doRow we need to skip over rows we've inserted, so that is why
we check for the error pointer text.


Michael (night, night)


RMU> My apologies to the list and to Michael.  This was meant to be a private
RMU> message.

RMU> Sorry.

RMU> Bob.

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Robert Martin UncleBob [mailto:UncleBob@...]
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 8:32 PM
>> To: 'fitnesse@yahoogroups.com'
>> Subject: RE: [fitnesse] Maybe BuildOperateCheck should tell you why?
>>
>>
>> You Bastard!  I was just thinking this exact same thing last night!  A
>> derivative of ColumnFixture that accepted row after row and
>> validated them.
>> I was trying to figure out how to turn indivdual cells within
>> a row red.  I
>> thought maybe the valid() function would return the column
>> number of the
>> invalid rows.  Your idea of a string is much better.
>>
>> Write this fixture!  I expect to see it by Friday.  ;-)
>>
>> Bob.
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Michael Feathers [mailto:mfeathers@...]
>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 8:50 AM
>> > To: fitnesse@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: [fitnesse] Maybe BuildOperateCheck should tell you why?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I've been using BOC on and off recently, but one thing that occurred
>> > to me is that the message you get is not all that useful when
>> > something goes wrong.  Red false... bad...
>> >
>> > Maybe it would be nice to let the exception propagate on
>> falses so you
>> > can see why validation failed.  Maybe valid() should return a string
>> > rather than a boolean?
>> >
>> > I think there is a deeper thing though.  Having a column for the
>> > valid() feels wrong to me even though I do it all the time.  Kind of
>> > superfluous.  Seems like there ought to be a particular kind
>> > of fixture
>> > for row entry.  Maybe a subclass of ColumnFixture which
>> inserts a row
>> > after rows that couldn't be entered, and gives you a reason why.
>> >
>> > Would anyone here find that useful?
>> >
>> > Michael Feathers
>> > www.objectmentor.com
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>> > ---------------------~-->
>> > Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's
>> > Important Questions.
>> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/03wwlB/TM
>> > --------------------------------------------------------------
>> > -------~->
>> >
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> > fitnesse-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>> ---------------------~-->
>> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's
>> Important Questions.
>> http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/03wwlB/TM
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------~->
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> fitnesse-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> 
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
RMU> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


RMU> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
RMU> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
RMU> fitnesse-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



RMU> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.





--
Best regards,
  Michael                            mailto:mfeathers@...

You may have already considered this, but will there be a story to
separate Fixtures by sub-wiki, such that the Table Wizard will
present only those Fixtures that apply to a given project?

It may also be useful to have a set of Fixtures available to all sub-
wikis.


--- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, Micah Martin <micah@o...> wrote:
> Release 20030509 is now available via sourceforge.net
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/fitnesse/
>
> Don't miss the new Table Wizard feature!
> http://fitnesse.org/FitNesse.TableWizard
> It's in a infant stage but it is very promising.  It will be a huge
help in
> creating test tables!
>
> If you like using Excel, be sure to checkout the "Paste From Excel"
feature.
> http://fitnesse.org/FitNesse.PasteFromExcel
>
> Who says you cant test HTML?  We do!
>
http://fitnesse.org/FitNesse.SuiteAcceptanceTests.HtmlTests.FrontPageT
est
> This is testing the FrontPage in detail.  More on this to come.
>
> Enjoy,
> Micah
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Micah Martin  -  micah@o...
> Software Developer  -  Object Mentor, Inc.
> www.objectmentor.com

Yes.  In the next release the fixture list will work like the classpaths.
Currently, the Table Wizard looks for its fixtures in <root>/FixtureList.
After the update you will be able to create a FixtureList page in any
sub-wiki, and the test pages will search upward through the hierarchy,
appending all the entries in the FixtureList pages it finds along the way.
There will also be a new widget used to specify the existance of a fixture,
namely !fixture.

Chris
Chris Biegay         | Software Engineer
Object Mentor, Inc.  | cbiegay@...
www.objectmentor.com | www.fitnesse.org
www.junit.org        | www.agilealliance.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Gardner [mailto:chris_gardner76@...]
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 12:25 PM
To: fitnesse@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fitnesse] Table Wizard (was Re: release 20030509)


You may have already considered this, but will there be a story to
separate Fixtures by sub-wiki, such that the Table Wizard will
present only those Fixtures that apply to a given project?

