http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak/_Referenzgrammatik/_Phonetik/

This page contains some of the most interesting examples of Germanic
evolutions of vowels and cononants. Check it out! :)

Stephan

Greetings! (my first post)

There are two roots in PGmc., probably related. (I give the meanings
of their reflexes as given by V. Orel)

*gatwon (f) "thoroughfare, street, passage, quarter"
*gatan (n) "hole, gate, door, opening, eye of a needle"  for *gatan
(*gatam) Koebler has only "hole" (the other meanings may have arisen
through confusion with *gatwon or coincidence).

It is interesting to try to connect or relate these with either
*gazdaz "sting, goad, spike" or *ga-ng-anan "to go, walk" (cf.
*ganhtiz < *gangjanan; also EGmc. cf. *therh[w]e "through", *therko[n]
"hole").


--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Stephan Schneider" <sts@...> wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> According to Kluge DE "Gasse" is of unknown origin. mhd. gazze, ahd.
gazza. anord. gata and gt. gatwo "street of a town, square ("Platz")".
>
> Gatter (. Jh.), mhd. gater, had. gataro, mndd. gaddere. Hierzu
stimmt semantisch am genauesten ae. geat, gat "Tor, Gatter, Schranke"
(-> Gat(t)). Weitere Herkunft unklar. -> ergattern, -> Gitter
>
> Gat(t) "Loch, Öse" per. ndd. (16. Jh.), as. gat., afr. jet, gat
"Loch", ae. g(e)at "Tor, Tür, Öffnung", anord. gat "Loch".
Niederdeutsch/niederländisch (dialektal) bedeutet das Wort auch
"Arschloch" und in dieser Bedeutung könnte es angeschlossen werden an
ig. *ghed- "scheißen" (ai. hadati, gr. chezo). Es ist aber wohl
ausgeschlossen, daß aus einer solhen Bedeutung ein neutrales "Loch,
Tür, Tor" wird, wie es für das Germanische vorauszusetzen ist. Deshalb
handelt es sich wohl nu um eine zufällige Ähnlichkeit. Hierher
Kattegat "Loch in der Tür für die Katze" als Name einer Meerenge
(Skagerrak).
> -> Gatter, Speigatt
>
> Gitter
> Offenbar eine jüngere Abwandung zu -> Gatter und damit in seiner
Herkunft unklar wie dieses.
>
> Bye,
> Stephan
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings! (my first post)
>
> There are two roots in PGmc., probably related. (I give the
meanings
> of their reflexes as given by V. Orel)
>
> *gatwon (f) "thoroughfare, street, passage, quarter"
> *gatan (n) "hole, gate, door, opening, eye of a needle"  for *gatan
> (*gatam) Koebler has only "hole" (the other meanings may have
arisen
> through confusion with *gatwon or coincidence).
>
> It is interesting to try to connect or relate these with either
> *gazdaz "sting, goad, spike" or *ga-ng-anan "to go, walk" (cf.
> *ganhtiz < *gangjanan; also EGmc. cf. *therh[w]e "through", *therko
[n]
> "hole").

Thanks and welcome. Just curious, does your name have anything to do
with the Gothic word for people? "thiuda"?

R

I've been translating some Viking sagas. Here are a few words I have
used, any help or other suggestions appreciated.

BOSARDIG
a. = vicious, malicious
NL boosaadig, DE bösartig

GASTFRIHEID
n. = hospitality
NL gastvrijhid, DE Gastfreundscaft, SV, gästfrihet, DN gæstfrihed

WREKEN
v. = avenge
EN wreak, NL wreken, DE rächen

FRIPLATS (no to sure about this, I want a meaning of safe-place)
n. = sanctuary, asylum, refuge
NL vrijplaats, asyl, DE Zufluchtsort, SV fristad

SCREKLIG (my sc=SAMPA S)
a. = terrible
NL verschrikkelijk, DE schrecklich, SV skräcklig

HOF or KONINGHOF (if you want to be precise)
n. = court (royal)
NL hof, DE Hof, SV hov

JEDER(EN)
pers. pr. = everybody
NL iedereen, DE jeder

HORST
n. = grove (of trees)
EN hurst, Mid.NL horst, DE Horst

UNGELUK
n. = misfortune
EN "unlucky", NL ongeluk, DE Unglück, SV olycka

R

--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "tungol65" <rdw.young@...> wrote:
>
> --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@> wrote:
> >
> > Greetings! (my first post)
> >
> > There are two roots in PGmc., probably related. (I give the
> meanings
> > of their reflexes as given by V. Orel)
> >
> > *gatwon (f) "thoroughfare, street, passage, quarter"
> > *gatan (n) "hole, gate, door, opening, eye of a needle"  for *gatan
> > (*gatam) Koebler has only "hole" (the other meanings may have
> arisen
> > through confusion with *gatwon or coincidence).
> >
> > It is interesting to try to connect or relate these with either
> > *gazdaz "sting, goad, spike" or *ga-ng-anan "to go, walk" (cf.
> > *ganhtiz < *gangjanan; also EGmc. cf. *therh[w]e "through", *therko
> [n]
> > "hole").
>
> Thanks and welcome. Just curious, does your name have anything to do
> with the Gothic word for people? "thiuda"?
>
> R
>

Sorry, that's just my username. thiudans is Gothic for king or
national ruler, which would be different from PGmc. *kuningaz which if
I understand correctly emphasizes the personal noble descent (i.e.
child of the "kin" or perhpas *kuni "tribe") rather than *theudo(n) +
-an- (same suffix as in OE dryhten, orig. "warlord") which is the king
in the capacity of a people's ruler. not self-aggrandizing I assure
you. thiuda is related indeed, and means people or nation. It was more
or less a random choice when I was choosing an ID.

cheers,
Matthew

Can anyone point me to any websites or attempts to create a word-order
based interlanguage using Proto-Germanic roots? There was a latin one
a while ago but I would be interested of course to see a "Germanic"
version (with or without thematic vowels).

Cheers,
Matthew

> Sorry, that's just my username. thiudans is Gothic for king or
> national ruler, which would be different from PGmc. *kuningaz which
if
> I understand correctly emphasizes the personal noble descent (i.e.
> child of the "kin" or perhpas *kuni "tribe") rather than *theudo(n) +
> -an- (same suffix as in OE dryhten, orig. "warlord") which is the
king
> in the capacity of a people's ruler. not self-aggrandizing I assure
> you. thiuda is related indeed, and means people or nation. It was
more
> or less a random choice when I was choosing an ID.
>
> cheers,
> Matthew

OK, thanks for that, the word "thiudans" did sound familiar. I have
just found it in my Gothic wordlist.
You seem knowledgable in Gothic, Old English and Proto-Germanic. Are
you interested in languages professionally or as a hobby? Either way
your contributions are appreciated.

