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Hackers, Crackers, and the law   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #111 of 148 |
Re: [fors-discuss] Hackers, Crackers, and the law

merlyn@... (Randal L. Schwartz) wrote:
> Going back to a parallel... if I wander by an open doorway that I
> think should ahve been locked, am I permitted to call the supervisor
> without being arrested for trespassing?

The logical extension to this analogy is that having noticed the door is
open, we step just inside the room to have a quick look - to see whether
the rightful occupant is in the room, or whether there's signs of anything
wrong, etc. At this point one of two scenarios happen.
First, someone appears out of nowhere and spots us in the room. Suitably
embarassed, we try to explain what we're doing. Depending on our stature,
we either get thanks, or arrested for attempted theft.

The second scenario is that after having had a quick scan of the office to
ensure everything is ok, we report it (mentioning the fact that we looked
inside), and again get thanked for our trouble or arrested.

The problem is that few people can resist the urge to 'have a quick look',
be it computers or corridors, and as soon as we do, we leave ourselves
reliant on colleagues/employers/juries making a value judgement about our
*intentions* rather than our actions.

And as we all know, 9 times out of 10 our colleagues say "thanks for
checking my office", and 9 times out of 10 they say "he's running crack
- call the police!". For some reason 'hacking' invariably receives the
worst of all possible interpretations. :-(

[ Oh no - fors-discuss is heading for another analogy-fest ;-) ]

* Dave Mitchell, Senior Technical Consultant
* Fretwell-Downing Informatics Ltd, UK. Dave.Mitchell@...
* Tel: +44 114 281 6113. The usual disclaimers....
*
* Standards (n). Battle insignia or tribal totems

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Thu Aug 30, 2001 3:54 pm

davem@...
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Message #111 of 148 |
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... But it's hard to explain technical issues (by definition), and it's especially difficult to explain them to legislators, prosecutors, judges, and juries....
Tom Phoenix
rootbeer+fors-d@...
Send Email
Aug 29, 2001
8:24 pm

] On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Dave Sill wrote: ] ] > jasons@... wrote: ] > ] > >... We need a way to help the legal system show leniency when people ] > >were...
David Keegel
djk@...
Send Email
Aug 30, 2001
12:16 am

... I agree. But it won't be easy to accomplish, since I'm sure that most legislators (judges, juries, reporters, columnists, employers) think that "breaking...
Tom Phoenix
rootbeer+fors-d@...
Send Email
Aug 30, 2001
2:42 pm

... Tom> I agree. But it won't be easy to accomplish, since I'm sure that most Tom> legislators (judges, juries, reporters, columnists, employers) think that ...
merlyn@...
Send Email
Aug 30, 2001
3:21 pm

... Tom> I agree. But it won't be easy to accomplish, since I'm sure that most Tom> legislators (judges, juries, reporters, columnists, employers) think that ...
Frossie
frossie@...
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Aug 30, 2001
7:11 pm

... Agreed. As Randall argued in his trial, our computers (as agents of our bidding) access and modify the content of computers owned by other organizations...
jasons@...
Send Email
Aug 30, 2001
7:59 pm

] On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, David Keegel wrote: ] ] > getting legislators to focus more on intent (eg: requiring clear ] > mal-intent for computer crime offenses)...
David Keegel
djk@...
Send Email
Aug 31, 2001
1:51 am

... The logical extension to this analogy is that having noticed the door is open, we step just inside the room to have a quick look - to see whether the...
Dave Mitchell
davem@...
Send Email
Aug 30, 2001
3:56 pm

... Or "to look if indeed this is the room we thought should be locked". A couple of guys here in NL noticed a window to the bank open at night when they were...
R.E.Wolff@...
Send Email
Aug 30, 2001
4:26 pm

... OK ... OK ... Oops. Not OK. It's not legal, and even if they have the best intentions, it's not safe. Suppose someone sees them enter and calls the cops?...
Dave Sill
de5-fors-discuss@...
Send Email
Aug 30, 2001
5:22 pm

... In that case, the bank's story IS: You only get access to the toilet, and if you'd be able to get out of that toilet, you wouldn't get access to anything...
R.E.Wolff@...
Send Email
Aug 30, 2001
10:49 pm

* Dave Mitchell ... In the recent case the looking-around was made more problematic IMHO because the person took some photocopies of the papers on the table in...
Ralf Fassel
ralf@...
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Aug 30, 2001
4:29 pm

... Correct, but what was of equal significance, we felt, was the apparent truth that the application of statutes which are grounded in ancient real property ...
larryo@...
Send Email
Sep 3, 2001
9:05 pm

(I'm not a lawyer.) ] Sysadmins do things every day that, if their employer decides at a later ] time any one of which was "unauthorized," subject them to...
David Keegel
djk@...
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Sep 4, 2001
12:20 am

... David> In that case, if you could show that you didn't realise at the time David> that the act was "without authorization" (because you had implicit David>...
merlyn@...
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Sep 4, 2001
12:36 am

... One of the "problems" with your trial is that you should've said "NO" to the question: "Was this for personal gain?" . The way you answered that question...
R.E.Wolff@...
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Sep 4, 2001
5:35 pm

... R> One of the "problems" with your trial is that you should've said "NO" R> to the question: "Was this for personal gain?" . R> The way you answered that...
merlyn@...
Send Email
Sep 4, 2001
6:03 pm

... That you could, if it were not for ORS 161.115(1), which provides in part: (1) If a statute defining an offense prescribes a culpable mental state but does...
larryo@...
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Sep 7, 2001
10:31 pm
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