It may also be useful to have a set of Fixtures available to all sub-
wikis.


--- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, Micah Martin <micah@o...> wrote:
> Release 20030509 is now available via sourceforge.net
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/fitnesse/
>
> Don't miss the new Table Wizard feature!
> http://fitnesse.org/FitNesse.TableWizard
> It's in a infant stage but it is very promising.  It will be a huge
help in
> creating test tables!
>
> If you like using Excel, be sure to checkout the "Paste From Excel"
feature.
> http://fitnesse.org/FitNesse.PasteFromExcel
>
> Who says you cant test HTML?  We do!
>
http://fitnesse.org/FitNesse.SuiteAcceptanceTests.HtmlTests.FrontPageT
est
> This is testing the FrontPage in detail.  More on this to come.
>
> Enjoy,
> Micah
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Micah Martin  -  micah@o...
> Software Developer  -  Object Mentor, Inc.
> www.objectmentor.com


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
fitnesse-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

For the last few months we've been using FitNesse at XP Immersion.  This
turns out to be very cool.  The application the students write is a payroll
application.  We have a set of acceptance tests all set up in a FitNesse
wiki.  We supply the initial fixtures, and a do-nothing facade that
represents the starting point of the application.

For example, we'll have a fixture that adds employees to a database, another
that pays employees, and another that inspects paychecks.  These fixtures
make calls to a Payroll Facade that looks like this:

public class PayrollApplication {
   public static boolean addEmployee(int id, String name,
                                     String address, double salary);
   public static boolean payEmployees(int checkNumber, Date payDate);
   public static PayCheck[] getPayChecks();
}

The students use the acceptance tests as their stories.  Those tests all
turn red at first.  Table by table they make them turn green.  Then they
move on to the next test page.

The students have no trouble understanding the requirements of the
application because they are unambiguously represented by the FitNesse
tables.  It's cool to watch them write unit tests for functions that are
intended to make acceptance tests pass.

-----------------------------------------------
Robert C. Martin    |
President & Founder |
Object Mentor Inc.  | unclebob @ objectmentor dot com
PO Box 5757         | Tel: (800) 338-6716 x15
565 Lakeview Pkwy   | Fax: (847) 573-1658
Suite 135           |
Vernon Hills, IL,   | www.objectmentor.com
60061               |
-----------------------------------------------

Fitnessers:

Okay. I downloaded it, and managed to serve it.

We don't do Java. We do Perl and C++.

So maybe the command system shells to a console (on the server), and I can
override it.

I write a page with this on it:

     !define COMMAND_PATTERN {notepad %p}

     |test|

Complaint 1: The test table sometimes appears as bars, not a cute table. And
sometimes it disappears.

Complaint 2: How does the data in the table (if I had one) get into the
Notepad?

Please accept these naive questions in the spirit of exploiting my naivete
for our mutual benefit towards the documentation (and away from Java ;-).

--
   Phlip
     http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?TestFirstUserInterfaces

Jim Weirich wrote:

> I've been using FitNesse with a Ruby version of Fit with some success.
> Here is my approach ... I wrote a Java class (named
> fitnesse.ruby.RubyFilter) that invokes a Ruby Fit library and sends it
> HTML as standard input and receives the updated HTML from its standard
> output.  This (I suspect) is somewhat the same way the Java
> fitnesse.FitFilter works.
>
> Then, instead of saying !r fitnesse.FitFilter on a wiki page, I will
> say:  !r fitnesse.ruby.RubyFilter
>
> This works great!
>
> Except ...

Awe, Jim - this is what we all need! (or at least me.)

Could you toss the critical code samples onto the main fitnesse wiki?

--
   Phlip
     http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?TestFirstUserInterfaces

I just looked at the files in CVS. What does the dotnet stuff do?

Frank.

I have posted a feature request to the Wiki:

Enhancement to variable resolution - on a page that attempts to
resolve a variable, it would be nice if we could see what variables
are missing (instead of seeing 'null').  This is particularly helpful
with pages that include other pages and only set variables, since
there is no quick navigation to the included pages.


For example, we have many test pages that are nothing more than OS
variations:

TestBillyWinTwok:

!define name (Billy)
!define address (win2k.xb.com)
!include .CommonTests.User

TestJillWinTwokt

!define name (Jill)
!include .CommonTests.User


However, when I look at TestJillWinTwokt, then the place that is
supposed to resolve the variable "address" simply displays "null."  It
would be nice if we could see "Undefined Variable: address" or
something.. :-).