R

thank you. I have hobby interests in Gmc. and moderate yahoogroups
theudiskon and gothic-l. professions don't really allow for the
language construction or reconstruction hobbies and such thesis
proposals are at least frowned upon by academia as too speculative and
useless, which I would not necessarily disagree with (for academic
purposes). but the practicality of this project makes it an important
exception.

I hope I can contribute helpfully. I have Vladimir Orel's
Proto-Germanic roots (which only gives those for which there are
multiple Germanic languages showing reflexes), Streitberg, Falk Fick
Torp, etc., and of course Koebler's stuff online.


--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "tungol65" <rdw.young@...> wrote:
>
> > Sorry, that's just my username. thiudans is Gothic for king or
> > national ruler, which would be different from PGmc. *kuningaz which
> if
> > I understand correctly emphasizes the personal noble descent (i.e.
> > child of the "kin" or perhpas *kuni "tribe") rather than *theudo(n) +
> > -an- (same suffix as in OE dryhten, orig. "warlord") which is the
> king
> > in the capacity of a people's ruler. not self-aggrandizing I assure
> > you. thiuda is related indeed, and means people or nation. It was
> more
> > or less a random choice when I was choosing an ID.
> >
> > cheers,
> > Matthew
>
> OK, thanks for that, the word "thiudans" did sound familiar. I have
> just found it in my Gothic wordlist.
> You seem knowledgable in Gothic, Old English and Proto-Germanic. Are
> you interested in languages professionally or as a hobby? Either way
> your contributions are appreciated.
>
> R
>

Can you elaberate what you mean for "word-order based" And "thematic vowels"

thiudans wrote:

>Can anyone point me to any websites or attempts to create a word-order
>based interlanguage using Proto-Germanic roots? There was a latin one
>a while ago but I would be interested of course to see a "Germanic"
>version (with or without thematic vowels).
>
>Cheers,
>Matthew
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Browse the draft word lists!
>http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
>http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
>
>Browse Folkspraak-related links!
>http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hi. By word-order based I mean that it uses minimal inflection and
more word-order to define syntax. By thematic vowels I mean vowels
associated with the stem, forming the root. There are usually a (PIE o
class), u, i, ia (PIE io), - (zero stem, consonantal).. Also, by
"Proto-Germanic roots" I mean having the vowels and consonants of the
period between approximately 200 BC and 0 AD.


--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@...> wrote:
>
> Can you elaberate what you mean for "word-order based" And "thematic
vowels"
>
> thiudans wrote:
>
> >Can anyone point me to any websites or attempts to create a word-order
> >based interlanguage using Proto-Germanic roots? There was a latin one
> >a while ago but I would be interested of course to see a "Germanic"
> >version (with or without thematic vowels).
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Matthew
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Browse the draft word lists!
> >http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
> >http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
> >
> >Browse Folkspraak-related links!
> >http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Novial is an interesting conlang. It is in many ways a "euroclone"
like Interlingua, Ido, Esperanto, Lingua Franca Nova etc. But it is
less-romance and more germanic than most and the syntax is very analytic.

I'm still not entirely sure that I understand thematic vowels. Do you
mean forming words by systematic application of ablaut sequences?

My dialect of Folksprak is more inflected and naturalistic than is
strictly necessary for an international auxiliary language. I guess I
love germanic languages too much to loose some of the distinctive
germanic baggage, such as pronouns that inflect for case and strong
verbs and V2 word order. But once one has a basis of vocabulary, it
should be relatively straight-forward to strip away all the complex
stuff and turn it into a strictly analytic pidgin. Do I want to get so
logical and simple, yet so un-natural is another matter. For example
should the word for "left" be "miss-reht"? Should the word for "woman"
be "mann-in"? That would, for me, be, double plus un-good.

When forming a con-lang for communication between germanic language
speakers, I think looking at the latest common ancester of the modern
languages is important. So we can to some extent ignore Gothic, since
it was an unproductive dead-end branch of the Germanic languages.
Isn't the most widely accepted current hypothesis of the evolution of
the germlangs, that Gothic was an early off-shoot from PG, and the
North and West Germanic languages retained a common ancester for longer?

The PG that I find most interesting is the form it would have had
after it had split into North-West and East; the North-West dialect
immediately before it diverged into West Germanic and Norse.


--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@...> wrote:
>
> Hi. By word-order based I mean that it uses minimal inflection and
> more word-order to define syntax. By thematic vowels I mean vowels
> associated with the stem, forming the root. There are usually a (PIE o
> class), u, i, ia (PIE io), - (zero stem, consonantal).. Also, by
> "Proto-Germanic roots" I mean having the vowels and consonants of the
> period between approximately 200 BC and 0 AD.
>
>
> --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
> >
> > Can you elaberate what you mean for "word-order based" And "thematic
> vowels"
> >
> > thiudans wrote:
> >
> > >Can anyone point me to any websites or attempts to create a
word-order
> > >based interlanguage using Proto-Germanic roots? There was a latin one
> > >a while ago but I would be interested of course to see a "Germanic"
> > >version (with or without thematic vowels).
> > >
> > >Cheers,
> > >Matthew
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Browse the draft word lists!
> > >http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
> > >http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
> > >
> > >Browse Folkspraak-related links!
> > >http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

I will look into that Novial.

I've noticed and not without some pleasure the maintaining of this
distinctly "germanic" sense in your Folkspraak. I think this was not
possible in the same way as the maintaining of a "romantic" sense was
in for example Interlingua. Romance languages had all nearly done away
with genitive case, yet that in particular remains strongly in even
the most reduced Germanic languages today (with perhaps exception of
some colloquial Norwegian and German dialects replacing with "av" and
"von"). A reduction to roots and word-order alone would be quite
foreign. The simplification of genders, plural forms, the conflation
and/or loss of unaccented vowels all seems in order, however, as does
especially the keeping of essential strong verb gradations (however
simplified). And furthermore, the natural, accepted feeling seems to
point to the heritage of low german predominance in the north sea and
scandinavia, which has in many ways taken the east norse languages
(danish and swedish, and dano-norwegian) into a sort of low german
pidgin which would naturally lean toward Dutch, low franconian or low
saxon rather than the earlier north-Germanic forms. When comparing,
say, Dutch, English, German & Swedish, the scale is already tipped in
favor of Low West German, which is perhaps as it should be for the
sake of finding that common middle ground practically speaking.