In case anyone was wondering, you can grab some of the various Fit
libraries here:

http://fit.c2.com/wiki.cgi?DownloadNow

It should be easy enough to write simple FitNesse wrappers around each
of them and specify a property as to which language one is using, eh?

:-)

-S.

> FitNesse is in Java, but it can run acceptance tests in any language that
> has a version of FIT (fit.c2.com), as long as there is an interface hook.
>
> John Roth

> > > I need a DirtSimpleExample - not in Java.

Guys - that's what I need the DSE for - the interface hook. Is it written in
Java? What is the data path thru it?

This is a situation where I don't know what I don't know.

> > > --
> > >   Phlip

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phlip [mailto:plumlee@...]
> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 10:23 PM
> To: fitnesse@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [fitnesse] If I had read the documentation...
>
>
> Fitnessers:
>
> Okay. I downloaded it, and managed to serve it.
>
> We don't do Java. We do Perl and C++.
>
> So maybe the command system shells to a console (on the
> server), and I can
> override it.
>
> I write a page with this on it:
>
>     !define COMMAND_PATTERN {notepad %p}
>
>     |test|
>
> Complaint 1: The test table sometimes appears as bars, not a
> cute table. And
> sometimes it disappears.

Make sure there is a blank line after the table.  (We're working on fixing
this.)

> Complaint 2: How does the data in the table (if I had one)
> get into the
> Notepad?

That is the magic of FIT.  Go to http://fit.c2.com and read about test
fixtures and the like.  Ward has build a wonderfully elegant little
framework that gathers the data from the tables and hands it to your
application.

FIT is written in Java, .Net, C++, Ruby, and a few others I think.  You'll
see the necessary links on the website.  I think Mike Feathers is still
holding the C++ version of FIT so if you want that you may have to get it
from him directly.  FitNesse does not care what language you are using, you
just have to set the variables appropriately.

-----------------------------------------------
Robert C. Martin    |
President & Founder |
Object Mentor Inc.  | unclebob @ objectmentor dot com
PO Box 5757         | Tel: (800) 338-6716 x15
565 Lakeview Pkwy   | Fax: (847) 573-1658
Suite 135           |
Vernon Hills, IL,   | www.objectmentor.com
60061               |
-----------------------------------------------

So far I've just been using double.  However, I'd like to make some
modifications to FIT that would allow expressions like:

    ">0" or "2.399<x<2.401"

This would allow us to do inequalities and range checking in all existing
fixtures.

In your case you might want to create a Money class.  It is not too hard to
add the necessary type converters to FIT so that it can translate table
cells to your classes.

-----------------------------------------------
Robert C. Martin    |
President & Founder |
Object Mentor Inc.  | unclebob @ objectmentor dot com
PO Box 5757         | Tel: (800) 338-6716 x15
565 Lakeview Pkwy   | Fax: (847) 573-1658
Suite 135           |
Vernon Hills, IL,   | www.objectmentor.com
60061               |
-----------------------------------------------



> -----Original Message-----
> From: hal arnold [mailto:halarnold2000@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 11:04 AM
> To: testdrivendevelopment@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [TDD] FitNesse at XP Immersion
>
>
> Hey Uncle Bob,
>
> Do you 'use' doubles for money things? I've been using
> BigDecimals (inside a Money class..), but it causes
> some difficulties with Struts/and some db's..Just
> wondering.
>
> -hba
> --- Robert Martin UncleBob <unclebob@...>
> wrote:
> > For the last few months we've been using FitNesse at
> > XP Immersion.  This
> > turns out to be very cool.  The application the
> > students write is a payroll
> > application.  We have a set of acceptance tests all
> > set up in a FitNesse
> > wiki.  We supply the initial fixtures, and a
> > do-nothing facade that
> > represents the starting point of the application.
> >
> > For example, we'll have a fixture that adds
> > employees to a database, another
> > that pays employees, and another that inspects
> > paychecks.  These fixtures
> > make calls to a Payroll Facade that looks like this:
> >
> > public class PayrollApplication {
> >   public static boolean addEmployee(int id, String
> > name,
> >                                     String address,
> > double salary);
> >   public static boolean payEmployees(int
> > checkNumber, Date payDate);
> >   public static PayCheck[] getPayChecks();
> > }
> >
> > The students use the acceptance tests as their
> > stories.  Those tests all
> > turn red at first.  Table by table they make them
> > turn green.  Then they
> > move on to the next test page.
> >
> > The students have no trouble understanding the
> > requirements of the
> > application because they are unambiguously
> > represented by the FitNesse
> > tables.  It's cool to watch them write unit tests
> > for functions that are
> > intended to make acceptance tests pass.
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------
> > Robert C. Martin    |
> > President & Founder |
> > Object Mentor Inc.  | unclebob @ objectmentor dot
> > com
> > PO Box 5757         | Tel: (800) 338-6716 x15
> > 565 Lakeview Pkwy   | Fax: (847) 573-1658
> > Suite 135           |
> > Vernon Hills, IL,   | www.objectmentor.com
> > 60061               |
> > -----------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
> http://calendar.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~-->
> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's
> Important Questions.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/NhFolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------~->
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> testdrivendevelopment-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

FWIW, I count pennies internally and then format for presentation.


On 6/10/03 3:39 PM, "Robert Martin UncleBob" <UncleBob@...>
wrote:

> So far I've just been using double.  However, I'd like to make some
> modifications to FIT that would allow expressions like:
>
>  ">0" or "2.399<x<2.401"
>
> This would allow us to do inequalities and range checking in all existing
> fixtures.
>
> In your case you might want to create a Money class.  It is not too hard to
> add the necessary type converters to FIT so that it can translate table
> cells to your classes.
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> Robert C. Martin    |
> President & Founder |
> Object Mentor Inc.  | unclebob @ objectmentor dot com
> PO Box 5757         | Tel: (800) 338-6716 x15
> 565 Lakeview Pkwy   | Fax: (847) 573-1658
> Suite 135           |
> Vernon Hills, IL,   | www.objectmentor.com
> 60061               |
> -----------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: hal arnold [mailto:halarnold2000@...]
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 11:04 AM
>> To: testdrivendevelopment@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [TDD] FitNesse at XP Immersion
>>
>>
>> Hey Uncle Bob,
>>
>> Do you 'use' doubles for money things? I've been using
>> BigDecimals (inside a Money class..), but it causes
>> some difficulties with Struts/and some db's..Just
>> wondering.
>>
>> -hba
>> --- Robert Martin UncleBob <unclebob@...>
>> wrote:
>>> For the last few months we've been using FitNesse at
>>> XP Immersion.  This
>>> turns out to be very cool.  The application the
>>> students write is a payroll
>>> application.  We have a set of acceptance tests all
>>> set up in a FitNesse
>>> wiki.  We supply the initial fixtures, and a
>>> do-nothing facade that
>>> represents the starting point of the application.
>>>
>>> For example, we'll have a fixture that adds
>>> employees to a database, another
>>> that pays employees, and another that inspects
>>> paychecks.  These fixtures
>>> make calls to a Payroll Facade that looks like this:
>>>
>>> public class PayrollApplication {
>>>   public static boolean addEmployee(int id, String
>>> name,
>>>                                     String address,
>>> double salary);
>>>   public static boolean payEmployees(int
>>> checkNumber, Date payDate);
>>>   public static PayCheck[] getPayChecks();
>>> }
>>>
>>> The students use the acceptance tests as their
>>> stories.  Those tests all
>>> turn red at first.  Table by table they make them
>>> turn green.  Then they
>>> move on to the next test page.
>>>
>>> The students have no trouble understanding the
>>> requirements of the
>>> application because they are unambiguously
>>> represented by the FitNesse
>>> tables.  It's cool to watch them write unit tests
>>> for functions that are
>>> intended to make acceptance tests pass.
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------
>>> Robert C. Martin    |
>>> President & Founder |
>>> Object Mentor Inc.  | unclebob @ objectmentor dot
>>> com
>>> PO Box 5757         | Tel: (800) 338-6716 x15
>>> 565 Lakeview Pkwy   | Fax: (847) 573-1658
>>> Suite 135           |
>>> Vernon Hills, IL,   | www.objectmentor.com
>>> 60061               |
>>> -----------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
>> http://calendar.yahoo.com
>>
>> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>> ---------------------~-->
>> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's
>> Important Questions.
>> http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/NhFolB/TM
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------~->
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> testdrivendevelopment-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> fitnesse-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