My imagination that someone might have constructed an Interlingua-form
of PGmc. was misleading in description, for I now realize that what I
was actually imagining was a form of low german with roots and sounds
more resembling PGmc., which would be quite more familiar, e.g. "Nu
havede all the werald ain tung and ain gamain razd/tal/spraek/...." as
opposed to "Nu habaide alla tha wera-alda aina tungon andi aina
gamaina razda." Neither show much use of case, but the earlier is much
more germanic sounding (at least to our modern ears). The latter
example incidentally attempts to show stem vowels without case endings.

EGmc. is commonly held to have diverged or experienced changes earlier
than other branches, but it appears curiously to share innovations
with NGmc. not found in WGmc., and with WGmc. similarities not shared
with NGmc., but I believe other similarities may also have existed
exclusively between W and N.


--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@...> wrote:
>
> Novial is an interesting conlang. It is in many ways a "euroclone"
> like Interlingua, Ido, Esperanto, Lingua Franca Nova etc. But it is
> less-romance and more germanic than most and the syntax is very
analytic.
>
> I'm still not entirely sure that I understand thematic vowels. Do you
> mean forming words by systematic application of ablaut sequences?
>
> My dialect of Folksprak is more inflected and naturalistic than is
> strictly necessary for an international auxiliary language. I guess I
> love germanic languages too much to loose some of the distinctive
> germanic baggage, such as pronouns that inflect for case and strong
> verbs and V2 word order. But once one has a basis of vocabulary, it
> should be relatively straight-forward to strip away all the complex
> stuff and turn it into a strictly analytic pidgin. Do I want to get so
> logical and simple, yet so un-natural is another matter. For example
> should the word for "left" be "miss-reht"? Should the word for "woman"
> be "mann-in"? That would, for me, be, double plus un-good.
>
> When forming a con-lang for communication between germanic language
> speakers, I think looking at the latest common ancester of the modern
> languages is important. So we can to some extent ignore Gothic, since
> it was an unproductive dead-end branch of the Germanic languages.
> Isn't the most widely accepted current hypothesis of the evolution of
> the germlangs, that Gothic was an early off-shoot from PG, and the
> North and West Germanic languages retained a common ancester for longer?
>
> The PG that I find most interesting is the form it would have had
> after it had split into North-West and East; the North-West dialect
> immediately before it diverged into West Germanic and Norse.
>
>
> --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi. By word-order based I mean that it uses minimal inflection and
> > more word-order to define syntax. By thematic vowels I mean vowels
> > associated with the stem, forming the root. There are usually a (PIE o
> > class), u, i, ia (PIE io), - (zero stem, consonantal).. Also, by
> > "Proto-Germanic roots" I mean having the vowels and consonants of the
> > period between approximately 200 BC and 0 AD.
> >
> >
> > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Can you elaberate what you mean for "word-order based" And "thematic
> > vowels"
> > >
> > > thiudans wrote:
> > >
> > > >Can anyone point me to any websites or attempts to create a
> word-order
> > > >based interlanguage using Proto-Germanic roots? There was a
latin one
> > > >a while ago but I would be interested of course to see a "Germanic"
> > > >version (with or without thematic vowels).
> > > >
> > > >Cheers,
> > > >Matthew
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Browse the draft word lists!
> > > >http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
> > > >http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
> > > >
> > > >Browse Folkspraak-related links!
> > > >http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Does it mean anything in any of the Germanic lingos?

Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Michael,

Not as far as I know. If you want to find out more about the Beothuk
Indians, check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beothuk

Bye,
Stephan

--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Michael Adams <abrigon@...> wrote:
>
> Does it mean anything in any of the Germanic lingos?
>
> Mike
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hello everyone!

I have updatet my Folksprak example texts on the Wikibook. Please take
a look and tell me if you like it.

http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak/_Beispiele


The orthography is based mostly on the examples given here (some kind
of Uberlist):

http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak/_Referenzgrammatik/_Phonetik/

I would appreciate your comments on this compilation, too.



The rest of the Wikibook pages is up to date, too. :-)

I'll be on vacations on monday, so have some nice holidays.


Bye,
Stephan

Interesting "timmermann". I had thought that the German cognate to EN
timber, (DE Zimmer), had completely semantically drifted from the
meaning shared by the other germlangs (wood). But I guess DE
Zimmermann preserves the older, original meaning of Zimmer.

The meaning of "Zimmer" was so different from "timber" that I only
recently saw the connection. Although I was too lazy to check on it, I
had always assumed that Zimmer was some sort of early Romance
borrowing from Latin Camera. (whence chamber)

--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "stefichjo" <sts@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone!
>
> I have updatet my Folksprak example texts on the Wikibook. Please take
> a look and tell me if you like it.
>
> http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak/_Beispiele
>
>
> The orthography is based mostly on the examples given here (some kind
> of Uberlist):
>
> http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak/_Referenzgrammatik/_Phonetik/
>
> I would appreciate your comments on this compilation, too.
>
>
>
> The rest of the Wikibook pages is up to date, too. :-)
>
> I'll be on vacations on monday, so have some nice holidays.
>
>
> Bye,
> Stephan
>

This concept doesn't seem to have a common word among the source
languages:

EN plumber
NL loodgieter (literally "lead pourer")
DE Klempner
SV rörmokare, rörarbetare
DA blikkenslager
NO rørlegger

The rör/rør in the Scandy words mean reed/pipe. I can't figure out
what a "mokare" does though.

Probably some sort of self-explanitory compound will be the only
solution, I think
Here are some of my suggestions:

pîparbêder (literally pipe-worker)
pîpmann (literally pipe-man)
pîpleger (literally pipe-layer)

May, given the English and Dutch words, some sort of "lead"
association wouldn't be inappropriate.

lödpîparbêder, lödpîpmann etc

--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@...> wrote:
>
> This concept doesn't seem to have a common word among the source
> languages:
>
> EN plumber
> NL loodgieter (literally "lead pourer")
> DE Klempner
> SV rörmokare, rörarbetare
> DA blikkenslager
> NO rørlegger
>
> The rör/rør in the Scandy words mean reed/pipe. I can't figure out
> what a "mokare" does though.
>
> Probably some sort of self-explanitory compound will be the only
> solution, I think
> Here are some of my suggestions:
>
> pîparbêder (literally pipe-worker)
> pîpmann (literally pipe-man)
> pîpleger (literally pipe-layer)
>
> May, given the English and Dutch words, some sort of "lead"
> association wouldn't be inappropriate.
>
> lödpîparbêder, lödpîpmann etc

I don't think lead is appropriate either since nowadays we use
copper or plastic.