--
Robert Koss, Ph.D.     | Training, Mentoring, Contract Development
Senior Consultant      | Object Oriented Design, C++, Java
www.objectmentor.com   | Extreme Programming

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Martin UncleBob [mailto:UncleBob@...]
>
> So far I've just been using double.  However, I'd like to make some
> modifications to FIT that would allow expressions like:
>
>    ">0" or "2.399<x<2.401"

Hmmm.  I wonder if this would be better as:

    "(0,*]" or "[2.4,2.401)"

I'm starring on a Java application that provides Web Services for
clients.  I envision there will be at least three distributions of
the application on which acceptance tests can run:

* development server
* customer server (for customer testing and analysis)
* qa server

I plan to to use one instance of the FitNesse wiki to contain the
user stories and have the acceptance tests for a given user story
documented directly below that user story.  This, of course, is quite
achievable.  It would be neat, though, for users to specify which
distribution to run those acceptance tests against.  Moreover, it
would be preferable if the users could specify in one place which
distribution to use.

Is there a way to do this in FitNesse today?

Thanks.

Chris

I suppose you could use !r to run a Java program that specifies a
distribution configuration that the Fixtures could read.


--- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Gardner"
<chris_gardner76@y...> wrote:
> I'm starring on a Java application that provides Web Services for
> clients.  I envision there will be at least three distributions of
> the application on which acceptance tests can run:
>
> * development server
> * customer server (for customer testing and analysis)
> * qa server
>
> I plan to to use one instance of the FitNesse wiki to contain the
> user stories and have the acceptance tests for a given user story
> documented directly below that user story.  This, of course, is
quite
> achievable.  It would be neat, though, for users to specify which
> distribution to run those acceptance tests against.  Moreover, it
> would be preferable if the users could specify in one place which
> distribution to use.
>
> Is there a way to do this in FitNesse today?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Chris

Could you use a virtualwiki to point to the right web server, yet
execute one physical copy of the acceptance test (no matter what the
distribution)?

--- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Gardner"
<chris_gardner76@y...> wrote:
> I'm starring on a Java application that provides Web Services for
> clients.  I envision there will be at least three distributions of
> the application on which acceptance tests can run:
>
> * development server
> * customer server (for customer testing and analysis)
> * qa server
>
> I plan to to use one instance of the FitNesse wiki to contain the
> user stories and have the acceptance tests for a given user story
> documented directly below that user story.  This, of course, is
quite
> achievable.  It would be neat, though, for users to specify which
> distribution to run those acceptance tests against.  Moreover, it
> would be preferable if the users could specify in one place which
> distribution to use.
>
> Is there a way to do this in FitNesse today?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Chris

The Fit and FitNesse frameworks show a lot of potential for doing for
acceptance testing what JUnit did for unit testing.

However, when I started looking at it my immediate question was,
'Great, but how do I do it?'.  Examples are fine, but I was hoping for a
step-by-step walkthrough from downloading the stuff, installing it,
creating a new fixture and running it against an existing application.

The aim of such a tutorial would be to get a newbie like me up and
running in the shortest time possible.

The application I was looking at testing is a standard webapp. A basic
acceptance test case would be that the "user can enter financial
transactions into the system". This requires
- Log on
- Navigate to transaction entry
- Enter and save a transaction
- Navigate to the search screen
- Execute a search
- Verify that the transaction exists.

IMHO, the examples supplied are a little to trivial and give me little
assistance in creating a test like the above scenario.

Did anyone else get the same feeling when they first looked at the
framework?

Craig



**********************************************************************
*****   IMPORTANT INFORMATION    *****
This document should be read only by those persons to whom
it is addressed and its content is not intended for use by
any other persons. If you have received this message in
error, please notify us immediately. Please also destroy and
delete the message from your computer. Any unauthorised form
of reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited.
St.George is not liable for the proper and complete transmission
of the information contained in this communication, nor for any
delay in its receipt.
**********************************************************************

Craig Pardey wrote:

> The Fit and FitNesse frameworks show a lot of potential for doing for
> acceptance testing what JUnit did for unit testing.
>
> However, when I started looking at it my immediate question was,
> 'Great, but how do I do it?'.  Examples are fine, but I was hoping for a
> step-by-step walkthrough from downloading the stuff, installing it,
> creating a new fixture and running it against an existing application.
>
> The aim of such a tutorial would be to get a newbie like me up and
> running in the shortest time possible.
>
> The application I was looking at testing is a standard webapp. A basic
> acceptance test case would be that the "user can enter financial
> transactions into the system". This requires
> - Log on
> - Navigate to transaction entry
> - Enter and save a transaction
> - Navigate to the search screen
> - Execute a search
> - Verify that the transaction exists.

  - in some other language besides Java

> IMHO, the examples supplied are a little to trivial and give me little
> assistance in creating a test like the above scenario.
>
> Did anyone else get the same feeling when they first looked at the
> framework?

I'm quoting your mail in full, only so it shall occupy more area on its
servers.

The Ward & OM factions are surrounded by the in-crowd. They don't might not
see anyone, from where they are, who hasn't been able to simply pair on
these topics.

--
   Phlip
          http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?RatAndTuyen
   --  DARE to resist drug-war profiteering  --

> I was hoping for a
> step-by-step walkthrough from downloading the stuff,
> installing it,  creating a new fixture and running
> it against an existing application.

  Craig,

  XP-Cincinnati is putting together an on-line event
  scheduling application guided by fit/fitnesse and junit.
  We spend 3 hours in each monthly meeting.  And a little
  time in between. You can watch it evolve if you'd like.

  So far we have 49 unit tests (mostly of the fixtures),
  and about 9 fitnesse test pages.

  Get the latest src zip file at
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xp-cincinnati/files/

  You need to supply: ant & tomcat.
  So far the app can log-on/log-off.

  Feel free to post design or usage questions
  and suggestions to the xp-cinci mailing list.

  Regards,
  -Mark Windholtz,
  www.ObjectWind.com  (513)226-8259

  "Two ways of constructing software:
   (1) make it so simple that there are obviously no bugs,
   (2) make it so complicated that there are no obvious bugs.
   Making it simple is far more difficult."   -C.Hoare



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig Pardey [mailto:pardeyc@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 5:07 PM
> To: fitnesse@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [fitnesse] Tutorial
>
>
>
> The Fit and FitNesse frameworks show a lot of potential for doing for
> acceptance testing what JUnit did for unit testing.
>
> However, when I started looking at it my immediate question was,
> 'Great, but how do I do it?'.  Examples are fine, but I was hoping for a
> step-by-step walkthrough from downloading the stuff, installing it,
> creating a new fixture and running it against an existing application.
>
> The aim of such a tutorial would be to get a newbie like me up and
> running in the shortest time possible.
>
> The application I was looking at testing is a standard webapp. A basic
> acceptance test case would be that the "user can enter financial
> transactions into the system". This requires
> - Log on
> - Navigate to transaction entry
> - Enter and save a transaction
> - Navigate to the search screen
> - Execute a search
> - Verify that the transaction exists.
>
> IMHO, the examples supplied are a little to trivial and give me little
> assistance in creating a test like the above scenario.
>
> Did anyone else get the same feeling when they first looked at the
> framework?
>
> Craig
>
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> *****   IMPORTANT INFORMATION    *****
> This document should be read only by those persons to whom
> it is addressed and its content is not intended for use by
> any other persons. If you have received this message in
> error, please notify us immediately. Please also destroy and
> delete the message from your computer. Any unauthorised form
> of reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited.
> St.George is not liable for the proper and complete transmission
> of the information contained in this communication, nor for any
> delay in its receipt.
> **********************************************************************
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> fitnesse-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

>> IMHO, the examples supplied are a little to trivial and give me little
>> assistance in creating a test like the above scenario.
>>
>> Did anyone else get the same feeling when they first looked at the
>> framework?

P> I'm quoting your mail in full, only so it shall occupy more area on its
P> servers.

P> The Ward & OM factions are surrounded by the in-crowd. They don't might not
P> see anyone, from where they are, who hasn't been able to simply pair on
P> these topics.

Actually, I've been helping a guy "get" FIT through email for a while.
It's true that pairing gets past many issues, but I think that there
is something deeper here.

Application level architecture has much more variation than class
level architecture.  If you are testing with JUnit, you have a couple
of different scenarios to tackle: I push, you pull, my effect is on
the other object, etc.  Figuring out where to fit FIT in an
application is a bigger deal.  Sometimes you have to do some
refactoring to get a good set of places to latch onto.