I also thought of pîpinstaller (pipe-installer)

verbs - SV installera, NL installeren, DE installieren

R

tungol65 wrote:

>--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@...> wrote:
>
>
>>This concept doesn't seem to have a common word among the source
>>languages:
>>
>>EN plumber
>>NL loodgieter (literally "lead pourer")
>>DE Klempner
>>SV rörmokare, rörarbetare
>>DA blikkenslager
>>NO rørlegger
>>
>>The rör/rør in the Scandy words mean reed/pipe. I can't figure out
>>what a "mokare" does though.
>>
>>Probably some sort of self-explanitory compound will be the only
>>solution, I think
>>Here are some of my suggestions:
>>
>>pîparbêder (literally pipe-worker)
>>pîpmann (literally pipe-man)
>>pîpleger (literally pipe-layer)
>>
>>May, given the English and Dutch words, some sort of "lead"
>>association wouldn't be inappropriate.
>>
>>lödpîparbêder, lödpîpmann etc
>>
>>
>
>I don't think lead is appropriate either since nowadays we use
>copper or plastic.
>
>
>
OK.

>I also thought of pîpinstaller (pipe-installer)
>
>verbs - SV installera, NL installeren, DE installieren
>
>R
>
>
>
Looks good, but the agent-noun for "installere" should probably be
"installerer" or "installatör". I prefer "installatör" -- the Latinate
agent noun -- mainly because words ending in "-erer" are a bit of a
mouthful.

In the continental germlangs, most romance-borrowed verbs end in
-eren/-ieren/-ere/-era. But although these germlangs can grammatically
correctly form agent nouns by adding -er (or similar) to the verb stem,
more often, the agent noun is a borrowing from the latin agent noun. Eg
DE Akteur not *Agierer. SV Direktör not *dirigerare

As a matter of fact, "Installateur" in german can mean plumber (but not
specifically plumber, it can be used for other trades). DE Installateur
would be better translated as "fitter".

So "pîpinstallatör" is OK by me. At 5 syllables, a bit of a mouthful
though. Maybe "pîpleger" (3 sylls) is easier to say.

There is confusion in english about the meaning "pipe" but originally
this refers only to the mouth instrument, for smoking or whistling.
Also it is listed so in the uber wordbuk. That xls file however has
"tub" (tube, pipe) and "læding" (wire, leading, i.e. plumbing, tap).
the latter is found in DE leitung, DA leding. Also there is plumb n. =
lead, plumb, sinker, weight. For the second element "smidd", "werker",
"leger", "setter", "in-steller" (from verb stelle) or simply "mann"


--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@...> wrote:
>
> tungol65 wrote:
>
> >--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>This concept doesn't seem to have a common word among the source
> >>languages:
> >>
> >>EN plumber
> >>NL loodgieter (literally "lead pourer")
> >>DE Klempner
> >>SV rörmokare, rörarbetare
> >>DA blikkenslager
> >>NO rørlegger
> >>
> >>The rör/rør in the Scandy words mean reed/pipe. I can't figure out
> >>what a "mokare" does though.
> >>
> >>Probably some sort of self-explanitory compound will be the only
> >>solution, I think
> >>Here are some of my suggestions:
> >>
> >>pîparbêder (literally pipe-worker)
> >>pîpmann (literally pipe-man)
> >>pîpleger (literally pipe-layer)
> >>
> >>May, given the English and Dutch words, some sort of "lead"
> >>association wouldn't be inappropriate.
> >>
> >>lödpîparbêder, lödpîpmann etc
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I don't think lead is appropriate either since nowadays we use
> >copper or plastic.
> >
> >
> >
> OK.
>
> >I also thought of pîpinstaller (pipe-installer)
> >
> >verbs - SV installera, NL installeren, DE installieren
> >
> >R
> >
> >
> >
> Looks good, but the agent-noun for "installere" should probably be
> "installerer" or "installatör". I prefer "installatör" -- the Latinate
> agent noun -- mainly because words ending in "-erer" are a bit of a
> mouthful.
>
> In the continental germlangs, most romance-borrowed verbs end in
> -eren/-ieren/-ere/-era. But although these germlangs can grammatically
> correctly form agent nouns by adding -er (or similar) to the verb stem,
> more often, the agent noun is a borrowing from the latin agent noun. Eg
> DE Akteur not *Agierer. SV Direktör not *dirigerare
>
> As a matter of fact, "Installateur" in german can mean plumber (but not
> specifically plumber, it can be used for other trades). DE Installateur
> would be better translated as "fitter".
>
> So "pîpinstallatör" is OK by me. At 5 syllables, a bit of a mouthful
> though. Maybe "pîpleger" (3 sylls) is easier to say.
>

Right the FS word "pîp" should probably mean tobacco pipe or musical
instrument. And "lêding" has more than one meaning and doesn't
specifically mean pipe/tube.

So that leaves "tub" as the FS word for pipe/tube. So the first
element should be "tub" [tu:b].

For the second element, "smidd" would mean morelike someone who
creates the pipe, and "werker" probably has that implication too.

I don't really like "mann" since this means we will need a "tubfrau"
or "tubwîv" for female plumbers.

So "leger", "setter", "insteller, or "installatör" for the second
part. Not sure which I prefer...

--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@...> wrote:
>
> There is confusion in english about the meaning "pipe" but originally
> this refers only to the mouth instrument, for smoking or whistling.
> Also it is listed so in the uber wordbuk. That xls file however has
> "tub" (tube, pipe) and "læding" (wire, leading, i.e. plumbing, tap).
> the latter is found in DE leitung, DA leding. Also there is plumb n. =
> lead, plumb, sinker, weight. For the second element "smidd", "werker",
> "leger", "setter", "in-steller" (from verb stelle) or simply "mann"
>
>
> --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
> >
> > tungol65 wrote:
> >
> > >--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>This concept doesn't seem to have a common word among the source
> > >>languages:
> > >>
> > >>EN plumber
> > >>NL loodgieter (literally "lead pourer")
> > >>DE Klempner
> > >>SV rörmokare, rörarbetare
> > >>DA blikkenslager
> > >>NO rørlegger
> > >>
> > >>The rör/rør in the Scandy words mean reed/pipe. I can't figure out
> > >>what a "mokare" does though.
> > >>
> > >>Probably some sort of self-explanitory compound will be the only
> > >>solution, I think
> > >>Here are some of my suggestions:
> > >>
> > >>pîparbêder (literally pipe-worker)
> > >>pîpmann (literally pipe-man)
> > >>pîpleger (literally pipe-layer)
> > >>
> > >>May, given the English and Dutch words, some sort of "lead"
> > >>association wouldn't be inappropriate.
> > >>
> > >>lödpîparbêder, lödpîpmann etc
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >I don't think lead is appropriate either since nowadays we use
> > >copper or plastic.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > OK.
> >
> > >I also thought of pîpinstaller (pipe-installer)
> > >
> > >verbs - SV installera, NL installeren, DE installieren
> > >
> > >R
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Looks good, but the agent-noun for "installere" should probably be
> > "installerer" or "installatör". I prefer "installatör" -- the
Latinate
> > agent noun -- mainly because words ending in "-erer" are a bit of a
> > mouthful.
> >
> > In the continental germlangs, most romance-borrowed verbs end in
> > -eren/-ieren/-ere/-era. But although these germlangs can
grammatically
> > correctly form agent nouns by adding -er (or similar) to the verb
stem,
> > more often, the agent noun is a borrowing from the latin agent
noun. Eg
> > DE Akteur not *Agierer. SV Direktör not *dirigerare
> >
> > As a matter of fact, "Installateur" in german can mean plumber
(but not
> > specifically plumber, it can be used for other trades). DE
Installateur
> > would be better translated as "fitter".
> >
> > So "pîpinstallatör" is OK by me. At 5 syllables, a bit of a mouthful
> > though. Maybe "pîpleger" (3 sylls) is easier to say.
> >
>