The other issue is that the FIT code is very simple, but it is also
very "compressed."  Understanding the code doesn't imply that
you understand the ramifications of the code.  It does a little, but
enables a lot.  To me, much more so than xUnit.

So yes, we need more people to write up their experiences.

Michael

After doing some reading at fitnesse.org, I'm wondering if the
following will work:

1.  Define a markup variable at the root of the sub-wiki to have the
value of a server to which to connect.

2.  Pass this variable in to the fixtures as part of the tests.


Alternatively, is there a way to pass a system property with the value
of the server in the COMMAND_PATTERN?

Sorry to keep going on--I'm grasping for straws.


--- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Gardner"
<chris_gardner76@y...> wrote:
> I'm starring on a Java application that provides Web Services for
> clients.  I envision there will be at least three distributions of
> the application on which acceptance tests can run:
>
> * development server
> * customer server (for customer testing and analysis)
> * qa server
>
> I plan to to use one instance of the FitNesse wiki to contain the
> user stories and have the acceptance tests for a given user story
> documented directly below that user story.  This, of course, is quite
> achievable.  It would be neat, though, for users to specify which
> distribution to run those acceptance tests against.  Moreover, it
> would be preferable if the users could specify in one place which
> distribution to use.
>
> Is there a way to do this in FitNesse today?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Chris

Greetings:

I've read a few posts requesting real step-by-step examples about how
to set up FitNesse, so here are my startup experiences for those who
are interested ..

- downloaded FitNesse and decompressed it into a folder on my hard disk
- (optional step..hehe) created an InstallAnywhere project that would
install FitNesse as a Windows Service automatically.. :-)
- created a separate folder in the FitNesseRoot/files directory for my
application's .JAR files (app)
- created a separate main page for our acceptance tests (e.g. SuiteXbas)
- in the SuiteXbas page, created .SuiteXbas.ClassPath that looked the
same as the standard ClassPath, but also included my application's
.JAR files:

   !path fit.jar
   !path fitnesse.jar
   !path FitNesseRoot/files/app/app.jar
   !path FitNesseRoot/files/lib/xerces.jar
     ...

- performed an analysis of my application as to which "entry point"
was the best, to avoid having changes to UI affect the ways in which I
test the data.  Here comes the custom part..
   - since our app was designed to have a very thin servlet layer which
takes parameters on the command line, wraps them into a "session
state" object, and sends them to the main engine, expecting an XML
response that it can reformat using an XSL transform, I simply
"stripped off" the servlets, and provided a fixture which did the same
sorts of things .. a ScreenRequester.  Since we had a single
entry-point into the application already, I just plugged the fixture
into the same place that the servlet was plugged into.
   - the ScreenRequester fixture was responsible for receiving "chunks"
of data given a series of parameters.  It then passed the data off to
various helper objects that held information for the current session
(page)
   - a series of "testers" provided fields/methods useful for parsing
and examining certain bits of the received output, and also providing
navigation between "screens" of information
   - created a custom ActionFixture that allows me to see the output of
a page in formatted XML (added show()) just for debugging
   - created a .SuiteXbas.SetUp page which called our xb.Setup fixture,
which sets up the general environment that our application expected
(pointing it to the configuration directory, setting up the log4j
logger, etc)
   - created a .SuiteXbas.TearDown page which called xb.Teardown
fixture, which cleans up any open resources, closes database
connections, etc.  It also contains at the bottom a call to
fit.Summary, just 'cause I like to see what happened after every test
- wrapped up all the fixtures that I created into a file called
xbasFixture.jar, and dropped that file into FitNesseRoot/files/app and
added it to the .SuiteXbas.ClassPath:

   !path FitNesseRoot/files/app/xbasFixture.jar

- Created my first test page.. .SuiteXbas.TestGetVersion
|xb.ActionFixture|
|start|xb.ScreenRequester|
|enter|screen|VERSION|
|press|request|
|show|output||

|xb.TextTester|
|pattern|matches()|
|.*?App version:[0-9]+\.[0-9]+.*|true|

|xb.LinkTester|
|display|exists()|storeLink()|
|Home|true||

|xb.ActionFixture|
|start|xb.ScreenRequester|
|press|follow link|

etc..

- Pressed Suite .. watched it fail a few times 'cause I forgot a
library or two .. added them to the ClassPath and it went off without
a hitch.

Since we're a Java shop, I didn't have to do anything else special.
However, I'll play around with FitNesse in Perl (if I get time) to see
if I can come up with a "concrete" example of doing it cross-language.

Hope this helps..

-S.

Using the virtual wiki feature of FitNesse is what I would recommend for
this.  You specify the tests beneath a distribution neutral page.  Then you
link (using virtual wiki) those pages beneath distribution specific pages.
The distribution specific pages define variables and classpaths that are
unique to the distributions.

-----------------------------------------------
Robert C. Martin    |
President & Founder |
Object Mentor Inc.  | unclebob @ objectmentor dot com
PO Box 5757         | Tel: (800) 338-6716 x15
565 Lakeview Pkwy   | Fax: (847) 573-1658
Suite 135           |
Vernon Hills, IL,   | www.objectmentor.com
60061               |
-----------------------------------------------



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Gardner [mailto:chris_gardner76@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 4:04 PM
> To: fitnesse@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [fitnesse] Re: Configuring Fixtures
>
>
> Could you use a virtualwiki to point to the right web server, yet
> execute one physical copy of the acceptance test (no matter what the
> distribution)?
>
> --- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Gardner"
> <chris_gardner76@y...> wrote:
> > I'm starring on a Java application that provides Web Services for
> > clients.  I envision there will be at least three distributions of
> > the application on which acceptance tests can run:
> >
> > * development server
> > * customer server (for customer testing and analysis)
> > * qa server
> >
> > I plan to to use one instance of the FitNesse wiki to contain the
> > user stories and have the acceptance tests for a given user story
> > documented directly below that user story.  This, of course, is
> quite
> > achievable.  It would be neat, though, for users to specify which
> > distribution to run those acceptance tests against.  Moreover, it
> > would be preferable if the users could specify in one place which
> > distribution to use.
> >
> > Is there a way to do this in FitNesse today?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Chris
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~-->
> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's
> Important Questions.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/03wwlB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------~->
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> fitnesse-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I guess that each distribution specific wiki need its own copy of any
fixture jar or class files.  I expect that I'll use ant to deploy to
any and all specific wikis.

--- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, Robert Martin UncleBob
<UncleBob@o...> wrote:
> Using the virtual wiki feature of FitNesse is what I would recommend for
> this.  You specify the tests beneath a distribution neutral page.
Then you
> link (using virtual wiki) those pages beneath distribution specific
pages.
> The distribution specific pages define variables and classpaths that are
> unique to the distributions.
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> Robert C. Martin    |
> President & Founder |
> Object Mentor Inc.  | unclebob @ objectmentor dot com
> PO Box 5757         | Tel: (800) 338-6716 x15
> 565 Lakeview Pkwy   | Fax: (847) 573-1658
> Suite 135           |
> Vernon Hills, IL,   | www.objectmentor.com
> 60061               |
> -----------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chris Gardner [mailto:chris_gardner76@y...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 4:04 PM
> > To: fitnesse@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [fitnesse] Re: Configuring Fixtures
> >
> >
> > Could you use a virtualwiki to point to the right web server, yet
> > execute one physical copy of the acceptance test (no matter what the
> > distribution)?
> >
> > --- In fitnesse@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Gardner"
> > <chris_gardner76@y...> wrote:
> > > I'm starring on a Java application that provides Web Services for
> > > clients.  I envision there will be at least three distributions of
> > > the application on which acceptance tests can run:
> > >
> > > * development server
> > > * customer server (for customer testing and analysis)
> > > * qa server
> > >
> > > I plan to to use one instance of the FitNesse wiki to contain the
> > > user stories and have the acceptance tests for a given user story
> > > documented directly below that user story.  This, of course, is
> > quite
> > > achievable.  It would be neat, though, for users to specify which
> > > distribution to run those acceptance tests against.  Moreover, it
> > > would be preferable if the users could specify in one place which
> > > distribution to use.
> > >
> > > Is there a way to do this in FitNesse today?
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Chris
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ---------------------~-->
> > Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's
> > Important Questions.
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/03wwlB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------~->
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > fitnesse-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

<UncleBob@o...> wrote:
> Also consider HtmlFixture in the FitNesse distribution.
>  It is based on HtmlUnit.

   Sounds useful.
   But I can't find this in the 2003-05-09 distribution.
   What package is HtmlFixture in?

   Thanks,
   - Mark Windholtz.

test