LA camera is DE Kammer.

Germanic words (Protogermanic based words) are the most interesting
for me at the moment, therefore my list contains only two words
with "(LA)".

Greets from Italy,

Bye,
Stephan

--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@...> wrote:
>
> Interesting "timmermann". I had thought that the German cognate to
EN
> timber, (DE Zimmer), had completely semantically drifted from the
> meaning shared by the other germlangs (wood). But I guess DE
> Zimmermann preserves the older, original meaning of Zimmer.
>
> The meaning of "Zimmer" was so different from "timber" that I only
> recently saw the connection. Although I was too lazy to check on
it, I
> had always assumed that Zimmer was some sort of early Romance
> borrowing from Latin Camera. (whence chamber)
>
> --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "stefichjo" <sts@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone!
> >
> > I have updatet my Folksprak example texts on the Wikibook.
Please take
> > a look and tell me if you like it.
> >
> > http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak/_Beispiele
> >
> >
> > The orthography is based mostly on the examples given here (some
kind
> > of Uberlist):
> >
> >
http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak/_Referenzgrammatik/_Phonetik/
> >
> > I would appreciate your comments on this compilation, too.
> >
> >
> >
> > The rest of the Wikibook pages is up to date, too. :-)
> >
> > I'll be on vacations on monday, so have some nice holidays.
> >
> >
> > Bye,
> > Stephan
> >
>

--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@...> wrote:
>
> Right the FS word "pîp" should probably mean tobacco pipe or
musical
> instrument. And "lêding" has more than one meaning and doesn't
> specifically mean pipe/tube.
>
> So that leaves "tub" as the FS word for pipe/tube. So the first
> element should be "tub" [tu:b].
>
> For the second element, "smidd" would mean morelike someone who
> creates the pipe, and "werker" probably has that implication too.
>
> I don't really like "mann" since this means we will need
a "tubfrau"
> or "tubwîv" for female plumbers.
>
> So "leger", "setter", "insteller, or "installatör" for the second
> part. Not sure which I prefer...
>

I think in this case "ror" or similar should also be considered as a
valid FS word DE Röhre, SV rör, DN rør. "tub" IMHO should mean a
flexible item and "ror" a rigid item.

R

I agree that, "pip" (< pîp) should be a smoking / musical
instrument, whereas "led" (< lạð) should be the stem for "(to)
lead". ("tub" is Romance, so I would look for a Germanic word first.)
A Germanic suffix for "thing which does/is" is "-el" (apparently) as
in
German "huegel", English "hill". An artificial word "ledel" could be
interesting for "tube", or "leding".

About the question about "installer". Here we have a Romance word
again and I thought of two different ways of implementing it.
Either "installator" or "installerer". Cf:
http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak/_Entlehungen

But I would prefer a Germanic sollution again, which would be (fer)
leger.

In German a "Leitung" can be either for electricity or for water.
So, in order to be unambigious, I would try to say:

waterledingleger

That's quite long. Maybe "ledinger" could work, too?


The question if one should say "steller", "leger" or "seter" is
difficult... I don't know yet.

Bye,
Stephan

--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@...> wrote:
>
> Right the FS word "pîp" should probably mean tobacco pipe or
musical
> instrument. And "lêding" has more than one meaning and doesn't
> specifically mean pipe/tube.
>
> So that leaves "tub" as the FS word for pipe/tube. So the first
> element should be "tub" [tu:b].
>
> For the second element, "smidd" would mean morelike someone who
> creates the pipe, and "werker" probably has that implication too.
>
> I don't really like "mann" since this means we will need
a "tubfrau"
> or "tubwîv" for female plumbers.
>
> So "leger", "setter", "insteller, or "installatör" for the second
> part. Not sure which I prefer...
>
> --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@> wrote:
> >
> > There is confusion in english about the meaning "pipe" but
originally
> > this refers only to the mouth instrument, for smoking or
whistling.
> > Also it is listed so in the uber wordbuk. That xls file however
has
> > "tub" (tube, pipe) and "læding" (wire, leading, i.e. plumbing,
tap).
> > the latter is found in DE leitung, DA leding. Also there is plumb
	 n. =
> > lead, plumb, sinker, weight. For the second
element "smidd", "werker",
> > "leger", "setter", "in-steller" (from verb stelle) or
simply "mann"
> >
> >
> > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
> > >
> > > tungol65 wrote:
> > >
> > > >--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>This concept doesn't seem to have a common word among the
source
> > > >>languages:
> > > >>
> > > >>EN plumber
> > > >>NL loodgieter (literally "lead pourer")
> > > >>DE Klempner
> > > >>SV rörmokare, rörarbetare
> > > >>DA blikkenslager
> > > >>NO rørlegger
> > > >>
> > > >>The rör/rør in the Scandy words mean reed/pipe. I can't
figure out
> > > >>what a "mokare" does though.
> > > >>
> > > >>Probably some sort of self-explanitory compound will be the
only
> > > >>solution, I think
> > > >>Here are some of my suggestions:
> > > >>
> > > >>pîparbêder (literally pipe-worker)
> > > >>pîpmann (literally pipe-man)
> > > >>pîpleger (literally pipe-layer)
> > > >>
> > > >>May, given the English and Dutch words, some sort of "lead"
> > > >>association wouldn't be inappropriate.
> > > >>
> > > >>lödpîparbêder, lödpîpmann etc
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >I don't think lead is appropriate either since nowadays we
use
> > > >copper or plastic.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > OK.
> > >
> > > >I also thought of pîpinstaller (pipe-installer)
> > > >
> > > >verbs - SV installera, NL installeren, DE installieren
> > > >
> > > >R
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Looks good, but the agent-noun for "installere" should
probably be
> > > "installerer" or "installatör". I prefer "installatör" -- the
> Latinate
> > > agent noun -- mainly because words ending in "-erer" are a bit
of a
> > > mouthful.
> > >
> > > In the continental germlangs, most romance-borrowed verbs end
in
> > > -eren/-ieren/-ere/-era. But although these germlangs can
> grammatically
> > > correctly form agent nouns by adding -er (or similar) to the
verb
> stem,
> > > more often, the agent noun is a borrowing from the latin agent
> noun. Eg
> > > DE Akteur not *Agierer. SV Direktör not *dirigerare
> > >
> > > As a matter of fact, "Installateur" in german can mean plumber
> (but not
> > > specifically plumber, it can be used for other trades). DE
> Installateur
> > > would be better translated as "fitter".
> > >
> > > So "pîpinstallatör" is OK by me. At 5 syllables, a bit of a
mouthful
> > > though. Maybe "pîpleger" (3 sylls) is easier to say.
> > >
> >
>

I don't know, Germanic language speakers have been borrowing from their
more civilised Roman neighbours since well before Proto-Germanic split
up into the various dialects that led to the modern germlangs. Some very
german looking words in German are of Latin/Romance origin, such as
Fenster, Insel, Saal, Pfeife, Pforte, platt, Panzer, Preis, Pein,
Pflanze, pflügen, Küche, kurz, Nebel, Platz, Siegel, Münze, Wein.

stefichjo wrote:

>LA camera is DE Kammer.
>
>Germanic words (Protogermanic based words) are the most interesting
>for me at the moment, therefore my list contains only two words
>with "(LA)".
>
>Greets from Italy,
>
>Bye,
>Stephan
>
>--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@...> wrote:
>
>
>>Interesting "timmermann". I had thought that the German cognate to
>>
>>
>EN
>
>
>>timber, (DE Zimmer), had completely semantically drifted from the
>>meaning shared by the other germlangs (wood). But I guess DE
>>Zimmermann preserves the older, original meaning of Zimmer.
>>
>>The meaning of "Zimmer" was so different from "timber" that I only
>>recently saw the connection. Although I was too lazy to check on
>>
>>
>it, I
>
>
>>had always assumed that Zimmer was some sort of early Romance
>>borrowing from Latin Camera. (whence chamber)
>>
>>--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "stefichjo" <sts@> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hello everyone!
>>>
>>>I have updatet my Folksprak example texts on the Wikibook.
>>>
>>>
>Please take
>
>
>>>a look and tell me if you like it.
>>>
>>>http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak/_Beispiele
>>>
>>>
>>>The orthography is based mostly on the examples given here (some
>>>
>>>
>kind
>
>
>>>of Uberlist):
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak/_Referenzgrammatik/_Phonetik/
>
>
>>>I would appreciate your comments on this compilation, too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>The rest of the Wikibook pages is up to date, too. :-)
>>>
>>>I'll be on vacations on monday, so have some nice holidays.
>>>
>>>
>>>Bye,
>>>Stephan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Browse the draft word lists!
>http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
>http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
>
>Browse Folkspraak-related links!
>http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

In German there is "Rohr", meaning "tube". Yes, we should consider
it.

rorwerker
rorleger
rorarbeder

Bye,
Stephan

--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "tungol65" <rdw.young@...> wrote:
>
> --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@> wrote:
> >
> > Right the FS word "pîp" should probably mean tobacco pipe or
> musical
> > instrument. And "lêding" has more than one meaning and doesn't
> > specifically mean pipe/tube.
> >
> > So that leaves "tub" as the FS word for pipe/tube. So the first
> > element should be "tub" [tu:b].
> >
> > For the second element, "smidd" would mean morelike someone who
> > creates the pipe, and "werker" probably has that implication too.
> >
> > I don't really like "mann" since this means we will need
> a "tubfrau"
> > or "tubwîv" for female plumbers.
> >
> > So "leger", "setter", "insteller, or "installatör" for the second
> > part. Not sure which I prefer...
> >
>
> I think in this case "ror" or similar should also be considered as
a
> valid FS word DE Röhre, SV rör, DN rør. "tub" IMHO should mean a
> flexible item and "ror" a rigid item.
>
> R
>

If you want a native germanic word for "installeren", then "instelle"
seems to work, and have the advantage of looking very very similar to
its Romance counterpart.. (somewhat like the convenient similarity
between DE Einfluß and EN Influence.)

I don't like "installerer" because it is hard to pronounce easily. Too
many flapping Rs.

stefichjo wrote:

>I agree that, "pip" (< pîp) should be a smoking / musical
>instrument, whereas "led" (< lạð) should be the stem for "(to)
>lead". ("tub" is Romance, so I would look for a Germanic word first.)
>A Germanic suffix for "thing which does/is" is "-el" (apparently) as
>in
>German "huegel", English "hill". An artificial word "ledel" could be
>interesting for "tube", or "leding".
>
>About the question about "installer". Here we have a Romance word
>again and I thought of two different ways of implementing it.
>Either "installator" or "installerer". Cf:
>http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak/_Entlehungen
>
>But I would prefer a Germanic sollution again, which would be (fer)
>leger.
>
>In German a "Leitung" can be either for electricity or for water.
>So, in order to be unambigious, I would try to say:
>
>waterledingleger
>
>That's quite long. Maybe "ledinger" could work, too?
>
>
>The question if one should say "steller", "leger" or "seter" is
>difficult... I don't know yet.
>
>Bye,
>Stephan
>
>--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@...> wrote:
>
>
>>Right the FS word "pîp" should probably mean tobacco pipe or
>>
>>
>musical
>
>
>>instrument. And "lêding" has more than one meaning and doesn't
>>specifically mean pipe/tube.
>>
>>So that leaves "tub" as the FS word for pipe/tube. So the first
>>element should be "tub" [tu:b].
>>
>>For the second element, "smidd" would mean morelike someone who
>>creates the pipe, and "werker" probably has that implication too.
>>
>>I don't really like "mann" since this means we will need
>>
>>
>a "tubfrau"
>
>
>>or "tubwîv" for female plumbers.
>>
>>So "leger", "setter", "insteller, or "installatör" for the second
>>part. Not sure which I prefer...
>>
>>--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>There is confusion in english about the meaning "pipe" but
>>>
>>>
>originally
>
>
>>>this refers only to the mouth instrument, for smoking or
>>>
>>>
>whistling.
>
>
>>>Also it is listed so in the uber wordbuk. That xls file however
>>>
>>>
>has
>
>
>>>"tub" (tube, pipe) and "læding" (wire, leading, i.e. plumbing,
>>>
>>>
>tap).
>
>
>>>the latter is found in DE leitung, DA leding. Also there is plumb
>>>
>>>
> n. =
>
>
>>>lead, plumb, sinker, weight. For the second
>>>
>>>
>element "smidd", "werker",
>
>
>>>"leger", "setter", "in-steller" (from verb stelle) or
>>>
>>>
>simply "mann"
>
>
>>>--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>tungol65 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>wrote:
>
>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>This concept doesn't seem to have a common word among the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>source
>
>
>>>>>>languages:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>EN plumber
>>>>>>NL loodgieter (literally "lead pourer")
>>>>>>DE Klempner
>>>>>>SV rörmokare, rörarbetare
>>>>>>DA blikkenslager
>>>>>>NO rørlegger
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The rör/rør in the Scandy words mean reed/pipe. I can't
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>figure out
>
>
>>>>>>what a "mokare" does though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Probably some sort of self-explanitory compound will be the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>only
>
>
>>>>>>solution, I think
>>>>>>Here are some of my suggestions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>pîparbêder (literally pipe-worker)
>>>>>>pîpmann (literally pipe-man)
>>>>>>pîpleger (literally pipe-layer)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>May, given the English and Dutch words, some sort of "lead"
>>>>>>association wouldn't be inappropriate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>lödpîparbêder, lödpîpmann etc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>I don't think lead is appropriate either since nowadays we
>>>>>
>>>>>
>use
>
>
>>>>>copper or plastic.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>OK.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I also thought of pîpinstaller (pipe-installer)
>>>>>
>>>>>verbs - SV installera, NL installeren, DE installieren
>>>>>
>>>>>R
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Looks good, but the agent-noun for "installere" should
>>>>
>>>>
>probably be
>
>
>>>>"installerer" or "installatör". I prefer "installatör" -- the
>>>>
>>>>
>>Latinate
>>
>>
>>>>agent noun -- mainly because words ending in "-erer" are a bit
>>>>
>>>>
>of a
>
>
>>>>mouthful.
>>>>
>>>>In the continental germlangs, most romance-borrowed verbs end
>>>>
>>>>
>in
>
>
>>>>-eren/-ieren/-ere/-era. But although these germlangs can
>>>>
>>>>
>>grammatically
>>
>>
>>>>correctly form agent nouns by adding -er (or similar) to the
>>>>
>>>>
>verb
>
>
>>stem,
>>
>>
>>>>more often, the agent noun is a borrowing from the latin agent
>>>>
>>>>
>>noun. Eg
>>
>>
>>>>DE Akteur not *Agierer. SV Direktör not *dirigerare
>>>>
>>>>As a matter of fact, "Installateur" in german can mean plumber
>>>>
>>>>
>>(but not
>>
>>
>>>>specifically plumber, it can be used for other trades). DE
>>>>
>>>>
>>Installateur
>>
>>
>>>>would be better translated as "fitter".
>>>>
>>>>So "pîpinstallatör" is OK by me. At 5 syllables, a bit of a
>>>>
>>>>
>mouthful
>
>
>>>>though. Maybe "pîpleger" (3 sylls) is easier to say.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Browse the draft word lists!
>http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
>http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
>
>Browse Folkspraak-related links!
>http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

In fact, I think DE "Kammer" is from LA "camer-a", which is from
GR "kamar-a", which is from IE "kam-" (as I found out on Etymonline
now).

But DE "Saal" is from PG "sal-az", and also DE "Wein", EN "wine" is
from PG "win-am" (but one could also say it's from LA "vin-um", of
course).

Bye,
Stephan




--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@...> wrote:
>
> I don't know, Germanic language speakers have been borrowing from
their
> more civilised Roman neighbours since well before Proto-Germanic
split
> up into the various dialects that led to the modern germlangs.
Some very
> german looking words in German are of Latin/Romance origin, such
as
> Fenster, Insel, Saal, Pfeife, Pforte, platt, Panzer, Preis, Pein,
> Pflanze, pflügen, Küche, kurz, Nebel, Platz, Siegel, Münze, Wein.
>
> stefichjo wrote:
>
> >LA camera is DE Kammer.
> >
> >Germanic words (Protogermanic based words) are the most
interesting
> >for me at the moment, therefore my list contains only two words
> >with "(LA)".
> >
> >Greets from Italy,
> >
> >Bye,
> >Stephan
> >
> >--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Interesting "timmermann". I had thought that the German cognate
to
> >>
> >>
> >EN
> >
> >
> >>timber, (DE Zimmer), had completely semantically drifted from the
> >>meaning shared by the other germlangs (wood). But I guess DE
> >>Zimmermann preserves the older, original meaning of Zimmer.
> >>
> >>The meaning of "Zimmer" was so different from "timber" that I
only
> >>recently saw the connection. Although I was too lazy to check on
> >>
> >>
> >it, I
> >
> >
> >>had always assumed that Zimmer was some sort of early Romance
> >>borrowing from Latin Camera. (whence chamber)
> >>
> >>--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "stefichjo" <sts@> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hello everyone!
> >>>
> >>>I have updatet my Folksprak example texts on the Wikibook.
> >>>
> >>>
> >Please take
> >
> >
> >>>a look and tell me if you like it.
> >>>
> >>>http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak/_Beispiele
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The orthography is based mostly on the examples given here
(some
> >>>
> >>>
> >kind
> >
> >
> >>>of Uberlist):
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>
>http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak/_Referenzgrammatik/_Phonetik/
> >
> >
> >>>I would appreciate your comments on this compilation, too.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The rest of the Wikibook pages is up to date, too. :-)
> >>>
> >>>I'll be on vacations on monday, so have some nice holidays.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Bye,
> >>>Stephan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Browse the draft word lists!
> >http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
> >http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
> >
> >Browse Folkspraak-related links!
> >http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Combining primitive words like stelle, lege, sete with primitive
prefixes (from primitive particles) I imagine very controversial,
since they might mean many different things, and in fact they do
among the Germlangs. For example, "die Arbeit einstellen" means "to
stop working"

Bye,
Stephan

--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@...> wrote:
>
> If you want a native germanic word for "installeren",
then "instelle"
> seems to work, and have the advantage of looking very very similar
to
> its Romance counterpart.. (somewhat like the convenient similarity
> between DE Einfluß and EN Influence.)
>
> I don't like "installerer" because it is hard to pronounce easily.
Too
> many flapping Rs.
>
> stefichjo wrote:
>
> >I agree that, "pip" (< pîp) should be a smoking / musical
> >instrument, whereas "led" (< lạð) should be the stem
for "(to)
> >lead". ("tub" is Romance, so I would look for a Germanic word
first.)
> >A Germanic suffix for "thing which does/is" is "-el" (apparently)
as
> >in
> >German "huegel", English "hill". An artificial word "ledel" could
be
> >interesting for "tube", or "leding".
> >
> >About the question about "installer". Here we have a Romance word
> >again and I thought of two different ways of implementing it.
> >Either "installator" or "installerer". Cf:
> >http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak/_Entlehungen
> >
> >But I would prefer a Germanic sollution again, which would be
(fer)
> >leger.
> >
> >In German a "Leitung" can be either for electricity or for water.
> >So, in order to be unambigious, I would try to say:
> >
> >waterledingleger
> >
> >That's quite long. Maybe "ledinger" could work, too?
> >
> >
> >The question if one should say "steller", "leger" or "seter" is
> >difficult... I don't know yet.
> >
> >Bye,
> >Stephan
> >
> >--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Right the FS word "pîp" should probably mean tobacco pipe or
> >>
> >>
> >musical
> >
> >
> >>instrument. And "lêding" has more than one meaning and doesn't
> >>specifically mean pipe/tube.
> >>
> >>So that leaves "tub" as the FS word for pipe/tube. So the first
> >>element should be "tub" [tu:b].
> >>
> >>For the second element, "smidd" would mean morelike someone who
> >>creates the pipe, and "werker" probably has that implication too.
> >>
> >>I don't really like "mann" since this means we will need
> >>
> >>
> >a "tubfrau"
> >
> >
> >>or "tubwîv" for female plumbers.
> >>
> >>So "leger", "setter", "insteller, or "installatör" for the second
> >>part. Not sure which I prefer...
> >>
> >>--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans@> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>There is confusion in english about the meaning "pipe" but
> >>>
> >>>
> >originally
> >
> >
> >>>this refers only to the mouth instrument, for smoking or
> >>>
> >>>
> >whistling.
> >
> >
> >>>Also it is listed so in the uber wordbuk. That xls file however
> >>>
> >>>
> >has
> >
> >
> >>>"tub" (tube, pipe) and "læding" (wire, leading, i.e. plumbing,
> >>>
> >>>
> >tap).
> >
> >
> >>>the latter is found in DE leitung, DA leding. Also there is
plumb
> >>>
> >>>
> > n. =
> >
> >
> >>>lead, plumb, sinker, weight. For the second
> >>>
> >>>
> >element "smidd", "werker",
> >
> >
> >>>"leger", "setter", "in-steller" (from verb stelle) or
> >>>
> >>>
> >simply "mann"
> >
> >
> >>>--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>tungol65 wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>This concept doesn't seem to have a common word among the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >source
> >
> >
> >>>>>>languages:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>EN plumber
> >>>>>>NL loodgieter (literally "lead pourer")
> >>>>>>DE Klempner
> >>>>>>SV rörmokare, rörarbetare
> >>>>>>DA blikkenslager
> >>>>>>NO rørlegger
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The rör/rør in the Scandy words mean reed/pipe. I can't
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >figure out
> >
> >
> >>>>>>what a "mokare" does though.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Probably some sort of self-explanitory compound will be the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >only
> >
> >
> >>>>>>solution, I think
> >>>>>>Here are some of my suggestions:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>pîparbêder (literally pipe-worker)
> >>>>>>pîpmann (literally pipe-man)
> >>>>>>pîpleger (literally pipe-layer)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>May, given the English and Dutch words, some sort of "lead"
> >>>>>>association wouldn't be inappropriate.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>lödpîparbêder, lödpîpmann etc
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>I don't think lead is appropriate either since nowadays we
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >use
> >
> >
> >>>>>copper or plastic.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>OK.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>I also thought of pîpinstaller (pipe-installer)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>verbs - SV installera, NL installeren, DE installieren
> >>>>>
> >>>>>R
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>Looks good, but the agent-noun for "installere" should
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >probably be
> >
> >
> >>>>"installerer" or "installatör". I prefer "installatör" -- the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>Latinate
> >>
> >>
> >>>>agent noun -- mainly because words ending in "-erer" are a bit
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >of a
> >
> >
> >>>>mouthful.
> >>>>
> >>>>In the continental germlangs, most romance-borrowed verbs end
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >in
> >
> >
> >>>>-eren/-ieren/-ere/-era. But although these germlangs can
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>grammatically
> >>
> >>
> >>>>correctly form agent nouns by adding -er (or similar) to the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >verb
> >
> >
> >>stem,
> >>
> >>
> >>>>more often, the agent noun is a borrowing from the latin agent
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>noun. Eg
> >>
> >>
> >>>>DE Akteur not *Agierer. SV Direktör not *dirigerare
> >>>>
> >>>>As a matter of fact, "Installateur" in german can mean plumber
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>(but not
> >>
> >>
> >>>>specifically plumber, it can be used for other trades). DE
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>Installateur
> >>
> >>
> >>>>would be better translated as "fitter".
> >>>>
> >>>>So "pîpinstallatör" is OK by me. At 5 syllables, a bit of a
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >mouthful
> >
> >
> >>>>though. Maybe "pîpleger" (3 sylls) is easier to say.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Browse the draft word lists!
> >http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
> >http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
> >
> >Browse Folkspraak-related links!
> >http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Hmmm. Nothing like Rohr/rör/rør is present in English or Dutch.

But what about using something akin to reed/ried/Ried?


stefichjo wrote:

>In German there is "Rohr", meaning "tube". Yes, we should consider
>it.
>
>rorwerker
>rorleger
>rorarbeder
>
>Bye,
>Stephan
>
>--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "tungol65" <rdw.young@...> wrote:
>
>
>>--- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Right the FS word "pîp" should probably mean tobacco pipe or
>>>
>>>
>>musical
>>
>>
>>>instrument. And "lêding" has more than one meaning and doesn't
>>>specifically mean pipe/tube.
>>>
>>>So that leaves "tub" as the FS word for pipe/tube. So the first
>>>element should be "tub" [tu:b].
>>>
>>>For the second element, "smidd" would mean morelike someone who
>>>creates the pipe, and "werker" probably has that implication too.
>>>
>>>I don't really like "mann" since this means we will need
>>>
>>>
>>a "tubfrau"
>>
>>
>>>or "tubwîv" for female plumbers.
>>>
>>>So "leger", "setter", "insteller, or "installatör" for the second
>>>part. Not sure which I prefer...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I think in this case "ror" or similar should also be considered as
>>
>>
>a
>
>
>>valid FS word DE Röhre, SV rör, DN rør. "tub" IMHO should mean a
>>flexible item and "ror" a rigid item.
>>
>>R
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Browse the draft word lists!
>http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
>http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
>
>Browse Folkspraak-related links!
>http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>